My TIGER-stepped WEDGE EXPERIMENT!!

[Zanama]

Forgive me if I didn't clarify. I realize you can't make Wedgeflex play anywhere close to X100. I'm wanting to follow the same steps that the OP did in his wedges. Dropping #8 shafts 2x stronger in my wedges. Since he plays 6.0s, he did 7.0s in his wedges. I'm asking since I play X100s, should I go X300? I understand with the SW of my wedges along with butt trimming to length, whatever flex shaft I put in will play different than the label. That's a no brainer.

P.S. those charts you're making are excellent. Lots of info and reference points. Much appreciated

[Manz60]

[url="http://wishongolf.com/wedge-backspin-create-backspin-with-a-micro-groove-wedge/"]http://wishongolf.com/wedge-backspin-create-backspin-with-a-micro-groove-wedge/[/url]
[url="http://wishongolf.com/will-wedge-shafts-improve-my-game/"]http://wishongolf.com/will-wedge-shafts-improve-my-game/[/url]
[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/author/tomwishon/"]http://www.golfwrx.com/author/tomwishon/[/url]

I would recommend everybody read this....

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='Zanama' timestamp='1369597214' post='7110784']
Forgive me if I didn't clarify. I realize you can't make Wedgeflex play anywhere close to X100. I'm wanting to follow the same steps that the OP did in his wedges. Dropping #8 shafts 2x stronger in my wedges. Since he plays 6.0s, he did 7.0s in his wedges. I'm asking since I play X100s, should I go X300? I understand with the SW of my wedges along with butt trimming to length, whatever flex shaft I put in will play different than the label. That's a no brainer.

P.S. those charts you're making are excellent. Lots of info and reference points. Much appreciated
[/quote]

PX 6.0 to PX 7.0 is like 10 CPM stronger, while X100 to X300 is about 4 CPM stronger, so its far from the same.
X200 and X300 is only X100 who turned out a bit heavy to be X100, nothing else. To be comparable with PX 6.0 to PX 7.0 it would be X100 to Tour X7 or X100 to Monaco TX.

[Zanama]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1369617216' post='7112246']
[quote name='Zanama' timestamp='1369597214' post='7110784']
Forgive me if I didn't clarify. I realize you can't make Wedgeflex play anywhere close to X100. I'm wanting to follow the same steps that the OP did in his wedges. Dropping #8 shafts 2x stronger in my wedges. Since he plays 6.0s, he did 7.0s in his wedges. I'm asking since I play X100s, should I go X300? I understand with the SW of my wedges along with butt trimming to length, whatever flex shaft I put in will play different than the label. That's a no brainer.

P.S. those charts you're making are excellent. Lots of info and reference points. Much appreciated
[/quote]

PX 6.0 to PX 7.0 is like 10 CPM stronger, while X100 to X300 is about 4 CPM stronger, so its far from the same.
X200 and X300 is only X100 who turned out a bit heavy to be X100, nothing else. To be comparable with PX 6.0 to PX 7.0 it would be X100 to Tour X7 or X100 to Monaco TX.
[/quote]

Thanks Howard. I suppose I'll have to abandon this route and try something else as I imagine I'll be hard pressed to find just two X7s or two Monaco TX shafts. May try tipping the S400 and seeing where that gets me. Thanks again for the help.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='Zanama' timestamp='1369675910' post='7115062']
[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1369617216' post='7112246']
[quote name='Zanama' timestamp='1369597214' post='7110784']
Forgive me if I didn't clarify. I realize you can't make Wedgeflex play anywhere close to X100. I'm wanting to follow the same steps that the OP did in his wedges. Dropping #8 shafts 2x stronger in my wedges. Since he plays 6.0s, he did 7.0s in his wedges. I'm asking since I play X100s, should I go X300? I understand with the SW of my wedges along with butt trimming to length, whatever flex shaft I put in will play different than the label. That's a no brainer.

P.S. those charts you're making are excellent. Lots of info and reference points. Much appreciated
[/quote]

PX 6.0 to PX 7.0 is like 10 CPM stronger, while X100 to X300 is about 4 CPM stronger, so its far from the same.
X200 and X300 is only X100 who turned out a bit heavy to be X100, nothing else. To be comparable with PX 6.0 to PX 7.0 it would be X100 to Tour X7 or X100 to Monaco TX.
[/quote]

Thanks Howard. I suppose I'll have to abandon this route and try something else as I imagine I'll be hard pressed to find just two X7s or two Monaco TX shafts. May try tipping the S400 and seeing where that gets me. Thanks again for the help.
[/quote]


If the target is a shaft STRONGER than X100, and up against X7, the extreme can be done by reaming the hosel to 0.370, and then just tip trim X100 Tapers as they where parallel tips.

[BigJae]

Great thread. I'm currently playing x-flex c-tapers in my irons and I really like them. I'd like my wedges to play similarly. The current stock shafts are launching too high, and they feel much too soft. Which shaft will produce the results I'm looking for? Thanks for the help.


*FYI- I'm much more comfortable with heavy shafts.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='BigJae' timestamp='1369716821' post='7118740']
Great thread. I'm currently playing x-flex c-tapers in my irons and I really like them. I'd like my wedges to play similarly. The current stock shafts are launching too high, and they feel much too soft. Which shaft will produce the results I'm looking for? Thanks for the help.


*FYI- I'm much more comfortable with heavy shafts.
[/quote]

Closest match to C-Taper X flex, is C-Taper X flex :-)....but like the S400 chart tells, it will play softer in a wedge compared to your irons, due to a higher BBGM and a shorter butt, but the same shaft in wedge as in irons is always a safe choice if you dont see other options for wedges played to full swing.

[BigJae]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1369727400' post='7119010']
[quote name='BigJae' timestamp='1369716821' post='7118740']
Great thread. I'm currently playing x-flex c-tapers in my irons and I really like them. I'd like my wedges to play similarly. The current stock shafts are launching too high, and they feel much too soft. Which shaft will produce the results I'm looking for? Thanks for the help.


*FYI- I'm much more comfortable with heavy shafts.
[/quote]

Closest match to C-Taper X flex, is C-Taper X flex :-)....but like the S400 chart tells, it will play softer in a wedge compared to your irons, due to a higher BBGM and a shorter butt, but the same shaft in wedge as in irons is always a safe choice if you dont see other options for wedges played to full swing.
[/quote]

Makes too much sense lol! Thanks for the info. Any advice regarding the length of the shaft I should start with? I'd like to retain as much shaft weight as possible, and I'd really like a low ball flight. BTW, Ping Gorge and tour S wedges are .355 taper tip right?

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='BigJae' timestamp='1369731110' post='7119058']
[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1369727400' post='7119010']
[quote name='BigJae' timestamp='1369716821' post='7118740']
Great thread. I'm currently playing x-flex c-tapers in my irons and I really like them. I'd like my wedges to play similarly. The current stock shafts are launching too high, and they feel much too soft. Which shaft will produce the results I'm looking for? Thanks for the help.


*FYI- I'm much more comfortable with heavy shafts.
[/quote]

Closest match to C-Taper X flex, is C-Taper X flex :-)....but like the S400 chart tells, it will play softer in a wedge compared to your irons, due to a higher BBGM and a shorter butt, but the same shaft in wedge as in irons is always a safe choice if you dont see other options for wedges played to full swing.
[/quote]

Makes too much sense lol! Thanks for the info. Any advice regarding the length of the shaft I should start with? I'd like to retain as much shaft weight as possible, and I'd really like a low ball flight. BTW, Ping Gorge and tour S wedges are .355 taper tip right?
[/quote]

I dont deal with KBS, and there is no C-Taper stronger than X flex, so the "8 iron trick" cant be used.
- IF BBGM is higher in your wedges, and you will play them shorter than your PW, you will loose shaft weight from a shorter butt, no matter what you do. When i build Scratch irons & wedges to a set, and use the same shaft for wedges, i count 4 grams average weight loss in wedges due to a shorter butt. Thats a good reason for going up in shaft weight into wedges, so we have a limit to work from, but in your case we dont have that option.

Most wedges is .355 taper and so is Ping

For those using the "8 iron trick"
- Tapers is constant weight, so any length we cut of the butt takes weight down
If we use a 8# iron shaft vs a 9# iron shaft, we soft step 1x and will have to cut off 0.5 from butt
Thats where the difference in shaft weight comes from, so if we use a #7, we have to cut of 1 inch, going even lighter.

[BigJae]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1369731798' post='7119072']
[quote name='BigJae' timestamp='1369731110' post='7119058']
[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1369727400' post='7119010']
[quote name='BigJae' timestamp='1369716821' post='7118740']
Great thread. I'm currently playing x-flex c-tapers in my irons and I really like them. I'd like my wedges to play similarly. The current stock shafts are launching too high, and they feel much too soft. Which shaft will produce the results I'm looking for? Thanks for the help.


*FYI- I'm much more comfortable with heavy shafts.
[/quote]

Closest match to C-Taper X flex, is C-Taper X flex :-)....but like the S400 chart tells, it will play softer in a wedge compared to your irons, due to a higher BBGM and a shorter butt, but the same shaft in wedge as in irons is always a safe choice if you dont see other options for wedges played to full swing.
[/quote]

Makes too much sense lol! Thanks for the info. Any advice regarding the length of the shaft I should start with? I'd like to retain as much shaft weight as possible, and I'd really like a low ball flight. BTW, Ping Gorge and tour S wedges are .355 taper tip right?
[/quote]

I dont deal with KBS, and there is no C-Taper stronger than X flex, so the "8 iron trick" cant be used.
- IF BBGM is higher in your wedges, and you will play them shorter than your PW, you will loose shaft weight from a shorter butt, no matter what you do. When i build Scratch irons & wedges to a set, and use the same shaft for wedges, i count 4 grams average weight loss in wedges due to a shorter butt. Thats a good reason for going up in shaft weight into wedges, so we have a limit to work from, but in your case we dont have that option.

Most wedges is .355 taper and so is Ping

For those using the "8 iron trick"
- Tapers is constant weight, so any length we cut of the butt takes weight down
If we use a 8# iron shaft vs a 9# iron shaft, we soft step 1x and will have to cut off 0.5 from butt
Thats where the difference in shaft weight comes from, so if we use a #7, we have to cut of 1 inch, going even lighter.
[/quote]

Understood. Thanks again. I appreciate you.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='Manz60' timestamp='1369601530' post='7111092']
[url="http://wishongolf.com/wedge-backspin-create-backspin-with-a-micro-groove-wedge/"]http://wishongolf.co...o-groove-wedge/[/url]
[url="http://wishongolf.com/will-wedge-shafts-improve-my-game/"]http://wishongolf.co...mprove-my-game/[/url]
[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/author/tomwishon/"]http://www.golfwrx.c...thor/tomwishon/[/url]

I would recommend everybody read this....
[/quote]

Attempt at buzzkill noted. However, you overlook that I am not saying that these shafts will suddenly allow you to spin the ball like a pro, and I don't think anyone else here is either. I spin the ball a ton already on approaches, and it is easier to facilitate that action with a club that wants to yield a lower flight (x100 8 iron trick) than one advertised by an OEM as a "spinner" that only launches the ball higher.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1369751967' post='7120076']
[quote name='Manz60' timestamp='1369601530' post='7111092']
[url="http://wishongolf.com/wedge-backspin-create-backspin-with-a-micro-groove-wedge/"]http://wishongolf.co...o-groove-wedge/[/url]
[url="http://wishongolf.com/will-wedge-shafts-improve-my-game/"]http://wishongolf.co...mprove-my-game/[/url]
[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/author/tomwishon/"]http://www.golfwrx.c...thor/tomwishon/[/url]

I would recommend everybody read this....
[/quote]

Attempt at buzzkill noted. However, you overlook that I am not saying that these shafts will suddenly allow you to spin the ball like a pro, and I don't think anyone else here is either. I spin the ball a ton already on approaches, and it is easier to facilitate that action with a club that wants to yield a lower flight (x100 8 iron trick) than one advertised by an OEM as a "spinner" that only launches the ball higher.
[/quote]

Read it all and you will see that Tom is just using other words.
- He tells about going WAY softer like someone does when they step down to S from X in wedges, and he tells about going STIFFER for those who wants that. End of story is, if it feel right and works as you like it to do, its the right shaft, and the only thing i try to add, is a way to find that shaft, depending on where you wants to go.

