Considering putter lie angle change... Need opinions..

[eagleface]

So my clubs got stolen a month or so ago and I had to replace them. Previously I was gaming an older oddyssey #9 with the plastic insert face. I cut it down to 32.5" from 34 and it was pretty decent for me. I would average 30 putts in a round but I thought I should switch up my putter after trying the newer style number 9 and not really liking it much. I tried other various oddyssey, nike, and ping putters. That was not an easy decision. I almost actually went Nike but was having a hard time finding one at 33" plus the price point was a little inflated I thought.

 

So I settled on the Oddyssey Ti Hot which has quite a nice feel to it that I prefer. It's a little longer( 33") but the feel and distance control is great. I am not an arc style putter, I am a straight back and through guy... I am struggling though to sink putts since I've had it, I roll the right distance and the ball seems to peter off left or right at the end.. Putts that I don't usually miss are missing, so I am questioning it... The thing that is different is the set up. I've been told that i have the proper stroke, posture, and aim from two professionals now..

 

So here is the meat and potatoes of my post.. I keep seeing the same tip on putting on golf channel. Shaft in line with your forearms. I've seen it twice, Breed talked about Michelle Wie doing it on how it helped her game, and some other pro from the nationwide tour from Ohio was talking about it as a tip... I'm thinking okay.. Maybe they're on to something and I notice many pros putters are set up that way... So I attempt that same hand position with the shaft/ forearms in line with my putter but the toe is digging into the ground, and the heel is raised a bit. So i think naturally, let's bend it so that it sits flat when my arms are in that position... It seems like my putts are rolling better but it's difficult to tell cause i am manipulating the shaft to what I think is correct but the toe/ heel angles are off. So I tell the two guys I talked to about it. One a Maltby Golf Galaxy fitter which locally is kind of reputable, and another a PGA professional apprentice. I want to bend it and they both say the same thing, " Don't bend it, might never be the same or just get used to the shaft not inline with the forearms".

 

Does that sound right? The PGA apprentice said wait another 3 weeks before i do it because it may ruin the putter. The Maltby fitter guy told me not to forward press my shaft at all and to not bend it at all as well otherwise I was not going to get a good roll.

[HackerD]

Think about getting fit for a putter. Sounds like you need something not typically off the rack. There's a static fitting guide on Seemore putters web site to get an idea.

I'm using the Utley method for putting which has the shaft in line w/ forearms. For that to work I needed to go with a longer putter and flatter lie.

[againstthegrain]

[quote name='eagleface' timestamp='1342424932' post='5283756']


Does that sound right? The PGA apprentice said wait another 3 weeks before i do it because it may ruin the putter. The Maltby fitter guy told me not to forward press my shaft at all and to not bend it at all as well otherwise I was not going to get a good roll.
[/quote]

You have already switched to an internal focus w regard to putting so you're going to have trouble scoring now no matter what you do. Right now the quickest way back would be to bend the putter and stay w the forward press. (I had an issue when I took an aimpoint class mid season when I was putting well and it switched me to an internal focus. I couldn't make a putt for a couple months, till I slowly switched back to an external focus - the target.)

Long term I agree w eliminating the forward press but I might wait till the off season to acomplish that.

[eagleface]

Hahah.. Yeah, I've seen the aimpoint class option and figured that would mess me all up.. You are correct though, that's the feeling i have with my putter for some reason it hasn't instilled any confidence in me... So I did a bit of research about aimpoint about 6 months ago. I found a bunch of graphs that help you determine the amount of break you play it is actually pretty good, but it only helps me read the greens more than anything... I still have to execute the putt. . The two guys both disagreed about the forward press and I'm still not really sure, i understand that you need to lift the ball out of the depression of the grass to get it to roll, but Phil preaches the forward press and he's a dang good golfer. I think I am going to give it a few more rounds before I bend it. It's just frustrating to play well but to not take advantage of easy birdies and pars when you have a few doubles on your card. The one pro that dissuaded me to bend it gave me the key to the putting green (they usually charge to use it) and told me to practice more.. So I was really focusing on the impact point of the ball and staying still throughout my entire putt.. I did that for about an hour and it seemed to have some pretty good putts. Hopefully it translates to some better scores. I want to have a mid 20 putt round not this 30-38 putts per round crap.

I also did the putter fitting at Callaway headquarters in Carlsbad along with the rest of my clubs.. It's not really as much detail in that department that they do with the other clubs, it's just not their thing, which surprised me considering they own oddyssey. They just picked a putter length for me and decided I was standard lie with my putter position.

Seemore has some interesting videos. Thanks HackerD and againstthegrain

[eagleface]

I was also experimenting with right hand under the grip and a strong left hand grip like Stricker preaches. Seemed to help.. Will find out tomorrow for golf league..

[againstthegrain]

I only brought up my experience w Aimpoint in regard to how it disturbed my putting w an internal focus as playing w a new putter is distrubing yours. I think Aimpoint has value, but is probably better off discussed in another thread.

As far as the forward press, it makes your shoulders open to the line so you're not squarle to the line. You can adapt (and it sounds like you have) your aim to compensate. Once I eliminated my fp consequently squaring my shoulders to the line and found a putter I aimed correctly (zero offset) I started to hole more putts from all distances.

Phil putted much better w/out the press he adopoted when he went to Stockton and last I noticed he doesn't use it any more.

[eagleface]

Okay.. Not sure if anyone is reading this, but the fix was to bend the putter up about 2 degrees. Back to putting low 30's per round instead of 40's. Thank god . I think it's been addressed quite often on the golf fix about the shaft relationship to your arms.. It is helpful to have the shaft in the same line as your forearms, so if you need to change the angle a few degrees to match it. Go for it. it helped tremendously in just one round. Will find out tomorrow on some difficult greens.

