My TIGER-stepped WEDGE EXPERIMENT!!

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='vtreilly' timestamp='1374599518' post='7522648']
Guys - Any ideas on which shaft to use if I've got hard stepped XPs?

[quote name='vtreilly' timestamp='1374510689' post='7514070']
Sorry to bring this back up but looking for some help after just coming across this.

I play DG Dynalite XP S300s that are hardstepped. What would be the most appropriate shaft for the "8 iron spinner"? I'm guessing the DG X100?

Currently have MP-53s (46 degree PW) and then 50/55/60. So guessing that I would want to tip trim the 50 3/8 and play the SW/LW straight in?

Many thanks!
[/quote]
[/quote]

I think they make Dynamic Gold XP X100 shafts? I might look there. The second part of your question is better answered by Howard.

[Judge Smails]

I play a soft-stepped x100 or a PX 6.5 depending on the set I have in the bag. I have used an x100 8 iron shaft with success in my gap/strong sand wedge. I still like the straight up s400 for a lob wedge, as I do not hit full shots frequently. However, for my strong lofted wedge I have noticed I am more consistent with the x100 8 iron than an s400 shaft when taking full swings. It has actually made a noticeable difference in my accuracy and ability to control spin and trajectory.

[coghillcutter]

[quote name='vtreilly' timestamp='1374599518' post='7522648']
Guys - Any ideas on which shaft to use if I've got hard stepped XPs?

[quote name='vtreilly' timestamp='1374510689' post='7514070']
Sorry to bring this back up but looking for some help after just coming across this.

I play DG Dynalite XP S300s that are hardstepped. What would be the most appropriate shaft for the "8 iron spinner"? I'm guessing the DG X100?

Currently have MP-53s (46 degree PW) and then 50/55/60. So guessing that I would want to tip trim the 50 3/8 and play the SW/LW straight in?

Many thanks!
[/quote]
[/quote]


I play XPs in my irons and after talking with Howard a while back and continuing to read around WRX I went with the standard DG X100 8-iron shaft. It has to do with the stepping apparently, XP is higher launching with a longer first step. I've loved the X100s, great performance awesome feel

[pistolhughes01]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1332700471' post='4576236']
[quote name='npark' timestamp='1332691985' post='4575528']
[quote name='Raidersgolf99' timestamp='1332616558' post='4570854']
Not the thread jack, but this topic really interests me, so to anybody that can offer a suggestion, please do.
So, you play C-Taper X flex soft stepped once, in 4-P.
How would you approach shafting a 54* and 58* using the "Tiger-Stepping" process? ... .
Thanks for the guidance and advice.
[/quote]

My experience and research on some of this would hint towards having to tip trim an 8 iron shaft for this combo. The c-tapers I would assume (please don't shoot me) play similar to PX in terms of butt stiffness...at least that's what it sounds like from peoples reviews (I have not personally hit them). Since you are already at the top of their flex scale with the X then you would 'probably' need to tip trim an 8 iron shaft the correct amount to make it play a flex or two stronger then butt trim to length from there. Now don't ask me how much or if you should use an 8 or 7 iron shaft (like KBS does for the Hi-rev) because I am not an expert....again maybe one will chime in. However if I was you, couldn't get an answer and had a little money/time to tinker with I would do this; Since you already SS your shafts once I would take an 8 iron X then tip it 1" and see how it goes. If you are worried about that being too stiff/sacrificing a shaft you could try 1/2" tip leave the shaft 1/2" long then throw on a cheap grip and try it out. If it needs more stiffening then tip the other 1/2" if not then butt trim the remaining 1/2" and all you lost was a cheap grip!!

