Abe Mitchell and Ben Hogan

[moefan]

Hello DTS
I see there is a third book by Abe Mitchell called "Essentials of Golf". Is this one worth getting as well?
Has anyone else read it?
moefan

[Dariusz J.]

Again, many thanks, GB !

I can't believe what I am reading - another addition to already discovered links that are exactly in line with my studies, i.e. the grip and rear side joints presets - the diagonal stance is being explained on pages 8-9 ! If I found some relation to the SPC concept - I'll be suspected as Abe Mitchell plagiarist

UNBELIEVABLE !

Cheers

[dream_stryker]

[quote name='moefan' post='2083292' date='Nov 24 2009, 07:43 PM']Hello DTS
I see there is a third book by Abe Mitchell called "Essentials of Golf". Is this one worth getting as well?
Has anyone else read it?
moefan[/quote]

2nd that DTS. I see that is was published quite a few years before DTS....could it be the Abe Mitchell's "Power Golf"?

[dream_stryker]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' post='2083338' date='Nov 24 2009, 08:12 PM']Again, many thanks, GB !

I can't believe what I am reading - another addition to already discovered links that are exactly in line with my studies, i.e. the grip and rear side joints presets - the diagonal stance is being explained on pages 8-9 ! If I found some relation to the SPC concept - I'll be suspected as Abe Mitchell plagiarist

UNBELIEVABLE !

Cheers[/quote]

+1 Darius. This book would have saved me 2 years of scrounging for good angles in video and experimenting to boil done some illusions....... after all that I only got about half of the arm action..... I just got finished experimenting with MR Mitchell's right arm concept along with keeping the natural bend in the left elbow on my home SS radar. Lets just say the club felt like a whip in my hand.....I never felt the club pull lengthwise down the target line in the follow thru (at least it felt in that direction)......the radar was happier than I normally make it as well with a bit less effort

[Ezgolfer]

His description of feel and explanation is outstanding....... Seems like Hogan was inspired by Mitchell's books.

[hoolio99]

Thanks for spotting that Hoolio - I muddled up a bit .... the real LOL 42-43 is great image!

 

 

Will try and correct it in the link

 

Thanks golfbulldog. I will need some time to digest this stuff. Thanks for posting more pages too, more study to do!!

[CRHgolfer]

[quote name='Ezgolfer' post='2083277' date='Nov 24 2009, 06:34 PM']Great books .....
Keep em coming ..
Thanks.

These are hard to find . I am willing to pay for xeroxed copy....[/quote]

Agreed I too would be willing to pay for a xeroxed copy. Let me know!

[golfbulldog]

Will work at getting a PDF together for each book...may take some time to scan. They are cracking little books - not got "Essentials of Golf" - you can see why Samulel Ryder was so keen to keep him as his own pro at Verulam Golf Club [url="http://www.verulamgolf.co.uk/"]http://www.verulamgolf.co.uk/[/url] Check out the History section at Verulam and the Ryder CUp video!

[downtoscratch]

[quote name='moefan' post='2083292' date='Nov 24 2009, 07:43 PM']Hello DTS
I see there is a third book by Abe Mitchell called "Essentials of Golf". Is this one worth getting as well?
Has anyone else read it?
moefan[/quote]

moe,
My thoughts on Abe's third book are that it isn't
as well laid out and direct in it's content as the two
little green books. But hey it's written by Abe so who
am I to judge. It seems more readily available and less
costly and I surely don't regret having a copy! dts

[IH82BOGEY]

I see the great players of different time periods as transitional figures. Because of their success, they redefine for the masses what is right and “the way” golf is played. This is especially true for Jones, Hogan, Nicklaus and maybe now Tiger. How many people on the range today have heard of Abe Mitchell? Reading these excerpts makes me wonder what other information may be lost or discarded that needs to be brought forward. The great ones learned from others too. They kept some ideas, discarded some, found out some on their own and kept some in secret to get a competitive advantage. The knowledge we each need individually to improve ourselves may already exist outside of the mainstream (if you know where to look).

[razorbird]

"in every golf shot your thoughts must be ahead of the ball- at the end of the ball's flight"

Pure as the driven snow...Love it! In fact...vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

[hoolio99]

Sorted out the correct page 42-43 in LOL.

 

ANyone have any coments about the "forearms holding towards the hole" in the backswing...or as he staes in DTS pg 18 - "The forearms should not only be wound towards the hole in the address, but should remain so throughout the backswing"...

