Tiger's Press Conference....

[SheriffBooth]

Really? A thread about a question at a press conference had to devolve into another Tiger v. Jack debate?

[ethanlculver]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1341206555' post='5202384']
Tiger is NOT the best player ever by his own admission. Tiger said that Jack Nicklaus is the best player ever because he (Jack), has won 18 majors. Those are Tiger's own words. If you disagree, you'll have to take it up with Tiger.
[/quote]

I think Tiger says that to avoid criticism. He knows he is the GOAT already, and he knows he will pass the record.

Only looking at the majors to see who the GOAT is the equivalent of only looking at the Daytona 500 and Coca-Cola 600 in NASCAR, seeing who has won the most of those, and declaring them the greatest racer of all-time. Not logical. We look at overall wins.

[KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE]

20 / 100 in the clubhouse for all the world to try and beat.

[mich750]

[quote name='MrElculver2424' timestamp='1341263003' post='5206100']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1341206555' post='5202384']
Tiger is NOT the best player ever by his own admission. Tiger said that Jack Nicklaus is the best player ever because he (Jack), has won 18 majors. Those are Tiger's own words. If you disagree, you'll have to take it up with Tiger.
[/quote]

I think Tiger says that to avoid criticism. He knows he is the GOAT already, and he knows he will pass the record.

Only looking at the majors to see who the GOAT is the equivalent of only looking at the Daytona 500 and Coca-Cola 600 in NASCAR, seeing who has won the most of those, and declaring them the greatest racer of all-time. Not logical. We look at overall wins.
[/quote]


Great Post!

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1341206555' post='5202384']
Tiger is NOT the best player ever by his own admission. Tiger said that Jack Nicklaus is the best player ever because he (Jack), has won 18 majors. Those are Tiger's own words. If you disagree, you'll have to take it up with Tiger.
[/quote]

Anyone who understands anything about human nature would say the same thing.

If Tiger were to say that "I'm the best player who ever played this game"...the level of OUTRAGE that would come pouring from the golf world at his "arrogance" and "disrespect for Jack" would register on the [i]Richter Scale. [/i]

But the fact of the matter, is that anyone who looks at the two men's careers critically and objectively reaches that conclusion. Tiger has won more tournmanets, at a younger age, against deeper fields than has Jack. Jack tried to hold onto the notion that he had to contend with "better" (at winning majors) competitiors...but even he gave that up after playing for 2 days with Tiger (at the height of his powers) in the 2000 PGA Championship.

I suspect, that Jack (having seen that this kid could do things with a golf ball that even he couldn't in his prime) finally realized what the golf world was being confronted with.

Whether Tiger will match the sort of longevity that Jack had..and beat that record of 18 majors...remains to be seen. But trust me, EVERY other record in this sport will be Tigers (or will have been owned by him at some point) before he's done playing.

[TheDarkOne]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1341329219' post='5210326']
But the fact of the matter, is that [b]anyone who looks at the two men's careers critically and objectively reaches that conclusion.[/b] Tiger has won more tournmanets, at a younger age, against deeper fields than has Jack. Jack tried to hold onto the notion that he had to contend with "better" (at winning majors) competitiors...but even he gave that up after playing for 2 days with Tiger (at the height of his powers) in the 2000 PGA Championship.
[/quote]

So by your statement above, anyone who thinks Jack is the best because he won more Majors is not being critical and isn't being object correct? I want to make sure I understand you 100% before I respond.
Also, is Sam Snead a better player than Jack? If no, why not?

[deasy55]

[quote name='MrElculver2424' timestamp='1341263003' post='5206100']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1341206555' post='5202384']
Tiger is NOT the best player ever by his own admission. Tiger said that Jack Nicklaus is the best player ever because he (Jack), has won 18 majors. Those are Tiger's own words. If you disagree, you'll have to take it up with Tiger.
[/quote]

I think Tiger says that to avoid criticism. He knows he is the GOAT already, and he knows he will pass the record.

Only looking at the majors to see who the GOAT is the equivalent of only looking at the Daytona 500 and Coca-Cola 600 in NASCAR, seeing who has won the most of those, and declaring them the greatest racer of all-time. Not logical. We look at overall wins.
[/quote]

So Snead is the GOAT then?

[DieHard519]

Some people here have no perspective. Past, present and future are totally different things and I think it is VERY hard to compare any of these three (Sam, Tiger & Jack) in the same light. Each of them had different competitors, different styles, different course setups, different equipment, different training, different mindset and different scrutiny.