[b]*** Edit forgot about something...can't tip trim a taper...doh, that throws that concept out lol. Maybe a parallel tip shaft so that you can and bore out the hosel??? Does KBS even make a .370 tip C-Taper? Paging Howard Jones hahhaa ***
[/b]
Nate
[/quote]

Haha....yes the strongest players dont have this option, but they dont have to much problems to get spin either, but yes, you can tip trim taper shafts, but if you take to much, you will have problems with hosel fit, but if the parallel tip section is long enough, a ream job up to 0.370 might be the way to go, and then you just trim a taper as much as you got tip to trim.
(remember to have tip enough for the ferrule to, or drop it, if you go to the extreme)
3/8 is no problem without doing anything to the hosel, but 3/8 will not give more than 2-4 cpms, depending on the shaft.
On standard sets, where DG tapers is in use, and the player is playing his GW to full swing, i use the same SW value all the way up to the GW, and the GW always get 3/8 or 1/4 tip trim if possible. This way you can maintain CPM progression all the way up, if you use 0.5 shorter on both PW and GW. DG X-100 players can use the Tour X7 #8 shaft, or have a Rifle spinner made from 7.5 blanks. (Rifle blanks are only available in PFC centers, and is NOT a high launch shaft in the strong flexes)
In most cases the regular True Temper spinner PLUS is a good match as a spinner shaft for DG X100 players, but the PX 6.5 spinner is a nice shaft for both PX 5.5 and PX 6.0 players, who wants more stop on their wedges.
[/quote]


Hi there Howard

Very quick question about this topic, I know you have posted extensively on it

You mention to use a 3/8 inch tipped S400 8 iron shaft if you use x100 shafts in your irons, but couldn't you just tip an x100 8 iron shaft? That way u don't go down a flex and tip to get some more back , you just tip to get more stiffness.

Does that make sense?

Thanks for your help.

Ryan

[Howard_Jones]

Instead of tipping a X100 #8 iron by 3/8, we could just use the #9 iron, and then we are quite a bit stronger than S400
- Both S400, or X100 #8 iron is a SOFTER option than X100 #9 iron for those who wants that, and then trimming a #8 iron to be just as strong as a #9 iron makes no sense.

[pistolhughes01]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1376621132' post='7685486']
Instead of tipping a X100 #8 iron by 3/8, we could just use the #9 iron, and then we are quite a bit stronger than S400
- Both S400, or X100 #8 iron is a SOFTER option than X100 #9 iron for those who wants that, and then trimming a #8 iron to be just as strong as a #9 iron makes no sense.
[/quote]

I understand that, but don't you need the 10 cpm stiffer numbers for this to work?

What is the science behind getting more spin in this endeavor?

Thanks

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='pistolhughes01' timestamp='1376918751' post='7704254']
[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1376621132' post='7685486']
Instead of tipping a X100 #8 iron by 3/8, we could just use the #9 iron, and then we are quite a bit stronger than S400
- Both S400, or X100 #8 iron is a SOFTER option than X100 #9 iron for those who wants that, and then trimming a #8 iron to be just as strong as a #9 iron makes no sense.
[/quote]

I understand that, but don't you need the 10 cpm stiffer numbers for this to work?

What is the science behind getting more spin in this endeavor?

Thanks
[/quote]

You mix it all up....

If you play DG S300, then you have the option of using a X100 #8 iron shaft, but if you already play X100 as iron shafts, you dont have that option, unless you could find DG Tour X7 or Monaco.

Higher lofted wedges loose spin when loft gets beyond 56, but launch angle still raise, and for some its getting to high.
- If we prevent forward shaft bending, YES a stiffer tipped shaft, we can prevent loft at impact for passing 56, to get maxmized spin and a tad lower launch. Its the same DG spinner does, but many hates them on full shots, while a DG will always be happy for full swings, so this is a "spinner shaft" who is good on both partial and full swings.

Tip trimming tapers is to adjust flex a few CPM, and its often used for PW and GW since #9 iron shaft is the strongest in a set of DG, so tipping a #8 iron shaft 3/8, just makes it to be a #9 iron shaft,(actual difference is 4/8) so thats walking over the river to get some water, instead of just using a #9 iron shaft strait in.

Its common to tip trim S400 for wedges when using X100 in irons to get S400 closer to X100 (dont want to go that weak as S400 strait in), but they will still be softer than X100 (they will be like S400 Hard Stepped once since we tip it 3/8 ...4/8 is equal to HS1)

[trying2scratch]

Tried out the new wedge shafts tonight. I have rifle fcm 6.5 #8 iron shafts in my scratch 8620 51,55,60. Awesome feel, heavier weight (which i like) was able to spin the ol' srixon ad333 back 4ft a cpl times. Super nice smooth feel. I was coming from playing shafts that where way too weak, so that could be part of it. But i think it was well worth trying.