 

He sets all of this up with the grip - much like Darius has described - get the static things right and the motion has fewer areas where it can go wrong!

 

Before anyone thinks that Abe was the perfect golfer to follow he did have a pretty funky grip...he called it "double palm"with the left thumb well aft of the shaft - almost like a left handed hammer grip.

 

Will scan the pics - he does a great impression of Vardon's grip which Hogan in "Power Golf" is careful to describe as subtley different to his own (in the way the right little finger wraps round the left index finger rather than sits uniformly on top of it...seems to fit with the " 2 knuckle right hand grip")

 

Here it is

 

 

 

ANyone have any coments about the "forearms holding towards the hole" in the backswing...or as he staes in DTS pg 18 - "The forearms should not only be wound towards the hole in the address, but should remain so throughout the backswing"...

 

Possibly a related point. I was reading through this section (LOL 40-46) and making his takeaway move/waggle and noticed that point about the left wrist remaining facing the target as opposed to "facing skywards". When I tried to do this I noticed a strain on both forearms that I have never felt before in the golf swing. I also looked at Hogan's waggle in 5 Lessons and he does the same thing, left wrist faces the target and doesn't flip up. I also noticed the elbows stay very close together on the backswing when I do this, if not moving closer together. As always, the devil is in the details! Need to take it to the range to try it out. Also need to read the DTS stuff.

 

hoolio

[martinez]

[quote name='IH82BOGEY' post='2084108' date='Nov 25 2009, 10:49 PM']I see the great players of different time periods as transitional figures. Because of their success, they redefine for the masses what is right and "the way" golf is played. This is especially true for Jones, Hogan, Nicklaus and maybe now Tiger. How many people on the range today have heard of Abe Mitchell? Reading these excerpts makes me wonder what other information may be lost or discarded that needs to be brought forward. The great ones learned from others too. They kept some ideas, discarded some, found out some on their own and kept some in secret to get a competitive advantage. The knowledge we each need individually to improve ourselves may already exist outside of the mainstream (if you know where to look).[/quote]

Everything worth knowing was known within the first 15 minutes- (Quote from someone I read once)

[PivotDriven]

"The forearms should not only be wound towards the hole in the address, but should remain so throughout the backswing"...

Is that what I see at 1:39 of this video in the waggles?

[url="http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=martinez19696#p/u/26/sKc1g4ivA0Q"]http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=martin.../26/sKc1g4ivA0Q[/url]

[martinez]

Yes. It's extremely evident in Tigers' swing also, which is where I got the idea. DTS convinced me to have a look at Abe in March because he saw some similarities in the way I thought, to what Abe teaches us. There are many nuggets in his books, and they are solid nuggets. With application of his ideas and a lot of work on them, yet more nuggets will become apparent imo.

[PivotDriven]

When I first saw that in your video a few weeks ago, I knew there was something I wasn't used to seeing going on. Then when I saw the photo and read the quote, I realized that I actually had seen the action somewhere. Nice work.

[downtoscratch]

[quote name='martinez' post='2084924' date='Nov 25 2009, 05:01 PM'][quote name='IH82BOGEY' post='2084108' date='Nov 25 2009, 10:49 PM']I see the great players of different time periods as transitional figures. Because of their success, they redefine for the masses what is right and "the way" golf is played. This is especially true for Jones, Hogan, Nicklaus and maybe now Tiger. How many people on the range today have heard of Abe Mitchell? Reading these excerpts makes me wonder what other information may be lost or discarded that needs to be brought forward. The great ones learned from others too. They kept some ideas, discarded some, found out some on their own and kept some in secret to get a competitive advantage. The knowledge we each need individually to improve ourselves may already exist outside of the mainstream (if you know where to look).[/quote]

Everything worth knowing was known within the first 15 minutes- (Quote from someone I read once)
[/quote]


[quote name='PivotDriven' post='2085428' date='Nov 25 2009, 09:45 PM']When I first saw that in your video a few weeks ago, I knew there was something I wasn't used to seeing going on. Then when I saw the photo and read the quote, I realized that I actually had seen the action somewhere. Nice work.[/quote]

Al Barkow wrote something to this effect............ all that we know about the golf swing was thought up in the first few minutes everything since then is merely an [b]echo[/b].

