I absolutely did not figure out Hogan's secret about 30 weekends ago

[k001k47]

[left]Bought some Arnold Palmer powdered drink mix. Now I can play just like him.
Is there a Ben Hogan drink?[/left]

[Siteseer2]

Oh...this thread does my heart good, for ole times sake....LOL....the names are different, but the arguments the same....shout out to 8i and Hoganfan...cheers

[svsvincenzo]

It appears now you gotta show your swing to be "correct" in here...as if someone can sniff Hogan's swing...lol...even on Tour nobody has sniffed Hogan...I like the old threads, very analytical and objective in general...

[ej002]

H101 - long time no see...

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1340772717' post='5175508']
H101 - long time no see...
[/quote]

Am always here.

I think I may post my swing up here for everybody's constructive comments someday. I'll be as detailed as possible on how I got there and how it's being tweaked for improvement, how the concepts analyzed were converted or applied into the actual swing. That would be fun.

Nfbandon's swing can be a start though as he willingly posted his swing and ipened it up for constructive criticism. May get the Hoganite posters couple of years back to post again. Even those with ugly swings are welcome.

I think this way everybody can learn both from concepts created/analyzed and can practically be put into action.

Will also keep us entertained during "waiting" and "boring" work hours...lol

[dpb5031]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1340778728' post='5175772']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1340772717' post='5175508']
H101 - long time no see...
[/quote]

Am always here.

I think I may post my swing up here for everybody's constructive comments someday. I'll be as detailed as possible on how I got there and how it's being tweaked for improvement, how the concepts analyzed were converted or applied into the actual swing. That would be fun.

Nfbandon's swing can be a start though as he willingly posted his swing and ipened it up for constructive criticism. May get the Hoganite posters couple of years back to post again. [i][b]Even those with ugly swings are welcome[/b][/i].

I think this way everybody can learn both from concepts created/analyzed and can practically be put into action.

Will also keep us entertained during "waiting" and "boring" work hours...lol
[/quote]

Hey...I resemble that remark...lol! Truth be told, we can all learn from Hogan, especially those of us smart enough to know that we'll never really come close. In the end, solid impact, ball control (flight, distance, trajectory) and the ability to repeat it, and rely on it are what count. No one did it better than Hogan.

[tylerdurden]

Email I wrote to myself on a few things I'm working on. Read at your own risk. And see where I;m currently at first if curious (can't get driver right yet but it'll come).

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5TSNG0G8Cg&list=FLbAQrm62MeRt4pCeJq5twdA&index=1&feature=plpp_video[/media]

few things in no particular order

On leverage -

need to be -
not backing out or getting further from ball
shut shoulders in delivery
left arm out hang in delivery- means arms in front of chest that shut - (if no left arm out hang, ricky release, thats rory's 2012 problem)
SHALLOW club plane/early elbow plane (jumping with right side opening too fast makes this impossible

Transition starts with lower body, upper body passive. Left shoulder feels likegoes left and toward target line. Right shoulder doesnt open too fast. It lowers compared to left. But left arm works out to get left arm out hang early, like hogan, as shaft shallows and stays shallow - that means turning corner through impact, PERIOD

left foot cant roll. Sole always looks at ground. If rolls then left knee gets too left, followed by lef thip and left shoulder to left. Means arc too in to out, and face too open. Explains a big right miss. and hook. Left foot down makes this all more stable and is easiest way to quickly eliminate that big miss and make miss much smaller - FOOTWORK IS HUGELY IMPORTANT

Kelvin center of mass - if jamm up and cword ball going back, need to jump and back out to make space coming down

Steep and deep - it means DEEP pivot - deep hips - and steep shoulders - DOES NOT MEAN DEEP HANDS

in backswing and on footwork, weight gets in right heal at top of backswing

need symetrical knees on BS, so get ight knee and hip BACK and dont left left knee move forward - feels like left knee cant go forward at all cause way too forward now

SYNC up backswing ALWAYS. PERIOD.

Arms in front going bnack SO DONT GET TOO NARROW

Left arm HINGES UP as make DEEP hip turn and left shoulder turns DOWN

Left shoulder turns DOWN and feels like it turns away from target AND away from target line

If shaft is too FLAT on backswing, SO IS SHOULDER turn. Steeper shoulder turn steepens shaft and visca versa

BUT CANT MAKE STEEP SHJOULDER turn if too obsessed with covering. NEED SPACE LIKE KELVIN/HUNTER IN BS so can coverin downswing.

That means MAKE A DEEP HIP TURN

Watch the video and be smart. Test theroies, V1 it all, try to predict other swings release patterns based on pivot and arm position and shaft possition etc. Study my own swing.

Practice with shorter club and only work up if looking good. NEVER go full spped if low speed isnt good. WASTING TIME.

GOODNIGHT.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1340944380' post='5187906']
Email I wrote to myself on a few things I'm working on. Read at your own risk. And see where I;m currently at first if curious (can't get driver right yet but it'll come).

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5TSNG0G8Cg&list=FLbAQrm62MeRt4pCeJq5twdA&index=1&feature=plpp_video[/media]

few things in no particular order

On leverage -

need to be -
not backing out or getting further from ball
shut shoulders in delivery
left arm out hang in delivery- means arms in front of chest that shut - (if no left arm out hang, ricky release, thats rory's 2012 problem)
SHALLOW club plane/early elbow plane (jumping with right side opening too fast makes this impossible

Transition starts with lower body, upper body passive. Left shoulder feels likegoes left and toward target line. Right shoulder doesnt open too fast. It lowers compared to left. But left arm works out to get left arm out hang early, like hogan, as shaft shallows and stays shallow - that means turning corner through impact, PERIOD

left foot cant roll. Sole always looks at ground. If rolls then left knee gets too left, followed by lef thip and left shoulder to left. Means arc too in to out, and face too open. Explains a big right miss. and hook. Left foot down makes this all more stable and is easiest way to quickly eliminate that big miss and make miss much smaller - FOOTWORK IS HUGELY IMPORTANT

Kelvin center of mass - if jamm up and cword ball going back, need to jump and back out to make space coming down

Steep and deep - it means DEEP pivot - deep hips - and steep shoulders - DOES NOT MEAN DEEP HANDS

in backswing and on footwork, weight gets in right heal at top of backswing

need symetrical knees on BS, so get ight knee and hip BACK and dont left left knee move forward - feels like left knee cant go forward at all cause way too forward now

SYNC up backswing ALWAYS. PERIOD.

Arms in front going bnack SO DONT GET TOO NARROW

Left arm HINGES UP as make DEEP hip turn and left shoulder turns DOWN

Left shoulder turns DOWN and feels like it turns away from target AND away from target line

If shaft is too FLAT on backswing, SO IS SHOULDER turn. Steeper shoulder turn steepens shaft and visca versa

BUT CANT MAKE STEEP SHJOULDER turn if too obsessed with covering. NEED SPACE LIKE KELVIN/HUNTER IN BS so can coverin downswing.

That means MAKE A DEEP HIP TURN

Watch the video and be smart. Test theroies, V1 it all, try to predict other swings release patterns based on pivot and arm position and shaft possition etc. Study my own swing.

Practice with shorter club and only work up if looking good. NEVER go full spped if low speed isnt good. WASTING TIME.

GOODNIGHT.
[/quote]


I think I can see some of these thoughts swirling around your head during your pre-shot routine....... ;-)

Because I'm worried about you developing OCD and hearing voices that aren't your own I'm gonna make a suggestion to you:

Look up Bradley Hughes if you haven't done so already. Golf should become a lot less complicated and issues to do with transition and intention should begin to clear up. His views on 'ground forces' totally changed my swiing.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1341241899' post='5203926']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1340944380' post='5187906']
Email I wrote to myself on a few things I'm working on. Read at your own risk. And see where I;m currently at first if curious (can't get driver right yet but it'll come).

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5TSNG0G8Cg&list=FLbAQrm62MeRt4pCeJq5twdA&index=1&feature=plpp_video[/media]

few things in no particular order

On leverage -

need to be -
not backing out or getting further from ball
shut shoulders in delivery
left arm out hang in delivery- means arms in front of chest that shut - (if no left arm out hang, ricky release, thats rory's 2012 problem)
SHALLOW club plane/early elbow plane (jumping with right side opening too fast makes this impossible

Transition starts with lower body, upper body passive. Left shoulder feels likegoes left and toward target line. Right shoulder doesnt open too fast. It lowers compared to left. But left arm works out to get left arm out hang early, like hogan, as shaft shallows and stays shallow - that means turning corner through impact, PERIOD

left foot cant roll. Sole always looks at ground. If rolls then left knee gets too left, followed by lef thip and left shoulder to left. Means arc too in to out, and face too open. Explains a big right miss. and hook. Left foot down makes this all more stable and is easiest way to quickly eliminate that big miss and make miss much smaller - FOOTWORK IS HUGELY IMPORTANT

Kelvin center of mass - if jamm up and cword ball going back, need to jump and back out to make space coming down

Steep and deep - it means DEEP pivot - deep hips - and steep shoulders - DOES NOT MEAN DEEP HANDS

in backswing and on footwork, weight gets in right heal at top of backswing

need symetrical knees on BS, so get ight knee and hip BACK and dont left left knee move forward - feels like left knee cant go forward at all cause way too forward now

SYNC up backswing ALWAYS. PERIOD.

Arms in front going bnack SO DONT GET TOO NARROW

Left arm HINGES UP as make DEEP hip turn and left shoulder turns DOWN

Left shoulder turns DOWN and feels like it turns away from target AND away from target line

If shaft is too FLAT on backswing, SO IS SHOULDER turn. Steeper shoulder turn steepens shaft and visca versa

BUT CANT MAKE STEEP SHJOULDER turn if too obsessed with covering. NEED SPACE LIKE KELVIN/HUNTER IN BS so can coverin downswing.

That means MAKE A DEEP HIP TURN

Watch the video and be smart. Test theroies, V1 it all, try to predict other swings release patterns based on pivot and arm position and shaft possition etc. Study my own swing.

Practice with shorter club and only work up if looking good. NEVER go full spped if low speed isnt good. WASTING TIME.

GOODNIGHT.
[/quote]


I think I can see some of these thoughts swirling around your head during your pre-shot routine....... ;-)

Because I'm worried about you developing OCD and hearing voices that aren't your own I'm gonna make a suggestion to you:

Look up Bradley Hughes if you haven't done so already. Golf should become a lot less complicated and issues to do with transition and intention should begin to clear up. His views on 'ground forces' totally changed my swiing.
[/quote]

Lol.

I'm fimiliar with Hughes and watch a lot of his stuff. Don't agree with everything though. But a friend of mine is doing John Erikson's thing too. I don't know if I agree with that process either but it's interesting.

To be honest though, I've never felt better about what I'm doing. I can post some swings from this weekend soon. It's getting really good through impact. Best I've ever had by far. I think I'm seeing things way more clearly for me. Not that I understand other peoples swings or Hogan's because I don't think I do. But I think I understand mine now. I can finally show up and hit balls and have my release not flip. Some swings it flips but I know how to fix it now. But it's not an easy fix. There's a ton of things that can go wrong but I feel like my list of things is more complete now. So once I engrain it all I should go into beast mode.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1341245756' post='5204320']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1341241899' post='5203926']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1340944380' post='5187906']
Email I wrote to myself on a few things I'm working on. Read at your own risk. And see where I;m currently at first if curious (can't get driver right yet but it'll come).

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5TSNG0G8Cg&list=FLbAQrm62MeRt4pCeJq5twdA&index=1&feature=plpp_video[/media]

few things in no particular order

On leverage -

need to be -
not backing out or getting further from ball
shut shoulders in delivery
left arm out hang in delivery- means arms in front of chest that shut - (if no left arm out hang, ricky release, thats rory's 2012 problem)
SHALLOW club plane/early elbow plane (jumping with right side opening too fast makes this impossible

Transition starts with lower body, upper body passive. Left shoulder feels likegoes left and toward target line. Right shoulder doesnt open too fast. It lowers compared to left. But left arm works out to get left arm out hang early, like hogan, as shaft shallows and stays shallow - that means turning corner through impact, PERIOD

left foot cant roll. Sole always looks at ground. If rolls then left knee gets too left, followed by lef thip and left shoulder to left. Means arc too in to out, and face too open. Explains a big right miss. and hook. Left foot down makes this all more stable and is easiest way to quickly eliminate that big miss and make miss much smaller - FOOTWORK IS HUGELY IMPORTANT

Kelvin center of mass - if jamm up and cword ball going back, need to jump and back out to make space coming down

Steep and deep - it means DEEP pivot - deep hips - and steep shoulders - DOES NOT MEAN DEEP HANDS

in backswing and on footwork, weight gets in right heal at top of backswing

need symetrical knees on BS, so get ight knee and hip BACK and dont left left knee move forward - feels like left knee cant go forward at all cause way too forward now

SYNC up backswing ALWAYS. PERIOD.

