Hogan's folding left arm post impact - was it a key?

[JBOMB808]

[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1343704942' post='5382068']
Nice ball flight. Cool golf shoes too:)
[/quote]

Thanks! What can I say - it's Hawaii,

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1343701580' post='5381746']

Lol............ only appropriate when you've actually said something funny.

Of course they don't have to explain themselves, and they've expressed their superb opinions before, and I should perhaps not dare to ask them to repeat anything............ however I think this is a crappy attitude that stunts debate in a positive thread and it annoys me............ and if I get another PM from one of you guys parroting the same things, i.e." welcome to the Hogan club and here are the 6 posters and 10,000 posts you should read before stepping into the debate again", then I'm literally going die of laughter.......... absolute identical messages which either means there is one person posting with several profiles or the unofficial forum conformity protocol had been activated by my posts...........

Perhaps Bradley was overly sensitive but he was also very thorough and patient and its no doubt been of great value to certain people............ however the usual little group decided to call him a charlatan and money grabbing con-man who was pushing faulty theories or repackaging old theories all to rip off ignorant people......... really sad to watch.......... but I expected it and I should have told him it would end in tears........... you guys are predictable if nothing else, it was just going to take one challenge too many before you circled the wagons............
[/quote]

If you'd notice, that group of people are willing and have been engaging in healthy arguments since time immemorial here on Wrx...I think this bickering thing only started when Brad started being sensitive and calling/implying things, which are all ad hominems. Why not just address the critiques head on and treat them constructively?

In case you didn't notice, it's not the group that started calling other opinions crap and started attacking others' opinions. Instead of just saying "I disagree, here is my opinion...", why say "that is crap, here's the real deal..."????

I don't know 8i's real intention, but he just seems to say he disagrees. Maybe it's his unwillingness to put so many words that give the tone you guys seem to perceive...but you should ask him...I really can't understand people joining in FORUMS and then getting sensitive on others' opinions. Darn that's what a FORUM is for!

Have you Googled already what "FORUM" means?..lol..yeah that's funny to me you don't know what it means...lol

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1343686662' post='5380252']
[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1343685800' post='5380170']
Unfortunately this stuff happens on this forum all the time.
The long term end sniffers all form a group and circle like sharks and say well I have 3000 posts so I am right.
Mizunoman.... what I am saying is actions speak louder than words. You wanna learn what I really fully teach then you see it in person because it isnt going to be so easily explained in words.... As shown here by a chosen few who think I am talking about one move... those guys are playing with themselves if they think I just said rotate the forearms and thats it....and they know it. They just want to be the big tough ones who have to try show they have bigger balls. Pretty typical really and they normally dont use their real name as a username and never post their swing and claim to know 11 grand slam winners. Like I said standard stuff when you have a keyboard in front of you. They are pretty much out to help no-one but trying to brush their egos up by saying "that's not what Hogan did" or "thats not Hogan"
I dont try make anyone swing like Hogan, Nelson or Betty Crocker.... I teach them how to make their own best swing based on dynamics and pressures
On that other forum that you talk about you only see the public forum- there is a whole different world in the private forum
And I now see all the smartass comments piling up. Pretty sad standards .
Enjoy playing with yourselves Until the next teacher with a real name posts and you can all plan your group huddle and keep things perfect in your own little world.. wkrs
[/quote]

Either way I appreciate you (and everyone else) coming on here voicing your opinion on things. I think the open debate helps everyone's understanding. So disagreement is good.

Not saying you are looking for yes men, but the more people genuinely question your theories, the more opportunity there is for learning for both parties involved (and all the readers).

But you will always have guys that will make these things personal and get off topic. It's unfortunate because if the debates could stay civil then it's a really good opportunity to hash things out. I recommend ignoring any of the personal crap though. Bigger fish to fry.
[/quote]

+1. Its who Brad got personal...the rest are proper reactions...

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1343698768' post='5381462']

Did Hogan not have great dynamics with his "power golf" era swing?
[/quote]

IMO, PG era is not post secret. So I think 5Lessons era is better. He avoided -arm/forearm rotation in PG. It's clear in the book. Explains his strong grip. He needed an automatic closer of the face as his intent is to hold off rotation especially in BS.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1343706990' post='5382238']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1343701580' post='5381746']
Lol............ only appropriate when you've actually said something funny.