Great catch pivot............... you heard an echo! dts

[dream_stryker]

[quote name='golfbulldog' post='2083968' date='Nov 25 2009, 01:55 AM']Will work at getting a PDF together for each book...may take some time to scan. They are cracking little books - not got "Essentials of Golf" - you can see why Samulel Ryder was so keen to keep him as his own pro at Verulam Golf Club [url="http://www.verulamgolf.co.uk/"]http://www.verulamgolf.co.uk/[/url] Check out the History section at Verulam and the Ryder CUp video![/quote]


+1 for the PDF..... My order for DTS got canceled today by bookstore I bought it from. I'm sad.....but the turkey Im about to eat is going to make me happy again

In the meantime I'll keep scrounging for a copy. Some components I discovered that worked for my swing were already in the pages posted. I am anxious for Abe to fill in the rest for me!

[hoolio99]

[quote name='dream_stryker' post='2086220' date='Nov 27 2009, 12:20 AM'][quote name='golfbulldog' post='2083968' date='Nov 25 2009, 01:55 AM']Will work at getting a PDF together for each book...may take some time to scan. They are cracking little books - not got "Essentials of Golf" - you can see why Samulel Ryder was so keen to keep him as his own pro at Verulam Golf Club [url="http://www.verulamgolf.co.uk/"]http://www.verulamgolf.co.uk/[/url] Check out the History section at Verulam and the Ryder CUp video![/quote]


+1 for the PDF..... My order for DTS got canceled today by bookstore I bought it from. I'm sad.....but the turkey Im about to eat is going to make me happy again

In the meantime I'll keep scrounging for a copy. Some components I discovered that worked for my swing were already in the pages posted. I am anxious for Abe to fill in the rest for me!
[/quote]

+2 for the pdf. Interesting reading. I have a long flight home coming up at Xmas and this would be perfect to pass the time.

[NINEBALL]

Golfbulldog and Jerry,

Got DTS on order through Abe Books. Couldn't find an affordable copy of LOL. Any thoughts on where to find LOL without draining the bank account?

The pages GBD scanned and posted are true gems.
2 things I've picked up so far that I am thrilled with:

1.) Abe's "double palm grip". great for me with shorter fingers.
2.) left stretch


Jerry and GBD,

Thank you again for bringing this to our attention. Really looking forward to receiving Down to Scratch.

These books appear to have advantages over 5 lessons in painting a clear picture. Guess Abe couldn't sell as many copies as Ben simply because he didn't have the impressive resume to attract attention. What a shame.


Great, great stuff!

Cheers

[martinez]

IMO, TIVL in LOL that isn't in DTS. FWIW.

ROFL acronym OL.

[honketyhank]

[quote name='martinez' post='2087156' date='Nov 26 2009, 08:28 PM']IMO, TIVL in LOL that isn't in DTS. FWIW.

ROFL acronym OL.[/quote]

Pass the jug over here and give me a swaller or 2. Then, wadddju say? You bin drinking whiskey for breakfast?

[NINEBALL]

Thanks Martinez......looks like I'll start with Down to Scratch by Abe Mitchell and see how it goes.


Abe kinda takes the left thumb length out of the picture. Doesn't he?

(I think I'll go back to the acronyms)

[martinez]

Look at Abes grip when you get the pictures....note the rounded look of his hand without the thumb pressure. Then compare it to Moe Normans' grip.....there's something to it.

[NINEBALL]

One thing's for sure:

As opposed to Hogan (whose thumb lengthens and stays on top), Abe's left thumb is not seen in these pictures at any point throughout the swing

[chanty311]

[url="http://hogansangle.com/index.php?p=10"]Isn't this a simpler explanation?[/url]

[downtoscratch]

[quote name='chanty311' post='2088352' date='Nov 27 2009, 06:31 PM'][url="http://hogansangle.com/index.php?p=10"]Isn't this a simpler explanation?[/url][/quote]

No,.......... no it isn't.

[dream_stryker]

[quote name='chanty311' post='2088352' date='Nov 27 2009, 06:31 PM'][url="http://hogansangle.com/index.php?p=10"]Isn't this a simpler explanation?[/url][/quote]

Give it a rest already. You don't own what you can't demonstrate. All Kearn demonstrated was a goat humping sling. He may be able to play good golf with it but people in this thread are trying to understand Hogan's fundamentals through the lens of Abe Mitchell. I got a chuckle clicked the link though.

[golfbulldog]

Here is another chunk of LOL / I will do DTS as PDF file I hope:

 

[golfbulldog]

Interesting stuff on weight transference: