I absolutely did not figure out Hogan's secret about 30 weekends ago

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='k001k47' timestamp='1340080229' post='5126220']
Didn't Henny Bogan say - in an interview - that the secret was in Five Lessons? I have a theory rattling around in my empty noggin as to what it is.
[/quote]

What interview? What secret?

[k001k47]

[quote name='svsvincenzo' timestamp='1340116695' post='5127908']
[quote name='k001k47' timestamp='1340080229' post='5126220']
Didn't Henny Bogan say - in an interview - that the secret was in Five Lessons? I have a theory rattling around in my empty noggin as to what it is.
[/quote]

What interview? What secret?
[/quote]


[left][b]HOGAN:[/b] Yes, years ago. When I first started on Tour, I had a terrible problem with a hook and I struggled constantly to learn to fade the ball. Finally, one day I said to myself, "Henny Bogan, you have got to go home and correct this. Otherwise you're never gonna make a living."[/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3]So I came home for two weeks and worked and thought about my game. I'll never forget, one night in bed I got an idea, something I might try. Well, I could barely wait for the sun to come up the next morning. Out I went to the practice tee and started trying out my theory. It worked. It worked all day long. And the next day. And the next day too.[/size][/color][/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3]So I said, I've got to take this out on Tour and put it under some pressure. The next week was the George May Tournament in Chicago—and in those days he had two events, back to back. A big field of players competed the first week, and then the top 12 from that tournament went on to play for big money the following week. Well, I went up there and won both of them.[/size][/color][/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3][b]GOLF:[/b] What was that inspiration?[/size][/color][/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3][b]HOGAN:[/b] I'm not telling (smiling).[/size][/color][/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3][b]GOLF:[/b] Did it relate to one of the fundamentals in your book, "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf"?[/size][/color][/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3][b]HOGAN:[/b] Yes, it did.[/size][/color][/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3][b]GOLF:[/b] It was the part about pronation and supination, wasn't it?[/size][/color][/left]







[left][color=#000000][size=3]Read more: [url="http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/golf-magazine-interview-ben-hogan#ixzz1yGShhc3q"]http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/golf-magazine-interview-ben-hogan#ixzz1yGShhc3q[/url][/size][/color][/left]
Actually, now that I think about it, his talk about the grip reminds me of that Coleman video:
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkkowK-F_xo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkkowK-F_xo[/url]
[color=#000000]That bit at the end about the grip - which starts at around 8:20 - and the right hand pushing the club along is great. Every time I go back to that simple swing thought, I strike some beautiful shots (for my ability level). This in turn, just reminded me of a wacky theory that came to me once while driving: the muscles along the outside and top of the forearms shouldn't be tense in the hitting area. Indeed, said muscles in the right forearm pull the hand into a nice hinged position in the backswing, so they shouldn't be excessively flexed and stiff. The theory I had was that the 'inside muscles' of the right forearm firing (through the hitting area) to release the hinge created in the back swing are balanced by an equal amount of pressure exerted by the same muscles in the left forearm. Feeling this resistance by the left forearm prevents that flippy extension of the left wrist; this allows the right hand to pronate and left hand to suppinate together. The theory wasn't this elaborate when it came to me. I was just messing around with my grip while keeping the steering wheel centered (traffic hazard). I went to the range and proceeded to have a surprisingly accurate session. However, I soon dismissed the theory, as it promotes too much 'rolling over' through the hitting area and snaps the clubface shut. 'counter intuitive to the pull hook I have trouble with. . . or maybe I just grooved that forearm action chipping and pitching.[/color] A fusion of this theory and Hogan's "right hand pushing the club along" work nicely for me.
This isn't what I think of the secret at all, though. I just started to babble there. I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to anatomy, but I really enjoy practicing and learning about the golf swing. So flame away and learn me somethin, Hoganites

Also, this is really the first active posting I've done after a lot of lurking in the classifieds section, and sometimes this forum. That said, [b]hello world! [/b](forum)

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='k001k47' timestamp='1340134761' post='5129982']
[quote name='svsvincenzo' timestamp='1340116695' post='5127908']
[quote name='k001k47' timestamp='1340080229' post='5126220']
Didn't Henny Bogan say - in an interview - that the secret was in Five Lessons? I have a theory rattling around in my empty noggin as to what it is.
[/quote]

What interview? What secret?
[/quote]



[left][b]HOGAN:[/b] Yes, years ago. When I first started on Tour, I had a terrible problem with a hook and I struggled constantly to learn to fade the ball. Finally, one day I said to myself, "Henny Bogan, you have got to go home and correct this. Otherwise you're never gonna make a living."[/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3]So I came home for two weeks and worked and thought about my game. I'll never forget, one night in bed I got an idea, something I might try. Well, I could barely wait for the sun to come up the next morning. Out I went to the practice tee and started trying out my theory. It worked. It worked all day long. And the next day. And the next day too.[/size][/color][/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3]So I said, I've got to take this out on Tour and put it under some pressure. The next week was the George May Tournament in Chicago—and in those days he had two events, back to back. A big field of players competed the first week, and then the top 12 from that tournament went on to play for big money the following week. Well, I went up there and won both of them.[/size][/color][/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3][b]GOLF:[/b] What was that inspiration?[/size][/color][/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3][b]HOGAN:[/b] I'm not telling (smiling).[/size][/color][/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3][b]GOLF:[/b] Did it relate to one of the fundamentals in your book, "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf"?[/size][/color][/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3][b]HOGAN:[/b] Yes, it did.[/size][/color][/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3][b]GOLF:[/b] It was the part about pronation and supination, wasn't it?[/size][/color][/left]







