Mr. Hogan´s practice swing vs. real swing...

[chris_golf]

Some vids...

Some thoughts about Mr. Hogans practice swing vs. his real swing... First the footage from the SWWOG Match: <object height="360" width="480"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f6HJHXm6yk?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f6HJHXm6yk?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="360" width="480"></object> My thoughts to it: <object height="360" width="480"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x26qUFiGzc?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x26qUFiGzc?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="360" width="480"></object> Very intersting the step to the target for weighttrasfer and at release point the uncupping of his wrist... Here some more footage from Mr. Hogan from the old Hyno Channel, credits to Ralph Perez from the Gotham Golf Blog, who I think gave some rare footage to the nice people of Hyno design. They don´t mind that I reup there videos. Many are not available anymore - they told me that they have a DVD for sale with footage you never saw on youtube... Sounds interesting. Look at 0:05 concentration Drill and at 1:05 his practice swing face on! If you take a closer look to this vid you will find some footage of Mr. Hogan, which you probably never saw before... Chris<object height="360" width="640"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKW4QK7dS3I?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKW4QK7dS3I?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="360" width="640"></object>

[chris_golf]

[b]Just another view of his foot step to the target in his practice swing... <object height="360" width="640"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sZO_pGZctUo?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sZO_pGZctUo?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="360" width="640"></object> [/b]

[TeeAce]

[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1318789604' post='3679615']
[b]Some thoughts about Mr. Hogans practice swing vs. his real swing... First the footage from the SWWOG Match:[/b] <object height="360" width="480"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3f6HJHXm6yk?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3f6HJHXm6yk?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="360" width="480"></object> [b]My thoughts to it:[/b] <object height="360" width="480"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3x26qUFiGzc?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3x26qUFiGzc?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="360" width="480"></object> [b]Very intersting the step to the target for weighttrasfer and at release point the uncupping of his wrist... Here some more footage from Mr. Hogan from the old Hyno Channel, credits to Ralph Perez from the Gotham Golf Blog, who I think gave some rare footage to the nice people of Hyno design. They don´t mind that I reup there videos. Many are not available anymore - they told me that they have a DVD for sale with footage you never saw on youtube... Sounds interesting. Look at 0:05 concentration Drill and at 1:05 his practice swing face on! If you take a closer look to this vid you will find some footage of Mr. Hogan, which you probably never saw before... Chris<object height="360" width="640"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BKW4QK7dS3I?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BKW4QK7dS3I?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="360" width="640"></object> [/b]
[/quote]


Great posting Chris once again. TY.

[hoganfan924]

Thanks Chris.

One big reason that there is a difference in the follow through is the simple fact that in the practice swing, there is no ball being struck and slowing down the clubhead.

[Diz]

left thigh opposing or closed off to his transition? chris thxs

diz

[JD3]

Its a good question -- how could he look all stucky on his practice swings -- and anything but on his real ones. And one I've never seen satisfactorily answered.

[drewspin]

Very interesting, Chris.

A few thoughts:

1. Practics swing is rehearsal for handpath and direction once the shot shape is in mind... it's a shorter swing rehearsal as a sweep with no divot.

2. Spine angle and eye focus on ball is supported by "live tension" or pressure in the abdominals in the real swing... in the practice swing abs are not pressured.

3. Real swing is coming down steeper, making a divot. That action is driven by the pivot, which moves faster through. In the practice swing he is not rehearsing this pivot action.

[tembolo1284]

Chris, another wonderful video.

Keep making more videos. And make some while speaking in german!

[fats]

I like the Tales of the Hawk vid. Excellent Thanks

On the other vid that practice swing looks like my posture. Way to go Ben!!

[magnum184]

[quote name='JD3' timestamp='1318839435' post='3682169']
Its a good question -- how could he look all stucky on his practice swings -- and anything but on his real ones. And one I've never seen satisfactorily answered.
[/quote]

Cause he was a player using feelings and not some freakin robot, J. LOL. He wasn't bull shatting when he threw out stuff like those panes of glass and their inclinations or directions. Feel those things but don't expect it to look like that when combined with the other cues. That's my guess, bud. LOL. Fairly logical, imo.

[chris_golf]

I just wondered, why Mr. Hogan wrote pages for the waggle and never mention the practice swing -
and he used a very unique practiceswing himself with a lateral step with weighttransfer...

Thank you all for your thoughts - indeed his slower paced practiceswing will look different with
a pivot Driven action in his real swing.

