Green reading Woes

[Rbsiedsc]

Looking for tips on green reading. This is absolutely killing me this season (as well as some yips from in close). My SG putting started great on the year and has really struggled to gain any traction. I am 95% certain most of this is green reading as for the most part my lag putting can get me in some good spots. I have tried aimpoint express and recently Monte's Voodoo green reading and still have about 2-3 misreads per 9, which is awful. Most are under reads although their were 2 today with the voodoo method that were way off. I know that I should play more break than I see, and maybe I will try a mix of aimpoint for break and voodoo for distance and see if they mesh. Any other tips folks have found or is it just grind it out until you find something that works? My start lines are fine and I have confirmed with the teardrop string that I can hit my start lines well. Looking at the stats below the main area of improvement would be from 10' and in, so I guess that is where to start?

 

 

[mgoblue83]

Not enough rounds to show anything conclusive. Putting is hard. Don't expect to make anything over 6ft. Stop overanalyzing and realize that as long as you are making most of them inside 4 ft you aren't losing any strokes to the "field" of amateur golfers. 

 

If you want to make more putts you just need to start closer to the hole. Instead of chipping to 9 ft and getting upset when you miss... work on your chipping and make the tap ins. 

[Pepperturbo]

1 hour ago, Rbsiedsc said:

Most are under reads

If totally unfamiliar with the world around you, proper green reading takes understanding and patience.  I start that process during the first step on the fairway, then as I walk up to the green.  The first sign is the turf, time of day, where the sun is and where the green drains, low and high spots, undulations, grain, nearby water, hills, etc., etc.

 

Reading greens, in ways, uses geometry or angles in billiards.  Being a skilled shooter was about reading the subtle influences and conditions.  So, when I took up golf, assessing my surroundings came natural.  I used to travel by myself 10-20 clicks under the jungle canopy to the extraction point.  To stay alive, understanding the surrounding topography was imperative.  Seeing nature or your surroundings for what it is helps me adapt to my surroundings.

 

The other day, I was playing with my wife (14 handi) and two (mid-high cap) friends.  We walked on the third green, and one of them said, they haven't a clue about how to read these greens.  So, farmer boy (me) starts detailing my process as I stepped on the green.  When I finished, two of them looked perplexed and said, you're kidding... You do that every time?  Yep.  One said I won't remember all that, then my wife said it too.  There you have it...the biggest reason people are poor putters.

 

PS, starting back in Peltz's day, I have never been convinced any of the detailed putting methodologies out there do much more than offer an introduction to rudimentary techniques, stand over the line...and feel the tilt.  LOL Surprising how many people use one or the other, yet putting doesn't improve all that much.

 

 

Edited May 7 by Pepperturbo

[jda]

I read the whole green as I am walking up - edge to edge, front to back.  I start to build the red, blue and arrows in my head.  Then, I read the tier that my ball is on.  Then, I read the putt.  If I cannot decide how the putt breaks, then I go up a level to my tier read.  If that is inconclusive, then I go to the whole green read.

 

Sometime, you are just not sure, so get the speed right, 2 putt and make the next one.

[jda]

To expand more, the goal for me is to understand the green and where I am on it.  It is like building the grid that you see in Golden Tee, or the like, in my mind.  I do not want or need any putting line on my ball - I need to be able to understand where my ball is, where the hole is and "see" in my mind how I need to hit it.  Spacial awareness to the max, I guess.  Some of my friends get this and do similar things and some think that I am mental.  Sometimes if feels more right to open my stance if the break is greater - probably to see the whole picture better.

 

Sometimes this takes a while to get right on a new course.  We played Black Desert in St George a few weeks back and with the mountains all around, I was confused and lost for about 15 holes.  The mountains in the background were messing with my slope and up/down.  I eventually figured it out (I think) and I would be better next time.  This is why I spent more time on greens in practice rounds if given the chance.  The practice green was nothing like the course.

[Soloman1]

it’s all gravity.

 

my work here is done.

[ShortGolfer]

I found it helped to practice on a tilted chipping green with enough slope that if you missed a downhill putt, the ball rolled all the way to the fringe of the green.

 

If I had the green all to myself I'd practice very short Par 3s chipping from the rough.

Edited May 8 by ShortGolfer

[golferdude54]

Have you seen Wyndham Clark's routine on 10 feet and in type of putts? He takes the time to fix every pitch mark and spike mark and makes sure to eliminate any bumps on his line. If you can do that quick enough to not annoy your playing partners and the group behind you, you'll make more of those putts.

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, Soloman1 said:

it’s all gravity.

 

my work here is done.

My wife breaks a little to the left. 

[Soloman1]

16 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

My wife breaks a little to the left. 

 

could be the grain.

[DaveLeeNC]

My green reading is so bad (I just don't see slopes - like being color blind to slopes) that I have seriously wondered if my poor putting stroke might actually improve my putting. If my stroke were perfect, given how badly I read greens, I would never make a putt more than 3' long. I guess that this is kind of like dithering (literally adding random noise) to a signal to improve it when downsampling (in the digital audio world). 