[left][color=#000000][size=3]Read more: [url="http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/golf-magazine-interview-ben-hogan#ixzz1yGShhc3q"]http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/golf-magazine-interview-ben-hogan#ixzz1yGShhc3q[/url][/size][/color][/left]
Actually, now that I think about it, his talk about the grip reminds me of that Coleman video:

[color=#000000]That bit at the end about the grip - which starts at around 8:20 - and the right hand pushing the club along is great. Every time I go back to that simple swing thought, I strike some beautiful shots (for my ability level). This in turn, just reminded me of a wacky theory that came to me once while driving: the muscles along the outside and top of the forearms shouldn't be tense in the hitting area. Indeed, said muscles in the right forearm pull the hand into a nice hinged position in the backswing, so they shouldn't be excessively flexed and stiff. The theory I had was that the 'inside muscles' of the right forearm firing (through the hitting area) to release the hinge created in the back swing are balanced by an equal amount of pressure exerted by the same muscles in the left forearm. Feeling this resistance by the left forearm prevents that flippy extension of the left wrist; this allows the right hand to pronate and left hand to suppinate together. The theory wasn't this elaborate when it came to me. I was just messing around with my grip while keeping the steering wheel centered (traffic hazard). I went to the range and proceeded to have a surprisingly accurate session. However, I soon dismissed the theory, as it promotes too much 'rolling over' through the hitting area and snaps the clubface shut. 'counter intuitive to the pull hook I have trouble with. . . or maybe I just grooved that forearm action chipping and pitching.[/color] A fusion of this theory and Hogan's "right hand pushing the club along" work nicely for me.
This isn't what I think of the secret at all, though. I just started to babble there. I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to anatomy, but I really enjoy practicing and learning about the golf swing. So flame away and learn me somethin, Hoganites

Also, this is really the first active posting I've done after a lot of lurking in the classifieds section, and sometimes this forum. That said, [b]hello world! [/b](forum)
[/quote]

Is this an actual interview with Hogan? Are these his actual words. If so, nowwwwwwwww I see what the hype is all about regarding the 5 fundamentals book. Hmmm, I wonder how book sales would be doing if he hadn't mentioned anything about it relating to one of the fundamentals in the book hehe.

Welcome to the party K. There's an unwritten rule in Hogan's book that says you must post a few videos of your swing in this forum so all Hoganites have an idea of what the heck parts of Hogan's swing/theory you have built into your own swing.

We're lookin forward to your swing vids.

[k001k47]

Is this an actual interview with Hogan? Are these his actual words. If so, nowwwwwwwww I see what the hype is all about regarding the 5 fundamentals book. Hmmm, I wonder how book sales would be doing if he hadn't mentioned anything about it relating to one of the fundamentals in the book hehe.

 

Welcome to the party K. There's an unwritten rule in Hogan's book that says you must post a few videos of your swing in this forum so all Hoganites have an idea of what the heck parts of Hogan's swing/theory you have built into your own swing.

 

We're lookin forward to your swing vids. :)

 

 

Well, the interview took place well after the book was written, but Hogan might have said it for publicity; he was a heck of a business man after all. Although, I don't think it's as much of a publisher's money stunt as Tiger's How I Play golf -- which is an okay read. I wouldn't argue against the case that 5L could have listed the authors as Herbert Warren Wind with Hogan. From my understanding, the book was written by Wind under Hogans supervision using Hogan's notes; Hogan was devoting a lot of time to building his brand name at the time.

My thought about "the secret" is that it's between the lines of one paragraph I have in mind. :crazy:

 

Heh, I figured someone would want to see my hacker's excuse for a swing, so I recorded a bit of today's morning session. I'm self taught and a big (literally ... need to lay off the "beverages" :haha: ) hack. Here's a 3i and a couple of little wedges. There were a couple of nicer wedges after that, but the phone I was using ran out of battery (that's the little buzzing noise at the end of it):

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZbkOcb85_s[/media]

 

Bad camera angle aside. . .

