The Arm Swing Illusion / Jim Waldron's Swing Philosophy

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='jay au' timestamp='1438496485' post='12062916']
Hi Jim, love both videos.

I normally have a shoulder turn too flat on the way back and drag inside so it has been great to feel like I have more room. I noticed my shoulder has now been working a bit lower which is great.

I am having problems with slicing across the ball though, while I attempting the swing from the video. Seems to go away a bit when I shut face on way back but I am sure that is not a good habit.

Any suggestions for common reasons why someone might be swing left with face open I guess?
[/quote]

It could be that you are over-doing the concept of "in front" and you end up with your hands too close to mid-line at the Top. That would likely result in a slice, or pull slice. The ideal is hands in that 45-70 degree range, depending on the club, in the waiters tray position. Most folks suffer from too much to the right of mid-line and too close to the body at the Top. But the opposite flaw can also be a problem area. Pretty common for golfers to overdo the fix, mainly due to very strong tendency to indulge in Fallacy of the Extremes kind of thinking, or as Harvey Penick said, "taking the whole bottle of aspirin."

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='WolfWRX' timestamp='1438517758' post='12063304']
I have both videos and am very much enjoying them. I highly recommend them to anyone thinking of ordering.

This thread has been enlightening to say the least, but seeing Jim demonstrate some of the concepts discussed at length here has helped me no end. I've been doing lots of repetition and mirror work and I really think it's starting to pay off. I have always struggled with a flat backswing and chronic arm overrun (that's what happens when you are trying to swing your arms from side to side). To put it another way, I was a total victim of the illusion! Using the push away and ASI concepts, my backswing is suddenly much shorter, more compact and 'on plane'.

A bigger change in feel though has been on the downswing. Again, I've always had a big lateral arm motion and consequent problems with inconsistent contact, flipping, EE etc. Feeling like my arms work down my chest, at the same time as my torso and shoulder girdle rotates is [i]light years[/i] from what I was doing. I now properly understand why I flipped and EE'd for years and why I could never maintain a bent right wrist at impact. I like the woodchopping drill for helping ingrain this motion.

I'm a long way from mastering either the back or downswings, but feel like I now have a radically improved intellectual understanding of what I should be doing.

Jim, quick question and apologies if this has been discussed earlier in the thread. It seems to me, your ideas are quite unique in the golf instruction industry. Why is it we never hear these ideas from other instructors? Also, without naming names, have you ever experienced any 'resistance' to your ideas from fellow professionals?
[/quote]

Thanks for your feedback and good to learn the concept is helping you!

Many instructors have a vague notion of the "in front" concept, some have it way wrong and think hands are in line with mid-line of the torso. Years ago one of my assistants and I watched a well know teacher on the Golf Channel do a nice 10 minute segment on "keeping the arms in front", which we loved, then went to commercial break, came back on and then he did a 10 minute segment on the takeaway in which he advocated for "swinging the left arm across and around your chest", which resulted in my assistant and I yelling at the TV and throwing wads of paper at it, "Idiot! - you just spent 10 minutes telling millions of golfers to keep the arms in front, and now you are telling to do the exact opposite! No wonder golfers are frustrated!".

I did a PGA education seminar about 15 years ago in which one of the pros in attendance actually came up onto the stage and tried to show the audience why the whole ASI concept was wrong...and I am not kidding. He actually came up and grabbed the microphone from me and stated his view of the golf swing, which of course was all 2D based thinking. So I have become somewhat accustomed to the resistance. He later apologized and I was able to show him a few drills that changed his thinking about the golf swing. I recall what I said to Tom Weiskopf in regards to a Hogan lesson which advocated for an ASI concept applying to the release "Well - that can't be right! Everyone knows you have to swing your arms across your chest." So I know how powerful 2D illusions can be.

So in the main, I think a lot of teachers are really only just "paying lip service" to the idea. The illusion is extremely powerful. But on the whole I think there is a clear trend toward a new understanding of the golf swing in 3D terms. It still has a long way to go. And you are fighting human nature. Unless your brain works like a Stephen Hawking or an Einstein, you are hard-wired to "think" in 2D pictures. I mentioned the Buddhist meditation technique of seeing the world by paying attention to the depth dimension. You can even see that in art history, with the restoration of the depth dimension in painting starting in the Renaissance, after several hundred years of Dark Ages art where more 2D paintings were the norm.

And some of the resistance is the Dunningl-Krueger effect, ie you dont know what you don't know, and incompetent and ignorant people are often times the ones who cannot see their ignorance and incompetence due to that "blind spot". You see it in the golf forums with the same trolls posting the same nonsense time after time.

[jay au]

Thanks so much for the reply Jim. I will try that.

[PJ1120]

Jim....I have to go back and take a look at Module 2 again but is their any conscious thought of supination and ulnar deviation from P6 to P7? Sorry if you addressed this already and I missed it.

[Jim Waldron]

I teach most students a passive wrist c0ck release. Proper grip position and pressure, when blended with an active Pivot Thrust, will create a force that will snap open the wrists and roll the forearms.

[firstbatch]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1438730208' post='12079402']
I teach most students a passive wrist c0ck release. Proper grip position and pressure, when blended with an active Pivot Thrust, will create a force that will snap open the wrists and roll the forearms.
[/quote]
On that note Jim would you mind commenting on Sasho Mckenzie and Cumos video about the passive torque release theory in this video? Seems like it fits right in with your teaching

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iuJaSM7Kexw

[ofortuna]

[quote name='firstbatch' timestamp='1438737924' post='12080102'] [quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1438730208' post='12079402'] I teach most students a passive wrist c0ck release. Proper grip position and pressure, when blended with an active Pivot Thrust, will create a force that will snap open the wrists and roll the forearms. [/quote] On that note Jim would you mind commenting on Sasho Mckenzie and Cumos video about the passive torque release theory in this video? Seems like it fits right in with your teaching https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iuJaSM7Kexw [/quote]

Wow fascinating video! Thanks for sharing.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='firstbatch' timestamp='1438737924' post='12080102']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1438730208' post='12079402']
I teach most students a passive wrist c0ck release. Proper grip position and pressure, when blended with an active Pivot Thrust, will create a force that will snap open the wrists and roll the forearms.
[/quote]
On that note Jim would you mind commenting on Sasho Mckenzie and Cumos video about the passive torque release theory in this video? Seems like it fits right in with your teaching

[url="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iuJaSM7Kexw"]https://m.youtube.co...h?v=iuJaSM7Kexw[/url]
[/quote]

Basically the same concept. Although this is certainly not a new or original concept, not by a long shot. The notion of passive vs active release has been around golf instruction for a long, long time. That you generate a force when you Pivot Thrust, an outward pulling force acting on the wrist joint, is easily demonstrated. As long as you are not actively holding on with muscular effort, ie if your grip pressure is not too tight, and your forearm and wrist muscles are truly passive, then you can feel the force snap open the wrist angles. There are many training aids on the market based on this principle.

Years ago I was playing around with a friend's ball retriever, the kind that telescopes out to be about 12 feet long. I was swinging at about half speed and noticed how it snapped open from its 4 foot long length to the full 12 feet. I used it the next day in our golf school to demonstrate the concept and forgot to swing at half speed, did a full speed swing and the force was so strong that the sections flew apart completely!

You dont have to have the clubhead below your hand path plane for that force to work though, as was implied in the video. It just is more powerful doing it that way.

[firstbatch]

Excellent, thanks much for taking time to comment. It is amazing how excess tension and grip pressure in the hands & forearms can absolutely ruin your release and an otherwise sound swing at the last micro second of the through swing......but you have been talking about that for a long time and its a great example of how the hit/steer/scoop impulse manifests itself. I think you said one time that a large portion of your brain is dedicated to those hand muscles and they can have a "mind" all their own some days.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='firstbatch' timestamp='1438793197' post='12083530']
Excellent, thanks much for taking time to comment. It is amazing how excess tension and grip pressure in the hands & forearms can absolutely ruin your release and an otherwise sound swing at the last micro second of the through swing......but you have been talking about that for a long time and its a great example of how the hit/steer/scoop impulse manifests itself. I think you said one time that a large portion of your brain is dedicated to those hand muscles and they can have a "mind" all their own some days.
[/quote]

Yep, and that excess tension is extremely common, almost a certainty if your handicap is around ten or higher. In my experience, proper grip and grip pressures are really essential and often over-looked fundamentals. No point in working on your Release timing if your grip and pressures are way off!

Nine elements in my Educated Hands system. Pretty important stuff....

