The Arm Swing Illusion / Jim Waldron's Swing Philosophy

[Jim Waldron]

Return to hip flexion ..... should it feel like you bend from the hips in a NNE direction from the top of the swing or in the direction of the belt buckle ?

 

Always tough to answer "how should it feel" questions, since feel is such an individual thing. Just know that you start to go back into flexion immediately at start of Stage Two of Transition or even a bit earlier (Stage One is core/abs shift left as the s girdle still has 10-15 degrees of coil to complete to the Top).

 

But yes, NNE is a good place to start to feel that move. It happens while hips are shifting laterally and of course while rotating so it is not a "fixed" direction.

 

Got it , stage1 starts with left knee moving away from right knee and core firing at almost the same time? Then stage 2 is forward flexion from the hips and tilt switch whilst rotating all sections ?

 

I'm impressed with module 4 really helped clarify a few things and made me under stand my swing and also other players swings better . Does the swing map module have anything geared towards the stage 2 moves I described ?

 

No, stage one is just the core firing left at same time as s girdle finishes coiling to Top. Invisible on video. Looks like last portion of the backswing.

 

Stage 2 is lateral hip shift and left knee bump with lower body, and hip rotation. Along with Tilt Switch with upper body, and hip flexion restoration, and beginning of torso rotation.

 

No on swing map which is module one part D. Module Six breaks the swing down into incredible detail according to the six swing segments. Module Six should be up by early to mid February.

 

Thanks for your positive feedback on Module Four: The Mechanics of the Pivot.

 

It is probably the most important Module in terms of understanding with 100% clarity what should and should not happen with your swing mechanics, and why the Pivot is so vitally important to really great ballstriking.

 

Anyone who suffers from poor impact, loss of distance and poor accuracy will certainly benefit from that video.

 

In my 25 year teaching career, I see many, many very poor Pivots that really hurt golfers chances of playing good golf.

[starsail85]

Return to hip flexion ..... should it feel like you bend from the hips in a NNE direction from the top of the swing or in the direction of the belt buckle ?

 

Always tough to answer "how should it feel" questions, since feel is such an individual thing. Just know that you start to go back into flexion immediately at start of Stage Two of Transition or even a bit earlier (Stage One is core/abs shift left as the s girdle still has 10-15 degrees of coil to complete to the Top).

 

But yes, NNE is a good place to start to feel that move. It happens while hips are shifting laterally and of course while rotating so it is not a "fixed" direction.

 

Got it , stage1 starts with left knee moving away from right knee and core firing at almost the same time? Then stage 2 is forward flexion from the hips and tilt switch whilst rotating all sections ?

 

I'm impressed with module 4 really helped clarify a few things and made me under stand my swing and also other players swings better . Does the swing map module have anything geared towards the stage 2 moves I described ?

 

No, stage one is just the core firing left at same time as s girdle finishes coiling to Top. Invisible on video. Looks like last portion of the backswing.

 

Stage 2 is lateral hip shift and left knee bump with lower body, and hip rotation. Along with Tilt Switch with upper body, and hip flexion restoration, and beginning of torso rotation.

 

No on swing map which is module one part D. Module Six breaks the swing down into incredible detail according to the six swing segments. Module Six should be up by early to mid February.

 

Thanks for your positive feedback on Module Four: The Mechanics of the Pivot.

 

It is probably the most important Module in terms of understanding with 100% clarity what should and should not happen with your swing mechanics, and why the Pivot is so vitally important to really great ballstriking.

 

Anyone who suffers from poor impact, loss of distance and poor accuracy will certainly benefit from that video.

 

In my 25 year teaching career, I see many, many very poor Pivots that really hurt golfers chances of playing good golf.

 

I'm pretty amazed that the concept of tilt switch does not gain more traction when you consider the fanscination on the topic of shallowing the club, which seems to be recommended to be done with uncomfortable arm manipulation .

 

Something like external rotation of the upper right arm in downswing transition , would you say this is independent arm movement or a result of the shoulder sockets creating movement ?

[Jim Waldron]

Return to hip flexion ..... should it feel like you bend from the hips in a NNE direction from the top of the swing or in the direction of the belt buckle ?

 

Always tough to answer "how should it feel" questions, since feel is such an individual thing. Just know that you start to go back into flexion immediately at start of Stage Two of Transition or even a bit earlier (Stage One is core/abs shift left as the s girdle still has 10-15 degrees of coil to complete to the Top).

 

But yes, NNE is a good place to start to feel that move. It happens while hips are shifting laterally and of course while rotating so it is not a "fixed" direction.

 

Got it , stage1 starts with left knee moving away from right knee and core firing at almost the same time? Then stage 2 is forward flexion from the hips and tilt switch whilst rotating all sections ?