Arms in front going bnack SO DONT GET TOO NARROW

Left arm HINGES UP as make DEEP hip turn and left shoulder turns DOWN

Left shoulder turns DOWN and feels like it turns away from target AND away from target line

If shaft is too FLAT on backswing, SO IS SHOULDER turn. Steeper shoulder turn steepens shaft and visca versa

BUT CANT MAKE STEEP SHJOULDER turn if too obsessed with covering. NEED SPACE LIKE KELVIN/HUNTER IN BS so can coverin downswing.

That means MAKE A DEEP HIP TURN

Watch the video and be smart. Test theroies, V1 it all, try to predict other swings release patterns based on pivot and arm position and shaft possition etc. Study my own swing.

Practice with shorter club and only work up if looking good. NEVER go full spped if low speed isnt good. WASTING TIME.

GOODNIGHT.
[/quote]


I think I can see some of these thoughts swirling around your head during your pre-shot routine....... ;-)

Because I'm worried about you developing OCD and hearing voices that aren't your own I'm gonna make a suggestion to you:

Look up Bradley Hughes if you haven't done so already. Golf should become a lot less complicated and issues to do with transition and intention should begin to clear up. His views on 'ground forces' totally changed my swiing.
[/quote]

Lol.

I'm fimiliar with Hughes and watch a lot of his stuff. Don't agree with everything though. But a friend of mine is doing John Erikson's thing too. I don't know if I agree with that process either but it's interesting.

[b]To be honest though, I've never felt better about what I'm doing[/b]. I can post some swings from this weekend soon. It's getting really good through impact. Best I've ever had by far. I think I'm seeing things way more clearly for me. Not that I understand other peoples swings or Hogan's because I don't think I do. But I think I understand mine now. I can finally show up and hit balls and have my release not flip. Some swings it flips but I know how to fix it now. But it's not an easy fix. There's a ton of things that can go wrong but I feel like my list of things is more complete now. So once I engrain it all I should go into beast mode.
[/quote]

Thats cool. Here's my own personal thoughts on BH's methodologies and my own experiences:

For me Hughes offers a brilliant insight into the great ballstrikers of yesteryear and how to develop your own swing by focusing on similar intentions. I'm not comfortable swinging as flat as Hogan and when I swing now I FEEL like I'm much closer to echoing Greg Norman.

Flattening the wrists for a layoff move is very important to Hughes' theory of swinging, and the other key ingredient for me is his depiction of groundforces.........

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrhDByp-v0E&feature=g-user-c[/media]

I assume a more natural and upright set-up position, swung the club back comfortably whilst bracing into the right leg gently, then I flatten the wrists from the top, and drive the hips forwards focusing on thrusting the right side powerfully and getting that right foot drag as a result. For some reason it reminds me of how I felt swinging the club as a kid.

This has unlocked for me what Hogan meant by 'running the right knee'. The other thing is that my release does not flip which has done wonders for my ballstriking accuracy. Another side effect of letting groundforces and flattening wrists dictate my swing is that my right elbow stays bent and close to my body through impact as a consequence. I used to try and force this position but now it happens all by itself without any direct effort from me.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1341284194' post='5207974']
Thats cool. Here's my own personal thoughts on BH's methodologies and my own experiences:

For me Hughes offers a brilliant insight into the great ballstrikers of yesteryear and how to develop your own swing by focusing on similar intentions. I'm not comfortable swinging as flat as Hogan and when I swing now I FEEL like I'm much closer to echoing Greg Norman.

Flattening the wrists for a layoff move is very important to Hughes' theory of swinging, and the other key ingredient for me is his depiction of groundforces.........

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrhDByp-v0E&feature=g-user-c[/media]

I assume a more natural and upright set-up position, swung the club back comfortably whilst bracing into the right leg gently, then I flatten the wrists from the top, and drive the hips forwards focusing on thrusting the right side powerfully and getting that right foot drag as a result. For some reason it reminds me of how I felt swinging the club as a kid.

