How do you score lost balls?

[mrgo26]

I played on a course yesterday with deep rough and heavily tree-lined fairways, however the trees are not on top of each other. There are big spaces in between, so you always have a shot to at least pitch it back into the fairway.

 

Just curious how you guys score yourselves when you hit a an errant shot and can't find the ball? Of course hitting it way into OB or in the water is a penalty, but I'm talking in areas where you SHOULD find the ball but you simply don't want to hold up the group behind you, or you lost it in the sun.

 

I usually still take the stroke penalty but after losing a couple yesterday (my partner actually lost one in the fairway - we saw it bounce and roll but couldn't find the damn thing) I am thinking maybe I am being a little too unfair with myself.

 

Thoughts?

[PlaskiGolfer]

As long as its not in a tournament or towards your handicap you can score it however you want. If I don't find it and know that I should I don't take the stroke in casual play.

[jswaykos]

There have been times, usually when leaves are covering the ground, that I KNOW, with 100% certainty, that my ball went in to a certain area. I'm absolutely positive. But for the sake of everyone around me and the groups behind me, I'll drop but not give myself a penalty. Of course, these are in casual rounds and I won't post the score.

[NakMan]

We dont have the luxury of spotters and a gallery to find our errant shots. Pretty big

[mrgo26]

Thanks, and I am talking about casual rounds for sure. But I take my score seriously as well, so I want to be sure I'm not cheating or being cheated...ya know?

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

If I can see that it is probably lost right after I hit it I play a provisional. Otherwise, if I discover it later I almost never return to the previous spot and proceed under the Rules. So I score it a DQ if I'm in a medal play event (which I never play in anyway) or loss of hole in a match. The USGA Handicap System provides a procedure for assigning a number to be reported on holes where I pick up so I follow that as regards handicap posting.

But a lot of the time I'm neither playing in a medal event or engaged in a match. So I generally look around briefly for the ball and then toss one into the fairway and proceed. If I'm not keeping score anyway it's all about enjoying the round and that would not involve trekking back to the tee to hit my "third stroke".

P.S. If you take your score seriously there is no question about how to proceed. Do whatever the Rules of Golf say is prescribed for the match or medal play round in which you're engaged. If you drop a ball under some made-up pseudo-penalty then by definition you are not serious about your score.

[mrgo26]

I am serious about my score, but not because I'm playing a tournament or a match. I'm serious about the score because I'm ultra competitive with myself. But at the same time, if I am very confident that the ball did not go OB or in the water and I should normally be able to find the ball, I feel dropping a ball when I last saw it land or bounce is reasonable. Now when I drop another ball, I don't place it in the fairway...I place it in the woods if it went in there. The only "cheating" I guess I do is make sure I don't drop it right behind a tree and give myself a bad line.

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1311783523' post='3428624']
If I can see that it is probably lost right after I hit it I play a provisional. Otherwise, if I discover it later I almost never return to the previous spot and proceed under the Rules. So I score it a DQ if I'm in a medal play event (which I never play in anyway) or loss of hole in a match. The USGA Handicap System provides a procedure for assigning a number to be reported on holes where I pick up so I follow that as regards handicap posting.

But a lot of the time I'm neither playing in a medal event or engaged in a match. So I generally look around briefly for the ball and then toss one into the fairway and proceed. If I'm not keeping score anyway it's all about enjoying the round and that would not involve trekking back to the tee to hit my "third stroke".

P.S. If you take your score seriously there is no question about how to proceed. Do whatever the Rules of Golf say is prescribed for the match or medal play round in which you're engaged. If you drop a ball under some made-up pseudo-penalty then by definition you are not serious about your score.
[/quote]

[mrgo26]

I played yesterday for the first time since scoring my best round of 83. This course was more difficult and shot a 44 on the front...then got discouraged when I couldn't find a couple balls and didn't know how to score, so I tossed the card away. Boo!

[oneunderbogey]

By the rules. Only exception being in the rare circumstance if I lose a ball in the rough I didnt expect to lose, therefore didnt hit a provisonal. I play "4 from the fairway" meaning instead of walking back to the tee I assume I hit a good, but not great tee shot when I would have reteed and I just place one where a good tee shot on that hole would end up for me. If i had a cart and there was no one behind me I would just go retee.