[ofortuna]

Hi Jim,

I had a range session this morning where everything just fell apart. It was especially frustrating since I had made some improvements in my ball striking recently. I went through my notes and tried to find some baseline to making decent contact. 9-3 swings. Feet together drill. Nothing was working. I was hitting all kinds of random shots: fat, thin, shanking, coming over the top. From experience, when I get in this mode of reverting into my old habits it's hard to get out.

I then started doing the various Jug McSpaden ball striking drills and was able to miraculously make solid contact with some short irons. However when I tried to blend the pushaway with the pivot it was very difficult like I was learning it for the first time again. It really felt like I was picking the club straight up which felt wrong. I guess snatching the club way inside is so ingrained that when I go into autopilot mode for a while, those habits find itself back into my swing.

I had less success with the full McSpaden today with woods with the ball on a tee and forget about a blended backswing. All long clubs were a disaster. Just one of those days I guess. I've had them before and I'll have them again but I feel good that at least I have a reference point that I can fall back on when I lose my swing. Actually I want to lose my swing so I can build a new one but it keeps following me like bad a memory.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='ofortuna' timestamp='1438879536' post='12090098']
Hi Jim,

I had a range session this morning where everything just fell apart. It was especially frustrating since I had made some improvements in my ball striking recently. I went through my notes and tried to find some baseline to making decent contact. 9-3 swings. Feet together drill. Nothing was working. I was hitting all kinds of random shots: fat, thin, shanking, coming over the top. From experience, when I get in this mode of reverting into my old habits it's hard to get out.

I then started doing the various Jug McSpaden ball striking drills and was able to miraculously make solid contact with some short irons. However when I tried to blend the pushaway with the pivot it was very difficult like I was learning it for the first time again. It really felt like I was picking the club straight up which felt wrong. I guess snatching the club way inside is so ingrained that when I go into autopilot mode for a while, those habits find itself back into my swing.

I had less success with the full McSpaden today with woods with the ball on a tee and forget about a blended backswing. All long clubs were a disaster. Just one of those days I guess. I've had them before and I'll have them again but I feel good that at least I have a reference point that I can fall back on when I lose my swing. Actually I want to lose my swing so I can build a new one but it keeps following me like bad a memory.
[/quote]

You need to tape yourself - at a minimum - to see what your body and club are actually doing, especially on those inevitable bad ballstriking days that we all experience as golfers. Usually you are doing something that is 100% unconscious and very toxic, and if your swing knowledge is decent, you may instantly see it. If not, it just means you need a lesson. I say that all the time here and I mean it. Self-directed swing learning without professional feedback carries risk of exactly this kind of experience. A lesson will almost always quickly steer you back on track.

Sometimes those bad range days are due to poor mental focus, ie a wandering mind, which causes one or more flinches to happen in your body. Another common cause is poor Balance. I see guys who are struggling in self-directed slumps all the time, they come to see me with no clue, and their whole body is often rocking toward their toes during the swing. Fix that loss of balance and instantly they start making solid contact again.

[ofortuna]

Thanks Jim, I'll do that. I wish I can record my swing more often but the only time I'm finding to practice is around dawn and no one is available. I have a tripod I used to use with an old camcorder but need something to mount my phone onto.

[Jim Waldron]

If you guys get a chance, watch "road to the pga" on golf channel. There is some fantastic slow motion footage of Rory that if you can play it back in even more slow mo on your DVR, you can really see through the ASI. You can literally "see" the SuperConnection of his upper arms to chest during his Release.

You will see that his chest is running into his upper arms, especially his left arm, as his arms come to a complete stop in the horizontal dimension independently. Just the opposite of how most golfers swing. In DVR super slow mo setting, this is clearly something you can see. Its not that you are pressing your upper arms into your pecs so much as it is that your torso is turning to your left rapidly in a spiral shape, and your arms are doing nothing, and so the body is pressing into the arms. When you have a high level of insight and understanding about the Illusion, you will be able to see this.

You will also see how his upper left arm is literally moving away from the target direction, opposite of how most golfers think.

[flopshot99]

Jim your posts and feedback are sensational

[fmzip]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1438880798' post='12090208']
Another common cause is poor Balance. I see guys who are struggling in self-directed slumps all the time, they come to see me with no clue, and their whole body is often rocking toward their toes during the swing. Fix that loss of balance and instantly they start making solid contact again.
[/quote]

I think Jim and I had a lesson already and neither of us really knew it! Describes me exactly, bad balance, bad results! Interesting how swinging around oneself makes the weight go toward the toes lol

It's tough to change in practice and particularly play. The blended move reminds me of the difficulty of tapping my head with one hand and rubbing my belly with the other. I feel that uncoordinated.