What strikes me about the video is that my footwork is pretty sloppy. I wasn't really starting the transition to the downswing with that crucial move to the left foot, so it looks like (to me) that I never really get off of the right side... no wonder I was striking it fat. That first 3i was heavy (like me), but it striped my target. I should have just packed up and called it a day there. . . nothing like hitting a 3i stiff without having to take a mulligan. That stiff left to right wind was knocking even slightly heavy shots out of the sky, and the south tx 100+ heat index wasn't nice either. I wouldn't say I try to copy Hogan's swing position for position, but I do admire the dynamics of his swing, and they're a great example for anyone. Flame away, Hoganites! Who knows, maybe I'll learn a thing or two... or thousand :yahoo:

 

btw, sorry if it seems like I'm hijacking your thread, t. I'll read back some more, so I'm up to date with it and follow your progress. . . it really looks like you're putting a lot of work into this crazy game. best of luck!

[MizunoJoe]

Is this an actual interview with Hogan? Are these his actual words. If so, nowwwwwwwww I see what the hype is all about regarding the 5 fundamentals book. Hmmm, I wonder how book sales would be doing if he hadn't mentioned anything about it relating to one of the fundamentals in the book hehe.

 

Welcome to the party K. There's an unwritten rule in Hogan's book that says you must post a few videos of your swing in this forum so all Hoganites have an idea of what the heck parts of Hogan's swing/theory you have built into your own swing.

 

We're lookin forward to your swing vids. :)

 

 

Well, the interview took place well after the book was written, but Hogan might have said it for publicity; he was a heck of a business man after all. Although, I don't think it's as much of a publisher's money stunt as Tiger's How I Play golf -- which is an okay read. I wouldn't argue against the case that 5L could have listed the authors as Herbert Warren Wind with Hogan. From my understanding, the book was written by Wind under Hogans supervision using Hogan's notes; Hogan was devoting a lot of time to building his brand name at the time.

My thought about "the secret" is that it's between the lines of one paragraph I have in mind. :crazy:

 

Heh, I figured someone would want to see my hacker's excuse for a swing, so I recorded a bit of today's morning session. I'm self taught and a big (literally ... need to lay off the "beverages" :haha: ) hack. Here's a 3i and a couple of little wedges. There were a couple of nicer wedges after that, but the phone I was using ran out of battery (that's the little buzzing noise at the end of it):

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZbkOcb85_s[/media]

 

Bad camera angle aside. . .

What strikes me about the video is that my footwork is pretty sloppy. I wasn't really starting the transition to the downswing with that crucial move to the left foot, so it looks like (to me) that I never really get off of the right side... no wonder I was striking it fat. That first 3i was heavy (like me), but it striped my target. I should have just packed up and called it a day there. . . nothing like hitting a 3i stiff without having to take a mulligan. That stiff left to right wind was knocking even slightly heavy shots out of the sky, and the south tx 100+ heat index wasn't nice either. I wouldn't say I try to copy Hogan's swing position for position, but I do admire the dynamics of his swing, and they're a great example for anyone. Flame away, Hoganites! Who knows, maybe I'll learn a thing or two... or thousand :yahoo:

 

btw, sorry if it seems like I'm hijacking your thread, t. I'll read back some more, so I'm up to date with it and follow your progress. . . it really looks like you're putting a lot of work into this crazy game. best of luck!

 

You're too hard on yourself - I like your swing. It looks like the swing "slicefixer" teaches.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

 

Welcome to the party K. There's an unwritten rule in Hogan's book that says you must post a few videos of your swing in this forum so all Hoganites have an idea of what the heck parts of Hogan's swing/theory you have built into your own swing.

 

We're lookin forward to your swing vids. :)

 

 

Well, the interview took place well after the book was written, but Hogan might have said it for publicity; he was a heck of a business man after all. Although, I don't think it's as much of a publisher's money stunt as Tiger's How I Play golf -- which is an okay read. I wouldn't argue against the case that 5L could have listed the authors as Herbert Warren Wind with Hogan. From my understanding, the book was written by Wind under Hogans supervision using Hogan's notes; Hogan was devoting a lot of time to building his brand name at the time.

My thought about "the secret" is that it's between the lines of one paragraph I have in mind. :crazy:

 

Heh, I figured someone would want to see my hacker's excuse for a swing, so I recorded a bit of today's morning session. I'm self taught and a big (literally ... need to lay off the "beverages" :haha: ) hack. Here's a 3i and a couple of little wedges. There were a couple of nicer wedges after that, but the phone I was using ran out of battery (that's the little buzzing noise at the end of it):

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZbkOcb85_s[/media]

 

Bad camera angle aside. . .

What strikes me about the video is that my footwork is pretty sloppy. I wasn't really starting the transition to the downswing with that crucial move to the left foot, so it looks like (to me) that I never really get off of the right side... no wonder I was striking it fat. That first 3i was heavy (like me), but it striped my target. I should have just packed up and called it a day there. . . nothing like hitting a 3i stiff without having to take a mulligan. That stiff left to right wind was knocking even slightly heavy shots out of the sky, and the south tx 100+ heat index wasn't nice either. I wouldn't say I try to copy Hogan's swing position for position, but I do admire the dynamics of his swing, and they're a great example for anyone. Flame away, Hoganites! Who knows, maybe I'll learn a thing or two... or thousand :yahoo:

 

btw, sorry if it seems like I'm hijacking your thread, t. I'll read back some more, so I'm up to date with it and follow your progress. . . it really looks like you're putting a lot of work into this crazy game. best of luck!