[Swingie]

If its supposed in the fairway or first cut just off the fairway (not trees) with 100% cetainty Id not take the penalty especially in the fall(leaves, other golfers stealing, drainage etc). Id take the penalty for sure if its in a match or any kind of rough where I have an 'idea' but not sure - sorry dude but if its hit that errant the ball is there somewhere but you only have so much time to search so the penalty is earned.

[mrgo26]

I hear ya - makes sense.
[quote name='Swingie' timestamp='1311785259' post='3428704']
If its supposed in the fairway or first cut just off the fairway (not trees) with 100% cetainty Id not take the penalty especially in the fall(leaves, other golfers stealing, drainage etc). Id take the penalty for sure if its in a match or any kind of rough where I have an 'idea' but not sure - sorry dude but if its hit that errant the ball is there somewhere but you only have so much time to search so the penalty is earned.
[/quote]

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

You see the answer to your question but just don't want to accept it. There is no "serious" score-keeping possible when make up rules as you go along. So either play by all the Rules of Golf or else throw the scorecard away or else write down whatever number seems "reasonable" and know that it's not an actual score. That's pretty much the three options you have and I think you understand that correctly.

There is a fourth option. Don't try to be "serious" about keeping score every time you set foot on a golf course. Some of the best players I ever met routinely play rounds where they make no effort to write down every stroke or follow every Rule of Golf. Sometimes you just want to play golf, that's a good thing.

But you can't have option three-and-a-half. You're just trying to fool yourself into believing a number that isn't real.

[Rockfish]

[quote name='jswaykos' timestamp='1311783160' post='3428599']
There have been times, usually when leaves are covering the ground, that I KNOW, with 100% certainty, that my ball went in to a certain area. I'm absolutely positive. But for the sake of everyone around me and the groups behind me, I'll drop but not give myself a penalty. [color="#8B0000"][b]Of course, these are in casual rounds and I won't post the score.[/b][/color]
[/quote]

Why ? You are supposed to post every score for your handicap.

[Rockfish]

[quote name='mrgo26' timestamp='1311783381' post='3428617']
Thanks, and I am talking about casual rounds for sure. But I take my score seriously as well, so I want to be sure I'm not cheating or being cheated...ya know?
[/quote]

You're cheating.

'course if you don't keep a handicap, nobody (else) cares,,,,,,,,

[Swingie]

[quote name='Rockfish' timestamp='1311786156' post='3428754']
[quote name='mrgo26' timestamp='1311783381' post='3428617']
Thanks, and I am talking about casual rounds for sure. But I take my score seriously as well, so I want to be sure I'm not cheating or being cheated...ya know?
[/quote]

You're cheating.

'course if you don't keep a handicap, nobody (else) cares,,,,,,,,
[/quote]

Dudes just trying to get opinions on a casual round....If the rules mandate on a casual round you go back to the tee and rehit do you? NO!!!! Thres not time or logistic opportunity with full courses sometimes - the rules technically thre have been breached but you still post dont you?

Point is the rules can be very confusing and application ambiguous, so during some less serious casual rounds players would like to have a way to score fairly but not necc letter of the law as its difficult to apply all the time(non tourney).

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

[quote name='Rockfish' timestamp='1311786156' post='3428754']
[quote name='mrgo26' timestamp='1311783381' post='3428617']
Thanks, and I am talking about casual rounds for sure. But I take my score seriously as well, so I want to be sure I'm not cheating or being cheated...ya know?
[/quote]

You're cheating.

'course if you don't keep a handicap, nobody (else) cares,,,,,,,,
[/quote]

And not caring extends to not paying much attention to "scores" that people claim. If someone sitting in the bar after a round says they shot "74" I have no way of knowing how they actually choose to count strokes or play the game. They could just as easy say they shot "54" or "204" for all I care, unless I actually played with them and know what exactly they mean by "score".

I try to do a good job of keeping two "scores" when I play. One is the "score" for whatever game or match I'm playing in (most often some Stableford type thing) and the other is the "score" required by the USGA Handicap System. Both of those are funky numbers only loosely related to the kind of score I'd have based on the actual Rules of Golf.

But as long as I'm not cheating the other guys in the dogfight and not cheating on my handicap then I'm not "cheating" at all. Because I have no interest in playing stroke-play tournament rounds with all the provisionals and back to the tee and getting rulings from the club pro and all that. That kind of thing is way above my pay grade.