 

dave

Edited May 8 by DaveLeeNC

[Rbsiedsc]

I have never been more tempted to get a putting mat now. Only thing I worry is it’s great for knowing the slope with the app but doesn’t teach you how to feel it with your feet. 
 

https://puttout.golf/products/airbreak

Edited May 9 by Rbsiedsc

[SheriffBooth]

I can also suggest getting a Strackaline book for your home course.  Even if you don't want to use it during the round, using it during practice can definitely help you to better understand what your eyes are seeing and the actual physical contours of the green.

[Rbsiedsc]

7 minutes ago, SheriffBooth said:

I can also suggest getting a Strackaline book for your home course.  Even if you don't want to use it during the round, using it during practice can definitely help you to better understand what your eyes are seeing and the actual physical contours of the green.

I am going to get one once my home course is done doing updates. I actually have one for a course I am playing a tournament in a couple weeks at. Looking forward to a little help

[SNIPERBBB]

One thing to really learn, even if you use Aimpoint Express is to find the fall lines of the putt. Its pretty simple most of the time. You simply go below the hole and pace around until you find the spot where you see the most of the back of the cup.  When you see that you have the fall line.   On the fall line,  draw your clock with the highest point on the fall line being 12 and the bottom being 6.  The 12-6 line is your straight putt.  Where your ball is in relation to the clock will determine generally how much break. Closer to 3 or 9 the more the break  From above the 3-9 line will break more than those below.  If you have more complex greens you just have to have more imagination when theres multiple slopes involved. 

[jda]

You can get paralyzed by too much of this.  I would set a limit and then move on.  Those who use these tools effectively are to still develop a feeling and go with it.  ...so trust your feelings even when using them and don't think TOO much.

[596]

Our greens have very subtle breaks. Very easy to mis-read.

 

The biggest thing we do is examine the edge of the hole.  Look at the grass for the direction of the grain.  95% of the time this tells you the direction of the break on our greens.  Lots of time we shake our heads but it won't lie.  

[Rbsiedsc]

43 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

One thing to really learn, even if you use Aimpoint Express is to find the fall lines of the putt. Its pretty simple most of the time. You simply go below the hole and pace around until you find the spot where you see the most of the back of the cup.  When you see that you have the fall line.   On the fall line,  draw your clock with the highest point on the fall line being 12 and the bottom being 6.  The 12-6 line is your straight putt.  Where your ball is in relation to the clock will determine generally how much break. Closer to 3 or 9 the more the break  From above the 3-9 line will break more than those below.  If you have more complex greens you just have to have more imagination when theres multiple slopes involved. 

I have actually never heard of this methodology. It sounds genius! will definitely have to try this my next time out.

[me05501]

• Practice holing straight putts. You want to confirm that you can set up to a putt correctly and accurately roll it toward your target. If you can't do that it's worth a lesson to get sorted. If you CAN do that it still pays off to do it regularly because it programs your subconscious mind to trust your stroke. Practice making three-footers too so you aren't scared of them when they matter. 
   
• Out on the course, you have to learn to trust your innate subconscious ability to observe and sense putting conditions and make reasonable adjustments based on what you see. We are descendants of the cavemen who could hunt. The ones who couldn't didn't survive. We can all throw a spear or a rock or a paper wad or a baseball as long as we don't think too much about how to do it. We can all putt too, with the same caveat. Overthinking/overcontrolling/being technical are 100% counter-productive to the task. 
   
• The partner of trusting your subconscious is learning to tamp down your conscious thoughts. These are almost too many to list, but we have to learn how NOT to think about possible outcomes, where we stand in a match, the length of our backstroke, who might be watching, what we did on the prior hole, whether a new putter would be easier to use, the ex-wife's birthday, the weather, etc. No one has ever putted better while distracted. Quiet your mind and let your lizard brain move the ball toward your target. 

[Nard_S]

if you are 54% long and I'm guessing 46% short you have speed issues as much as read issues. Maybe more of a problem because line is a function of speed, you can see it the other way but speed control is more reliable and easier to get handle on than read control. The 3'-6' stat is not very good but easy to improve. On break, teach your feet to feel slope, really not very hard to do, does take some practice at first but it can validate instincts and confirm or alter direction.

[Rbsiedsc]

15 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

if you are 54% long and I'm guessing 46% short you have speed issues as much as read issues. Maybe more of a problem because line is a function of speed, you can see it the other way but speed control is more reliable and easier to get handle on than read control. The 3'-6' stat is not very good but easy to improve. On break, teach your feet to feel slope, really not very hard to do, does take some practice at first but it can validate instincts and confirm or alter direction.

I somewhat agree. Looking at both short and long % within 3’ is 68%. Again I’d like to be better but it isn’t like <50% of my putts are not finishing within three feet. 

[ShortGolfer]

Have you had a recent eye exam to make sure nothing is amiss with your vision?