What's nice though is the result as to how easy it is to hit a shot when done correctly. Need to stick with it! An Ipad at the driving range on a tripod with a remote is your best friend

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='fmzip' timestamp='1438914643' post='12093536']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1438880798' post='12090208']
Another common cause is poor Balance. I see guys who are struggling in self-directed slumps all the time, they come to see me with no clue, and their whole body is often rocking toward their toes during the swing. Fix that loss of balance and instantly they start making solid contact again.
[/quote]

I think Jim and I had a lesson already and neither of us really knew it! Describes me exactly, bad balance, bad results! Interesting how swinging around oneself makes the weight go toward the toes lol

It's tough to change in practice and particularly play. The blended move reminds me of the difficulty of tapping my head with one hand and rubbing my belly with the other. I feel that uncoordinated.

What's nice though is the result as to how easy it is to hit a shot when done correctly. Need to stick with it! An Ipad at the driving range on a tripod with a remote is your best friend
[/quote]

If by "blended move" you mean the blend of arm pushaway with Pivot, I agree 100% - it is exactly like rubbing your tummy and patting your head. So much of the golf swing is that issue of coordination, really of the three main mechanical puzzle pieces - pivot, upper arms and wrists/right arm at elbow, along with sensing staying in good Balance, and at good Tempo. I think a lot of average golfers issues is that they lack insight into how much of their difficulty comes not so much from not understanding what to do intellectually, but rather in accepting that the tough part is the blending of those things.

Clearly there is no "secret" to it or "magic move" - which is why I have been calling for a shift in golf instruction away from a purely and exclusively mechanical/science/physics/geometry baseline approach, and to begin to allow some space for the Neuroscience aspects, and coordination of the body, doing two opposite direction motions simultaneously, is just one example of that. That kind of coordination is mostly about awareness - in Feel channel - of the body, with a focused mind, And starting with slow motion mirror work is also a part of that approach.

[fmzip]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1438916049' post='12093722']
[quote name='fmzip' timestamp='1438914643' post='12093536']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1438880798' post='12090208']
Another common cause is poor Balance. I see guys who are struggling in self-directed slumps all the time, they come to see me with no clue, and their whole body is often rocking toward their toes during the swing. Fix that loss of balance and instantly they start making solid contact again.
[/quote]

I think Jim and I had a lesson already and neither of us really knew it! Describes me exactly, bad balance, bad results! Interesting how swinging around oneself makes the weight go toward the toes lol

It's tough to change in practice and particularly play. The blended move reminds me of the difficulty of tapping my head with one hand and rubbing my belly with the other. I feel that uncoordinated.

What's nice though is the result as to how easy it is to hit a shot when done correctly. Need to stick with it! An Ipad at the driving range on a tripod with a remote is your best friend
[/quote]

If by "blended move" you mean the blend of arm pushaway with Pivot, I agree 100% - it is exactly like rubbing your tummy and patting your head. So much of the golf swing is that issue of coordination, really of the three main mechanical puzzle pieces - pivot, upper arms and wrists/right arm at elbow, along with sensing staying in good Balance, and at good Tempo. I think a lot of average golfers issues is that they lack insight into how much of their difficulty comes not so much from not understanding what to do intellectually, but rather in accepting that the tough part is the blending of those things.

Clearly there is no "secret" to it or "magic move" - which is why I have been calling for a shift in golf instruction away from a purely and exclusively mechanical/science/physics/geometry baseline approach, and to begin to allow some space for the Neuroscience aspects, and coordination of the body, doing two opposite direction motions simultaneously, is just one example of that. That kind of coordination is mostly about awareness - in Feel channel - of the body, with a focused mind, And starting with slow motion mirror work is also a part of that approach.
[/quote]

Totally agree, I was doing the pivot/45 degree arm (blended move) with my eyes closed at the range today. The feel channel is key.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='fmzip' timestamp='1438918110' post='12093874']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1438916049' post='12093722']
[quote name='fmzip' timestamp='1438914643' post='12093536']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1438880798' post='12090208']
Another common cause is poor Balance. I see guys who are struggling in self-directed slumps all the time, they come to see me with no clue, and their whole body is often rocking toward their toes during the swing. Fix that loss of balance and instantly they start making solid contact again.
[/quote]

I think Jim and I had a lesson already and neither of us really knew it! Describes me exactly, bad balance, bad results! Interesting how swinging around oneself makes the weight go toward the toes lol

It's tough to change in practice and particularly play. The blended move reminds me of the difficulty of tapping my head with one hand and rubbing my belly with the other. I feel that uncoordinated.

