Abe Mitchell and Ben Hogan

[6enh09an]

[quote name='drmikeaz' timestamp='1301672899' post='3109523']
[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1301607925' post='3106959']
[quote name='drmikeaz' timestamp='1301605102' post='3106802']
[quote name='ballhack' timestamp='1270837951' post='2370189']
Can anyone that has the ability digitize " Down to Scratch" and "Length on the links"? I have the capability but not the books to do it and they are extremly hard to find it seems.


[/quote]

You should be able to download DTS from the following link:
[url="http://www.filedropper.com/totaldts"]http://www.filedropper.com/totaldts[/url]
Good luck.
drmikeaz.
[/quote]

IMO a must read for Hogan fans - the "wind up of the arms"! brilliant...

Chris
[/quote]

Apologies to all. I have deleted the reference with the above link because it is not working. However I do have the entire DTS in PDF document . It is 80.2 MB so I need a reliable way to make it available to those interested. Suggestions ?

Trying to help !!
drmikeaz
[/quote]

Dmikeaz, email it to me phleaeaeaease! [email protected]

Chris, look at the takeaway/chip lesson, thats exactly what Hogan does imho.

[drmikeaz]

Hello again 6enh09an,

Try this link to download the PDF of DTS.

[url="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17116399/TotalDTS.pdf"]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17116399/TotalDTS.pdf[/url]

This should work for any member who would like to get a copy of this out of print work.

drmikeaz.

[Eagletau]

[quote name='drmikeaz' timestamp='1301688032' post='3110285']
Hello again 6enh09an,

Try this link to download the PDF of DTS.

[url="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17116399/TotalDTS.pdf"]http://dl.dropbox.co...99/TotalDTS.pdf[/url]

This should work for any member who would like to get a copy of this out of print work. You are a gentleman & a scholar.



drmikeaz.


[/quote]

Many, many thanks for this sublime work.

Eagletau

[michaelgb888]

[quote name='Eagletau' timestamp='1302086298' post='3125138']
[quote name='drmikeaz' timestamp='1301688032' post='3110285']
Hello again 6enh09an,

Try this link to download the PDF of DTS.

[url="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17116399/TotalDTS.pdf"]http://dl.dropbox.co...99/TotalDTS.pdf[/url]

This should work for any member who would like to get a copy of this out of print work. You are a gentleman & a scholar.



drmikeaz.


[/quote]

Many, many thanks for this sublime work.

Eagletau
[/quote]

Were you able to download it? Cant do it. After a while, it says file damaged. Any suggestions?

[drmikeaz]

[quote name='michaelgb888' timestamp='1302097430' post='3125424']
[quote name='Eagletau' timestamp='1302086298' post='3125138']
[quote name='drmikeaz' timestamp='1301688032' post='3110285']
Hello again 6enh09an,

Try this link to download the PDF of DTS.

[url="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17116399/TotalDTS.pdf"]http://dl.dropbox.co...99/TotalDTS.pdf[/url]

This should work for any member who would like to get a copy of this out of print work. You are a gentleman & a scholar.



drmikeaz.


[/quote]

Many, many thanks for this sublime work.

Eagletau
[/quote]

Were you able to download it? Cant do it. After a while, it says file damaged. Any suggestions?
[/quote]


Suggest try again it worked for me on a test run.
Good luck.

Drmikeaz.

[chris_golf]

[quote name='drmikeaz' timestamp='1302130454' post='3127101']

Suggest try again it worked for me on a test run.
Good luck.

Drmikeaz.
[/quote]

I had as well no probs with downloading it... thank you again.

Chris

[6enh09an]

Drmikeaz,

Thank you very much for the downloadable file. Very sublime indeed!