PS! Spinners goes both higher or lower depending on model
DG Spinner and DG Spinner plus - lofts 56 and higher - lower flight (they dont add dynamic loft)
Rifle spinner and Tour Consept spinner give a higher flight on all loft. (they add dynamic loft)

[BigJae]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1369731798' post='7119072']
[quote name='BigJae' timestamp='1369731110' post='7119058']
[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1369727400' post='7119010']
[quote name='BigJae' timestamp='1369716821' post='7118740']
Great thread. I'm currently playing x-flex c-tapers in my irons and I really like them. I'd like my wedges to play similarly. The current stock shafts are launching too high, and they feel much too soft. Which shaft will produce the results I'm looking for? Thanks for the help.


*FYI- I'm much more comfortable with heavy shafts.
[/quote]

Closest match to C-Taper X flex, is C-Taper X flex :-)....but like the S400 chart tells, it will play softer in a wedge compared to your irons, due to a higher BBGM and a shorter butt, but the same shaft in wedge as in irons is always a safe choice if you dont see other options for wedges played to full swing.
[/quote]

Makes too much sense lol! Thanks for the info. Any advice regarding the length of the shaft I should start with? I'd like to retain as much shaft weight as possible, and I'd really like a low ball flight. BTW, Ping Gorge and tour S wedges are .355 taper tip right?
[/quote]

I dont deal with KBS, and there is no C-Taper stronger than X flex, so the "8 iron trick" cant be used.
- IF BBGM is higher in your wedges, and you will play them shorter than your PW, you will loose shaft weight from a shorter butt, no matter what you do. When i build Scratch irons & wedges to a set, and use the same shaft for wedges, i count 4 grams average weight loss in wedges due to a shorter butt. Thats a good reason for going up in shaft weight into wedges, so we have a limit to work from, but in your case we dont have that option.

Most wedges is .355 taper and so is Ping

For those using the "8 iron trick"
- Tapers is constant weight, so any length we cut of the butt takes weight down
If we use a 8# iron shaft vs a 9# iron shaft, we soft step 1x and will have to cut off 0.5 from butt
Thats where the difference in shaft weight comes from, so if we use a #7, we have to cut of 1 inch, going even lighter.
[/quote]

Question for you Howard-

I'm a tad hesitant about using xflex tapers in my sand and lob wedges. I'm concerned they might be a touch too stiff for shots 60 yards and in. I like the xflex taper in my PW, but after careful assessment I've come to the conclusion that I don't take many finesse shots with it. My Gorge wedges have stock stiff CFS shafts, and I don't like how high they launch and I'd prefer a heavier shaft. Is their a shaft you'd recommend that would fit my needs more appropriately than the xflex taper?

[Howard_Jones]

IMO the most "universial" wedge shaft is the X100 series.
- Its got the weight many wants, its a Low flight, but not low spin shaft, it can be tip-trimmed as you like if you need it stronger, just ream up the hosel to 0.370 and go ahead, Butt lenght is good for a wedge, its LOW priced...it works...
You cant go much wrong by getting few of those as #8 or #9, or both.

[BigJae]

Thank you Howard.