What's nice though is the result as to how easy it is to hit a shot when done correctly. Need to stick with it! An Ipad at the driving range on a tripod with a remote is your best friend
[/quote]

If by "blended move" you mean the blend of arm pushaway with Pivot, I agree 100% - it is exactly like rubbing your tummy and patting your head. So much of the golf swing is that issue of coordination, really of the three main mechanical puzzle pieces - pivot, upper arms and wrists/right arm at elbow, along with sensing staying in good Balance, and at good Tempo. I think a lot of average golfers issues is that they lack insight into how much of their difficulty comes not so much from not understanding what to do intellectually, but rather in accepting that the tough part is the blending of those things.

Clearly there is no "secret" to it or "magic move" - which is why I have been calling for a shift in golf instruction away from a purely and exclusively mechanical/science/physics/geometry baseline approach, and to begin to allow some space for the Neuroscience aspects, and coordination of the body, doing two opposite direction motions simultaneously, is just one example of that. That kind of coordination is mostly about awareness - in Feel channel - of the body, with a focused mind, And starting with slow motion mirror work is also a part of that approach.
[/quote]

Totally agree, I was doing the pivot/45 degree arm (blended move) with my eyes closed at the range today. The feel channel is key.
[/quote]

Yes - you can play golf by feel, and well. You cannot play your best golf by thought - seeing internal visual images of your swing, or worse - "talking to body parts". For mid to high handicaps especially, thinking about the swing during the swing almost always will result in some form of a flinch.

That whole concept is brilliantly explained by Percy Boomer in his classic instruction book "On Learning Golf". He talks about creating "lines of control based on feel".

The sequence of making a swing change is:1. conceptually understanding the change, and why it is a good thing. 2. achieving a "light bulb moment" of Deep Insight about the change,ie that means your subconscious mind has understood it. 3. lots of slow motion mirror work to ingrain the "look" of proper Outer Form. 4. half speed mirror work. 5. slow motion work with eyes closed, then open at your ending static position to check your Form. Associate a feel for that new move. 6. half speed eyes closed training in Feel channel. 7. hitting balls at half speed, mind in Feel channel.

[ChrisDowning]

Just to keep things going - my take on Jim's teaching. I always saw the swing as an arms and hands action at the start. Afterall, you see almost anyone pick up a club and they will hit the ball with a combination of hand hit and a swingof the arms from static shoulders. Later on I learned it was all about turning - and all the time the gof coach was fighting my inner ideas about how the swing was done "naturally". Once you have started down that road its mighty difficult to take out a sideways hinging of the wrists - it comes back bigtime of you do a sharp takeaway for a pitch, a fast takeback of the clubhead in a full shot, or try to do a hit with the right hand at impact - its so "natural" to engage a wrist hinge backwards and forwards.

So a recent light bulb moment finding one of Jim's videos talking about only cocking up and down was just what I was searching for. I was beginning to think it could be done but didn't really uderstand how. I suppose I was looking for an action that could remove my habitual "flip" in the wrists. This was it! Clang!!

The first time I tried this on the course it seeme a strange feeling - but it was so unbelievably accurate and straight. I suddenly felt I could put the ball exactly where I wanted. However like all new things that 'feeling' fades in a few holes so this is now a work in progress. But I definately feel the up and down wrist cocking only is the way to go. Suddenly I can see pros doing this on videos and I also now understand what that big thump is when you are standing near a pro at a Tour event - its the club coming down due to the release of the wrist c0ck DOWN to impact. I can now feel that in my swing - sometimes - OK - its work in progress!!