With that said, it's obvious who the GOAT is..........

[rustyputterguy]

[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1341333423' post='5210776']
So Snead is the GOAT then?
[/quote]
Please, try to keep up. If you're comparing Jack and Tiger, total # of wins is more important. If you're comparing Snead and Tiger, total # of majors is more important.

[deasy55]

[quote name='rustyputterguy' timestamp='1341334362' post='5210844']
[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1341333423' post='5210776']
So Snead is the GOAT then?
[/quote]
Please, try to keep up. If you're comparing Jack and Tiger, total # of wins is more important. If you're comparing Snead and Tiger, total # of majors is more important.

[/quote]

That is what it looks like alright. Pretty hilarious, isn't it?

Some people go way over the top in their obsessions on here

[ethanlculver]

[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1341333423' post='5210776']
[quote name='MrElculver2424' timestamp='1341263003' post='5206100']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1341206555' post='5202384']
Tiger is NOT the best player ever by his own admission. Tiger said that Jack Nicklaus is the best player ever because he (Jack), has won 18 majors. Those are Tiger's own words. If you disagree, you'll have to take it up with Tiger.
[/quote]

I think Tiger says that to avoid criticism. He knows he is the GOAT already, and he knows he will pass the record.

Only looking at the majors to see who the GOAT is the equivalent of only looking at the Daytona 500 and Coca-Cola 600 in NASCAR, seeing who has won the most of those, and declaring them the greatest racer of all-time. Not logical. We look at overall wins.
[/quote]

So Snead is the GOAT then?
[/quote]

Nope, you misunderstood once again, but if that's your opinion, so be it.

When I said "overall wins", referring to NASCAR, what I meant in golf was to look at ALL tournaments, regular and major tournaments. And then the winning % is pretty important in there too, so I should have mentioned that a second time so you wouldn't be confused. I didn't realize it was necessary to say that again after I said it earlier in the thread.

When you look at [b]all[/b] those things, not [b]only[/b] majors or [b]only[/b] regular tournaments, it's quite clear who the GOAT is.

Woods has won more tournaments than Jack at a much younger age, and has been winning at a rate much greater than Snead, who took 25 years to win 82 tournaments. The data is there to show you who is the GOAT, but of course there will still be different opinions.

[deasy55]

[quote name='MrElculver2424' timestamp='1341337689' post='5211198']
[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1341333423' post='5210776']
[quote name='MrElculver2424' timestamp='1341263003' post='5206100']
I think Tiger says that to avoid criticism. He knows he is the GOAT already, and he knows he will pass the record.

Only looking at the majors to see who the GOAT is the equivalent of only looking at the Daytona 500 and Coca-Cola 600 in NASCAR, seeing who has won the most of those, and declaring them the greatest racer of all-time. Not logical. We look at overall wins.
[/quote]

So Snead is the GOAT then?
[/quote]

Nope, you misunderstood once again, but if that's your opinion, so be it.

When I've been saying "overall wins", what I am referring to is looking at ALL tournaments, regular and major tournaments combined. And then the winning % is pretty important in there too, so I should have mentioned that a second time so you wouldn't be confused. I didn't realize it was necessary to say that again after I said it earlier in the thread.

When you look at [b]all[/b] those things, not [b]only[/b] majors or [b]only[/b] regular tournaments, it's quite clear who the GOAT is.

My point was that you shouldn't just look at most major wins to determine who the best ever is. That is not logical.
[/quote]

So Tiger has [b]1 extra tour win[/b], so that makes him better? The fact that Jack has [b]4 more majors [/b]is irrelevant? That [b]1 little tour win is what does it? Right.....[/b]

I agree with you, right now it is very clear who the GOAT is.


On an added note, Tiger's win percentage will drop by a large amount if he plays events into his 60s, just as Jacks percentage dropped.


You are completely blinded with your obsession. I know you are young, but calm it down a bit. He's just a regular guy that's good at hitting a ball with a stick.

[ethanlculver]

[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1341338337' post='5211272']
So Tiger has [b]1 extra tour win[/b], so that makes him better? The fact that Jack has [b]4 more majors [/b]is irrelevant? That [b]1 little tour win is what does it? Right.....[/b]

I agree with you, right now it is very clear who the GOAT is.

On an added note, Tiger's win percentage will drop by a large amount if he plays events into his 60s, just as Jacks percentage dropped.

