Hogan's folding left arm post impact - was it a key?

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1343685800' post='5380170']
Unfortunately this stuff happens on this forum all the time.
The long term end sniffers all form a group and circle like sharks and say well I have 3000 posts so I am right.
Mizunoman.... what I am saying is actions speak louder than words. You wanna learn what I really fully teach then you see it in person because it isnt going to be so easily explained in words.... As shown here by a chosen few who think I am talking about one move... those guys are playing with themselves if they think I just said rotate the forearms and thats it....and they know it. They just want to be the big tough ones who have to try show they have bigger balls. Pretty typical really and they normally dont use their real name as a username and never post their swing and claim to know 11 grand slam winners. Like I said standard stuff when you have a keyboard in front of you. They are pretty much out to help no-one but trying to brush their egos up by saying "that's not what Hogan did" or "thats not Hogan"
I dont try make anyone swing like Hogan, Nelson or Betty Crocker.... I teach them how to make their own best swing based on dynamics and pressures
On that other forum that you talk about you only see the public forum- there is a whole different world in the private forum
And I now see all the smartass comments piling up. Pretty sad standards .
Enjoy playing with yourselves Until the next teacher with a real name posts and you can all plan your group huddle and keep things perfect in your own little world.. wkrs
[/quote]

Either way I appreciate you (and everyone else) coming on here voicing your opinion on things. I think the open debate helps everyone's understanding. So disagreement is good.

Not saying you are looking for yes men, but the more people genuinely question your theories, the more opportunity there is for learning for both parties involved (and all the readers).

But you will always have guys that will make these things personal and get off topic. It's unfortunate because if the debates could stay civil then it's a really good opportunity to hash things out. I recommend ignoring any of the personal crap though. Bigger fish to fry.

[tylerdurden]

But back to the personal battles. Atleast Brad has the stones to openly display his swing, face and theories. I don't get the hidding behind the computer screen. Some of the stuff you TGM guys say is cool (even though that book is a piece of crap/garbage/nonsense), but you all should grow a pair.

[tylerdurden]

Just to make my point clear, theory and words are cool, but at some point you need to stop talking math and actually show the execution, otherwise it's just a bunch of chalk on the board. And I'm highly skeptical of TGM in general because most of TGM students and pros I see have chitty swings. Actually they look more like a disfunctional machine than a athletic/graceful move.

[ALIF]

The thing with Brad is that he won tournaments, set records, etc. He can flat out play. He has let his clubs do the talking. Everyone may not agree w/ what he says but that's ok. Personally, I went to the range this morning and was trying to do the laying the club off at the top move and hit the ball as well as I've ever hit it. So, that swing idea that I got from Brad worked for me. I'll try it again tomorrow or Wed w/ the driver. Lets just keep it civil guys.

[Mike Divot]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1343686869' post='5380268']
[i]even though that book is a piece of crap/garbage/nonsense)[/i]
[/quote]

!!!!!

We've had enough heresy in here over the last two/three days without you upsetting the orthodoxy any more.

Can't we just agree: TGM = complex and therefore impressive; and HOGAN.

[Mike Divot]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1343657122' post='5377136']
Btw I'm curious as to why that teeace guy posted that you were banned from wrx , what name or names were you posting under before?
[/quote]

Yeah, Brad. Are you some kind of ... [i]commie?[/i]

Just [s]preserving our precious bodily fluids[/s] askin'.

[bhughesgolf]

[quote name='Mike Divot' timestamp='1343690389' post='5380564']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1343657122' post='5377136']
Btw I'm curious as to why that teeace guy posted that you were banned from wrx , what name or names were you posting under before?
[/quote]

Yeah, Brad. Are you some kind of ... [i]commie?[/i]

Just [s]preserving our precious bodily fluids[/s] askin'.
[/quote]

You believe that crap post from someone else? Ignorance is bliss...
I was never banned....I have never been on here before except as my real name.....Never came to this forum until recently because of hearing all the BS with Sevam, Dariusz and others....thought I would give it a try as I received a request from someone to come write over here who liked my youtube videos and give some thoughts from my experiences. Should have known better and understand why they left and why slicefixer never posts here
I don't need to hide behind a screen name or make up stuff about other people.

[ALIF]

[quote name='Mike Divot' timestamp='1343690389' post='5380564']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1343657122' post='5377136']
Btw I'm curious as to why that teeace guy posted that you were banned from wrx , what name or names were you posting under before?
[/quote]

Yeah, Brad. Are you some kind of ... [i]commie?[/i]

Just [s]preserving our precious bodily fluids[/s] askin'.
[/quote]

The plot thickens.

[ALIF]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1343691671' post='5380648']
[quote name='Mike Divot' timestamp='1343690389' post='5380564']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1343657122' post='5377136']
Btw I'm curious as to why that teeace guy posted that you were banned from wrx , what name or names were you posting under before?
[/quote]

Yeah, Brad. Are you some kind of ... [i]commie?[/i]

Just [s]preserving our precious bodily fluids[/s] askin'.
[/quote]

You believe that crap post from someone else? Ignorance is bliss...
I was never banned....I have never been on here before except as my real name.....Never came to this forum until recently because of hearing all the BS with Sevam, Dariusz and others....thought I would give it a try as I received a request from someone to come write over here who liked my youtube videos and give some thoughts from my experiences. Should have known better and understand why they left and why slicefixer never posts here
I don't need to hide behind a screen name or make up stuff about other people.
[/quote]

Please don't go. I like your stuff:)

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1343669834' post='5378420']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1343667983' post='5378222']
@Dim

You're being had...lol...Teeace, Dariusz...all missed the boat...lol

If you will read and understand eightiron's posts since 2008...(around 3k posts...lol..)...you'll actually gonnan learn a loooot....no need to pay 2k plus bucks per module...it's all been there...
[/quote]

What are you on about?

I'm not one of Bradley's students......... its called providing a service and if a person perceives there to be value there they will pay for that service........ if you don't want to then don't........... whats the big deal?

3k posts from just one poster! like everyone is going to sift through all that! Let alone whether they will understand any of it!

You need to get real......... everyone who teaches has a program........... Bradley is not trying to create Hogan copies......... he's trying to help certain golfers achieve a swings that shares similarities with the many good ballstrikers of yesteryear........... whether his system works for you is another matter.......... you might as well pan every instructor on the planet if you're going to follow that line of argument............. better yet they can come to you and you can point them to 20,000 posts on Golfwrx.

Try and read in between the lines about what I type............ if you can't watch some of Dariusz's videos and take some value from them (raw Hogan footage, whats the issue?) then I find it strange.......... it highlights Hogan's particularl idiosyncrasies if nothing else........... a bit like Sevam1 one will get a newbie thinking about ground forces or he might pick up a titbit about how Snead achieved his famed squat........... and whats Teeace got do with it?

......... and if its all been covered already then why are you here? surely you've got better things to do then point this out to idiots like me who can't sift through the Golfwrx archives? The debates clearly over as far as you are concerned, is there any point to this?
[/quote]

You asked 8i to give us his take on things re what's discussed in here, and you seem to imply he's just here to pick on people/things. I'm saying he already did a loooong time ago. They just grew tired off posting, they already did anyway.

So, do your research. Many of us here did. I did. And it's understandable, you just have to try. You can do it. They DON'T HAVE TO explain things but they did way back. So what's on with you saying that and demanding things?

Bradley opened up his ideas here, what's up with him and you if people disagree with him. Look at the posts here, he's the one that started being sensitive...if he doesn't want anyone disagreeing with him, he shouldn't have an opinion or better yet keep quiet...what's he up to here then, to get students? This is a FORUM. Google FORUM...lol

[svsvincenzo]

Btw, Dariusz opinions sucks, IMHO. I know some people think my opinion sucks. But that's ok with me....IMO, you'd been had...lol

[Mike Divot]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1343691671' post='5380648']
You believe that crap post from someone else? Ignorance is bliss...
[/quote]

I have PM'ed you.

[JBOMB808]

ok guys, calm down. No need for name-calling and negative comments about other posters. Topic at hand. Where's the moderator when you need one? Please delete all comments not pertaining to this topic.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1343685800' post='5380170']
Mizunoman.... what I am saying is actions speak louder than words. [b]You wanna learn what I really fully teach then you see it in person because it isnt going to be so easily explained in words[/b]....
[/quote]

Bradley - there is nothing you could show in person that would overcome your mistaken notion that Hogan rotated his forearms on the transition - you're already dead in the water as far as decoding Hogan.

[JBOMB808]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1343693953' post='5380868']
Bradley - there is nothing you could show in person that would overcome your mistaken notion that Hogan rotated his forearms on the transition - you're already dead in the water as far as decoding Hogan.
[/quote]

Please if you can, demonstrate or explain what Hogan did do instead?

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1343694098' post='5380876']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1343693953' post='5380868']
Bradley - there is nothing you could show in person that would overcome your mistaken notion that Hogan rotated his forearms on the transition - you're already dead in the water as far as decoding Hogan.
[/quote]

Please if you can, demonstrate or explain what Hogan did do instead?
[/quote]

I already did! He did a power squat - a micro down-weighting - on the transition. Hardly enough to notice, but look at the slight increase in knee bend. This flattens the shaft nicely.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1343694476' post='5380912']
[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1343694098' post='5380876']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1343693953' post='5380868']
Bradley - there is nothing you could show in person that would overcome your mistaken notion that Hogan rotated his forearms on the transition - you're already dead in the water as far as decoding Hogan.
[/quote]

Please if you can, demonstrate or explain what Hogan did do instead?
[/quote]

I already did! He did a power squat - a micro down-weighting - on the transition. Hardly enough to notice, but look at the slight increase in knee bend. This flattens the shaft nicely.
[/quote]

MJ, you think Hogan intentionally squat? I think he just passed thru it. I think he did what he said he did.

[Lefthook]

Lagpressure & Brad can play and they also have a very good eye for the golf swing. And they are both generous with their knowledge.

I tried ABS for a few months, but it was counterproductive to my game. Too much emphasis on wrists and forearm and I'm not convinced that the movements in those drills were correct either. The stuff we were drilling were too exaggerated for me. Very little emphasis on address, setup, posture, stance, back swing, pivot in general. My hands and arms were starting to make their own swing. Pivot stall and all kinds of problems crept in - even though ABS despises pivot stall. Eventually I started to feel a tennis elbow from hitting into an impact bag 100 times a day. And since it wasn't working it wasn't too hard to put the module work to rest. A while later I discovered slicefixer. His take on this swing is [b]pivotal[/b] in more than one way. Pivot oriented with detailed pivot instructions. Besides, his stuff works for me.

Other golfers may have more success with ABS and less with slicefixer than I've had, but [b]everyone who is interested in slicefixer and ABS should be aware that there is an ocean of difference between the two[/b] as far as swing theories and drills are concerned, even though some of the parts and the end goal (a hogan like impact) are the same.

Brad has nothing to be sore about and playing the "I'm a better player than you" card was IMO uncalled for. This is a discussion forum and words (and footage) are the only action anyone will ever get. Hogan101, eight and others have forwarded some valid critique. And Brad has made a good case for his take on things. I hope we can keep things civilized because this has the potential of growing into a very good discussion.

[svsvincenzo]

Btw, one can squat and still don't flatten/layoff the shaft if he turns his shoulders more out or more level. I think the ultimate cause of flattening the shaft is the R shoulder going more DOWN instead of out. However, for most people, this would be more detrimental because if they get their R shoulder DOWN, they will immediately lose L wristc0ck/lag and steepen the shaft. How would you avoid losing lag and avoid steepening the shaft?

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1343691671' post='5380648']
[quote name='Mike Divot' timestamp='1343690389' post='5380564']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1343657122' post='5377136']
Btw I'm curious as to why that teeace guy posted that you were banned from wrx , what name or names were you posting under before?
[/quote]

Yeah, Brad. Are you some kind of ... [i]commie?[/i]

Just [s]preserving our precious bodily fluids[/s] askin'.
[/quote]

You believe that crap post from someone else? Ignorance is bliss...
I was never banned....I have never been on here before except as my real name.....Never came to this forum until recently because of hearing all the BS with Sevam, Dariusz and others....thought I would give it a try as I received a request from someone to come write over here who liked my youtube videos and give some thoughts from my experiences. Should have known better and understand why they left and why slicefixer never posts here
I don't need to hide behind a screen name or make up stuff about other people.
[/quote]

Slicefixer/Geoff don't post now bec his schedule is sooooooo full of students....and he likes discussions, but he never started a I'm the better player, so you cannot disagree with me...lol

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1343680105' post='5379532']
I'm not going to call anyone simple but come on guys post the swings up already.

Here's my latest. I'm on to something, going to be real solid soon. Experimenting with a bunch of stuff.

DTL (drvier then 5 iron) [media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzO0ETE3srw&list=UUbAQrm62MeRt4pCeJq5twdA&index=1&feature=plcp[/media]

Face on (5 iron the driver): [media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xc3KjzlZws&feature=plcp[/media]
[/quote]

Nice swing. But IMO, you can't possibly try copying Hogan's dynamics without his truly weak L hand grip and bit weaker R hand grip...just my 2 cents...

[ncgolf]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1343686869' post='5380268']
But back to the personal battles. Atleast Brad has the stones to openly display his swing, face and theories. I don't get the hidding behind the computer screen. Some of the stuff you TGM guys say is cool (even though that book is a piece of crap/garbage/nonsense), but you all should grow a pair.
[/quote]

+1

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1343696200' post='5381120']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1343680105' post='5379532']
I'm not going to call anyone simple but come on guys post the swings up already.

Here's my latest. I'm on to something, going to be real solid soon. Experimenting with a bunch of stuff.

DTL (drvier then 5 iron) [media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzO0ETE3srw&list=UUbAQrm62MeRt4pCeJq5twdA&index=1&feature=plcp[/media]

Face on (5 iron the driver): [media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xc3KjzlZws&feature=plcp[/media]
[/quote]

Nice swing. But IMO, you can't possibly try copying Hogan's dynamics without his truly weak L hand grip and bit weaker R hand grip...just my 2 cents...
[/quote]
Did Hogan not have great dynamics with his "power golf" era swing?

[bhughesgolf]

I neer stated about being a better player than anyone. I stated if you can do it then you have a better chance of explaining it or showing it.
As yet I still havent seen any of the talkers actually doing anything except throwing words down on a page.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1343692550' post='5380732']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1343669834' post='5378420']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1343667983' post='5378222']
@Dim

You're being had...lol...Teeace, Dariusz...all missed the boat...lol

If you will read and understand eightiron's posts since 2008...(around 3k posts...lol..)...you'll actually gonnan learn a loooot....no need to pay 2k plus bucks per module...it's all been there...
[/quote]

What are you on about?

I'm not one of Bradley's students......... its called providing a service and if a person perceives there to be value there they will pay for that service........ if you don't want to then don't........... whats the big deal?

3k posts from just one poster! like everyone is going to sift through all that! Let alone whether they will understand any of it!

You need to get real......... everyone who teaches has a program........... Bradley is not trying to create Hogan copies......... he's trying to help certain golfers achieve a swings that shares similarities with the many good ballstrikers of yesteryear........... whether his system works for you is another matter.......... you might as well pan every instructor on the planet if you're going to follow that line of argument............. better yet they can come to you and you can point them to 20,000 posts on Golfwrx.

Try and read in between the lines about what I type............ if you can't watch some of Dariusz's videos and take some value from them (raw Hogan footage, whats the issue?) then I find it strange.......... it highlights Hogan's particularl idiosyncrasies if nothing else........... a bit like Sevam1 one will get a newbie thinking about ground forces or he might pick up a titbit about how Snead achieved his famed squat........... and whats Teeace got do with it?

......... and if its all been covered already then why are you here? surely you've got better things to do then point this out to idiots like me who can't sift through the Golfwrx archives? The debates clearly over as far as you are concerned, is there any point to this?
[/quote]

You asked 8i to give us his take on things re what's discussed in here, and you seem to imply he's just here to pick on people/things. I'm saying he already did a loooong time ago. They just grew tired off posting, they already did anyway.

So, do your research. Many of us here did. I did. And it's understandable, you just have to try. You can do it. They DON'T HAVE TO explain things but they did way back. So what's on with you saying that and demanding things?

Bradley opened up his ideas here, what's up with him and you if people disagree with him. Look at the posts here, he's the one that started being sensitive...if he doesn't want anyone disagreeing with him, he shouldn't have an opinion or better yet keep quiet...what's he up to here then, to get students? This is a FORUM. Google FORUM...lol
[/quote]

Lol............ only appropriate when you've actually said something funny.

Of course they don't have to explain themselves, and they've expressed their superb opinions before, and I should perhaps not dare to ask them to repeat anything............ however I think this is a crappy attitude that stunts debate in a positive thread and it annoys me............ and if I get another PM from one of you guys parroting the same things, i.e." welcome to the Hogan club and here are the 6 posters and 10,000 posts you should read before stepping into the debate again", then I'm literally going die of laughter.......... absolute identical messages which either means there is one person posting with several profiles or the unofficial forum conformity protocol had been activated by my posts...........

Perhaps Bradley was overly sensitive but he was also very thorough and patient and its no doubt been of great value to certain people............ however the usual little group decided to call him a charlatan and money grabbing con-man who was pushing faulty theories or repackaging old theories all to rip off ignorant people......... really sad to watch.......... but I expected it and I should have told him it would end in tears........... you guys are predictable if nothing else, it was just going to take one challenge too many before you circled the wagons............

[ALIF]

FYI Brad, you most likely are the best player on this forum. I appreciate having someone w/ you talent and experience on here. Thanks for the info on the super slotting. Out of curiosity, how tall are you and what is the lie of your 5 iron?

[eightiron]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1343691671' post='5380648']
[quote name='Mike Divot' timestamp='1343690389' post='5380564']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1343657122' post='5377136']
Btw I'm curious as to why that teeace guy posted that you were banned from wrx , what name or names were you posting under before?
[/quote]

Yeah, Brad. Are you some kind of ... [i]commie?[/i]

Just [s]preserving our precious bodily fluids[/s] askin'.
[/quote]


You believe that crap post from someone else? Ignorance is bliss...
I was never banned....I have never been on here before except as my real name.....Never came to this forum until recently because of hearing all the BS with Sevam, Dariusz and others....thought I would give it a try as I received a request from someone to come write over here who liked my youtube videos and give some thoughts from my experiences. Should have known better and understand why they left and why slicefixer never posts here
I don't need to hide behind a screen name or make up stuff about other people.
[/quote]

My apologies Brad , i shouldn't have believed a word posted by him

[JBOMB808]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1343698768' post='5381462']
Did Hogan not have great dynamics with his "power golf" era swing?
[/quote]

I'm impressed. Someone knows them some Henny Bogan. I'd like to comment on your swing if I may. You definitely have the 'release' sequence worked out. I can tell by your 5 iron shots. They sound like you're 'leveraging' it pretty good and your practice follow-through shows you're for sure not flipping through. I would recommend putting your right arm 'asleep' so to speak and focus on that lead arm back and through the shot. Only allow the right arm to 'catch up' AFTER the ball, and try mentally not to hit @ or before it. You'll feel weak at first not using your dominant hand(swing wrecker) and *most likely start to lose shots to the right, but from there you can just dial in the rotation speed to close the clubface while keeping out any right side dominance (Hogan was left handed) and maybe a very small adjustment to the grip. That was after all Hogan's secret anyway when he started to tear up the game of golf - 'weak grip' and the cup basically guaranteed a fade and rid him completely of a hook. Hogan said himself,"The harder I hit it, the straighter it goes." Feel free to try it out or not. Keep up the good work in the dirt!

All 'Hoganites' should demonstrate a low-lofted wood off the deck or a long iron swing. Persimmon or blade optional. Hybrids are NOT welcome.
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LsvwnGVblc[/media]
Standard 2iron 5* flat (traditional 1iron loft)
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orDZRh2ZwXc[/media]

[ALIF]

Nice ball flight. Cool golf shoes too:)

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1343704942' post='5382068']
Nice ball flight. Cool golf shoes too:)
[/quote]

I know right? Hogan needed an extra spike in his shoe, he just needs flip flops............. Sam Snead would be proud.