This has unlocked for me what Hogan meant by 'running the right knee'. The other thing is that my release does not flip which has done wonders for my ballstriking accuracy. Another side effect of letting groundforces and flattening wrists dictate my swing is that my right elbow stays bent and close to my body through impact as a consequence. I used to try and force this position but now it happens all by itself without any direct effort from me.
[/quote]

That's cool, so your posting your swing up here when?

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1341322349' post='5209640']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1341284194' post='5207974']
Thats cool. Here's my own personal thoughts on BH's methodologies and my own experiences:

For me Hughes offers a brilliant insight into the great ballstrikers of yesteryear and how to develop your own swing by focusing on similar intentions. I'm not comfortable swinging as flat as Hogan and when I swing now I FEEL like I'm much closer to echoing Greg Norman.

Flattening the wrists for a layoff move is very important to Hughes' theory of swinging, and the other key ingredient for me is his depiction of groundforces.........

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrhDByp-v0E&feature=g-user-c[/media]

I assume a more natural and upright set-up position, swung the club back comfortably whilst bracing into the right leg gently, then I flatten the wrists from the top, and drive the hips forwards focusing on thrusting the right side powerfully and getting that right foot drag as a result. For some reason it reminds me of how I felt swinging the club as a kid.

This has unlocked for me what Hogan meant by 'running the right knee'. The other thing is that my release does not flip which has done wonders for my ballstriking accuracy. Another side effect of letting groundforces and flattening wrists dictate my swing is that my right elbow stays bent and close to my body through impact as a consequence. I used to try and force this position but now it happens all by itself without any direct effort from me.
[/quote]

That's cool, so your posting your swing up here when?
[/quote]

If I ever get a camera........... thinking about joining this place just up the road from me in downtown Bangkok [url="http://www.wildinggolf.com/"]http://www.wildinggolf.com/[/url] visited it today when I picked up a set of Hogan Apex Grind irons in the same golf plaza.

Pretty awesome set-up and I fixed the sale's girls OTT swing today in 5 minutes using the swing recording software which was fun, she hit the first draw in her life on her first shot (wish I had that much talent)........ clockwise right wrist rotation from the top and start downswing with the lower body ;-)

Anyway you can store your swings on the system and if I join I'll try and pull something off of there. Not sure why you want it so much, watching the swing of a proper athlete and golfer like Norman is much more useful, not of a hack like me!

EDIT: actually I have about zero interest in posting a swing on here, never did really and now definitely don't........ I feel a couple of posters would love to take a swipe at me and posting my swing under these conditions is not why I joined the forum. Half the stuff I've posted on here is wrong so I guess I deserve it in a way. Anyway posting your swing might be your gig but it isn't mine. I'm a member of SITD and I'm going to keep working on some swing concepts and perhaps post there if I need some instruction on something......... I can understand those guys a lot better and there is less baggage, and the worst parts of my personality aren't drawn out from me.

[nfbandon]

Here is a more recent swing. Perhaps this one look less "hold offish" to you guys.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_FhsyHfeto"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_FhsyHfeto[/url]

[dpb5031]

[quote name='nfbandon' timestamp='1341351470' post='5212508']
Here is a more recent swing. Perhaps this one look less "hold offish" to you guys.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_FhsyHfeto[/media]
[/quote]

Sweet swing...love it!

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='nfbandon' timestamp='1341351470' post='5212508']
Here is a more recent swing. Perhaps this one look less "hold offish" to you guys.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_FhsyHfeto[/media]
[/quote]

What's "VLC"?

I think you slow down the rotation of pivot so that your R arm or hand can fire. Have you tried really just rotating the shoulders as fast as you could, thus just pulling the whole L arm, hand and club, with the R arm just going along for the ride? I'm sure that will eliminate the hold-off look because your pivot rotation will go thru fast without any slowing down...your R arm will also straighten much later...gets pulled straight by the L arm/hand instead of straightening with its own power..

[svsvincenzo]

By the way...excellent swing as it is...but I admire your perfectionist attitude in getting to sniff Hogan...I guess that's more exciting than actually playing, huh? Ahhh...that thirst for knowledge...more addicting than any other...

[k001k47]

[quote name='nfbandon' timestamp='1341351470' post='5212508']
Here is a more recent swing. Perhaps this one look less "hold offish" to you guys.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_FhsyHfeto[/media]
[/quote]

Looks good. I would concentrate on working stuff from the waist down.