Sincerely,
6enh09an

[canduff]

Many thanks to you drmikeeaz well done

[dalefuller]

One thing that we all should remember when reacting with amazement at drives going 300 yards *back in the day* is that there was no irrigation and when playing particularly clay-based surfaces, it would be similar to roll-outs on the firmest courses you have ever played. I was introed to this fact when the starter at The Homestead/Lower Course told me before teeing off that Sam Snead used to routinely drive the 1st hole. After hitting a fairly good tee shot, I had about 85 left in. SMH, I called BS on the starter story. When I finished, I let him know where my drive ended and that I found it hard to believe Snead could hit it that far by my ball (did they move the green?, the tee?) He chuckled and told me...*you have to remember that there was no irrigation*.

[dukeman]

You're absolutely correct. I had the good fortune to have dinner with Sam once. Among other things, he mentioned that he thought the greatest invention in the history of golf was water! He also was very grateful for advances in club and ball technology. He said that he would not be able to hit a drive 225 yds with 1940's era clubs and balls on today's heavily watered, densely grassed fairways.

[quote name='dalefuller' timestamp='1316806071' post='3585856']
One thing that we all should remember when reacting with amazement at drives going 300 yards *back in the day* is that there was no irrigation and when playing particularly clay-based surfaces, it would be similar to roll-outs on the firmest courses you have ever played. I was introed to this fact when the starter at The Homestead/Lower Course told me before teeing off that Sam Snead used to routinely drive the 1st hole. After hitting a fairly good tee shot, I had about 85 left in. SMH, I called BS on the starter story. When I finished, I let him know where my drive ended and that I found it hard to believe Snead could hit it that far by my ball (did they move the green?, the tee?) He chuckled and told me...*you have to remember that there was no irrigation*.
[/quote]

[mcctee]

I have a bit of a Ben Hogan Mystique mystery. For the past couple of months I have been trying to find out the name of the film that these Ben Hogan images came from. Specifically looking for the name of the film, date shot, who currently owns the copyright, the location, etc. Details and more details. I took a couple of stills and many of you will find the second still shot from down the line view familiar from YouTube but the other first one is nowhere to be found. Can anyone solve this Hogan Mystery?

Thanks.

[attachment=869149:463HereisHoganAugusta.jpg]

[attachment=869151:000NOTICEBLACKCAP.jpg]

[alexz]

Thanks for the PDF. Very interesting book !

 

 

Abe promotes a closing face waggle, ... the use/elasticity of the muscles will be completely different than the opening face waggle from Hogan. The opposite for me.

Abe looks like the Martinez power move.

[svsvincenzo]

Thanks for the PDF. Very interesting book !

 

 

Abe promotes a closing face waggle, ... the use/elasticity of the muscles will be completely different than the opening face waggle from Hogan. The opposite for me.

Abe looks like the Martinez power move.

 

Sounds familiar...yes, Hogan is exactly the opposite of the Abe/Martinez seizure move...Abe/Martinez move including the takeaway necessary for them to prevent over rotation of the clubhead and avoid hitting your a55 in the BS...

[alexz]

With the Joe Dante backward wrist break

 

we have 3 waggles :

- cupped right wrist and back of left hand facing the ground for Dante

- cupped right wrist and back of left hand facing the sky for Hogan

- cupped left wrist and back of left hand facing the ball for Abe/Martinez

 

Is it right ? Other effective waggle ?

[downtoscratch]

Thanks for the PDF. Very interesting book !

 

 

Abe promotes a closing face waggle, ... the use/elasticity of the muscles will be completely different than the opening face waggle from Hogan. The opposite for me.

Abe looks like the Martinez power move.

 

Sounds familiar...yes, Hogan is exactly the opposite of the Abe/Martinez seizure move...Abe/Martinez move including the takeaway necessary for them to prevent over rotation of the clubhead and avoid hitting your a55 in the BS...

 

Interesting view on Hogan vs Mitchell/Martinez.......... wrong but interesting nonetheless.

[svsvincenzo]

Thanks for the PDF. Very interesting book !

 

 

Abe promotes a closing face waggle, ... the use/elasticity of the muscles will be completely different than the opening face waggle from Hogan. The opposite for me.

