Epon's Changing Business Model

[morebeerbettergolf]

It became apparent today that Epon pulled TSG's distributorship of their products as they are going to focus on a grass roots, direct, hands-on fitting type of sales structure. TSG has pulled all their Epon gear out of the pro shop and will no longer be associated with them.

 

I thought this was a very bold move on the part of Epon, and continues to show that they are a company hell bent on providing a fitting and playing experience like no other. They felt that internet sales compromised that philosophy, and will now eschew internet sales going forward.

 

They have always claimed they weren't about mass marketing and big sales numbers, and it appears they stand by that claim with this move.

 

I wonder if any other boutique type brands will move in the same direction or if Epon will stand alone in this. Regardless, I am sure it will cause some ripple effect until this thing is cleared up.

 

*EDIT* It has since become clear what TSG stance on this is, and more one of a middleman issue in which TSG is the possible victim. Not trying to start a war just thought it was news worth discussing.

[chocolatte]

Given the long relationship between TSG and Epon and the love that Epon got at their forum, this news definitely came as bit of a shocker.

At the end of the day, business is business.

Honestly tho, I never thought that buying boutique brands online was a good idea. A little too much investment for buying without hitting them first. Not that i havent done it numerous times tho..lol...

[Badgergolfer2]

That is a bold move on Epon's part. Im not sure that burning their bridges at TSG was a smart idea though.

[xxio]

If you read about Epon's philosophy from day1, this was their goal, except for TSG all other Epon accounts were clubbuilders with some sort of fitting ability.

It was more surprising that TSG had an account and for so long given they do 90% of communication/sales online.

I guess TSG's great customer service keep them in the list for that long..

[Vegaman]

I think, in this day and age, to shun the internet is kinda stupid. Sure, if Epon is bent on staying a small cult brand and are not interested in growing their sales, then it's a good move. Kinda like they actually want to only sell a certain number of clubs, and felt the growing popularity and sales figures somehow "diluted" the brand? otherwise, I don't think it's "bold" at all, more like childish and stupid. Plus, it's apparently not Epon the company that has pulled the plug on TSG, but their "international agent" that have some sort of exclusive agreement with Epon as to how the clubs are being marketed and sold.

[xxio]

If I'm not mistaken TWGT has the same philosophy.

Maybe Endo's numerous OEM orders cover all profits "needed" to be made. Not everyone has the goal to be number one in sales. Isn't that what drives most JDM boutique companies, to make great and useful products into the hands of the proper buyer.

It probably is the International Agent, but like I have said Epon's philosophy since day1 has always been properly built and fit golf clubs. In fact I thought it was a requirement to have a clubbuilding and club fitting capacity as a retailer.

Kind of hard to do fittings over the net unless your are willing to spend hours with video and phone calls as well. Last guy who did purely phone fittings had a "B" instead of a "T" and was exposed after a while.

Customer service is customer service, club fitting is a whole different business altogether.

[morebeerbettergolf]

TSG is portraying the victim and whatnot but there are some weird elements to the thing. I can't believe its as cut and dried as the official story makes it sound. Things like this generally brew for quite a while before they're served up.

There's way too much "I'll show you!" emotion coming from that camp to fully understand what's going on. The liquidation of personal Epon inventory 24 hours before pulling the brand out of the pro shop was in poor taste. Once things calm down I'm sure the big picture will become clearer.

Regardless, it will be interesting watching what Epon does with their brand and how TSG not handling them will ultimately affect them. I enjoy the TSG community and customer service so I hope it doesn't impact them negatively.

[lumberman2462]

Weird deal going on there. Unlikely that we'll ever get the entire story but those TSG guys seem pretty pissed and it sure reads like they don't like the [i]International Agent.[/i]

If it's true that [i]someone[/i] associated with Epon doesn't like the internet then that is just sad stupidity. If one is engaged in any business that sells things then I'm pretty sure it's important for potential customers to actually be able to [i]find out about your products.[/i] Internet(s) is pretty good for that sort of thing.

That business about not being able to talk about Epon in the forums or sell products in BST is incredibly stupid. I don't care what Epon, The International Agent or anybody anywhere associated with any of this (including the guys at TSG) have to say - if you own something and want to get on a BST forum and sell it someone else......you should be able to. Except drugs and other illegal stuff - you shouldn't be able to sell those on BST forums.

[bjp1]

The difficulty with this type of situation is that you'll see a value of the Epon brand questioned in direct contradiction to the marketing TSG has used to sell it.

Each of these products, even those reprised versions, were good enough to warrant its praise and price. With the change in relationship, those same value statements are undermined as though suddenly the products were never really that good.

I absolutely love my personalized AF-301's that I bought from TSG. But my hope was that the comments from TSG about Epon product would at least remain consistent so that people that have purchased from them recently don't get a sense that they didn't actually buy the best. Suddenly a Zen putter or Personals are seemingly of lesser quality, even worthy of being 'dumped' at bargain prices (discounts aside).

Now on to S-Yard it seems.

[Snufles]

No reason Epon couldn't keep doing both. Sounds like someone p!ss3d off the wrong person.

[potuna]

IMHO Epon is overrated and overpriced, to each his own.

[Scuderia]

Wow, such childish drama going on about this. I read everything on TSG and it's quite sad to see so many epon fans turn their back on Epon b/c of what happened. 2 sides to every story and 100% of those that now have the hate stick on Epon havent heard the other side. A bit premature to judge so quickly? LOL! Internet politics, gotta love it.

Lets not get all hot and bothered about TSG losing their account and jump on an Epon bashing wagon. TSG is not the end all of Epon products. You can buy from any dealer and if Im not mistaken, there's like 20 dealers in the US.

IMO, bad move for TSG to be publicly saying negative things about Epon (yes, I know he is bashing the main distributor but they are all related). As long as that company remains the main distributor, they can pretty much kiss any chance of getting back Epon products.

On a positive note I will be the first to say, I love my Epons and unless their R&D does down the crap chute which we all know will not, they will still produce awesome products.

[KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE]

Look out BST! Here comes the Epons

[xxio]

Do your own research on what is really happening, there are other people you can ask and piece things together.

Shades of TSG vs Whitlam, TSG vs Scratch, now TSG vs Epon.

[chiromikey]

[quote name='KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE' timestamp='1362700143' post='6567051']
Look out BST! Here comes the Epons
[/quote]

you [i]might[/i] see a few but you won't see a flooding of epons. they're still arguably some of the best clubs around and a disagreement with tsg doesn't change that.

[Scuderia]

[quote name='chiromikey' timestamp='1362706467' post='6567783']
[quote name='KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE' timestamp='1362700143' post='6567051']
Look out BST! Here comes the Epons
[/quote]

you [i]might[/i] see a few but you won't see a flooding of epons. they're still arguably some of the best clubs around and a disagreement with tsg doesn't change that.
[/quote]

I would take it a step further and say "the best" Epon=ENDO. How could it get any better?

[tbowles411]

[color=#000000]Well, let me put a different take on it.[/color]

[color=#000000]IMO, Epon is essentially the “Japanese Ping.” They’re going to do what they need to do to protect their brand. Companies generally do not drop their accounts if they are productive and following the rules they set forth. I suspect they are only telling part of the story. We don’t know if they were following the rules the Epon set forth such as MAP pricing for instance. If there was a violation, we don’t know if there were any warnings or anything. But to pull the account to me tells that it was pretty severe. TSG would definitely put a positive spin on it. Why wouldn’t they? They have a customer base too, and they don’t want to look bad in front of them. I understand that completely. They have to be the victim of an “unfair decision” or a “change in business model.”[/color]

[color=#000000]Personally speaking, as a consumer, I can go almost anywhere on the internet to research a product and get information I need in order to form an opinion. But to actually make a purchase, I want to talk to an actual fitter, not a distributer who just orders product and drop ships. There is no one to hold accountable if something goes wrong. I personally have friends who ordered from them and when they were told “10 Days” to receive their irons, at week 5, 6 and 9 respectively they were still waiting. After calls to TSG, nothing. Crickets. I recommended they call someone who deals with them and gave them my clubmaker’s info to see if he could help them track their order down. He called Epon for them to see the status was. Two orders were never received by Epon, another was simply waiting for order confirmation or some such. I’m sure they would have gotten their orders eventually, but when you just dropped $2000 on irons, you don’t want to hear an answering machine after being promised you’d have irons in hand in 10 days and no call back.[/color]

[color=#000000]Distributers don’t grow the brand IMO. They take orders and send them. Fitters such as mine near Dallas, and those on Epon’s site grow the brand because they are taking the time with each and every customer to make sure they get what they need after either watching them hit balls, or asking probing questions and using their years of experience to make sure they get into the irons and shafts they need and performance they expect. They can be held accountable as the face of a company. And now it’s up to them to continue Epon’s good name.[/color]

[color=#000000]Like I said, companies simply just don’t drop accounts without cause. There is more to this story, I’d be willing to bet money, and I don’t bet. I’m sure ordering from TSG was easy, but just because a website is cool and slick looking, doesn’t make a product good and I like going there to look around. However, only good customer service and a voice at the end of a phone, or on the other side of a counter can do that.[/color]

[Jamboy72]