[04chase]

looking for some direction here

i as well amd looking for a we bit lower flight with some additional spin i just got new miura wedges in 54 and 60 with ti s400 that came installed but are a bit shorter than normal . re shafting is inevitable so i figured id try something a lttle different after reading this post.

i picked up a couple of 7.0 px non flighted shafts to try out (#8) as i play 6.5 px in my 712 mb's. id like to try doing this myself and would like some tips on how much and where to trim shafts . any help is greatly appreciated.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='04chase' timestamp='1370036126' post='7145786']
looking for some direction here

i as well amd looking for a we bit lower flight with some additional spin i just got new miura wedges in 54 and 60 with ti s400 that came installed but are a bit shorter than normal . re shafting is inevitable so i figured id try something a lttle different after reading this post.

i picked up a couple of 7.0 px non flighted shafts to try out (#8) as i play 6.5 px in my 712 mb's. id like to try doing this myself and would like some tips on how much and where to trim shafts . any help is greatly appreciated.
[/quote]

I know its not the answer you expected, but we have to look at much more than the shaft alone to improve our wedge game.
- The shaft is very important as a weight and feel matter, but not that important for spin, even if there is differences.

If more spin is target, we have to know what makes spin in the first place, and thats loft at impact, but the limit is 56*, but above that launch will still go up, but spin rate goes a bit down. To add spin on higher loftet wedges, its needed to reduce loft at impact, while on lower lofted wedges, we must add loft to improve spin. But loft at impact also involves in distance....whats left then ?

To be able to get the wanted amount of spin we must start by judging if we can get pure contact with the ball. That means judging the leading edge and sole shape of the club head, vs your swing style, shot varieties and playing conditions.

Then its the Ball you play. Both launch angle and spin can be quite a bit apart, even between Tour models when we use wedges.

My point is, dont leave it all to the shaft. The shafts most important factors is length, weight and feel, and even if it can adjust both launch and spin to a certain amount, dont leave it all to the shaft alone.


To your question, 7.0 #8 irons is stiffer than most shafts you can get out there, so unless you really want a stiffer shaft than your PW, or that you hit that club higher than you like, dont do anything tip side, butt trim only for use as Wedge shaft

[Howard_Jones]

..a input about the ball we play, and differences in launch and spin with wedges
Look at this chart for 2010 for Golf Digest:
[url="http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equipment/hot-list/2010-06/hotlist2010_golfballs_spinchart"]http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equipment/hot-list/2010-06/hotlist2010_golfballs_spinchart

L[/url]ets say the player was playing Callaway Tour IZ, and was happy with spin and all, but launch was to high.
- He is playing a wedge thats works and feels right, so what do we do, change the shaft or ball to get flight down, and keep or even improve spin if possible ?

Look at the chart. Callaway Tour iZ is # 6, with 6820 rpm spin and launch angle is 28.6*
Now look at ball # 9, thats Srixon Z-Star Spin is 6883, and launch is 26*
- All else equal, in this case a drop of 2.6 in launch with á wedge, and the same, yes even a tad more spin was possible.
No shaft s¨change can compete with that, if the shaft you have feels right in weight and flex.

[04chase]

will an 8 iron 7.0 play stiffer than a 6.5 wedge shaft in the same legnth?

i understand that spin comes mostly from the way the ball is striken and i feel pretty comfortable hitting that lower spin shot into it if needed. but even then im not seeing what im used too. I did come from a 52,56,60 tvd sm4 setup and with them i had no issues stopping the ball with the 52 and 56 . maybe alot is to do with the miuras(CC) but i just cant seem to stop the ball as well.

i appreciate the help you are providing , thanks.

[Howard_Jones]

PX is made down to PW, so a #8 iron is SSx2, and we loose 3-4 for each step, so on the paper, 7.0 #8 should end up as "PX 6.3-6.4", or a tad softer than a PX 6.5 PW shaft, but you still gain weight vs a 6.5 shaft, and its still a very strong shaft.

[BigJae]

Question-

Have any of you experienced anything like this~

I had a club tech take care of the shaft swap for my wedges. I didn't touch them for 36 hours. The lob wedge is making a crackling sound at the ferrule when I flex the shaft. It doesn't happen at the hosel, but it's unmistakable at the ferrule.

Should I be concerned about the head flying off?