[ronanarmstrong]

Thanks to Howard and everyone else who have made this so interesting.

I get the theoretical side to this but want to ask if anyone has had any experience similar to mine:

I play C Taper S and am set to put 8 Iron X shafts into my 48, 54 & 60 Vokeys. However, like the query in post #164 I am wondering if X flex may be a little too stiff for the 2 shortest wedges and if putting in the the C Taper S+ would have the same basic overall effect (if a little diluted) but offer a little more feel than the X. Has anyone tried this, or found that putting X in all 3 wedges has been ok.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks

[J13]

I actually spoke to one of the Tour fitters for Callaway that works with most of their pga tour staff and he said it's an old practice that isn't necessary anymore with shaft tech and wedge design. He said years ago it was popular though.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='J13' timestamp='1379935559' post='7896293']
I actually spoke to one of the Tour fitters for Callaway that works with most of their pga tour staff and he said it's an old practice that isn't necessary anymore with shaft tech and wedge design. He said years ago it was popular though.
[/quote]

Shaft tech? I thought the Dynamic Gold hadn't changed all that much over the years?

Not doubting, but wondering how much really has changed in wedge and shaft design in the last twenty years or so.

[MadGolfer76]

By the way, everyone. I have installed x300 8i shafts in my j40 wedges, and they are [i]automatic[/i].

[killerbackswing]

Hi Howard,

I have a set of S400 pullouts in 8, 9, and PW.

I'm thinking to have them installed in my wedges (51, 56, and 61)

Please correct me if PW should go in 51, #9 in 56, and #8 in 60 degree wedge? And then butt trim to play length.

Please advice on where do I put each shaft in what wedge? I mostly full swing on the 51 and 56.

Thanks.

P.S
I play X100 in my irons, also have 3-7 S400 if that helps. My wedges currently have rifle wedge in X flex in them (very harsh when miss hit)

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='killerbackswing' timestamp='1385166342' post='8192758']
Hi Howard,

I have a set of S400 pullouts in 8, 9, and PW.

I'm thinking to have them installed in my wedges (51, 56, and 61)

Please correct me if PW should go in 51, #9 in 56, and #8 in 60 degree wedge? And then butt trim to play length.

Please advice on where do I put each shaft in what wedge? I mostly full swing on the 51 and 56.

Thanks.

P.S
I play X100 in my irons, also have 3-7 S400 if that helps. My wedges currently have rifle wedge in X flex in them (very harsh when miss hit)
[/quote]

Look at it this way to judge FLEX
- in a set of irons, we go stronger all the way down to #9 in a set of DG, and then we could use the #9 shafts for all wedges.
That will make your PW to be SS1, a GW to be SS2 and a SW to be SS3, IF, you make them 0.5 shorter all the way.
So, even by using a #9 shaft all the way, we actually go softer in wedges.

But, todays club head lofts is not correct, so most of us plays full swings up to GW, and in that case, we should look on our GW to be a #11 Iron, NOT a wedge. That means the ideal solution is a #11 shaft, but we cant have that, #9 is the strongest.

Now the question is, how can we make us self that #11 shaft TT is not offering?
From measuring butt flex, we now that new uncut DG at full length, measured with a 285 grams weight got a CPM difference average of 10 CPM from 1 club to the next. Play ready clubs is 4-5 depending on clamp length.

By using a chart like this, we can navigate in RAW full length numbers to identify that #11 shaft who does not exist officially.

[attachment=1960292:Relative CPM.PNG]

The chart has a point ZERO, who is a DG R200 #1 iron shaft
All numbers is CPMs stronger than this DG R200 #1 iron shaft

Find the iron shaft you play, and follow the numbers up to wedges
The GREY show a #PW shaft 10 CPM stronger than #9, so its NOT the #9 shaft used here.
A GW to full swing, should be 10 stronger than the grey PW, and a SW to full swing should be 10 CPM stronger than the GW.

Now you got your target numbers as Relative CPM, so now you can just find that shaft in the chart.