[quote name='tbowles411' timestamp='1362715995' post='6568879']
[color=#000000]Well, let me put a different take on it.[/color]

[color=#000000]IMO, Epon is essentially the “Japanese Ping.” They’re going to do what they need to do to protect their brand. Companies generally do not drop their accounts if they are productive and following the rules they set forth. I suspect they are only telling part of the story. We don’t know if they were following the rules the Epon set forth such as MAP pricing for instance. If there was a violation, we don’t know if there were any warnings or anything. But to pull the account to me tells that it was pretty severe. TSG would definitely put a positive spin on it. Why wouldn’t they? They have a customer base too, and they don’t want to look bad in front of them. I understand that completely. They have to be the victim of an “unfair decision” or a “change in business model.”[/color]

[color=#000000]Personally speaking, as a consumer, I can go almost anywhere on the internet to research a product and get information I need in order to form an opinion. But to actually make a purchase, I want to talk to an actual fitter, not a distributer who just orders product and drop ships. There is no one to hold accountable if something goes wrong. I personally have friends who ordered from them and when they were told “10 Days” to receive their irons, at week 5, 6 and 9 respectively they were still waiting. After calls to TSG, nothing. Crickets. I recommended they call someone who deals with them and gave them my clubmaker’s info to see if he could help them track their order down. He called Epon for them to see the status was. Two orders were never received by Epon, another was simply waiting for order confirmation or some such. I’m sure they would have gotten their orders eventually, but when you just dropped $2000 on irons, you don’t want to hear an answering machine after being promised you’d have irons in hand in 10 days and no call back.[/color]

[color=#000000]Distributers don’t grow the brand IMO. They take orders and send them. Fitters such as mine near Dallas, and those on Epon’s site grow the brand because they are taking the time with each and every customer to make sure they get what they need after either watching them hit balls, or asking probing questions and using their years of experience to make sure they get into the irons and shafts they need and performance they expect. They can be held accountable as the face of a company. And now it’s up to them to continue Epon’s good name.[/color]

[color=#000000]Like I said, companies simply just don’t drop accounts without cause. There is more to this story, I’d be willing to bet money, and I don’t bet. I’m sure ordering from TSG was easy, but just because a website is cool and slick looking, doesn’t make a product good and I like going there to look around. However, only good customer service and a voice at the end of a phone, or on the other side of a counter can do that.[/color]
[/quote]

Well said - The only thing of which I'm certain, is that there is more to the story...and if I were a betting man, TSG would prefer they remain the "victim." if Epon really is as good as so many feel it is, I'm sure they'll be just fine...and perhaps more in line with their philosophy...

[smackygolf]

[quote name='tbowles411' timestamp='1362715995' post='6568879']
[color=#000000]Well, let me put a different take on it.[/color]

[color=#000000]IMO, Epon is essentially the “Japanese Ping.” They’re going to do what they need to do to protect their brand. Companies generally do not drop their accounts if they are productive and following the rules they set forth. I suspect they are only telling part of the story. We don’t know if they were following the rules the Epon set forth such as MAP pricing for instance. If there was a violation, we don’t know if there were any warnings or anything. But to pull the account to me tells that it was pretty severe. TSG would definitely put a positive spin on it. Why wouldn’t they? They have a customer base too, and they don’t want to look bad in front of them. I understand that completely. They have to be the victim of an “unfair decision” or a “change in business model.”[/color]

[color=#000000]Personally speaking, as a consumer, I can go almost anywhere on the internet to research a product and get information I need in order to form an opinion. But to actually make a purchase, I want to talk to an actual fitter, not a distributer who just orders product and drop ships. There is no one to hold accountable if something goes wrong. I personally have friends who ordered from them and when they were told “10 Days” to receive their irons, at week 5, 6 and 9 respectively they were still waiting. After calls to TSG, nothing. Crickets. I recommended they call someone who deals with them and gave them my clubmaker’s info to see if he could help them track their order down. He called Epon for them to see the status was. Two orders were never received by Epon, another was simply waiting for order confirmation or some such. I’m sure they would have gotten their orders eventually, but when you just dropped $2000 on irons, you don’t want to hear an answering machine after being promised you’d have irons in hand in 10 days and no call back.[/color]

[color=#000000]Distributers don’t grow the brand IMO. They take orders and send them. Fitters such as mine near Dallas, and those on Epon’s site grow the brand because they are taking the time with each and every customer to make sure they get what they need after either watching them hit balls, or asking probing questions and using their years of experience to make sure they get into the irons and shafts they need and performance they expect. They can be held accountable as the face of a company. And now it’s up to them to continue Epon’s good name.[/color]

[color=#000000]Like I said, companies simply just don’t drop accounts without cause. There is more to this story, I’d be willing to bet money, and I don’t bet. I’m sure ordering from TSG was easy, but just because a website is cool and slick looking, doesn’t make a product good and I like going there to look around. However, only good customer service and a voice at the end of a phone, or on the other side of a counter can do that.[/color]
[/quote]

This is a DOOZY my brother. It'll be out soon enough. You are very closet to having it dead on. Gonna be some panties in a bunch real soon.