Abe looks like the Martinez power move.

 

Sounds familiar...yes, Hogan is exactly the opposite of the Abe/Martinez seizure move...Abe/Martinez move including the takeaway necessary for them to prevent over rotation of the clubhead and avoid hitting your a55 in the BS...

 

Interesting view on Hogan vs Mitchell/Martinez.......... wrong but interesting nonetheless.

 

Hogan hasn't moved his hands much, and remember he has very mid-body hands, do that's very little hands travel. Also, Hogan has hs hands lower and nearer his body/pelvis, so from his setup hands position to top of BS, his hands path will be more parallel to targetline and mre upwards earlier. That makes it look like LCT.

 

An is exactly the opposite at setup in respect of hands position. So this makes their takeaway actually a whole lot different if you look at it in real life/3D perspective.

 

Hogn has opened the face already with his L hand. The L hnd is turned already. Abe is preventing opening f face and turning of L hand. With his setup and the hickory shafts, this is a necessity, otherwise he will immediately fling the clubhead way too low and inside, with the hickory shaft, the clubhead will be left so behind his a55 that if he transition with his hips there's no way for him to close the face except stop his pivot to let the clubhead catch up. That's why he doesn't transition with the hips and wants the weight/pressure to remain on R foot in transition/DS as long as possible. Far from Hogan IMO.

[downtoscratch]

I'm reminded of a quote............ something about "the forest for the trees". I'll accept that you can't see what I see and vice versa. dts

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='downtoscratch' timestamp='1333040733' post='4606597']
I'm reminded of a quote............ something about "the forest for the trees". I'll accept that you can't see what I see and vice versa. dts
[/quote]

Nope. I see what you're seeing DTS. in fact have tried playing that way for almost a year. IMO, it's just a compensation for over-rotating the hands, club, and clubface. You're missing just one aspect of Hogan, so your hands, club and clubface over-rotates. So you prevent it with LCT, pronating or rolling the R wrist CCW and closing the face. Hogan said and did exactly the opposite. In other words, Hogan is really opening the face as early and as far as possibly could, but it doesn't over-rotate too much to the inside and hit his a55. Why?

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1333164324' post='4617405']

Hogan is really opening the face as early and as far as possibly could, but it doesn't over-rotate too much to the inside and hit his a55. Why?
[/quote]

Because he uses enough arm lift to the plane the clubhead. He's only adjusting the face angle.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1333216701' post='4619599']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1333164324' post='4617405']

Hogan is really opening the face as early and as far as possibly could, but it doesn't over-rotate too much to the inside and hit his a55. Why?
[/quote]

Because he uses enough arm lift to the plane the clubhead. He's only adjusting the face angle.
[/quote]

Even if you have arm lift (not with the arms nor hands by the way...), you can still overrotate your L arm/frearm/hand and hence the clubhead.

[downtoscratch]

101, Yeah, sounds familiar alright.......... I looked up your profile and I saw your list of friends. I'm out. You carry on though as it must bring you great joy.

"Sounds familiar...yes, Hogan is exactly the opposite of the Abe/Martinez seizure move...Abe/Martinez move including the takeaway necessary for them to prevent over rotation of the clubhead and avoid hitting your a55 in the BS"...

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='downtoscratch' timestamp='1333283063' post='4623401']
101, Yeah, sounds familiar alright.......... I looked up your profile and I saw your list of friends. I'm out. You carry on though as it must bring you great joy.

"Sounds familiar...yes, Hogan is exactly the opposite of the Abe/Martinez seizure move...Abe/Martinez move including the takeaway necessary for them to prevent over rotation of the clubhead and avoid hitting your a55 in the BS"...
[/quote]

No. To be able to convince you you've been looking at Hogan exactly the opposite way (which many read all over the world and try out) will make me truly happy. Don't you think what you're saying is exactly the opposite of what Hogan is saying?