EDIT_ if you play 0.25 shorter in wedges, your target is 5 stronger for each club as RAW, and as play ready that would give about 2 cpm stronger.

The chart got a error on X7, all numbers from #2 is 10 higher then the chart tells.

[Howard_Jones]

Im not sure what iron shafts you play, but for the example follow me on this as if you played S400 all the way.

Your GW/51 to full swing got a target of 114 as Relative CPM at 0.5 length difference
Using a #9 shaft would make it to be 94 only, so you are SS2 from target

Your SW to full swing got a target of 124 as relative CPM at 0.5 length difference
Using a #9/PW iron shaft would make it to be 94 only, so you are SS3 from target

SO the question is, what IRON shafts do you play, so we can compare that to those S400?

[Golf Ball Wacker Guy]

I find this topic rather interesting. How would one determine this to be an ideal option? I've never been comfortable with my wedges with full swings. Super high ball flights, inconsistent yardages, etc. I currently play px 6.0's in irons with high ball flight. May go back to 6.5 though.

I've tried a few wedge shafts, Kbs tour, rifle spinner in 5.5 recently. All with same flight problems

[acquadiice]

so this set up will give you more spin than an s200/wedge flex/ spinner shaft?

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='Golf Ball Wacker Guy' timestamp='1385198830' post='8194554']
I find this topic rather interesting. How would one determine this to be an ideal option? I've never been comfortable with my wedges with full swings. Super high ball flights, inconsistent yardages, etc. I currently play px 6.0's in irons with high ball flight. May go back to 6.5 though.

I've tried a few wedge shafts, Kbs tour, rifle spinner in 5.5 recently. All with same flight problems
[/quote]

If you are not flipping it, and still hit them to high, go stronger tip side, so 6.5 sounds right, both for a stiffer tip, but also to gain a few grams shaft weight who is beneficial for most of us on partial shots.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='acquadiice' timestamp='1385230205' post='8195824']
so this set up will give you more spin than an s200/wedge flex/ spinner shaft?
[/quote]

No, not always, it depends on.
A player who plays X100 in irons, would ballon a S200 in a wedge on full swing, so any shaft with a stronger tip would lower launch and raise spin. When loft at impact goes beyond 56, launch still raise, but spin goes down, so a stronger tip would hold back loft from being to high at impact.

Most players dont need more spin than their PW, and many got to much, or a flight way to high, so what i have trying to tell you all about, is the options we have to solve...what ever problem THIS player got with THIS club, so this doesn't have to do with spin at all, it could be a feel or ball flight question we wants to solve by using a shaft that would be beneficial for THAT purpose.

By mixing flexes, weight, tip length and the additional option, a slight tip trim, there will always be a DG option who can be used to get there, no matter where we wants to go. DG is low priced, and pulls is "growing on trees", so it should be a cheap solution to test if you are not happy with what you got.

To answer correct to a question, please tell me what you got, whats your problems with that club, and where do you wants to go, and then it would be easy to tell what to do to get there.
Its good to know what iron shafts the players is playing, and if they are good for him.

[Rem13]

Dear Howard,

I read all the topic but your chart make me asking some questions :
I play Dynamic Gold SL S300 (+1,25 inch) on my iron and if I well understood I can go with SL X100 #8 on my 52 and 56 (played 3/4 swing)

But which shaft can I have to use on my PW played full swing ?

Sorry for my english, I am French .

Thank´s in advance,

[Camelgolf]

Ok, I have read this and became even more confused. I currently play X100 in my irons. what would you recommend I put into a 54 and 58 degree wedges? I definitely tend to see full swing shots raise and be a touch on the baloony side. Thank you, I really appreciate your help.

[Howard_Jones]

DG SL is a animal of its own, and we cant compare DG S300 to DGSL S300 directly, but "the system" would be the same.
If you want a stronger PW, Tip trim a #9 iron shaft, 3/8 and you got a shaft similar to that PW shaft TT does not offer.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='Camelgolf' timestamp='1385309364' post='8199390']
Ok, I have read this and became even more confused. I currently play X100 in my irons. what would you recommend I put into a 54 and 58 degree wedges? I definitely tend to see full swing shots raise and be a touch on the baloony side. Thank you, I really appreciate your help.
[/quote]

And what shafts is balloning for you? X100 #9 iron shafts as wedge shafts?