Of course they don't have to explain themselves, and they've expressed their superb opinions before, and I should perhaps not dare to ask them to repeat anything............ however I think this is a crappy attitude that stunts debate in a positive thread and it annoys me............ and if I get another PM from one of you guys parroting the same things, i.e." welcome to the Hogan club and here are the 6 posters and 10,000 posts you should read before stepping into the debate again", then I'm literally going die of laughter.......... absolute identical messages which either means there is one person posting with several profiles or the unofficial forum conformity protocol had been activated by my posts...........

Perhaps Bradley was overly sensitive but he was also very thorough and patient and its no doubt been of great value to certain people............ however the usual little group decided to call him a charlatan and money grabbing con-man who was pushing faulty theories or repackaging old theories all to rip off ignorant people......... really sad to watch.......... but I expected it and I should have told him it would end in tears........... you guys are predictable if nothing else, it was just going to take one challenge too many before you circled the wagons............
[/quote]

If you'd notice, that group of people are willing and have been engaging in healthy arguments since time immemorial here on Wrx...I think this bickering thing only started when Brad started being sensitive and calling/implying things, which are all ad hominems. Why not just address the critiques head on and treat them constructively?

In case you didn't notice, it's not the group that started calling other opinions crap and started attacking others' opinions. Instead of just saying "I disagree, here is my opinion...", why say "that is crap, here's the real deal..."????

I don't know 8i's real intention, but he just seems to say he disagrees. Maybe it's his unwillingness to put so many words that give the tone you guys seem to perceive...but you should ask him...I really can't understand people joining in FORUMS and then getting sensitive on others' opinions. Darn that's what a FORUM is for!

Have you Googled already what "FORUM" means?..lol..yeah that's funny to me you don't know what it means...lol
[/quote]

......... because the definition of "forum" is such a head scratcher........... am I really supposed to drop down to that level?......... I'm a member of a rugby forum @ planet rugby that really does have teeth, you guys are water off a ducks back, there is very little pandering there, few cliques, and your condescension wrapped in fraternal elder statesmen of the Bored is so transparent.

And speaking of sensitive, 8iron is about as sensitive as they come, not to mention that the various self-proclaimed expert Hogan posters are highly selective in their responses and their posting tactics are so transparent.........

........ I've read enough here for it to be blatantly obvious that no-one is correct in their opinions entirely......... and I've seen some of these afficianado's being clearly off-base, so its ridiculous when I see them typing that "its all been explained before" and "go look it up" and "I shouldn't have to explain the right answer again"............. now that is funny.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1343696200' post='5381120']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1343680105' post='5379532']
I'm not going to call anyone simple but come on guys post the swings up already.

Here's my latest. I'm on to something, going to be real solid soon. Experimenting with a bunch of stuff.

DTL (drvier then 5 iron) [media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzO0ETE3srw&list=UUbAQrm62MeRt4pCeJq5twdA&index=1&feature=plcp[/media]

Face on (5 iron the driver): [media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xc3KjzlZws&feature=plcp[/media]
[/quote]

Nice swing. But IMO, you can't possibly try copying Hogan's dynamics without his truly weak L hand grip and bit weaker R hand grip...just my 2 cents...
[/quote]

Thanks I appreciate the comment. Grip does look a little strong there but I'm trying to copy it as slicefixer describers (and I am going for more of a Hogan power golf era move).

I think the release and everything is getting closer. It looked way better tonight than in those videos. I'll post up tomorrow AM.

My point is I'm going to keep rolling with the slightly strong grip and working on my current check list and see where that gets me, then go from there.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1343687165' post='5380290']
Just to make my point clear, theory and words are cool, but at some point you need to stop talking math and actually show the execution, otherwise it's just a bunch of chalk on the board. And I'm highly skeptical of TGM in general because most of TGM students and pros I see have chitty swings. Actually they look more like a disfunctional machine than a athletic/graceful move.
[/quote]

K I don't want to sound like too much of an @ss. I'm trying to goat everyone into posting golf swings because I love analyzing them for my own learning process. It's easy to get blinded by the beauty of Hogan's swing. So it's helpful to look at other swings with some Hogan elements because you can start to get a better understanding how different pieces of the puzzle fit together (not that I understand, just think I'm getting closer). For example, I like to look at Carl Petterson vs. Furyk vs. AK vs. Matteo vs. Duffner vs. Hunter vs. Slicefixer students vs. Rock etc etc etc.