I just had one and  my vision requires less correction than last time I had an exam!

[Nard_S]

6 minutes ago, Rbsiedsc said:

I somewhat agree. Looking at both short and long % within 3’ is 68%. Again I’d like to be better but it isn’t like <50% of my putts are not finishing within three feet. 

68% is a better stat if 100% of misses are too long or too short. 50/50 on that is no bueno. 3 footers should be near automatic like 90%, make and most part back of the cup with exception of severe down hill breaks. But if you cannot go back of cup on flat lie, you cannot die from high. because speed control is canary of stroke, bad stroke, bad speed control. That's fixable in a way read is not. I can see lines beautifully one round and be elmer j Fudd on the next. But if speed is there, no three putts. There's more variables in read part than in speed part. The turf, your eyes, your posture, moisture & wind. Never mind the break. Speed is stroke control, take care of that, reads get easier and makes go up.

 

 

[Ty_Webb]

On 5/7/2024 at 10:29 PM, DaveLeeNC said:

My green reading is so bad (I just don't see slopes - like being color blind to slopes) that I have seriously wondered if my poor putting stroke might actually improve my putting. If my stroke were perfect, given how badly I read greens, I would never make a putt more than 3' long. I guess that this is kind of like dithering (literally adding random noise) to a signal to improve it when downsampling (in the digital audio world). 

 

dave

 

Three things make up a holed putt - start line, speed and green reading. If you do two of those perfectly and one poorly, you'll never hole anything. If you do one of them perfectly and two of them poorly, sometimes you're going to hole them, so you're quite possibly right. 

 

Incidentally - with respect to aimpoint, I got myself a whygolf putting mirror thing and I got the bundle, so it came with a slope platform thing. It's a variable sloping thing you stand on and it tells you what % slope you're on. I've found it really helpful for my aimpoint reads.

[Rbsiedsc]

31 minutes ago, ShortGolfer said:

Have you had a recent eye exam to make sure nothing is amiss with your vision?

I just had one and  my vision requires less correction than last time I had an exam!

Yes and it’s spot on still

[Rbsiedsc]

17 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

68% is a better stat if 100% of misses are too long or too short. 50/50 on that is no bueno. 3 footers should be near automatic like 90%, make and most part back of the cup with exception of severe down hill breaks. But if you cannot go back of cup on flat lie, you cannot die from high. because speed control is canary of stroke, bad stroke, bad speed control. That's fixable in a way read is not. I can see lines beautifully one round and be elmer j Fudd on the next. But if speed is there, no three putts. There's more variables in read part than in speed part. The turf, your eyes, your posture, moisture & wind. Never mind the break. Speed is stroke control, take care of that, reads get easier and makes go up.

 

 

But isn’t that part of a normal distribution as Fawcett would say. 

[DaveLeeNC]

14 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

Three things make up a holed putt - start line, speed and green reading. If you do two of those perfectly and one poorly, you'll never hole anything. If you do one of them perfectly and two of them poorly, sometimes you're going to hole them, so you're quite possibly right. 

 

Incidentally - with respect to aimpoint, I got myself a whygolf putting mirror thing and I got the bundle, so it came with a slope platform thing. It's a variable sloping thing you stand on and it tells you what % slope you're on. I've found it really helpful for my aimpoint reads.

FWIW, I have always said that you need to make a even number of mistakes in a golf swing 😄

 

Thanks for the tip on the Whygolf Slope Plate. I can see that being very helpful to me. I was seriously considering building something similar (but cruder). I will probably order one of these devices.

 

dave

 

 

[sheepdawg]

I just moved here to hilly North Georgia from flat Memphis, Tennessee. It's bad enough that I'm fixing to hit 70 and the eyes are starting to s*** but now the course I play the most is built on the side of a mountain. I say that gravity rule is bull****.

Back when I could really read greens I went with my first impression, the one behind the ball 95% of the time. If I read it from another angle and had question go back to your first impression. 

[ChaosTheory]

4 minutes ago, sheepdawg said:

I just moved here to hilly North Georgia from flat Memphis, Tennessee. It's bad enough that I'm fixing to hit 70 and the eyes are starting to s*** but now the course I play the most is built on the side of a mountain. I say that gravity rule is bull****.

Back when I could really read greens I went with my first impression, the one behind the ball 95% of the time. If I read it from another angle and had question go back to your first impression. 

It’s still gravity at work.  It’s just that the surroundings create illusions.  My course has some of that going on.

 

An Aimpoint read with your feet would give the real slope.

[jda]

9 minutes ago, sheepdawg said:

I say that gravity rule is bull****.

 

Live in Colorado now and while many people say that the ball always breaks away from the mountains, it is pure bunk.  Course designers have heard this too and make sure that not all of them do.

 

It took me a bit to be able to read the greens with the mountains in the background, but I figured it out in a month, or so.  If you are struggling with the mountains in the distance, pull the bill of your cap down to where you can only see the just a bit past the green.