 

You're too hard on yourself - I like your swing. It looks like the swing "slicefixer" teaches.

 

Way to go K! Looks like your swing is a work in progress just as the rest of ours is. The most impressive thing is that you have big enough golf balls to post it. I've run into so many guys that "talk" hogan and "talk" golf swing and tell us what is wrong with ours but they have fear in putting themselves out there cause their swing and movement will not live up to their talk.

 

Have fun learning the swing. You have a good foundation to start with. I recommend you read 5 lessons.

[svsvincenzo]

 

Well, the interview took place well after the book was written, but Hogan might have said it for publicity; he was a heck of a business man after all. Although, I don't think it's as much of a publisher's money stunt as Tiger's How I Play golf -- which is an okay read. I wouldn't argue against the case that 5L could have listed the authors as Herbert Warren Wind with Hogan. From my understanding, the book was written by Wind under Hogans supervision using Hogan's notes; Hogan was devoting a lot of time to building his brand name at the time.

My thought about "the secret" is that it's between the lines of one paragraph I have in mind. :crazy:

 

Heh, I figured someone would want to see my hacker's excuse for a swing, so I recorded a bit of today's morning session. I'm self taught and a big (literally ... need to lay off the "beverages" :haha: ) hack. Here's a 3i and a couple of little wedges. There were a couple of nicer wedges after that, but the phone I was using ran out of battery (that's the little buzzing noise at the end of it):

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZbkOcb85_s[/media]

 

Bad camera angle aside. . .

What strikes me about the video is that my footwork is pretty sloppy. I wasn't really starting the transition to the downswing with that crucial move to the left foot, so it looks like (to me) that I never really get off of the right side... no wonder I was striking it fat. That first 3i was heavy (like me), but it striped my target. I should have just packed up and called it a day there. . . nothing like hitting a 3i stiff without having to take a mulligan. That stiff left to right wind was knocking even slightly heavy shots out of the sky, and the south tx 100+ heat index wasn't nice either. I wouldn't say I try to copy Hogan's swing position for position, but I do admire the dynamics of his swing, and they're a great example for anyone. Flame away, Hoganites! Who knows, maybe I'll learn a thing or two... or thousand :yahoo:

 

btw, sorry if it seems like I'm hijacking your thread, t. I'll read back some more, so I'm up to date with it and follow your progress. . . it really looks like you're putting a lot of work into this crazy game. best of luck!

 

Nice swing K47. You CAN get Hogan. You have the indispensable.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1340147019' post='5131404']

Way to go K! Looks like your swing is a work in progress just as the rest of ours is. The most impressive thing is that you have big enough golf balls to post it. I've run into so many guys that "talk" hogan and "talk" golf swing and tell us what is wrong with ours but they have fear in putting themselves out there cause their swing and movement will not live up to their talk.

Have fun learning the swing. You have a good foundation to start with. I recommend you read 5 lessons.
[/quote]

Yes he does. You DON'T.

[tylerdurden]

Nice swing K47. I like through impact A LOT

BTW, PLEASE tell me that was a fart I heard at 1:24. THAT WOULD BE PRICELESS

[k001k47]

I won't think I have a decent golf swing until I can win a tournament. I'm obsessive compulsive about the things I like, usually in the sense that I'm never satisfied . It's a fine line between a gift and a burden because I beat myself up. You don't need to look good to win, though. I like how Graeme proves this: fella can get around tough courses. That wasn't a fart. It was the phone running out of battery, like I mentioned. Imagine that... my farts are louder than impact
It's great to study video. I had gotten away from it recently, but making a couple of small changes in a quick session this evening reminded me how good it is. Imagine how much better Hogan would have been if he had that camera he wished he had when he was young. I focused on visualizing my ds transition as a hybrid of Nicklaus' step and Hogans lateral shift. Shots felt crisper. Another thing I noticed watching just now, is that my first move away from the ball is a sort of dip, I'm thinking, in an effort to push the club into a wider arc. I've noticed this problem a lot in myself and always have to keep it under check. What I observe, is that the club pushes itself into an arc that would come across the ball and bottom out behind it. On the way down, if this isn't adjusted, shots will always be heavy. What I like to imagine is that, through the ball, the plane is very slightly arced. I focus on moving the clubhead along this very slight arc for the first foot or so (with the face square to the ball), then the rotation of the body and hips take care of the rest. (well...sort of) All have to worry about is creating a nice supple hinge and keeping that left wrist flat or slightly bowed. Insert 5L concept about hands pulling the shoulders, which pull the hips, etc. I struggle with starting the rotation right away; I try to add more arc. --->> I think this might or might not help you out a bit, tylerd. Your takeaway plane looks a lot better than mine, but something about it looks a little shaky to me...it could be camera angles, though. Give the concept a try, and if it does nothing for you, forget about it. I could be just talking a load of bs 'don't want to seem pushy. I'm really talking up to you, since you've reported being a better player than I am. I really like to visualize, then (try to) execute lines in the impact area << Now, coming through the ball, I sort of subconsciously eliminate that arc because I'm afraid of that nasty snap hook, and it just does the opposite at times and leaves the face wide open. I'm working on getting the body through more efficiently to (try to) eliminate that hook for good. Alright, I'm babbling again, but those are the things I'm going to work on. Please feel free to add anything I should add to the list, besides losing weight. heh heh

EDIT: Also, I do pull out my copy of Five Lessons every now and then. It's amazing how long these fundamentals have remained relevant.