But I don't want to offend anyone too much, just enough to goat them into posting their swing for my own selfish self interest

[JBOMB808]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1343707639' post='5382290']
[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1343698768' post='5381462']
Did Hogan not have great dynamics with his "power golf" era swing?
[/quote]

IMO, PG era is not post secret. So I think 5Lessons era is better. He avoided -arm/forearm rotation in PG. It's clear in the book. Explains his strong grip. He needed an automatic closer of the face as his intent is to hold off rotation especially in BS.
[/quote]

The dynamics of PG and 5L are the same regardless, especially if you compare it to his 'initial swing'. It's not hard to imagine him hooking it off the planet with this swing.
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oURjm5XeNm0[/media]


@tylerdurden, You can use a strong grip no doubt about, but at ANY point on the course you MAY encounter a drive that's more 'left' than intended. Usually one that you're really trying to rip. The reason why I say a 'drive' and not so much a iron shot is because of the angle of attack/swing path and of course the amount of distance the driver has to travel to release. A downward descending blow is easier to keep relatively square (hold-off save) compared to speeding up a 'release' for maximum distance - 3 right hands. Different 'strokes' for different folks. Trevino doesn't release his strong grip *often for fear of hooking.*

Thanks for posting your swing btw.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1343708893' post='5382372']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1343707639' post='5382290']
[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1343698768' post='5381462']
Did Hogan not have great dynamics with his "power golf" era swing?
[/quote]

IMO, PG era is not post secret. So I think 5Lessons era is better. He avoided -arm/forearm rotation in PG. It's clear in the book. Explains his strong grip. He needed an automatic closer of the face as his intent is to hold off rotation especially in BS.
[/quote]

The dynamics of PG and 5L are the same regardless, especially if you compare it to his 'initial swing'. It's not hard to imagine him hooking it off the planet.
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oURjm5XeNm0[/media]


@tylerdurden, You can use a strong grip no doubt about, but at ANY point on the course you MAY encounter a drive that's more 'left' than intended. Usually one that you're really trying to rip. The reason why I say a 'drive' and not a iron shot is because of the angle of attack/swing path and of course the amount of distance the driver has to travel to release. A downward descending blow is easier to keep relatively square (hold-off save) compared to speeding up a 'release' for maximum distance - 3 right hands. Different 'strokes' for different folks. Trevino doesn't release his strong grip *often for fear of hooking.*

Thanks for posting your swing btw.
[/quote]

You know it's funny because I'm actually more afraid of right then left. I have this specialty shot called the power block, it's quite impressive. Can randomly come out of the bag and suddenly a drive starts right and curves more right, ending approximately 50-100 yards right of intended target. Can kill a good round REAL fast. Luckily I've been getting it under control though.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1343709236' post='5382382']
[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1343708893' post='5382372']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1343707639' post='5382290']

IMO, PG era is not post secret. So I think 5Lessons era is better. He avoided -arm/forearm rotation in PG. It's clear in the book. Explains his strong grip. He needed an automatic closer of the face as his intent is to hold off rotation especially in BS.
[/quote]

The dynamics of PG and 5L are the same regardless, especially if you compare it to his 'initial swing'. It's not hard to imagine him hooking it off the planet.
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oURjm5XeNm0[/media]


@tylerdurden, You can use a strong grip no doubt about, but at ANY point on the course you MAY encounter a drive that's more 'left' than intended. Usually one that you're really trying to rip. The reason why I say a 'drive' and not a iron shot is because of the angle of attack/swing path and of course the amount of distance the driver has to travel to release. A downward descending blow is easier to keep relatively square (hold-off save) compared to speeding up a 'release' for maximum distance - 3 right hands. Different 'strokes' for different folks. Trevino doesn't release his strong grip *often for fear of hooking.*

Thanks for posting your swing btw.
[/quote]

You know it's funny because I'm actually more afraid of right then left. I have this specialty shot called the power block, it's quite impressive. Can randomly come out of the bag and suddenly a drive starts right and curves more right, ending approximately 50-100 yards right of intended target. Can kill a good round REAL fast. Luckily I've been getting it under control though.
[/quote]

Well Hogan couldn't go left either, so sounds like you're pretty close to cracking it!

Perhaps this is the evolution of his swing........... the super duper monster power fade.

[JBOMB808]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1343709236' post='5382382']
You know it's funny because I'm actually more afraid of right then left. I have this specialty shot called the power block, it's quite impressive. Can randomly come out of the bag and suddenly a drive starts right and curves more right, ending approximately 50-100 yards right of intended target. Can kill a good round REAL fast. Luckily I've been getting it under control though.
[/quote]

Ha, I hear you. I have a 'specialty shot' too that tails right of my target as well sometimes, but a shot that drifts right won't 'run' as far as a shot curving left. And left miss is usually low so if there's a decent tree line, you may have lose over 100 yards forward progress. Shots right are usually high so clearing trouble even has a higher percentage. If you play your misses and *Always end up on one side, just like nice' said you're understanding 'dirt'.