[levi_munson]

@tylerdurden:

I have played like this for years. I have always gotten fantastic compression on the ball and could hit it 300+ in the early to mid 1990s when the Big Bertha came out *sigh*. You appear to be trying to for a pivot-driven release, but you are releasing DTL as opposed to "low and left." Consequently, you have to hit a sawed off cutter and hold off the release to prevent the hooks. I played for many years like this, and played competitively well when I practiced regularly. I now play so infrequently that I have tried to create a more pivot-driven swing. I used Chuck Quinton's early rotary swing model and had some success with feeling like I was pulling across the ball and hitting a cutter, but I still had a fairly significant lateral shift. I would hit a towering, soft fade and I am lethal with a driver.

Since this time, I too have searched for "Hogan's Secret." I think it will take someone of Hogan's physical stature to accurately replicate the model swing, but his "Five Lessons" are basically the secrets. So much research has been done with swing guru's that I believe the "truth is our there," and we already have it. Check out Geoff "Slicefixer" Jones' material and Dan "DFW1500" Whittaker's material here in the "9 to 3" thread. This is the most comprehensive information that I have located in years of searching.

And remember, footwork and the relationship to the "ground forces" discussed above is CRUCIAL to the golf swing. I have always been able to deal with sloppy footwork, but currently it is most of what I am working on. I only regret not taking this more seriously about 20 years ago.

BTW, keep searching for your secret to a great swing. The "AHA" moments are priceless....

[Dire Wolf]

I know this is just one more fart in the wind when it comes to Hogan's Secret, but I think it was as simple as not rotating the hands/clubface past square at impact. Not the right knee, not cupping, not the elbow, not plane, not the left elbow rotating to square the face...not any of that. I can hit hook after hook by doing those things, and Hogan's "secret" was just supposed to stop the hooks and give him a fade. The best way to do that is to follow his own advice in Power Golf, which was to not rotate the clubface or the hands/wrists past square, period. You can't hit a hook like that. At worst you'll hit a little draw, and to do that you have to massively change your clubhead path from in to out, which Hogan never did (inside quickly).

For bigger fades he said in PG he would open up and open the clubface a bit. For draws he said he would roll the hands and wrists and set up closed with a closed clubface. I think he just stopped trying to hit so many draws, and stopped trying to hit straight shots with releases past address position of the face. That's when the "coat hanger" hooks would show up.

And he did hit with both hands...he just didn't "release" the club very much beyond impact UNLESS he was trying to hit a draw (which he also described in Power Golf).

Hogan said we'd see it if he told us where to look. I think he was talking about that section of Power Golf. Interestingly, during the Grip section earlier in PG, Hogan said you pre-set a draw or fade by rotating the grip weak or strong, respectively. I've never seen film or photos of him doing this, though. I have, however, seen later film and footage of him hitting shots both with the "held off/inside" look (fade or straight) as well as a few where he seemed to release the clubhead a bit more, maybe even past his hands (probably draw).

fwiw

[Smash Factors]

[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1342549101' post='5293542']
I know this is just one more fart in the wind when it comes to Hogan's Secret, but I think it was as simple as not rotating the hands/clubface past square at impact.....
[/quote]

That's what Sam Snead said Hogan's secret was.

Did you do some Googling before posting this?

[Dire Wolf]

[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1342550187' post='5293690']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1342549101' post='5293542']
I know this is just one more fart in the wind when it comes to Hogan's Secret, but I think it was as simple as not rotating the hands/clubface past square at impact.....
[/quote]

That's what Sam Snead said Hogan's secret was.

Did you do some Googling before posting this?
[/quote]

No, I studied Hogan for 14 years and have hit god knows how many golf balls. I'm providing additional information based on Hogan's actual words and pictures and offering my opinion, not claiming some unique new theory.

Do you think Snead and I are wrong?

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1342551354' post='5293828']
[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1342550187' post='5293690']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1342549101' post='5293542']
I know this is just one more fart in the wind when it comes to Hogan's Secret, but I think it was as simple as not rotating the hands/clubface past square at impact.....
[/quote]

That's what Sam Snead said Hogan's secret was.

Did you do some Googling before posting this?
[/quote]

No, I studied Hogan for 14 years and have hit god knows how many golf balls. I'm providing additional information based on Hogan's actual words and pictures and offering my opinion, not claiming some unique new theory.