[1969EType]

Mrgo26, however you decide to play and/or score that situation (assuming it's a casual round with no money or other wagers involved), be sure to discuss this with your fellow players BEFORE ANYONE tees off on #1.

I'm always amazed when I'm playing with strangers and there's no discussion of the local or "today's" rules on the first tee and then I'll say something like, "Any variations to the Rules of Golf today, fellas?" and suddenly someone ALWAYS has something to discuss...

[coozapalooza]

I don't post my scores, but I do this often, when the situation is right.

I don't know what it is about my home course, but not only is the rough pretty thick, it just covers up balls like crazy. I don't keep a shag bag, but even just walking along the rough every hole I can throw a few to my dad for his.

If there is a group right on our tail, I usually look for the ball for about 2-3 minutes if I know for a fact it didn't go into a hazard or anything like that, and if I still cannot find it, I'll just drop one and continue.

[mrgo26]

Yes!! Well said.


[quote name='Swingie' timestamp='1311786979' post='3428808']
[quote name='Rockfish' timestamp='1311786156' post='3428754']
[quote name='mrgo26' timestamp='1311783381' post='3428617']
Thanks, and I am talking about casual rounds for sure. But I take my score seriously as well, so I want to be sure I'm not cheating or being cheated...ya know?
[/quote]

You're cheating.

'course if you don't keep a handicap, nobody (else) cares,,,,,,,,
[/quote]

Dudes just trying to get opinions on a casual round....If the rules mandate on a casual round you go back to the tee and rehit do you? NO!!!! Thres not time or logistic opportunity with full courses sometimes - the rules technically thre have been breached but you still post dont you?

Point is the rules can be very confusing and application ambiguous, so during some less serious casual rounds players would like to have a way to score fairly but not necc letter of the law as its difficult to apply all the time(non tourney).
[/quote]

[Vindog]

If you're serious, look for five minutes and then go back and re hit for your third...

Barring that, do whatever you want. Dropping and hitting for your 4th shot is reasonable if you are just trying to gauge a score, but not if you are trying to [i]enter[/i] a score.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

[quote name='Swingie' timestamp='1311786979' post='3428808']
Point is the rules can be very confusing and application ambiguous, so during some less serious casual rounds players would like to have a way to score fairly but not necc letter of the law as its difficult to apply all the time(non tourney).
[/quote]

Yes, they sure can be ambiguous. But not in the cases he is asking about. The Rule is quite clear about how to proceed. He just doesn't want to to what the Rules says.

[b]Which is a Good Thing![/b] I do not want every one of the 100 guys ahead of me on the course trooping back to the tee after every one of their dozens of lost balls this coming Saturday morning. What a miserable waste of time. So almost nobody does it.

I was taking the original poster at his word that he wanted a "serious" score. That means it's the real, standard, by-the-Rules score that you would card if playing in a club championship or USGA tournament.

[glfpunk]

[quote]Dudes just trying to get opinions on a casual round....If the rules mandate on a casual round you go back to the tee and rehit do you? NO!!!! [/quote]

If you hit your drive into trees you should hit a provisional. It sucks when you lose a ball that you feel like shouldn't be lost but taking a free drop isn't the right thing to do. I always hit a provisional if I'm in doubt of my drive. How many times have you been on the tee and hit one off the fairway and found yourself asking your group "we should be able to find that right?" or "do you think I should hit another one?". Those quotes are priceless and I can't tell you how many times I've heard that or said it myself. And most of the time the group will err on the side of optimism and say something like "yeah it opens up over there, you should be fine". If there's a doubt, hit another one. If you're about to ask any of those questions, stop yourself before you speak and just re-tee another ball and say it's a provisional. It saves any time being wasted and erases any and all question marks on what you should do in the case of trying to not hold up play.

Let me ask you this- if you hit a ball into the water, do you take a free drop? I'm asking that because I'm almost certain the answer is going to be "no", no matter how casual a round it is. So if you lose your tee ball, how is that any different? The rules are equally as clear on what to do for a lost ball as they are for hitting it in a hazard. If you're serious about your score, then post a legit one, it's not that hard to hit another ball off the tee but everyone wants to avoid doing it for some reason as if it's going to jinx your chances of finding your first drive.

[Swingie]

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1311788655' post='3428925']
[quote name='Swingie' timestamp='1311786979' post='3428808']
Point is the rules can be very confusing and application ambiguous, so during some less serious casual rounds players would like to have a way to score fairly but not necc letter of the law as its difficult to apply all the time(non tourney).
[/quote]

Yes, they sure can be ambiguous. But not in the cases he is asking about. The Rule is quite clear about how to proceed. He just doesn't want to to what the Rules says.