[eightiron]

Lot of words NBD , let's see the swing!!

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1343710743' post='5382474']
Lot of words NBD , let's see the swing!!
[/quote]

No........... I don't want to.

If you can't handle words then go buy a coloring in book..........

btw Hogan's swing is overrated.

[bhughesgolf]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1343707158' post='5382258']

. Its who Brad got personal...the rest are proper reactions...
[/quote]

Hogan101....I suggest you should re-read every post.

NOT ONCE did I get personal....I never said YOUR beliefs were right or wrong. In fact I never rebutted anything you said. I stated my beliefs from my experiences and from my experiences of teaching people to get better and become as knowledgable as they can. I never said anyone was full of it.
I asked one question...can you do what you are talking about or is it just a theory of words.
pretty simple question as I have seen your moniker on a bunch of websiites preaching the same thing over and over but never a pic or video of you doing what you say is correct......which is why I asked "can you do it".. and does the ball do what you want it to do.

You were the one in every post who said I WAS WRONG...and that HOGAN didn't do that or didn't do what I was saying....and then a few others stepped in and said "I was a money hungry thief" for not wanting to give all my beliefs away for free in an open forum. I was told ABS is a load of shite by one person who did one drill for one month and knows nothing of the remainder of the work. I got told that super slotting was made up and they were upset I wouldn't give out more information about it.
That was enough for me to start rebutting personal insults against my willingness to help people with every answer I provided and decide this public discussion area wasn't the environment I liked to operate in. No hard feelings or regrets....just not a pleasant place to be around when people are here to try learn something and some feel it is their space and need to try and protect it against anyone else with an idea.
I let you have your stage and talk all about L arm this and that...and never questioned it. I showed pics of steep V level turning shoulder pics and showed the differences for others to decide.........

Shoe was definitely on the other foot.... but I am made out to be the bad guy .......but that's ok....the smart people can see beyond all that stuff and make their own decisions on what works for them and what doesn't.

Leave you with one thought...Ben Hogan said ":The ultimate judge of a good golf swing is the flight of the ball".......sums it up really.

[JBOMB808]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmcGddjGevk[/media]
Funny how people are going to hate on someone that actually got to play with the greats at the friggin' MASTERS!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Masters_Tournament

[Lefthook]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1343715843' post='5382648']
I was told ABS is a load of shite by one person who did one drill for one month and knows nothing of the remainder of the work. [/quote]

This is far from what I said about ABS. And the two other statements are untrue as well.

There's no need to get emotional, bhughes.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='Lefthook' timestamp='1343728924' post='5382866']
[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1343715843' post='5382648']
I was told ABS is a load of shite by one person who did one drill for one month and knows nothing of the remainder of the work. [/quote]

This is far from what I said about ABS. And the two other statements are untrue as well.

There's no need to get emotional, bhughes.
[/quote]

Yeah a bit unfair methinks.......... I thought you wrote a very reasonable post.

However if there is one place that can incite you to lose your cool then it is here........... as I've said before it can easily bring out the worst in me, particularly as there is a ton of self-serving arrogance/condescension posing as gentlemanly decorum, and occasionally the playground bullies show their true colors.

Edit: btw I agree with your original post that this had the makings of a great thread but I think that might be toast now........... Bradley might have overreacted somewhat (including myself) but after constant absolutist assertions like "you're utterly wrong in your analysis" to a very respected player and teacher, and him offering a critique of TGM, it was only a matter of time before things got heated........... however the usual suspects pleasuring themselves calling him a snake oil salesmen probably put the final nail in the coffin......... that's the sad part.......... I just wish these same people could take the time to offer as much constructive opinions (pictures, videos, clippings) as they do trying to shut others down.......... but thats not their modus operandi.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1343652009' post='5376776']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1343651276' post='5376730']
Schlee's method I agree 100%. But Schlee's method is not what you're/Brad is saying.
[/quote]

You ever had a lesson from me?
You ever had a lesson from Schlee?

So...how would you know?.........

..... I am certainly not going to give it all away am I............The serious students who want to put in the work and have lessons they get the whole enchilada......

Out in internet world it's just a bunch of words that people can choose to decipher however they want
[/quote]

Looks like you began being sensitive in here. And all I'm saying is what you are SAYING is not what Schlee said in that book/DVDs.