[k001k47]

Also, thanks for the nice words. Although, I expect some harsh ones to balance them out. Now, about that secret...

[TEConnor]

Is this an actual interview with Hogan? Are these his actual words. If so, nowwwwwwwww I see what the hype is all about regarding the 5 fundamentals book. Hmmm, I wonder how book sales would be doing if he hadn't mentioned anything about it relating to one of the fundamentals in the book hehe.

 

Welcome to the party K. There's an unwritten rule in Hogan's book that says you must post a few videos of your swing in this forum so all Hoganites have an idea of what the heck parts of Hogan's swing/theory you have built into your own swing.

 

We're lookin forward to your swing vids. :)

 

 

Well, the interview took place well after the book was written, but Hogan might have said it for publicity; he was a heck of a business man after all. Although, I don't think it's as much of a publisher's money stunt as Tiger's How I Play golf -- which is an okay read. I wouldn't argue against the case that 5L could have listed the authors as Herbert Warren Wind with Hogan. From my understanding, the book was written by Wind under Hogans supervision using Hogan's notes; Hogan was devoting a lot of time to building his brand name at the time.

My thought about "the secret" is that it's between the lines of one paragraph I have in mind. :crazy:

 

Heh, I figured someone would want to see my hacker's excuse for a swing, so I recorded a bit of today's morning session. I'm self taught and a big (literally ... need to lay off the "beverages" :haha: ) hack. Here's a 3i and a couple of little wedges. There were a couple of nicer wedges after that, but the phone I was using ran out of battery (that's the little buzzing noise at the end of it):

[snip]

 

Bad camera angle aside. . .

What strikes me about the video is that my footwork is pretty sloppy. I wasn't really starting the transition to the downswing with that crucial move to the left foot, so it looks like (to me) that I never really get off of the right side... no wonder I was striking it fat. That first 3i was heavy (like me), but it striped my target. I should have just packed up and called it a day there. . . nothing like hitting a 3i stiff without having to take a mulligan. That stiff left to right wind was knocking even slightly heavy shots out of the sky, and the south tx 100+ heat index wasn't nice either. I wouldn't say I try to copy Hogan's swing position for position, but I do admire the dynamics of his swing, and they're a great example for anyone. Flame away, Hoganites! Who knows, maybe I'll learn a thing or two... or thousand :yahoo:

 

btw, sorry if it seems like I'm hijacking your thread, t. I'll read back some more, so I'm up to date with it and follow your progress. . . it really looks like you're putting a lot of work into this crazy game. best of luck!

 

You're too hard on yourself - I like your swing. It looks like the swing "slicefixer" teaches.

 

k001k47, I like you so please take this as more of a response to the post by Mizuno Joe re: Slicefixer (aka Geoff Jones) teaching. To say that k001k47's swing looks like a slicefixer swing is to say that VJ Singh looks like Hunter Mahan. I am impressed with k001k47's backswing and turn, especially for being self taught. However, the essence of Geoff's theory is that from hip-high to hip-high through impact one gets quickly to the left pivot point, one never stalls the pivot, one attacks with a leveraged (ie, bent) right arm and wrist, the handle of the club turns a "corner" on an arc, and the clubhead enters and exits on an arc (ie, is very square to the arc for a long time). I won't belabor the issues here, but koo1k47 definitely does not do most of these keys...looks like a noticeable hang back on the right side, a very strong and early "cross-over" release, a noticeable pivot stall around impact, and down-the-line chase. The money shot for a Slicefixer style swing would be several frames just after impact. At this point for a Slicefixer technique, the right elbow is very near to the right hip (not the case above), the right arm and right wrist are flexed (ie, leveraged in Geoff terms...also not the case above), the handle of the club and right arm would look like 12:20 on an analog clock (koo1k47 very much is an example of a cross-over release with the clock at 12:40), the handle would start to rotate around start turning the corner (ie, disappearing out of sight...unlike above where the handle inverts and points back at the camera), and the clubhead would be following a shallow arc back and to the inside of the target line (what some call, low and left...unlike above where the clubhead chases out and down-the-line). Despite the impressive self-taught backswing tendencies of k001k47, the overall swing is not Slicefixer in its essence.

 

Cheers,

Tim

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1340111676' post='5127358']
I don't believe in a secret anymore. He just did everything perfectly.
[/quote]

Awww cmon TD. Dont say that lol.