Maybe as well he changed his mind from his fade to a punch draw in the first vid due to pin position and lie of the ball...

He wanted to feel something in his practiceswings and it looks like he was aware that the
outcome and action with cp force would be different that his slower paced rehearsal swing.
If someone saw the module 3 work of lagpressures students - this would be what I expected more
to see in Mr. Hogans practice swing...

Chris

[drewspin]

[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1318979390' post='3690345']
I just wondered, why Mr. Hogan wrote pages for the waggle and never mention the practice swing -
and he used a very unique practiceswing himself with a lateral step with weighttransfer...

Thank you all for your thoughts - indeed his slower paced practiceswing will look different with
a pivot Driven action in his real swing.

Maybe as well he changed his mind from his fade to a punch draw in the first vid due to pin position and lie of the ball...

He wanted to feel something in his practiceswings and it looks like he was aware that the
outcome and action with cp force would be different that his slower paced rehearsal swing.
If someone saw the module 3 work of lagpressures students - this would be what I expected more
to see in Mr. Hogans practice swing...

Chris
[/quote]

In Kris Tschetter's book, she recounts that Hogan told her he had no pre-shot routine, yet he did exactly the same thing every time.

Time for the mind to focus on the shot.

"I never hit a shot on the course that I haven’t practiced."

[Petter Player]

Tales from the Hawk! OH YEAH!

Look at that right palm on the follow through! Great stuff! Hands pulling the handle all the way and no right hand pronation at all going to follow through and final position on those sloppy practice swings!

I've shot a few excellent approaches lately and odd thing happen to me. I sort of intuitively left off the follow through and final position short. While doing that I was feeling like my right hand extending and left it unconsciously high and staraight, just like on those Hogans sloppy swings on that film! The shots felt effortless and ended up very close. Awesome feeling.

[farmer]

I don't think those are actual practice swings. I think he was getting everything into focus with those little swings.

[svsvincenzo]

I think in his practice swing he's just concerned with the takeaway/BS moves. He doesn't care about DS in there. That's IMO explains the disparity. And his waggle...

[bell812]

Watching Hogan make that lateral step reminded me of what Knudson wrote in his book:
I'd also realized an important factor concerning Hogan's placement of his left foot. He wasn't doing this only to establish a balance point so that he could finish flat on his foot. He did it to set up a point at which his swing would stop when he was facing the target. That gave him a place to go to and the direction for the ball. It set up a resistance in the left knee and hip that would stop him directly on the target. This was a superb way of ensuring direction.

[JD3]

Really like what Knudson had to say about his observations on Hogan in this article.
http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=213204

[Staffer]

[quote name='JD3' timestamp='1319717541' post='3725359']
Really like what Knudson had to say about his observations on Hogan in this article.
[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=213204"]http://www.golfwrx.c...ttach_id=213204[/url]
[/quote]

Very nice.

Second picture, right under the section "Lateral motion" is gold. There is no way to reach this position without a proper setup.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1319734040' post='3726635']
[quote name='JD3' timestamp='1319717541' post='3725359']
Really like what Knudson had to say about his observations on Hogan in this article.
[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=213204"]http://www.golfwrx.c...ttach_id=213204[/url]
[/quote]

Very nice.

Second picture, right under the section "Lateral motion" is gold. There is no way to reach this position without a proper setup.
[/quote]

Didn't most of the lateral motion of Mr. Hogan happen during the BS, I mean before transition?

[moehogan]

Really like what Knudson had to say about his observations on Hogan in this article.

http://www.golfwrx.c...ttach_id=213204

 

Very nice.

 

Second picture, right under the section "Lateral motion" is gold. There is no way to reach this position without a proper setup.

 

Didn't most of the lateral motion of Mr. Hogan happen during the BS, I mean before transition?

Not in this swing.

 

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1320251052' post='3750671']
[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1319734040' post='3726635']
[quote name='JD3' timestamp='1319717541' post='3725359']
Really like what Knudson had to say about his observations on Hogan in this article.
[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=213204"]http://www.golfwrx.c...ttach_id=213204[/url]
[/quote]

Very nice.