You are completely blinded with your obsession. I know you are young, but calm it down a bit. He's just a regular guy that's good at hitting a ball with a stick.
[/quote]

That is not what I said at ALL, but please carry on attempting to refute the data. It's there. I certainly don't do the best job explaining it, but you shouldn't be looking to me for the evidence.

[b]"A regular guy [who's] good at hitting a ball with a stick."[/b]

[deasy55]

[quote name='MrElculver2424' timestamp='1341338643' post='5211304']
That is not what I said at ALL. Like I said, the data is there. I certainly don't do the best job explaining it, but you shouldn't be looking to me for the evidence. "A regular guy [who's] good at hitting a ball with a stick." lol, What a joke.
[/quote]

The data is there indeed. And it competely conflicts with your fanatics. But whatever.


[quote name='MrElculver2424' timestamp='1341338643' post='5211304']
"A regular guy [who's] good at hitting a ball with a stick." lol, What a joke.
[/quote]

What do you mean? That's what all pro golfers are. They are no different from the rest of us except for that. You seem to think of Tiger as some sort of hero or god, when he is just a guy hitting a ball into a hole.

Your obsession has gone too far. You seem to be living vicariously through his life. I know you are young, but you're not that young.

[ethanlculver]

[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1341339280' post='5211368']
The data is there indeed. And it competely conflicts with your fanatics. But whatever.
[/quote]

Show me this "conflicting" data, please, in a PM, so this thread doesn't get even more off topic than it already is. And don't forget to include more than just wins and major wins.

[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1341339280' post='5211368']
What do you mean? That's what all pro golfers are. They are no different from the rest of us except for that. You seem to think of Tiger as some sort of hero or god, when he is just a guy hitting a ball into a hole.
Your obsession has gone too far. You seem to be living vicariously through his life. I know you are young, but you're not that young.
[/quote]

You are just very silly. You do not know me at all, so your assumption that I think of TW as a hero or god is foolish. And I'm certainly not living vicariously through his life.

You are wrong, but please, keep it up if it for some reason makes you feel proud of yourself to point out false issues with other people.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1341335288' post='5210938']
[quote name='rustyputterguy' timestamp='1341334362' post='5210844']
[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1341333423' post='5210776']
So Snead is the GOAT then?
[/quote]
Please, try to keep up. If you're comparing Jack and Tiger, total # of wins is more important. If you're comparing Snead and Tiger, total # of majors is more important.

[/quote]

That is what it looks like alright. Pretty hilarious, isn't it?

Some people go way over the top in their obsessions on here
[/quote]

And you go running around chasing and arguing with those whom you feel are obsessed?

[deasy55]

I can't be bothered saying anymore. The obsession has been pointed out enough times to you already by numerous posters. If you are still denying it then it just shows an unbiased discussion is completely out of the equation. I'm not going to PM you either, as you would be the same there.

[ncgolf]

[quote name='SheriffBooth' timestamp='1341262440' post='5206040']
Really? A thread about a question at a press conference had to devolve into another Tiger v. Jack debate?
[/quote]

[Pepperturbo]

Tigers demeanor and facial expressions appeared different from the past; almost reflecting what's really there... especially his last comment. Even though he might win more tournaments, and will have moments of golf brilliance, he's not worth knowing or having in my ideal four some.

[Wood511]

He's very serious now. And even when he wants to joke around, it's in a d1ckish way. I watched a bit of the press conference today at Greenbriar and it was more of the same from him.

He was asked about his divisor being 40 as it relates to his OWGR and if he wanted to play more tourneys to raise his ranking. His response "No." When asked if it mattered to him what his world golf ranking was... "No"...then... "I can do math".

That contributes to reporters asking him awkward and probing questions, because he screws them with the softballs they throw.

[Ty_Webb]

[quote name='Wood511' timestamp='1341343945' post='5211776']
He's very serious now. And even when he wants to joke around, it's in a d1ckish way. I watched a bit of the press conference today at Greenbriar and it was more of the same from him.

He was asked about his divisor being 40 as it relates to his OWGR and if he wanted to play more tourneys to raise his ranking. His response "No." When asked if it mattered to him what his world golf ranking was... "No"...then... "I can do math".

That contributes to reporters asking him awkward and probing questions, because he screws them with the softballs they throw.
[/quote]

What would you like him to say?

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1341341959' post='5211630']
Tigers demeanor and facial expressions appeared different from the past; almost reflecting what's really there... especially his last comment. Even though he might win more tournaments, and will have moments of golf brilliance, he's not worth knowing or having in my ideal four some.
[/quote]

I like that you state what is on your mind and just say you basically don't like him.