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='ChrisDowning' timestamp='1439019455' post='12099956']
Just to keep things going - my take on Jim's teaching. I always saw the swing as an arms and hands action at the start. Afterall, you see almost anyone pick up a club and they will hit the ball with a combination of hand hit and a swingof the arms from static shoulders. Later on I learned it was all about turning - and all the time the gof coach was fighting my inner ideas about how the swing was done "naturally". Once you have started down that road its mighty difficult to take out a sideways hinging of the wrists - it comes back bigtime of you do a sharp takeaway for a pitch, a fast takeback of the clubhead in a full shot, or try to do a hit with the right hand at impact - its so "natural" to engage a wrist hinge backwards and forwards.

So a recent light bulb moment finding one of Jim's videos talking about only cocking up and down was just what I was searching for. I was beginning to think it could be done but didn't really uderstand how. I suppose I was looking for an action that could remove my habitual "flip" in the wrists. This was it! Clang!!

The first time I tried this on the course it seeme a strange feeling - but it was so unbelievably accurate and straight. I suddenly felt I could put the ball exactly where I wanted. However like all new things that 'feeling' fades in a few holes so this is now a work in progress. But I definately feel the up and down wrist cocking only is the way to go. Suddenly I can see pros doing this on videos and I also now understand what that big thump is when you are standing near a pro at a Tour event - its the club coming down due to the release of the wrist c0ck DOWN to impact. I can now feel that in my swing - sometimes - OK - its work in progress!!
[/quote]

Pretty cool light bulb moment! And a really big one for lots of my students. There are other causes for sideways wrist flipping, but most common one for mid to high handicaps, is just this - it is natural to "throw" the wrists sideways. A subset of the Arm Swing Illusion is called the Wrist Illusion, which I have posted about here before.

[chigolfer1]

Jim, you bring up interesting points about doing slow motion work to ingrain the proper "outer look." (Step 3) As a decent athlete with enough flexibility to at least approximate a pro's look, I've been frustrated that instructors can't seem to guide me on how my body should move to approximate a look so I can at least understand what it would feel like. Therefore, I have spent a lot of my summer moving my body through a swing, going back to the video, etc. on my own and have been quite surprised in certain areas on how to achieve a look. For instance, I dont think I ever understood how much the shoulders move out/rotate in the second half of downswing or how for me the hands feel like they are going straight towards the target. I realize we aren't supposed to "chase positions" but I was so frustrated with not knowing how to move my body and the associated feel I decided to experiment myself. This is mostly just rambling but if I do have a question for you I guess it is, do you think this is a good idea what I'm doing?


[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1439001202' post='12099214']
[quote name='fmzip' timestamp='1438918110' post='12093874']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1438916049' post='12093722']
[quote name='fmzip' timestamp='1438914643' post='12093536']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1438880798' post='12090208']
Another common cause is poor Balance. I see guys who are struggling in self-directed slumps all the time, they come to see me with no clue, and their whole body is often rocking toward their toes during the swing. Fix that loss of balance and instantly they start making solid contact again.
[/quote]

I think Jim and I had a lesson already and neither of us really knew it! Describes me exactly, bad balance, bad results! Interesting how swinging around oneself makes the weight go toward the toes lol

It's tough to change in practice and particularly play. The blended move reminds me of the difficulty of tapping my head with one hand and rubbing my belly with the other. I feel that uncoordinated.

What's nice though is the result as to how easy it is to hit a shot when done correctly. Need to stick with it! An Ipad at the driving range on a tripod with a remote is your best friend
[/quote]

If by "blended move" you mean the blend of arm pushaway with Pivot, I agree 100% - it is exactly like rubbing your tummy and patting your head. So much of the golf swing is that issue of coordination, really of the three main mechanical puzzle pieces - pivot, upper arms and wrists/right arm at elbow, along with sensing staying in good Balance, and at good Tempo. I think a lot of average golfers issues is that they lack insight into how much of their difficulty comes not so much from not understanding what to do intellectually, but rather in accepting that the tough part is the blending of those things.

Clearly there is no "secret" to it or "magic move" - which is why I have been calling for a shift in golf instruction away from a purely and exclusively mechanical/science/physics/geometry baseline approach, and to begin to allow some space for the Neuroscience aspects, and coordination of the body, doing two opposite direction motions simultaneously, is just one example of that. That kind of coordination is mostly about awareness - in Feel channel - of the body, with a focused mind, And starting with slow motion mirror work is also a part of that approach.
[/quote]

Totally agree, I was doing the pivot/45 degree arm (blended move) with my eyes closed at the range today. The feel channel is key.
[/quote]

Yes - you can play golf by feel, and well. You cannot play your best golf by thought - seeing internal visual images of your swing, or worse - "talking to body parts". For mid to high handicaps especially, thinking about the swing during the swing almost always will result in some form of a flinch.