[b]Which is a Good Thing![/b] I do not want every one of the 100 guys ahead of me on the course trooping back to the tee after every one of their dozens of lost balls this coming Saturday morning. What a miserable waste of time. So almost nobody does it.

[b]I was taking the original poster at his word that he wanted a "serious" score. That means it's the real, standard, by-the-Rules score that you would card if playing in a club championship or USGA tournament[/b].
[/quote]


Ahhh, fair enough.
For a SERIOUS score you are right.

[quote name='glfpunk' timestamp='1311789389' post='3428974']
[quote]Dudes just trying to get opinions on a casual round....If the rules mandate on a casual round you go back to the tee and rehit do you? NO!!!! [/quote]

If you hit your drive into trees you should hit a provisional. It sucks when you lose a ball that you feel like shouldn't be lost but taking a free drop isn't the right thing to do. I always hit a provisional if I'm in doubt of my drive. How many times have you been on the tee and hit one off the fairway and found yourself asking your group "we should be able to find that right?" or "do you think I should hit another one?". Those quotes are priceless and I can't tell you how many times I've heard that or said it myself. And most of the time the group will err on the side of optimism and say something like "yeah it opens up over there, you should be fine". If there's a doubt, hit another one. If you're about to ask any of those questions, stop yourself before you speak and just re-tee another ball and say it's a provisional. It saves any time being wasted and erases any and all question marks on what you should do in the case of trying to not hold up play.

Let me ask you this- if you hit a ball into the water, do you take a free drop? I'm asking that because I'm almost certain the answer is going to be "no", no matter how casual a round it is. So if you lose your tee ball, how is that any different? The rules are equally as clear on what to do for a lost ball as they are for hitting it in a hazard. If you're serious about your score, then post a legit one, it's not that hard to hit another ball off the tee but everyone wants to avoid doing it for some reason as if it's going to jinx your chances of finding your first drive.
[/quote]

A provisional is a dam good point but i think it is a course they know and are certain one wasnt needed....until you cant find it. but i agree more should hit provisinals

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

[quote name='glfpunk' timestamp='1311789389' post='3428974']
Let me ask you this- if you hit a ball into the water, do you take a free drop? I'm asking that because I'm almost certain the answer is going to be "no", no matter how casual a round it is.[/quote]

I think you'd be surprised how many duffed tee shots into the lake are followed by a drop (with a penalty of one stroke) on the other side of the lake. In an actual round played by the Rules most of those would be followed by a second and/or third ball duffed into the same lake. It costs way more than one stroke on average.

But once again, I sure don't want to stand there waiting while duffers keep feeding balls to the fish, pretending they are good enough to treat it like a medal-play event.

[oneunderbogey]

[quote name='glfpunk' timestamp='1311789389' post='3428974']
[quote]Dudes just trying to get opinions on a casual round....If the rules mandate on a casual round you go back to the tee and rehit do you? NO!!!! [/quote]

If you hit your drive into trees you should hit a provisional. It sucks when you lose a ball that you feel like shouldn't be lost but taking a free drop isn't the right thing to do. I always hit a provisional if I'm in doubt of my drive. How many times have you been on the tee and hit one off the fairway and found yourself asking your group "we should be able to find that right?" or "do you think I should hit another one?". Those quotes are priceless and I can't tell you how many times I've heard that or said it myself. And most of the time the group will err on the side of optimism and say something like "yeah it opens up over there, you should be fine". If there's a doubt, hit another one. If you're about to ask any of those questions, stop yourself before you speak and just re-tee another ball and say it's a provisional. It saves any time being wasted and erases any and all question marks on what you should do in the case of trying to not hold up play.

Let me ask you this- if you hit a ball into the water, do you take a free drop? I'm asking that because I'm almost certain the answer is going to be "no", no matter how casual a round it is. So if you lose your tee ball, how is that any different? The rules are equally as clear on what to do for a lost ball as they are for hitting it in a hazard. If you're serious about your score, then post a legit one, it's not that hard to hit another ball off the tee but everyone wants to avoid doing it for some reason as if it's going to jinx your chances of finding your first drive.
[/quote]


do you hit a provisional anytime you miss the fairway? because I know i have had a few times where i couldnt find it and i knew it was somewhere just off the fairway in the rough. This is rare but it does happen on occasion.