 

I'm impressed with module 4 really helped clarify a few things and made me under stand my swing and also other players swings better . Does the swing map module have anything geared towards the stage 2 moves I described ?

 

No, stage one is just the core firing left at same time as s girdle finishes coiling to Top. Invisible on video. Looks like last portion of the backswing.

 

Stage 2 is lateral hip shift and left knee bump with lower body, and hip rotation. Along with Tilt Switch with upper body, and hip flexion restoration, and beginning of torso rotation.

 

No on swing map which is module one part D. Module Six breaks the swing down into incredible detail according to the six swing segments. Module Six should be up by early to mid February.

 

Thanks for your positive feedback on Module Four: The Mechanics of the Pivot.

 

It is probably the most important Module in terms of understanding with 100% clarity what should and should not happen with your swing mechanics, and why the Pivot is so vitally important to really great ballstriking.

 

Anyone who suffers from poor impact, loss of distance and poor accuracy will certainly benefit from that video.

 

In my 25 year teaching career, I see many, many very poor Pivots that really hurt golfers chances of playing good golf.

 

I'm pretty amazed that the concept of tilt switch does not gain more traction when you consider the fanscination on the topic of shallowing the club, which seems to be recommended to be done with uncomfortable arm manipulation .

 

Something like external rotation of the upper right arm in downswing transition , would you say this is independent arm movement or a result of the shoulder sockets creating movement ?

 

Tilt Switch is a concept that very, very few golfers have ever heard of, let alone deeply understand. The Tilt Illusion, for about 50% of my students, is even harder to see through than the arm swing illusion.

 

Tilt Switch is part of - along with lateral hip shift motion on Transition - what I call "natural shaft flattening", which for average golfers starting from a good Top position, is all the shaft flattening one needs.

 

There are a few kinds of advanced shaft flattening - external right upper arm being one of them.

 

It is indeed a form of arm manipulation, which is why I only teach that move to very advanced players.

 

Tilt Switch, Tilt Illusion and rightward tilt on the forward swing is covered in depth in our Module Four video on the Pivot Mechanics.

[starsail85]

Very interested to learn why the head shouldn't move when performing tilt switch. If the tilt occurs in the thoracic section then shouldn't everything above it move correspondingly? Or does the neck tilt the opposite way turning the switch to maintain position?

[Jim Waldron]

Very interested to learn why the head shouldn't move when performing tilt switch. If the tilt occurs in the thoracic section then shouldn't everything above it move correspondingly? Or does the neck tilt the opposite way turning the switch to maintain position?

 

Head steady is essential, and doable if your neck muscles are not too tight, while switching tilts. The oblique abs and QL muscles create the switch. Some neck tilt the opposite direction can happen as you suggested.

[starsail85]

Thoughts on tilt switch after a week of experimenting with the move

 

1.it is a radical departure for somebody who tended to pull the arms back to the body . Very wierd feeling moving through transition with no "grabbing" or "snatching" . Feels powerless but does seem to allow acceleration from about p5.5 onwards. Previously it felt as though everything was a top speed well before impact this feels the opposite . Doing nothing with the arms is a totally different feeling

 

2. Angle of attack and path much improved . I tend to creep alittle steep (-4 to -7) and path creeps more and more left on bad swings . With this it is definitely a shallower strike with a rightward path

 

3. Good shots doing this are higher in a good way . Driver low point moved back and now hitting more on up (not used to this!)

 

4. Had a spell yesterday hitting some terrible shots massive pushes and hooks . I had clearly started to over do the move . I was trying to go through the full range of tilt to the point where I tried to get my right arm on my ribs with TS in transition . After reviewing module 4 I realised that the transition TS is a more subtle move . Also through looking at video I could see I was drifting away from the ASI takeaway (a bending right arm and under plane shaft by p2 are a dead giveaway for this )

 

5. Good range session last night combining the subtle TS with the correct backswing started to produce great shots again . Really feels good not to be using the arm muscles in transition . Feels effortless but also not jerky . I get the feeling there is the opportunity now to hit it harder from mid downswing instead of from transition

 

 

 

Jim , another question if you don't mind . With the return to hip flexion, what is the duration of the move ? By what point in downswing does the full amount return? Is it all in transition? (I'm guessing that would cause a big dip and also wouldn't match the TS to cancel things out ) or is it something that occurs through the whole downswing until the shoulders are parallel to the target line(guessing this is p6) by which point you should have the same forward bend as address, or is it when the hips get square to target line in downswing ?

[Jim Waldron]

S - flexion is restored about the time when hips are square again, or P5 or a bit later.

 

In my swing model, you want to actually increase by about one inch the total amount of flexion from what you had at Setup.