That whole concept is brilliantly explained by Percy Boomer in his classic instruction book "On Learning Golf". He talks about creating "lines of control based on feel".

The sequence of making a swing change is:1. conceptually understanding the change, and why it is a good thing. 2. achieving a "light bulb moment" of Deep Insight about the change,ie that means your subconscious mind has understood it. 3. lots of slow motion mirror work to ingrain the "look" of proper Outer Form. 4. half speed mirror work. 5. slow motion work with eyes closed, then open at your ending static position to check your Form. Associate a feel for that new move. 6. half speed eyes closed training in Feel channel. 7. hitting balls at half speed, mind in Feel channel.
[/quote]

[rteach1]

Jim,

When will the physical DVDs be made available for the modules that are already out and for the future modules? Also, I am sending you a PM on which modules would be most appropriate for me. Thank you.

rteach1

[Jim Waldron]

Chi - I am not 100% clear about your question. Sounds like you are "chasing a feel" more than "chasing positions". This is an issue with a lot of mis-conceptions. The rule here is - proper mechanics come first, then your mind associates a feel for that mechanics. Which is why if you are working on moving body part changes, you need to do it in slow motion in front of a mirror. The mirror allows you to see in real time if in fact you are doing the mechanics - or not. And when are are in proper Form, you see it, and then close your eyes and feel it. Then you move with eyes closed, and feel it - open your eyes, look in the mirror to see if your Form is correct. Then move on to half speed. If done daily, over time, your subconscious mind Swing Map "gets the message" and you will begin to do the new mechanics and full speed, and you associate a feel with that. You use video camera to verify. Then you can recall that feeling as you set up to hit the shot, and simply by holding that feeling memory in your mind, allow your body to react to that memory and create a good swing.

And I don't buy that we are not supposed to "chase positions" - that term has a nice ring to it, sounds good, but is mostly nonsense and an over-simplification. Of course you should "chase positions" - but not at full speed, only slow motion and half speed.

There are no Universal Feels, you just have to do it first and then associate a feel, and how you feel it will not be the same as the golfer next to you.

[quote name='rteach1' timestamp='1439304504' post='12116510']
Jim,

When will the physical DVDs be made available for the modules that are already out and for the future modules? Also, I am sending you a PM on which modules would be most appropriate for me. Thank you.

rteach1
[/quote]

PM sent

[chigolfer1]

Thanks Jim, you answered it. In short, while what I'm attempting isn't as systematic as what you describe below, its close enough for me to think its not futile and I think I'll integrate some of the other steps you list below.


[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1439309942' post='12117114']
Chi - I am not 100% clear about your question. Sounds like you are "chasing a feel" more than "chasing positions". This is an issue with a lot of mis-conceptions. The rule here is - proper mechanics come first, then your mind associates a feel for that mechanics. Which is why if you are working on moving body part changes, you need to do it in slow motion in front of a mirror. The mirror allows you to see in real time if in fact you are doing the mechanics - or not. And when are are in proper Form, you see it, and then close your eyes and feel it. Then you move with eyes closed, and feel it - open your eyes, look in the mirror to see if your Form is correct. Then move on to half speed. If done daily, over time, your subconscious mind Swing Map "gets the message" and you will begin to do the new mechanics and full speed, and you associate a feel with that. You use video camera to verify. Then you can recall that feeling as you set up to hit the shot, and simply by holding that feeling memory in your mind, allow your body to react to that memory and create a good swing.

And I don't buy that we are not supposed to "chase positions" - that term has a nice ring to it, sounds good, but is mostly nonsense and an over-simplification. Of course you should "chase positions" - but not at full speed, only slow motion and half speed.

There are no Universal Feels, you just have to do it first and then associate a feel, and how you feel it will not be the same as the golfer next to you.

[quote name='rteach1' timestamp='1439304504' post='12116510']
Jim,

When will the physical DVDs be made available for the modules that are already out and for the future modules? Also, I am sending you a PM on which modules would be most appropriate for me. Thank you.

rteach1
[/quote]

PM sent
[/quote]

[Jim Waldron]

Just a quick update on the video series Great Shot! Module One Part B is almost done, should be up on our site for download by around August 20, maybe sooner. Part C and D around a week or so later. B includes a segment on slow motion mirror work, how to practice effectively and how to make swing changes. Part B also covers the first four (of nine total) elements of Educated Hands, starting with grip position and pressure, and Basic Setup.
I am a strong advocate for learning how to setup like a tour pro. Part B also includes a long section on some very important mechanical basics like Steady Head, Upper and Lower Swing Centers, Release, and a long section on Aim and Alignment.