[k001k47]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1340198208' post='5134570']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1340111676' post='5127358']
I don't believe in a secret anymore. He just did everything perfectly.
[/quote]

Awww cmon TD. Dont say that lol.
[/quote]

I don't know the secret, but I'm convinced I know [i]about[/i] it.

I'm not familiar with slicefixer and the swing he advocates, but if it fixes slices like his sn suggests, then I'd imagine I swing nothing like it. A good deal of my tendencies were developed as a subconscious effort to avoid a nasty hook. I'm starting to understand what causes that pull hook and my game has been steadily improving. I've even started to hit reliable fades recently, and get hook spin without it being an accident.

[ej002]

Slicefixer should really be called Hookfixer.

[k001k47]

Ah, then I should lookm into it more. I agree with g10 about hanging back and releasing early. I belive those two are a big culprit forthe hook, because I have to rely on throwing the hands to save from hitting it fat. Throw in the tendancy to throw my right shoulder over the plane and I'm ob left all day. I think once I get the lower and upper body through better, I can get into that more powerful slicefixer-esque position through the ball. But I'll worry about that when I get there. first thing's first... gotta start from the ground up

[ej002]

If you look at your half wedge swings, they are pretty nice. THe full length longer iron is where the hangback stall and cross over come in.

[Smash Factors]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1340111676' post='5127358']
I don't believe in a secret anymore. He just did everything perfectly.
[/quote]

What it all boils down to is that Hogan's swing is not something that we should try to copy (Or teach).

Not likely you will find an instructor who's approach is to get his students swinging just like Hogan.

Look at Hogans swing. Is it orthodox? The answer is no; it goes against many basic swing fundamentals.

Does Hogan have good tempo? No, he does not. It is a very fast and choppy swing. Put a Medicus in Hogans hand and he would not be able to swing it. Wayyyy too fast in the back-swing.

Look at his swing plane. It's very shallow and to some extent laid-off. Is that how we want to be swinging? With the left arm low and below the right shoulder at the top of the swing?

Look at the similarity between his driver swing and iron swing. They are almost identical. This is not typical. The driver swing is usually very different from irons. Again, Hogan goes against the grain here by swinging all clubs the same.

Look at this video and tell me the difference between driver and iron swings.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSAAvhukTiE[/youtube]

The short of it is that Hogan's swing worked for him, but it does not work for everyone.

So, to say that he did everything perfect is really not accurate. It is a swing that worked for him. He applied basic fundamentals: Posture, grip, alignment, ball position, waggle, follow-through, etc....but had his own way of putting it all together. It's not a swing that you should carbon-copy. Take his concepts and put them into your own swing.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1340210363' post='5135912']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1340111676' post='5127358']
I don't believe in a secret anymore. He just did everything perfectly.
[/quote]

What it all boils down to is that Hogan's swing is not something that we should try to copy (Or teach).

Not likely you will find an instructor who's approach is to get his students swinging just like Hogan.

Look at Hogans swing. Is it orthodox? The answer is no; it goes against many basic swing fundamentals.

Does Hogan have good tempo? No, he does not. It is a very fast and choppy swing. Put a Medicus in Hogans hand and he would not be able to swing it. Wayyyy too fast in the back-swing.

Look at his swing plane. It's very shallow and to some extent laid-off. Is that how we want to be swinging? With the left arm low and below the right shoulder at the top of the swing?

Look at the similarity between his driver swing and iron swing. They are almost identical. This is not typical. The driver swing is usually very different from irons. Again, Hogan goes against the grain here by swinging all clubs the same.

Look at this video and tell me the difference between driver and iron swings.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSAAvhukTiE[/youtube]

The short of it is that Hogan's swing worked for him, but it does not work for everyone.

So, to say that he did everything perfect is really not accurate. It is a swing that worked for him. He applied basic fundamentals: Posture, grip, alignment, ball position, waggle, follow-through, etc....but had his own way of putting it all together. It's not a swing that you should carbon-copy. Take his concepts and put them into your own swing.
[/quote]

So why are you posting here then? You not figuring it out doesn't mean it's not for everyone...

If you study Hogan's history and see why people study him, you would search for it as well...

And you have to have OCD by the way...lol

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1340210363' post='5135912']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1340111676' post='5127358']
I don't believe in a secret anymore. He just did everything perfectly.
[/quote]

What it all boils down to is that Hogan's swing is not something that we should try to copy (Or teach).

Not likely you will find an instructor who's approach is to get his students swinging just like Hogan.

Look at Hogans swing. Is it orthodox? The answer is no; it goes against many basic swing fundamentals.

Does Hogan have good tempo? No, he does not. It is a very fast and choppy swing. Put a Medicus in Hogans hand and he would not be able to swing it. Wayyyy too fast in the back-swing.

Look at his swing plane. It's very shallow and to some extent laid-off. Is that how we want to be swinging? With the left arm low and below the right shoulder at the top of the swing?

Look at the similarity between his driver swing and iron swing. They are almost identical. This is not typical. The driver swing is usually very different from irons. Again, Hogan goes against the grain here by swinging all clubs the same.