[ej002]

101 - there is no use. Dts won't agree with you on this one. Save your breath. The glaring difference is how jacked up Abe's right elbow is. Sequence is f'd up from the word go. Cheers that we agree on something

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1333408877' post='4633573']
101 - there is no use. Dts won't agree with you on this one. Save your breath. The glaring difference is how jacked up Abe's right elbow is. Sequence is f'd up from the word go. Cheers that we agree on something
[/quote]

Yeah, cheers on that. I was hoping Jerry would not put up Abe's pictures and say its Hogan. Abe's words though in the DTS book and some newer pictures in there I can agree with some slight modifications. Still wondering how Abe's picture sequence can be so different than what he's saying in hs DTS book and a few pictures in there. Abe got a swing change, i guess, and Jerry's using the discarded swing. I believe the picture sequence is from Essentials of Golf, which is much older than Down to Scratch (DTS).

[downtoscratch]

"Martinez having a conniption fit"
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajLEtxg1Qy0&context=C40d4335ADvjVQa1PpcFN8dihutLSFWoVoZMxVqfm-FczKMkoAB8w="]http://www.youtube.c...fm-FczKMkoAB8w=[/url]

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[svsvincenzo]

Not Hogan. Good golfer, yes, but ain't Hogan.

[downtoscratch]

"Not Hogan. Good golfer, yes, but ain't Hogan"................. and who is, you, or your marvelous mystery man 8?? Can't see either of you from here. Why is that? Never said Mitchell was Hogan either just that they did something alike..... not cloning.
That you can't see that is of no consequence to me so go on with your snide remarks sir.

"Sounds familiar...yes, Hogan is exactly the opposite of the[i][b] Abe/Martinez seizure move.[/b][/i]..Abe/Martinez move including the takeaway necessary for them to prevent over rotation of the clubhead and[i][b] avoid hitting your a55 in the BS[/b][/i]..."

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='downtoscratch' timestamp='1333706928' post='4663198']
"Not Hogan. Good golfer, yes, but ain't Hogan"................. and who is, you, or your marvelous mystery man 8?? Can't see either of you from here. Why is that? Never said Mitchell was Hogan either just that they did something alike..... not cloning.
That you can't see that is of no consequence to me so go on with your snide remarks sir.

"Sounds familiar...yes, Hogan is exactly the opposite of the[i][b] Abe/Martinez seizure move.[/b][/i]..Abe/Martinez move including the takeaway necessary for them to prevent over rotation of the clubhead and[i][b] avoid hitting your a55 in the BS[/b][/i]..."
[/quote]

How come you posted a picture of Abe side by side in comparison with Hogan if you don't claim they're alike? So, what are the similarities and what are the differences? Can you explain them in detail please?

[svsvincenzo]

Thanks for the PDF. Very interesting book !

 

 

Abe promotes a closing face waggle, ... the use/elasticity of the muscles will be completely different than the opening face waggle from Hogan. The opposite for me.

Abe looks like the Martinez power move.

 

Sounds familiar...yes, Hogan is exactly the opposite of the Abe/Martinez seizure move...Abe/Martinez move including the takeaway necessary for them to prevent over rotation of the clubhead and avoid hitting your a55 in the BS...

 

Interesting view on Hogan vs Mitchell/Martinez.......... wrong but interesting nonetheless.

 

DTS, Abe's hands is already far from his R leg/hip, while Hogan's hands is still above his R leg/hip but his clubhead is almost the same and but already more open. Abe is moving his hands away from target laterally and parallel to the targetline, while Hogan is moving his hands away from target but not parallel to targetline but much inside. That is why it looks like LCT face-on. Not the same at all. Entirely opposite of what you are seeing and what HOGAN is saying.

[alexz]

[quote name='downtoscratch' timestamp='1332939227' post='4597537']
Interesting view on Hogan vs Mitchell/Martinez.......... wrong but interesting nonetheless.
[/quote]



Do you mean they have the same hands/clubface position, but Hogan plays more close to the body / around ?