Part C is a long one on our Swing Map drills, which are powerful drills to re-program the subconscious mind Swing Map with a much more effective understanding of the Big Parts of a good golf swing.

Part D is advanced Setup, including a long segment on our three Postural Braces which I have written about before on this forum. And how to use your eyes/vision in the golf swing, ie how the eye gaze affects balance, and can be used to "flinch-proof" your swing or stroke. And the last segment of Part C is more drills relating to swing mechanics.

Module 3 taping is about 75% done, and covers advanced Arm Mechanics and advanced Educated Hands. By "advanced" I dont mean for expert players, rather it means that when I teach the golf swing, I follow the principle of keeping the information as non-technical and as simple as possible in the early stages, and as the student starts to understand the Big Picture concepts, then moving forward we can begin to get down to the more technical details. Should be ready for download by early September.

[Jim Waldron]

Just watched the PGA practice round, with a segment about Loius O putting while looking at the hole. He got the idea from Spieth, apparently, and is now putting lights out. Michael Breed was commenting about "recent research the last 5-6 months" proving that - especially for amateurs - putting while looking at the hole greatly improves distance control. Nice to see that the concept is finally gaining some more widespread notice and approval.

I find it very rewarding since I have been teaching my students to look at the hole since 1999 in my Putting Game full day "boot camps". I played around with the idea in my own putting game in 1997 and 1998 and it worked so well, that I showed it to a few students. Of course, at first, everyone thinks you are either insane or joking, but so far about 95% of my students putt significantly better while looking at the hole, especially on long putts outside 30 feet, or 3 putt range. It worked so well that I began calling it the "3 putt cure".

For any golfer with a tendency to yip or flinch, or "hit" their putts, or flip their wrists, or who decel, or steer, ie block their putts - it is almost like a miracle cure.

One of my best friends is the best putter I have ever seen, better than most tour pros, who looks at the hole. He started doing it on my recommendation in 1998 and has never looked back. And he makes it from every range.

[4pillars]

Alpenfels and Christina wrote a book, “Instinct Putting,” that shows the successful results of a test they had with people looking at the hole when putting.

There has been a 2011 study by Sasho Mackenzie and collegeues Visually focusing on the far versus the near target during the putting
stroke which also used a TOMI system to analyse the stroke and suggested that looking at the hole results in a smoother stroke (ie better distance control).

However compared to the group that trained with looking at the ball the improvements in putting accuracy at 1.22 m and 4 m were about the same.

I seriously doubt Michael Breed that there has been [color=#282828]"recent research the last 5-6 months" on this subject as it is not on the databases, and most research is stuck on Joan Vickers quiet eye.[/color]

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='4pillars' timestamp='1439364318' post='12121898']
Alpenfels and Christina wrote a book, “Instinct Putting,” that shows the successful results of a test they had with people looking at the hole when putting.

There has been a 2011 study by Sasho Mackenzie and collegeues Visually focusing on the far versus the near target during the putting
stroke which also used a TOMI system to analyse the stroke and suggested that looking at the hole results in a smoother stroke (ie better distance control).

However compared to the group that trained with looking at the ball the improvements in putting accuracy at 1.22 m and 4 m were about the same.

I seriously doubt Michael Breed that there has been [color=#282828]"recent research the last 5-6 months" on this subject as it is not on the databases, and most research is stuck on Joan Vickers quiet eye.[/color]
[/quote]

My guess is that Breed knows someone who is doing the research, and has not been published as yet. The greatest gains in distance control from looking at the hole are on long putts outside 35 feet or so. In my experience in our Putting Schools, there is minimal improvement in putts made from within 8 feet, especially shorter than 8 feet. I dont look at the hole in that range but will do so on all putts outside 8 feet or so. We have had several hundred graduates go through our Putting Schools, and in the first few months after graduation, I am in touch with all of them, and the feedback on looking at the hole is very positive. Most have stayed with it.

[4pillars]

Interesting as I thought Spieth only used it on short putts.