Do you think Snead and I are wrong?
[/quote]

Wolfman,

During your 14 years of Hogan study and hitting God knows how many balls, were you able to transfer any of your Hogan study to your own swing? You got any video of it?

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1342551354' post='5293828']
[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1342550187' post='5293690']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1342549101' post='5293542']
I know this is just one more fart in the wind when it comes to Hogan's Secret, but I think it was as simple as not rotating the hands/clubface past square at impact.....
[/quote]

That's what Sam Snead said Hogan's secret was.

Did you do some Googling before posting this?
[/quote]

No, I studied Hogan for 14 years and have hit god knows how many golf balls. I'm providing additional information based on Hogan's actual words and pictures and offering my opinion, not claiming some unique new theory.

Do you think Snead and I are wrong?
[/quote]


DW, thats a very valid observation............. however technically it should be Hogan doesn't rotate hands through impact, even flippers are square at impact otherwise it wouldn't go straight!

Hogan went from being a flipper to the opposite............. no doubt this was his big discovery............ that utilizing the pivot and hitting with the right hand instead of rolling would get rid of his nasty hook............ and no matter how hard he went at the ball it wouldn't go left.

What were some of his little swing set ups and pressures to help achieve this? this is another matter but the big picture view has to be what you've observed.

[Smash Factors]

[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1342551354' post='5293828']
[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1342550187' post='5293690']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1342549101' post='5293542']
I know this is just one more fart in the wind when it comes to Hogan's Secret, but I think it was as simple as not rotating the hands/clubface past square at impact.....
[/quote]

That's what Sam Snead said Hogan's secret was.

Did you do some Googling before posting this?
[/quote]

No, I studied Hogan for 14 years and have hit god knows how many golf balls. I'm providing additional information based on Hogan's actual words and pictures and offering my opinion, not claiming some unique new theory.

Do you think Snead and I are wrong?
[/quote]

Yes and no.

I believe Hogan's secret enabled him to prevent the hands from rolling over. You can't just claim that the secret was "Not rolling the hands over". He did something to make this happen and it has yet to be discovered.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1342552851' post='5294004']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1342551354' post='5293828']
[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1342550187' post='5293690']

That's what Sam Snead said Hogan's secret was.

Did you do some Googling before posting this?
[/quote]

No, I studied Hogan for 14 years and have hit god knows how many golf balls. I'm providing additional information based on Hogan's actual words and pictures and offering my opinion, not claiming some unique new theory.

Do you think Snead and I are wrong?
[/quote]

Yes and no.

I believe Hogan's secret enabled him to prevent the hands from rolling over. You can't just claim that the secret was "Not rolling the hands over". He did something to make this happen and it has yet to be discovered.
[/quote]

I just hope a lucky group of archaeologists dig it up in my lifetime................

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1342552851' post='5294004']
I believe Hogan's secret enabled him to prevent the hands from rolling over. You can't just claim that the secret was "Not rolling the hands over". He did something to make this happen and it has yet to be discovered.
[/quote]

But sometimes his hands [b]do[/b] roll over! In this view of a driver swing, look at :34 when the club head reappears - the face is fully rolled. At :54, you can clearly see his hands fully rolled in the follow through. Does this mean that Hogan only used the secret on some swings?

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeFBj3361i8[/media]

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1342556147' post='5294374']
[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1342552851' post='5294004']
I believe Hogan's secret enabled him to prevent the hands from rolling over. You can't just claim that the secret was "Not rolling the hands over". He did something to make this happen and it has yet to be discovered.
[/quote]

But sometimes his hands [b]do[/b] roll over! In this view of a driver swing, look at :34 when the club head reappears - the face is fully rolled. At :54, you can clearly see his hands fully rolled in the follow through. Does this mean that Hogan only used the secret on some swings?

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeFBj3361i8[/media]
[/quote]

Bad terminology by DW more than anything else............ of course the hands and arms turn over after impact however they are not thrown/flipped through the impact zone............. if they were the clubface in the follow thru would be facing the ground, whereas for Hogan and other classic ballstrikers the club face remains far more open.

[JBOMB808]

I don't have my copy of 5L with me, but Hogan says he only had to focus on doing a few things right for every swing. I know one was the bowed wrist into impact, and two was correctly sequencing the downswing. Anyone remember if there was a third?