Look at this video and tell me the difference between driver and iron swings.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSAAvhukTiE[/media]

The short of it is that Hogan's swing worked for him, but it does not work for everyone.

So, to say that he did everything perfect is really not accurate. It is a swing that worked for him. He applied basic fundamentals: Posture, grip, alignment, ball position, waggle, follow-through, etc....but had his own way of putting it all together. It's not a swing that you should carbon-copy. Take his concepts and put them into your own swing.
[/quote]

Nope. Hogan's swing is perfect (or as close to it as anyone has come). Anyone that doesn't agree with that doesn't understand much about it IMO.

[Smash Factors]

[quote name='svsvincenzo' timestamp='1340212017' post='5136078']
[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1340210363' post='5135912']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1340111676' post='5127358']
I don't believe in a secret anymore. He just did everything perfectly.
[/quote]

What it all boils down to is that Hogan's swing is not something that we should try to copy (Or teach).

Not likely you will find an instructor who's approach is to get his students swinging just like Hogan.

Look at Hogans swing. Is it orthodox? The answer is no; it goes against many basic swing fundamentals.

Does Hogan have good tempo? No, he does not. It is a very fast and choppy swing. Put a Medicus in Hogans hand and he would not be able to swing it. Wayyyy too fast in the back-swing.

Look at his swing plane. It's very shallow and to some extent laid-off. Is that how we want to be swinging? With the left arm low and below the right shoulder at the top of the swing?

Look at the similarity between his driver swing and iron swing. They are almost identical. This is not typical. The driver swing is usually very different from irons. Again, Hogan goes against the grain here by swinging all clubs the same.

Look at this video and tell me the difference between driver and iron swings.

The short of it is that Hogan's swing worked for him, but it does not work for everyone.

So, to say that he did everything perfect is really not accurate. It is a swing that worked for him. He applied basic fundamentals: Posture, grip, alignment, ball position, waggle, follow-through, etc....but had his own way of putting it all together. It's not a swing that you should carbon-copy. Take his concepts and put them into your own swing.
[/quote]

So why are you posting here then? You not figuring it out doesn't mean it's not for everyone...

If you study Hogan's history and see why people study him, you would search for it as well...

And you have to have OCD by the way...lol
[/quote]

I was responding to the statement that Hogan did everything perfectly. Obviously, that's not the case.

Even if someone did figure out the so-called "Secret", this does not mean that Hogans swing will work for everyone. The "Secret" might improve your game, but that doesnt mean that we should all go out and attempt to copy Hogan's swing.

[svsvincenzo]

Nope, its for everyone. His swing mechanics in every aspect of it has a reason and is the most efficient way to do it, regardless of age. Nothing in it is inappropriate for anybody.

And I dare you point out one...

Did you know how many legends and howany Tour players used his swing basics? So I guess Nicklaus was wrong..and Tiger...and Player...and Arnie...and Bolt...Mac...chit who else...lol Hoganites pls help me here...lol

[SwingNV]

[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1340210363' post='5135912']

Does Hogan have good tempo? No, he does not. It is a very fast and choppy swing. Put a Medicus in Hogans hand and he would not be able to swing it. Wayyyy too fast in the back-swing.

[/quote]

Yup you are right, just take a look at how fast his backswing is here...oh and the tempo is horribly choppy...lmao

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWLLPKiSMRk&feature=player_detailpage#t=177s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWLLPKiSMRk&feature=player_detailpage#t=177s[/url]

[Smash Factors]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1340212370' post='5136118']

Nope. Hogan's swing is perfect (or as close to it as anyone has come). Anyone that doesn't agree with that doesn't understand much about it IMO.
[/quote]

If that were the case, then golf instructors would be teaching their students to use a shallow back-swing with [b][u]all[/u][/b] clubs and have poor tempo.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Hogan's swing is not perfect; it worked perfectly for him.

If you want to see someone with a virtually flawless swing, you should be looking at Adam Scott. Now there's a swing that should be taught.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK9TKuAb4Gg[/youtube]

[Smash Factors]

[quote name='SwingNV' timestamp='1340213178' post='5136190']
[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1340210363' post='5135912']
Does Hogan have good tempo? No, he does not. It is a very fast and choppy swing. Put a Medicus in Hogans hand and he would not be able to swing it. Wayyyy too fast in the back-swing.

[/quote]

Yup you are right, just take a look at how fast his backswing is here...oh and the tempo is horribly choppy...lmao

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWLLPKiSMRk&feature=player_detailpage#t=177s[/media]
[/quote]

Awful example. Video is in slow motion.

[Dr.John]

[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1340215820' post='5136504']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1340212370' post='5136118']
Nope. Hogan's swing is perfect (or as close to it as anyone has come). Anyone that doesn't agree with that doesn't understand much about it IMO.
[/quote]

If that were the case, then golf instructors would be teaching their students to use a shallow back-swing with [b][u]all[/u][/b] clubs and have poor tempo.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Hogan's swing is not perfect; it worked perfectly for him.