That is why I am careful in my posts, so as not to offend you, me knowing that you exposed yourself to the public as a teacher, hence you will be more sensitive to disagreements (based on my experience in the real world...).

I never said you are wrong, btw. I probably said that is not what Hogan did, but that is impliedly in the context that that is MHO.

But IMHO, telling people to swing their shoulders level is the MOST damaging to golfers of all teachings. It BENDS the path more than it needed to be. Every Hogan student that I saw/know, and I mean actual students taught by Hogan or Hogan's disciples, always swing and tell you to swing upright without disconnecting your armpits!

Maybe we can go on with some other topic. I agree to disagree on this. Hope you will.

Btw, I can do it now. Certainly didn't do it with the flat and level shoulder. And I've tried everything. IMHO, MORAD/SnT/TGM is the best. Even your velocity power swing that you hate and like to contrast to your preferred rotational power based swing are both TGM concepts. So its pretty kinda off to me that you publicly say you don't like TGM at all.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1343717673' post='5382690']
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmcGddjGevk[/media]
Funny how people are going to hate on someone that actually got to play with the greats at the friggin' MASTERS!
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Masters_Tournament"]http://en.wikipedia....ters_Tournament[/url]
[/quote]

Is this what Brad is teaching now? Brad, is this swing a representation of what you've been saying now?

The irony is, it is a velocity power based swing. You swing upright, not level. Your shoulders are more level at setup and on top, but you swing your L arm really upright.

That is what I'm saying all along, with the modification that you keep the armpits connected, especially the R armpit, which means you have to swing your shoulders upright to swing the L arm upright in relation to the ball.

If in that swing of Brad, he will keep his R armpit connected, thus making the L arm lower and more inline with his shoulder line or slightly below it, Brad will keep on chunking the ground. I am SURE Brad's swing when he was in his junior years will be more Hoganesque.

Edit: Btw, needless to say, excellent swing there Brad.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1343712269' post='5382548']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1343710743' post='5382474']
Lot of words NBD , let's see the swing!!
[/quote]

No........... I don't want to.

If you can't handle words then go buy a coloring in book..........

btw Hogan's swing is overrated.
[/quote]

Looks like both you guys are scared to post a swing.

Hogan's swing was underrated btw, your clueless if you really think it's overrated.

[drewspin]

Tyler - word of free advice to try or discard. Take a look at your right knee and Hogan's right knee in these pictures of Hogan at the 1952 masters.

[attachment=1284498:55d1a16fe907d07b_large.jpg]

[attachment=1284500:63ea9b5f812f5e84_large.jpg]

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1343741237' post='5383394']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1343712269' post='5382548']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1343710743' post='5382474']
Lot of words NBD , let's see the swing!!
[/quote]

No........... I don't want to.

If you can't handle words then go buy a coloring in book..........

btw Hogan's swing is overrated.
[/quote]

Looks like both you guys are scared to post a swing.

Hogan's swing was underrated btw, your clueless if you really think it's overrated.
[/quote]

Absolutely I don't want to post a swing, especially at the insistence of people I don't particularly like and who have the knives out for me(not referring to you btw but you have your moments) so I'm not going to make an effort for them........ I'm a bit of a hacker and my aptitude for the game is fairly poor, though I can still strike it pretty well and I'm constantly tinkering for my own enjoyment....... you previously said that you only like analyzing other's swings, so don't get belligerent about it........ if you don't appreciate my contributions, particularly in regards to you personally in the past, then fine but stop pushing your swing posting agenda on me constantly......... its getting boring

...... and please engage grey matter before responding to some things I say....... I've made 200 posts on a Hogan forum.

[drewspin]

Regarding Hogan's left arm folding past impact: As Fats teaches, understanding his grip is [u][b]imperative[/b][/u].

A pair of George Silk photos for Life - illustrate the grip and the folding. I believe this is Winged Foot US Open - 1959:


[attachment=1284502:3549ee032970d6bf_large.jpg]

Look at the left hand and left arm in the fold:

[attachment=1284510:a22512ec17b16ed1_large.jpg]

Here's another look at that left hand and grip during the folding of the left arm:

1950 Los Angeles Open - Hogan's comeback after recovery from the 1949 car crash.
[attachment=1284516:8cb606daedd79315_large.jpg]

Another first tee shot in the 1950 LA Open - from the playoff with Snead:

[attachment=1284538:7d3361f695e7fd33_large.jpg]

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1343742134' post='5383452']
Absolutely I don't want to post a swing, especially at the insistence of people I don't particularly like and who have the knives out for me(not referring to you btw but you have your moments) so I'm not going to make an effort for them........ I'm a bit of a hacker and my aptitude for the game is fairly poor, though I can still strike it pretty well and I'm constantly tinkering for my own enjoyment....... you previously said that you only like analyzing other's swings, so don't get belligerent about it........ if you don't appreciate my contributions, particularly in regards to you personally in the past, then fine but stop pushing your swing posting agenda on me constantly......... its getting boring

...... and please engage grey matter before responding to some things I say....... I've made 200 posts on a Hogan forum.
[/quote]

engage grey matter? is this star trek?

I'll always push MY agenda. Who's else would I push?

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='drewspin' timestamp='1343741968' post='5383434']
Tyler - word of free advice to try or discard. Take a look at your right knee and Hogan's right knee in these pictures of Hogan at the 1952 masters.

[attachment=1284498:55d1a16fe907d07b_large.jpg]

[attachment=1284500:63ea9b5f812f5e84_large.jpg]
[/quote]

Great pics. Thanks

[svsvincenzo]

Great pics. Really shows his weak L hand grip.

Also great pics on the R leg and knee. Hogan didn't seem to straighten the R knee at all. I've said way back, his R knee/leg straightening is an illusion. The illusion, IMO, comes from the fact that his R hip goes back (away from the target line, south of target line at golfer's perspective) and then R hip goes towards the target nearing the top. If you look DTL of Hogan, it will look like the R leg is straightening because the R hip/butt goes away from you, it tilts away from you.

Re this R leg tilting that some calls back shifting, I also wonder why the fuss about it. If I just turn my shoulders under the Hogan plane of glass and keep everything in my lower body still, the backshift happens automatically. It always will. The counter-fall. No need to bounce them off the R hip/leg limit as Dariusz have been so high about...

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1343745513' post='5383724']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1343742134' post='5383452']
Absolutely I don't want to post a swing, especially at the insistence of people I don't particularly like and who have the knives out for me(not referring to you btw but you have your moments) so I'm not going to make an effort for them........ I'm a bit of a hacker and my aptitude for the game is fairly poor, though I can still strike it pretty well and I'm constantly tinkering for my own enjoyment....... you previously said that you only like analyzing other's swings, so don't get belligerent about it........ if you don't appreciate my contributions, particularly in regards to you personally in the past, then fine but stop pushing your swing posting agenda on me constantly......... its getting boring

...... and please engage grey matter before responding to some things I say....... I've made 200 posts on a Hogan forum.
[/quote]

engage grey matter? is this star trek?

I'll always push MY agenda. Who's else would I push?
[/quote]

this conversation is getting a bit too deep for me.............

[ej002]

[i][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnpkDWbeJs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnpkDWbeJs[/url][/i]

[tylerdurden]

lol thank you

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1343745706' post='5383734']
Great pics. Really shows his weak L hand grip.

Also great pics on the R leg and knee. Hogan didn't seem to straighten the R knee at all. I've said way back, his R knee/leg straightening is an illusion. The illusion, IMO, comes from the fact that his R hip goes back (away from the target line, south of target line at golfer's perspective) and then R hip goes towards the target nearing the top. If you look DTL of Hogan, it will look like the R leg is straightening because the R hip/butt goes away from you, it tilts away from you.

Re this R leg tilting that some calls back shifting, I also wonder why the fuss about it. If I just turn my shoulders under the Hogan plane of glass and keep everything in my lower body still, the backshift happens automatically. It always will. The counter-fall. No need to bounce them off the R hip/leg limit as Dariusz have been so high about...
[/quote]

Who claimed the right leg straightens? It stays braced but I've never heard anyone says it straightens............ in Five Lessons Hogan makes specific mention that "the right leg, it should maintain the same position it had at address, the same angle in relation to the ground, throughout the backswing" (p.75)

Regarding backshift, I can't agree with you................. modern players often really restrict the lower body and no discernable backshift happens......... for me it occurs when you pivot into a very braced right leg and the hip goes deep until eventually a 'counter fall' will occur........ the deeper the braced right hip the bigger the fall, and Hogan went very deep which is why he had a big backshift.........

Charl Swartzel, starts rotating almost immediately
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nPXpJQQpgA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nPXpJQQpgA[/url]

..... and of course Mr Hogan
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM72lVlhdrs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM72lVlhdrs[/url]