Second picture, right under the section "Lateral motion" is gold. There is no way to reach this position without a proper setup.
[/quote]

Didn't most of the lateral motion of Mr. Hogan happen during the BS, I mean before transition?
[/quote]

That's what V J Trolio claims, but the videos show otherwise as I see them. It just looks that way because he slightly increases the slant in his right leg and moves his right hip pocket closer to the target on the BS, while his centers stay steady.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1320258567' post='3751097']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1320251052' post='3750671']
[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1319734040' post='3726635']
[quote name='JD3' timestamp='1319717541' post='3725359']
Really like what Knudson had to say about his observations on Hogan in this article.
[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=213204"]http://www.golfwrx.c...ttach_id=213204[/url]
[/quote]

Very nice.

Second picture, right under the section "Lateral motion" is gold. There is no way to reach this position without a proper setup.
[/quote]

Didn't most of the lateral motion of Mr. Hogan happen during the BS, I mean before transition?
[/quote]

That's what V J Trolio claims, but the videos show otherwise as I see them. It just looks that way because he slightly increases the slant in his right leg and moves his right hip pocket closer to the target on the BS, while his centers stay steady.
[/quote]

Yup, point well taken. But in the Masters video/pics used by VJ (Hogan in blue shirt and pants, camera behind him), the hips center clearly goes way left before P4.

In shell footage posted by MH in above post, the ball is not on left heel as usual. Maybe the differences are in the specific shots he's playing, he played around with the ball, low point, path and initial ball trajectory? I'd say for stock high power fades, ball more left for a little left swing path and more lateral motion prior to transition to catch the low point but hit the ball on slightly upswing, like in VJ's illustrations? On the shell match a more center wards ball for a straighter or slightly right swing path and to catch ball slightly downwards for maybe a low baller with straight or slightly drawish ball, maybe there are trees up in there on the right side, heck or the caddy is on the left side of the fairway? Anybody knows what kind of shots were played in both in the Shell vids and VJ's illustrations?

[svsvincenzo]

Really like what Knudson had to say about his observations on Hogan in this article.

http://www.golfwrx.c...ttach_id=213204

 

Very nice.

 

Second picture, right under the section "Lateral motion" is gold. There is no way to reach this position without a proper setup.

 

Didn't most of the lateral motion of Mr. Hogan happen during the BS, I mean before transition?

Not in this swing.

 

 

Yup, agree.

 

Look at the pic on the right...almost P6...Hogan coming from the early elbow plane and lag still there with shaft still on behind/flat side, with hips very open already and forward, with 2nd tilt and extension already, while shoulders still on closed side/not yet square...wow...not Teeace at all...even at Teeace slow-mo no-flexibility copout version...veeeeeeeerrry faaaaaaaaaar...outta here...but I know, Teeace says Hogan is WRONG!!! Whoa....

 

By the way, smarTee (copyrighted), what's your 4D's findings/data on Mr. Hogan's PA#2 and lag, which in many's opinions is what distinguishes him from the rest and maybe one of his important keys? I've asked you this several times and you always didn't answer this point...

[golfpunk]

[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1318793286' post='3679829']
[b]Just another view of his foot step to the target in his practice swing... <object height="360" width="640"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sZO_pGZctUo?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sZO_pGZctUo?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="360" width="640"></object> [/b]
[/quote]



Great clip. I think you missed another important part--the right foot step that initiates the backswing. Looks like good old Hogan lagged the club going back and going through.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='golfpunk' timestamp='1320331299' post='3754379']

Great clip. I think you missed another important part--the right foot step that initiates the backswing. Looks like good old [b]Hogan lagged the club going back and going through.[/b]
[/quote]

Like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejgoFG_iIyA&feature=player_embedded

[chris_golf]

[quote name='golfpunk' timestamp='1320331299' post='3754379'] Great clip. I think you missed another important part--the right foot step that initiates the backswing. Looks like good old Hogan lagged the club going back and going through. [/quote] He used this routine always... You can see it at: 0:04 0:41 1:12 1:38 3:54 <object height="360" width="480"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qJshEkPepSY?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qJshEkPepSY?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="360" width="480"></object> Actually I did this vid, to look what was the clubselection and shape of his shots... Chris

[groveler]

Interesting to watch Mr Hogan in any slow motion demo I have seen he whips/rolls right through impact-maybe he's hiding the move like in his practice swing he doesn't look like he angle hinges but the real shot is angled hinge.
I think Mr Hogan was fine with folks watching his intent in slow motion but he wasn't giving up his hand action in slo mo for all to see.
The waggle is WAY WAY underrated by most analysts I have seen the waggle is integral to Mr Hogan and I think it was more important than the practice swing.

[tembolo1284]

Waggle...important stuff indeed.