I use the 4 from the fairway described above in this rare case, and yes i post my score. I dont feel bad about it either, because it anything its a vanity cap not sandbagging. And it happens maybe once every 10 rounds.

[glfpunk]

[quote name='oneunderbogey' timestamp='1311790126' post='3429016']
[quote name='glfpunk' timestamp='1311789389' post='3428974']
[quote]Dudes just trying to get opinions on a casual round....If the rules mandate on a casual round you go back to the tee and rehit do you? NO!!!! [/quote]

If you hit your drive into trees you should hit a provisional. It sucks when you lose a ball that you feel like shouldn't be lost but taking a free drop isn't the right thing to do. I always hit a provisional if I'm in doubt of my drive. How many times have you been on the tee and hit one off the fairway and found yourself asking your group "we should be able to find that right?" or "do you think I should hit another one?". Those quotes are priceless and I can't tell you how many times I've heard that or said it myself. And most of the time the group will err on the side of optimism and say something like "yeah it opens up over there, you should be fine". If there's a doubt, hit another one. If you're about to ask any of those questions, stop yourself before you speak and just re-tee another ball and say it's a provisional. It saves any time being wasted and erases any and all question marks on what you should do in the case of trying to not hold up play.

Let me ask you this- if you hit a ball into the water, do you take a free drop? I'm asking that because I'm almost certain the answer is going to be "no", no matter how casual a round it is. So if you lose your tee ball, how is that any different? The rules are equally as clear on what to do for a lost ball as they are for hitting it in a hazard. If you're serious about your score, then post a legit one, it's not that hard to hit another ball off the tee but everyone wants to avoid doing it for some reason as if it's going to jinx your chances of finding your first drive.
[/quote]


do you hit a provisional anytime you miss the fairway? because I know i have had a few times where i couldnt find it and i knew it was somewhere just off the fairway in the rough. This is rare but it does happen on occasion.

I use the 4 from the fairway described above in this rare case, and yes i post my score. I dont feel bad about it either, because it anything its a vanity cap not sandbagging. And it happens maybe once every 10 rounds.
[/quote]


You're right in pointing out that scenario, it's rare but it does happen. What happens very often though is a guy slices his drive into the trees, goes up there and can't find it and takes a drop because they don't want to go back to the tee.

Playing 4 from the fairway in the scenario where you lose a ball in the fairway or rough is for sure the best thing to do in the interest of not slowing down play and I used to play in an association that did that, but in the scenario where you hit the ball into the woods there's really no argument that can be made for not hitting another ball from the tee.

A lot of people say the hardest shot in golf is a long bunker shot but I'd like to revise that to instead be the provisional from the tee because nobody ever wants to hit that shot for some reason hahaha.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='mrgo26' timestamp='1311782404' post='3428560']
I usually still take the stroke penalty but after losing a couple yesterday (my partner actually lost one in the fairway - we saw it bounce and roll but couldn't find the damn thing) I am thinking maybe I am being a little too unfair with myself.

Thoughts?
[/quote]

My thought is that if you are only taking a stoke penalty (rather than a stroke and distance penalty or a made-up/substituted two stroke penalty) there is no possibility that you are "being a little too unfair" with yourself. Quite the opposite.

While there's an argument to be made that going back to where you previously hit may not be socially acceptable under some conditions, there is only one reason why someone would drop a ball and take just a stroke, or drop a ball and not even take a stroke. It's because they want to see an artificially low score on their card when they're done.

Which is fine if that's what you want, but it's certainly not holding yourself to too high a standard.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1311792604' post='3429132']Which is fine if that's what you want, but it's certainly not holding yourself to too high a standard.
[/quote]

Exactly.

[D2Doug]

About $3.50 a piece for PRO V1s, about 2 bucks a piece for standard grade stuff. LOL.



But seriously, if I know it should be in the fairway or light rough and it's gone when you get up ahead, I don't count it. This happened to me on a course I'd played the first time, we knew the ball should be findable. But with US Open style burmuda rough, geesh, it could have been anywhere. If it's for sure OB, I'm hitting 3 off the tee.

[ScratchNot]

My partner and I have a rule for casual rounds. We call it the "reasonable expectations of being found" rule. If we agree that a certain shot was within this rule then we just drop in that spot without penalty.