I believe that was his secret, he narrowed "his" swing thoughts down to a few short essentials instead of dissecting it into 1001 parts. If you figure out how to do those few things correctly no matter how upright/flat the backswing - you have yourself a consistently repeating golf swing. You can go into the details when you can stripe it like him and hit 14 fairways/18 greens on a whim. Try not to speculate, dig it out of the dirt.

[svsvincenzo]

In PG, Hogan clearly had a 3-knuckle grip and advocated a limp R arm, and a R elbow that is always under the L elbow. He also advocated a strict no-turning or no-pronation of the L hand, and a no-turning or no-fanning of the clubface during the BS. He wanted the clubface to be totally square all the time to the arc of the clubhead.

In '55 Life article, '57 5Lessons, and '85 Golf Digest interview with Seitz, it was different. He clearly had a swing change.

In '55 Life article, he said no matter how much he rolled into the ball, he wouldn't hook it. And of course he changed into a 1-knuckler grip and had a slightly cupped L wrist on top. He said the palm of his R hand faces the sky, the palm of his L hand faces the ground.

In '55 5Lessons, he also had a 1-knuckler, tightened or connected his R armpit to his body, definitely no limp R arm/elbow, and no R elbow below the L elbow. He also said the supination of the L wrist and the L wrist bone leading the hands/clubhead.

In '85 GD, he clearly said he rolled or fanned the face of the club as open and as far as possible in the BS. He emphasized the use of the L arm, and emphasized the connection of the arms to the body.

Despite the above changes from PG (from square to turning/rolling clubhead), Hogan's hands never crossed-over at IMPACT. Never. The crossing-over always started to happen around at least a foot past impact. Yeah, the big question is WHY?????

IMO, the secret cannot be the non-rolling over intent on the hands and clubhead/clubface because Hogan clearly said he had a rolling intent based on the above articles/book. It is something else. How can Hogan have a rolling intent, but his hands and clubface remained square and didn't cross-over too early before and at impact. It is always after impact. That is the question.

[JBOMB808]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1342576748' post='5296596']
In PG, Hogan clearly had a 3-knuckle grip and advocated a limp R arm, and a R elbow that is always under the L elbow. He also advocated a strict no-turning or no-pronation of the L hand, and a no-turning or no-fanning of the clubface during the BS. He wanted the clubface to be totally square all the time to the arc of the clubhead.

In '55 Life article, '57 5Lessons, and '85 Golf Digest interview with Seitz, it was different. He clearly had a swing change.

In '55 Life article, he said no matter how much he rolled into the ball, he wouldn't hook it. And of course he changed into a 1-knuckler grip and had a slightly cupped L wrist on top. He said the palm of his R hand faces the sky, the palm of his L hand faces the ground.

In '55 5Lessons, he also had a 1-knuckler, tightened or connected his R armpit to his body, definitely no limp R arm/elbow, and no R elbow below the L elbow. He also said the supination of the L wrist and the L wrist bone leading the hands/clubhead.

In '85 GD, he clearly said he rolled or fanned the face of the club as open and as far as possible in the BS. He emphasized the use of the L arm, and emphasized the connection of the arms to the body.

Despite the above changes from PG (from square to turning/rolling clubhead), Hogan's hands never crossed-over at IMPACT. Never. The crossing-over always started to happen around at least a foot past impact. Yeah, the big question is WHY?????

IMO, the secret cannot be the non-rolling over intent on the hands and clubhead/clubface because Hogan clearly said he had a rolling intent based on the above articles/book. It is something else. How can Hogan have a rolling intent, but his hands and clubface remained square and didn't cross-over too early before and at impact. It is always after impact. That is the question.
[/quote]

I believe his PG swing was somewhat flawed. It seemed he definitely played a "hold-off" type of release. Sort of Hunter Mahan-like. I believe anything pre-secret('49-50) shouldn't be used for speculation, but the fanning 'open' of the clubface and the weak grip are definitely tweaks toward curing a hook. Hogan's intention seemed to be keeping the clubface square throughout the impact zone by a reaction of something else he did. Hogan said himself the most important part of the swing was how he started the downswing. I feel Hogan's secret has something to do was his clubface's rate of closure to be more specific. From wide open to square happens with a flick from his 'lag', but his release slowed down the release of the toe to the speed of his pivot. Even his flat backswing to a high finish says something about the rate of closure. Compare Furyk to Kuchar's rate of closure and their extreme swing planes.