[xxio]

Bits and pieces are already leaking out. What is true, what is not. I wonder how the damage control will be on this one.

Whitlam is a good guy but did not have the time or resources to counteract. Scratch being a niche company probably figured it was more trouble than it was worth. However Epon has a solid reputation and Endo is a giant in the industry. Interesting to see how this will pan out.

[morebeerbettergolf]

The plot thickens.....

[Big Ben]

I've dabbled in the JDM market for years and played most of the bigger brands such as Tourstage, PRGR and Yamaha. It's fun to tinker with unique products not seen in the US on a regular basis. Having said that I've steered very clear of the boutique brands for reasons such as this, just to risky when the honeymoon period ends. It's my guess the Epon brand simply does not hold top billing at Endo and for this reason alone will take a back seat to large scale production of other major Asian OEM's...BB

[morebeerbettergolf]

And USDM

[Big Ben]

Yes USDM too, I can think of plenty examples here as well, not to marginalize the quality one bit but outside the niche marketplace you will be SOL if you choose to move on. Let's face it, as HO's we will be moving on...BB

[Super Tuna]

A: I hope it doesn't thicken too much

B: If someone has a set of RF551's that they want to drop due to the kerfuffle I'm all ears...

[chocolatte]

Another thing that people forgot to mention is that how much does "Endo" really care about the "Epon" business?

Endo is the biggest forging house in Japan and they forge for almost everyone. That's where the cash is coming from.

Epon, in my personal opinion, is a prestige thing for them. It's a chance to showcase their in-house design and craftmanship.

If they overly market their in-house brand, it would undoubtedly affect their relationship with all the companies they forge for.

edit: oops just saw above that this point has been raised. my bad!

[chiromikey]

[quote name='Big Ben' timestamp='1362720458' post='6569229']
...I've steered very clear of the boutique brands for reasons such as this, just to risky when the honeymoon period ends. It's my guess the Epon brand simply does not hold top billing at Endo and for this reason alone will take a back seat to large scale production of other major Asian OEM's...BB
[/quote]

i don't see how either of these two situations would make owning epon risky. i think the epon brand will continue to hold top billing at endo even though it has most likely always taken a back seat to oem productions. i'm also sure epon will continue on as endo's show-case brand under a new master with or without tsg.

[chocolatte]

I love buying stuff from TSG. They are professional, knowledgeble, and fast. Tario is a great guy to work with.

However, I find it a bit amusing that before TSG lost the account, Epon was consisntely heralded as the very best Japan forged irons by their forum members. Now, the same group of people are criticizing Epon for lack of new products, out of touch, and then vow to never buy Epon again.

All I can say is TSG commands a lot of loyalty.

[tbowles411]

[quote name='mastaj508' timestamp='1362735869' post='6569635']
I love buying stuff from TSG. They are professional, knowledgeble, and fast. Tario is a great guy to work with.

However, I find it a bit amusing that before TSG lost the account, Epon was consisntely heralded as the very best Japan forged irons by their forum members. Now, the same group of people are criticizing Epon for lack of new products, out of touch, and then vow to never buy Epon again.

All I can say is TSG commands a lot of loyalty.
[/quote]
I just hope that loyalty is not misplaced. There is more to this story that they are willing to tell. I don't think Epon is the problem here.

[Shambles]

[quote name='morebeerbettergolf' timestamp='1362626657' post='6561573']
It became apparent today that Epon pulled TSG's distributorship of their products as they are going to focus on a grass roots, direct, hands-on fitting type of sales structure. TSG has pulled all their Epon gear out of the pro shop and will no longer be associated with them.

I thought this was a very bold move on the part of Epon, and continues to show that they are a company hell bent on providing a fitting and playing experience like no other. They felt that internet sales compromised that philosophy, and will now eschew internet sales going forward.

They have always claimed they weren't about mass marketing and big sales numbers, and it appears they stand by that claim with this move.

I wonder if any other boutique type brands will move in the same direction or if Epon will stand alone in this. Regardless, I am sure it will cause some ripple effect until this thing is cleared up.

*EDIT* It has since become clear what TSG stance on this is, and more one of a middleman issue in which TSG is the possible victim. Not trying to start a war just thought it was news worth discussing.
[/quote]

Sounds like a very expensive and high overhead business model to me.


Shambles