As opposed to those who seem so concerned with the "unhealthy obsession" of people who are big tiger fans but then claim that THEY are indifferent toward him and "could care less".

You seem to know a bit about behavior, what is your take on that?

[Playaway]

[quote name='Redman' timestamp='1341205020' post='5202304']
He's won 3 of his last 7. This could turn into his best winning percentage yet. Can't wait to see the rest of this season. As good as he's hitting the stinger and his irons I foresee a dominating performance at Royal Lytham.
[/quote]

If his toughest competition at Lytham is Bo Van Pelt, I would agree. Course if the wind blows Tiger has little chance, IMO. His Open Championship wins came on very calm Open Championships.

[Wood511]

[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1341345345' post='5211926']
[quote name='Wood511' timestamp='1341343945' post='5211776']
He's very serious now. And even when he wants to joke around, it's in a d1ckish way. I watched a bit of the press conference today at Greenbriar and it was more of the same from him.

He was asked about his divisor being 40 as it relates to his OWGR and if he wanted to play more tourneys to raise his ranking. His response "No." When asked if it mattered to him what his world golf ranking was... "No"...then... "I can do math".

That contributes to reporters asking him awkward and probing questions, because he screws them with the softballs they throw.
[/quote]

What would you like him to say?
[/quote]

I'd like a normal answer. Think about what almost any other pro golfer would say...like Furyk or Phil.

How about... "While I recognize the importance of OWGR and certainly it would be great to be #1 in the world, I have a lot of commitments and obligations in my life right now. My kids, my game, my charities and many contracted appearances at various events keep me from playing as many venues as I would like. In order to be the best I can be, I have found that I need to maintain that balance in my life. I want to try and win every single event that I play and hopefully the rankings will take care of themselves."

It's only a burden because he makes it a burden.

Having a career like his should be a joyous, wonderful experience comparable to nothing in the world. Sadly, it appears as if he is not enjoying it at all.

[stevesnis]

"I'd like a normal answer. Think about what almost any other pro golfer would say...like Furyk or Phil" Can't win for losing. People constantly complain that Tiger's a robot who only spouts what is written for him and speaks in cliches etc etc. Now you WANT him to say what every other pro golfer would say??? Can't have it both ways.

[RacineBoxer]

There's no doubt Tiger is winning more & faster than Jack did, that's not debatable. And it's not like we're talking about 2-3 years of great golf like Johnny Miller had, we're talking 17 years for Tiger.

So the only thing that Jack has on Tiger is longevity. And for Tiger that question hasn't been answered yet. There's still the possibility that Tiger plays great golf for another 10+ years and beats Jack's major record by 5 or more.

Tiger breaking Jack's major record is really only a matter of time.

[lumberman2462]

Amazing how quickly this thread went off topic.....

[spilbellman]

[quote name='Redman' timestamp='1341205020' post='5202304']
He's won 3 of his last 7. This could turn into his best winning percentage yet. Can't wait to see the rest of this season. As good as he's hitting the stinger and his irons I foresee a dominating performance at Royal Lytham.
[/quote]
Redman,
Not contesting your assertation as to winning percentage, but some research into Hogan's 1951 thru 1954 years may rival Tiger's win percentage. If I recall, I think he only played 6 to 8 enets a year, due to the damage that the bus accident caused.

[spitfisher]

So when will the topic of the true number of wins that Sam Snead has come up, in regard to the record?

What?

Because of poor record keeping and no true archive of press and results, there is a strong indication that sam has well over 100 wins, some say over 110 back in the day. My guess this subject will be come more and more popular.

John Finestein, love him or hate him will likely dig and investigate a true number, tiger would likely prefer the 82 wins.

[rustyputterguy]

[quote name='spitfisher' timestamp='1341411628' post='5215696']
So when will the topic of the true number of wins that Sam Snead has come up, in regard to the record?

What?

Because of poor record keeping and no true archive of press and results, there is a strong indication that sam has well over 100 wins, some say over 110 back in the day. My guess this subject will be come more and more popular.

John Finestein, love him or hate him will likely dig and investigate a true number, tiger would likely prefer the 82 wins.
[/quote]
There's no doubt Snead was one of the greats, but I just have a hard time comparing Jack and Tiger's total number of wins to Sneads. The 40's and 50's had a handful of all time great golfers, but the competition just couldn't of been as deep as what Jack or Tiger have faced. There just weren't the number of touring pros as there are today.