FYI- the club tech has shafted and repaired several of my woods without a glitch.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='BigJae' timestamp='1370155987' post='7152878']
Question-

Have any of you experienced anything like this~

I had a club tech take care of the shaft swap for my wedges. I didn't touch them for 36 hours. The lob wedge is making a crackling sound at the ferrule when I flex the shaft. It doesn't happen at the hosel, but it's unmistakable at the ferrule.

Should I be concerned about the head flying off?

FYI- the club tech has shafted and repaired several of my woods without a glitch.
[/quote]

No, its the ferrule who is "climbing" on the shaft only - The "worse" that can happen, is a visual gap between the hosel and the ferrule, but on steel shafted clubs, the ferrule does noting but make a "nicer" look from hosel to shaft, it go no technical purpose, so its just as important for your game as wearing a Bow tie :-.)

[BigJae]

Thanks Howard.

[Shambles]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1370314719' post='7164780']
[quote name='BigJae' timestamp='1370155987' post='7152878']
Question-

Have any of you experienced anything like this~

I had a club tech take care of the shaft swap for my wedges. I didn't touch them for 36 hours. The lob wedge is making a crackling sound at the ferrule when I flex the shaft. It doesn't happen at the hosel, but it's unmistakable at the ferrule.

Should I be concerned about the head flying off?

FYI- the club tech has shafted and repaired several of my woods without a glitch.
[/quote]

No, its the ferrule who is "climbing" on the shaft only - The "worse" that can happen, is a visual gap between the hosel and the ferrule, but on steel shafted clubs, the ferrule does noting but make a "nicer" look from hosel to shaft, it go no technical purpose, so its just as important for your game as wearing a Bow tie :-.)
[/quote]

The ferrule actually allows the club to be returned to the bag without the edge of the hosel catching on the other clubs. That tiny little edge is pretty much of a nuisance without the ferrule and can cause or be caused damage. Other than that, I cannot find a function for the ferrule. Pings are not bothered because they took the extra step of rounding the edge of the hosel, thereby eliminating the need for the ferrule.


Shambles

[vtreilly]

Sorry to bring this back up but looking for some help after just coming across this.

I play DG Dynalite XP S300s that are hardstepped. What would be the most appropriate shaft for the "8 iron spinner"? I'm guessing the DG X100?

Currently have MP-53s (46 degree PW) and then 50/55/60. So guessing that I would want to tip trim the 50 3/8 and play the SW/LW straight in?

Many thanks!

[OspreyCI]

After reading this post I have another question.
I am not a club builder and wondering if club fitters at GolfSmith or the PGA SS would know how to do this? Do I just get ,355 taper X100 8 iron shafts and bring them in to do it? Will they know what do to if I explain what I want? What's your opinion ?

[vtreilly]

Bump for some help.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='OspreyCI' timestamp='1374513125' post='7514406']
After reading this post I have another question.
I am not a club builder and wondering if club fitters at GolfSmith or the PGA SS would know how to do this? Do I just get ,355 taper X100 8 iron shafts and bring them in to do it? Will they know what do to if I explain what I want? What's your opinion ?
[/quote]

You just tell the guy to install "these" shafts (x100 8-iron shafts) into your wedges and butt trim to standard length, or whatever your preferred length is. You might mention they aren't the usual wedge shafts, but it really won't be an issue. And yes, any club fitter will be able to do this. The procedure doesn't change, just the shaft to be installed.

[OspreyCI]

Thank you sir for the help. And Thanks Howard Jones and MG for the info here. Good stuff. This is being done to a 56 and 60 deg ATV's.

[vtreilly]

Guys - Any ideas on which shaft to use if I've got hard stepped XPs?

[quote name='vtreilly' timestamp='1374510689' post='7514070']
Sorry to bring this back up but looking for some help after just coming across this.

I play DG Dynalite XP S300s that are hardstepped. What would be the most appropriate shaft for the "8 iron spinner"? I'm guessing the DG X100?

Currently have MP-53s (46 degree PW) and then 50/55/60. So guessing that I would want to tip trim the 50 3/8 and play the SW/LW straight in?

Many thanks!
[/quote]