[hebron1427]

OK...let's speak some common sense. hopefully you can find some confidence from this post.

how hard is the act of moving your body to make a putting stroke? the idea is that you want still hands, still lower body, still head, and basically just rotate aroudn your shoulders. the actual task is so simple, you don't even realize it. you do it every day just reaching for a door handle. walking down a hallway is more complicated than the putting stroke.

the problem here is that you're thinking too much about things that don't matter. you're spending your energy and effort focusing on what people tell you that you should be doing or what you think you're doing wrong instead of doing....well....what you're supposed to: trying to make putts.

have you ever known that person that gets all bent out of shape about little things? my sister is one of these. she'll spend hours and hours worrying about party decorations or making sure each invitation is hand-written with no errors. in the end, she gets so caught up in the details that she misses some huge piece, like making sure a time is listed on the invitation.

the point of that example is that you need to stop worrying about this minutia and just go putt. pick a target and hit the ball at it. it's as simple as that. forget about SBST. forget about lie angle. forget about arms in line. just go do what feels right and try to dial it in.

don't get me wrong--there is lots of value in getting professional instruction and getting the right setup to be successful with your putting stroke. but what you're doing is not professional instruction. it's you (who are not a golf professional) looking at videos of pros (who you would be surprised to find don't necessarily putt all that well) and trying to adjust one part of your setup to look like theirs (WITHOUT properly fitting your putter or getting proper instruction on everything else you should be changing). What's worse, you're flipping between different philosophies trying to find one that works. here's a hint: none of them work if you're not committed.

seriously...putting is the simplest thing we do in golf. stop worrying about it. keep it as simple as it is. just go roll the ball.

[eagleface]

Maybe you didn't read my initial post or someone took a deuce in your bowl of Wheaties this morning.. Regardless a minor angle change made a difference. I did not push or pull putts.. Shooting a 92 with 41 putts is cause for concern when you average 30 putts before a putter change. The importance of the shaft angle's relationship to your forearms has been mentioned by several pros and is a very cheap tweak. Mine was free. Golfsmith and golf galaxy charge 6$ to bend. If you think it doesn't matter you are being naive or were lucky enough to get a putter that didn't have to be changed. My old putter was good never did anything too it except shorten it. I believe the shaft being on the same plane keeps your hands from getting to handsy.

I waited about 12 rounds before making this change and I think it was the way to go.. Now go eat some breakfast and stop being a dick.

[hebron1427]

[quote name='eagleface' timestamp='1344348795' post='5422674']
Maybe you didn't read my initial post or someone took a deuce in your bowl of Wheaties this morning.. Regardless a minor angle change made a difference. I did not push or pull putts.. Shooting a 92 with 41 putts is cause for concern when you average 30 putts before a putter change. The importance of the shaft angle's relationship to your forearms has been mentioned by several pros and is a very cheap tweak. Mine was free. Golfsmith and golf galaxy charge 6$ to bend. If you think it doesn't matter you are being naive or were lucky enough to get a putter that didn't have to be changed. My old putter was good never did anything too it except shorten it. I believe the shaft being on the same plane keeps your hands from getting to handsy.

I waited about 12 rounds before making this change and I think it was the way to go.. Now go eat some breakfast and stop being a dick.
[/quote]

wow. you need to calm down. people here are trying to help you. these kinds of responses are uncalled for. further, i'm not being a dick. i'm a guy who takes 30 putts per roudn with a putter at 74 lie angle. i know what i'm talking about with this stuff. taking 40 putts has nothing to do with the lie angle. it has to do with you being off your rocker.

[scotchblade]

Sorry, I still don't buy the proper this and that for putters. I know too many experienced players that are fantastic putters who can putt lights out with anything you hand them.

That is because they see and feel putts into the hole with their mind's eye and touch, it's a completely different mindset than getting bogged down in mechanics and specs.

[eagleface]

Comparing me to your sister is a dick move first of all. Second my putter is at 71* it came that way. I bent it to 73* and got good results. You just said the details don't matter yet you know your putter's angle. Seems a little ironic.

If it didn't matter people wouldn't be getting fitted for putters and oddyssey doesn't do that. So sorry if I called you out on it, but you are coming off as a *****.

[hebron1427]

[quote name='eagleface' timestamp='1344351345' post='5422952']
Comparing me to your sister is a dick move first of all. Second my putter is at 71* it came that way. I bent it to 73* and got good results. You just said the details don't matter yet you know your putter's angle. Seems a little ironic.

If it didn't matter people wouldn't be getting fitted for putters and oddyssey doesn't do that. So sorry if I called you out on it, but you are coming off as a *****.
[/quote]

once again, looking at film on youtube and self-anaylzing your stroke is not professional instruction or professional fitting. second, i would think a guy taking 40 putts in a round wouldn't be so quick to call out someone who hasn't 3-putted in 100+ holes on his advice about how to putt. was i wrong to read this post as a request for help?

take a deep breath, clear your brain, and re-read what i posted above. then decide who's making the dick move.

[eagleface]

If you read my first post which you obviously didn't you would notice I averaged 30 putts per round before my putter change. I was concluding my post that the lie angle change has helped. I'm not basing it on YouTube videos that you are instigating.

So take a deep breath and reevaluate your lack of attention to detail before making assumptions. I practiced with that putter several hours before making the change and it didn't make a difference. 2* did though.