[Camelgolf]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1385309728' post='8199406']
[quote name='Camelgolf' timestamp='1385309364' post='8199390']
Ok, I have read this and became even more confused. I currently play X100 in my irons. what would you recommend I put into a 54 and 58 degree wedges? I definitely tend to see full swing shots raise and be a touch on the baloony side. Thank you, I really appreciate your help.
[/quote]

And what shafts is balloning for you? X100 #9 iron shafts as wedge shafts?
[/quote] s200 wedge shafts balloon. I never felt the need to change, played s200 for about 8 years and grew up with them and liked the soft feel I got around the green. Now that's its offseason I can do some tinkering. What would you recommend for someone who plays X100 in irons, (these shafts produce a desired trajectory).

[acquadiice]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1385273991' post='8198478']
[quote name='acquadiice' timestamp='1385230205' post='8195824']
so this set up will give you more spin than an s200/wedge flex/ spinner shaft?
[/quote]

No, not always, it depends on.
A player who plays X100 in irons, would ballon a S200 in a wedge on full swing, so any shaft with a stronger tip would lower launch and raise spin. When loft at impact goes beyond 56, launch still raise, but spin goes down, so a stronger tip would hold back loft from being to high at impact.

Most players dont need more spin than their PW, and many got to much, or a flight way to high, so what i have trying to tell you all about, is the options we have to solve...what ever problem THIS player got with THIS club, so this doesn't have to do with spin at all, it could be a feel or ball flight question we wants to solve by using a shaft that would be beneficial for THAT purpose.

By mixing flexes, weight, tip length and the additional option, a slight tip trim, there will always be a DG option who can be used to get there, no matter where we wants to go. DG is low priced, and pulls is "growing on trees", so it should be a cheap solution to test if you are not happy with what you got.

To answer correct to a question, please tell me what you got, whats your problems with that club, and where do you wants to go, and then it would be easy to tell what to do to get there.
Its good to know what iron shafts the players is playing, and if they are good for him.
[/quote]

i play s300s and have s200 or wedge flex in my SW/LW (the standard shafts that come with the 588 RTG)
i hit my wedges really high and want to bring the flight down a bit... i was thinking of getting s300s in them but this thread caught my attention and wanted to see what this was all about and see if this would help me.

edit, i also want to keep the swingweight at D6

thank you for the reply and the help

[lilmike24]

Mr Jones,
My 58 degree wedge is my problem. I play s400, but it just comes off like a flop shot, and lands with no spin.

Also I play s300 in my irons

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='lilmike24' timestamp='1385323724' post='8200282']
Mr Jones,
My 58 degree wedge is my problem. I play s400, but it just comes off like a flop shot, and lands with no spin.

Also I play s300 in my irons
[/quote]

If its not a swing flaw (flipping hands), then those shafts is to soft the way you play them, and then the next option is X100 like mentioned a few hundred times above here. If you start from a X100 #8 iron shaft, make it 3/8 longer than needed and test it.
Then you got the option of tip trimming it up to 3/8 if you found that #8 to be to soft strait in.

[acquadiice]

so should i go up to an s400 or x100 since i play s300s in my iron set?

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='acquadiice' timestamp='1385404557' post='8204932']
so should i go up to an s400 or x100 since i play s300s in my iron set?
[/quote]

i think you should go reading instead of asking. The answer is given, endless numbers of times, and am not spending time on those who dont care to read before they jump into asking a question like this. Its complete arrogance, who tells they din not read any of the first 7 pages, and then they dont deserve and answer. Read or stay inn the dark is the answer a question like yours deserve.

[acquadiice]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1385423366' post='8206866']
[quote name='acquadiice' timestamp='1385404557' post='8204932']
so should i go up to an s400 or x100 since i play s300s in my iron set?
[/quote]

i think you should go reading instead of asking. The answer is given, endless numbers of times, and am not spending time on those who dont care to read before they jump into asking a question like this. Its complete arrogance, who tells they din not read any of the first 7 pages, and then they dont deserve and answer. Read or stay inn the dark is the answer a question like yours deserve.
[/quote]

thanks for all your help