If you want to see someone with a virtually flawless swing, you should be looking at Adam Scott. Now there's a swing that should be taught.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK9TKuAb4Gg[/media]
[/quote]

Poor tempo?? Only the best ball striker of all time. Couldn't have acheived that with poor tempo.

[k001k47]

I think Hogan adjusted his tempo for the different shots he played. He mentions in 5L that the waggle - which reflects the swing - reflects the shot. Perhaps he's trying to play the low boring shots with those quick swings. . .
I've also noticed that older swing videos tend to appear inconsistent with frame rate and speed. It's more apparent when there's walking involved, and everyone seems to hobble around at an awkwardly quick rate. Hogan had a 2/4 tempo in his swing: where the backswing takes up the entire first count (1 and), and the transition down to impact takes the first half of the second count and the follow through is the up beat. This is probably why his tempo looks so quick, but it is still an even tempo. I always tell myself to swing as quick or slow as you like, just keep that tempo even. I like a 6/8 'waltz' feel: (back) 1 2 3(load, transition) 4(impact going into 4) 5 6. I've had trouble rushing the transition, and 6/8 tempo helps with that. Nicklaus's and Tiger's 2000 and earlier swings (he still has a nice tempo to this day, but the earlier ones seem to have a nicer flow to them) are models I like for this tempo. Sorry if that didn't make much sense to those who don't know some music theory.


Since nobody is curious about the secret from me I'll just come out with it. Maybe it's because I tend to babble in forums and lack that quiet, mysterious mien I have in person.
I see it between the lines of this paragraph from lesson 4: (I don't own the book. 'all respects to the publishers and authors)

[indent=2]As I explain to my audiences at golf clinics, the correct hitting motion is one unbroken thrust from the beginning of the downswing to the end of the follow-through. I point out also that I think of only two things: starting the hips back and then hitting just as hard as I can with the upper part of my body, my arms and my hands, in that order. When I expound this one-piece hit-through action, I generally experience to main types of reactions from the members of a clinic audience. The first is a kind of polite skepticism which might be put into words like this: "I bet there's more to it. Nothing could be that simple. There has to be more conscious technique at impact. That's the inside dope which the pros never tell us outsiders." The second type of reaction is sort of a misguided cynicism which might go something like this: "Sure, if you're a pro and have practically eaten your lunch on the practice tee for 20 years, then, maybe, everything has become so second nature that you don't have to think of anything but hitting through with all your beef. Hogan's explanation of what he does is O.K. for Hogan, but it will probably do us average golfers as much good as if Bob Richards were to tell us that pole-vaulting [...] I can understand these reactions but they are simply not accurate reflections of the facts. I would not be undertaking these lessons, for example, if I were not genuinely convinced that the average golfer has the requisite physical ability to use the same methods fundamentally that all the top golfers use. The average golfer's problem is not so much a lack of ability as it is a lack of knowing what he should do.



[/indent]
The secret is something fabricated by the media and public. I think Hogan had some fun with us and that whole secret thing everyone went on about. Maybe he still has a little laugh with himself from the grave knowing that people still talk about his secret to this day.

[SwingNV]

[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1340216656' post='5136634']
[quote name='SwingNV' timestamp='1340213178' post='5136190']
[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1340210363' post='5135912']
Does Hogan have good tempo? No, he does not. It is a very fast and choppy swing. Put a Medicus in Hogans hand and he would not be able to swing it. Wayyyy too fast in the back-swing.

[/quote]

Yup you are right, just take a look at how fast his backswing is here...oh and the tempo is horribly choppy...lmao

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWLLPKiSMRk&feature=player_detailpage#t=177s[/media]
[/quote]

Awful example. Video is in slow motion.
[/quote]

Watch the people in the background...not in slow motion. But some other footage is definitely in fast motion that's for sure.

Hogan SWUNG the club from the get go. His "backswing speed" varied upon how much inertia he initiated the swing with. The harder he wanted to hit a drive, the faster the backswing appeared because the swing was initaited with more energy. Hacks have a constant slow backswing because they are carrying the club. There was no takeway per se in Hogan's motion. It is a swing from the start. That's why those pitch shots are so soft and feathery in the Mexico footage...he didn't energize the swing as hard.

[hoganfan924]

Some people simply don't understand, don't want to understand and therefore never will. It is a waste of time to try and convince them.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='Steve Ryan' timestamp='1340215820' post='5136504']
If that were the case, then golf instructors would be teaching their students to use a shallow back-swing with [b][u]all[/u][/b] clubs and have poor tempo.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Hogan's swing is not perfect; it worked perfectly for him.

If you want to see someone with a virtually flawless swing, you should be looking at Adam Scott. Now there's a swing that should be taught.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK9TKuAb4Gg[/media]
[/quote]

Good instructors do teach Hogan - Slicefixer and Foley to name two.

But I am honestly embarassed for you that you suggested people study Adam Scott over Hogan. That's just nonsense. Stop drinking Kool-Aid and listening to The Golf Channel hacks. You might learn something.