 

You have "space" for this and the fact of your rightward tilt all the way to followthrough because your lead arm to chest angle is not the same as Setup. Add right wrist hinge to that equation and you have even more "space".

 

That "space" is filled by lateral weight transfer with lower body, right tilt and body rotation.

[PureStrikes54]

Jim I hear a lot of instructors here talk about the arms not working "in" fast enough and getting disconnected and working in opposite directions than the pivot along with players not having enough depth in their swing or what depth they get it's all achieved very late in the backswing. How do you validate the ASI vs these thoughts and intents which seem to be very opposite of the 45 degree push away. In my experience arms working in early seems to feel very crowded/stuck and the 45 degree push away in sink with pivot seems to feel extremely powerful and like the club stays in front of me and create more speed but does feel like it could have the potential for a larger miss pattern.

[Jim Waldron]

It's always a matter of finding the "middle ground" in achieving a better golf swing.

 

Most ams suck their arms inside and around the chest due to the ASI.

 

A tiny minority does the opposite flaw, ie arms pushing out too much and too much vertical dimension to the Top.

 

If you do the takeaway EXACTLY as I recommend, then you avoid both of those two extremes. And you will achieve both clubhead speed for distance and a neutral or mostly neutral path for better accuracy. (face angle control for accuracy is a separate issue from arm and pivot mechanics).

 

Meaning the shaft tracks back on plane and your arms and pivot are working in sync.

 

Part of the reason for the debate that you mention is that a lot of golfers - including a lot of teachers - do not understand the difference between dependent vs independent arm motion.

 

You want depth in the backswing by pivoting fully, ie full coil of the shoulder girdle and core, with a max of 45-60 degrees of hip turn.

 

That pivot motion will move the arms into the depth dimension fully and properly. Since the upper arms are connected to the shoulder girdle, when the s girdle coils deep, the arms are being moved by the pivot.

 

But independent arm motion should also be happening - simultaneous with the Pivot. And that is the slight pushaway of 4-8 inches that I teach, on the 45 degree angle to the chest with the lead arm during takeaway. And in second half of backswing, the right elbow folding vertically will raise the lead arm to it's proper position at the Top.

 

Most tour pros in the modern era are doing the takeaway exactly - or very close to - the way I teach it.

 

One way you can think about it is this way: hands go "in" from the Pivot (dependent arm motion) but that going in is "cancelled out" by the arm pushaway (independent arm motion) and both moves happen simultaneously so that the net effect is an on plane shaft angle and hands that stay "neutral" or just a little bit to the inside during takeaway.

 

I cover this topic in incredible detail in my video on the Arm Swing Illusion, Module Two.

 

Hope that answers your question!

[PureStrikes54]

It's always a matter of finding the "middle ground" in achieving a better golf swing.

 

Most ams suck their arms inside and around the chest due to the ASI.

 

A tiny minority does the opposite flaw, ie arms pushing out too much and too much vertical dimension to the Top.

 

If you do the takeaway EXACTLY as I recommend, then you avoid both of those two extremes. And you will achieve both clubhead speed for distance and a neutral or mostly neutral path for better accuracy. (face angle control for accuracy is a separate issue from arm and pivot mechanics).

 

Meaning the shaft tracks back on plane and your arms and pivot are working in sync.

 

Part of the reason for the debate that you mention is that a lot of golfers - including a lot of teachers - do not understand the difference between dependent vs independent arm motion.

 

You want depth in the backswing by pivoting fully, ie full coil of the shoulder girdle and core, with a max of 45-60 degrees of hip turn.

 

That pivot motion will move the arms into the depth dimension fully and properly. Since the upper arms are connected to the shoulder girdle, when the s girdle coils deep, the arms are being moved by the pivot.

 

But independent arm motion should also be happening - simultaneous with the Pivot. And that is the slight pushaway of 4-8 inches that I teach, on the 45 degree angle to the chest with the lead arm during takeaway. And in second half of backswing, the right elbow folding vertically will raise the lead arm to it's proper position at the Top.

 

Most tour pros in the modern era are doing the takeaway exactly - or very close to - the way I teach it.

 

One way you can think about it is this way: hands go "in" from the Pivot (dependent arm motion) but that going in is "cancelled out" by the arm pushaway (independent arm motion) and both moves happen simultaneously so that the net effect is an on plane shaft angle and hands that stay "neutral" or just a little bit to the inside during takeaway.

 

I cover this topic in incredible detail in my video on the Arm Swing Illusion, Module Two.

 

Hope that answers your question!

 

Thanks. You're the man. Always providing tons of useful commentary and free thorough advice. Will check out your stuff. I think Tiger perfected the ASI during his 2000 run when he played his best golf. There is a video of him hitting balls I believe in Asia and you can really see the push away in some of the rehearsals.

[Jim Waldron]

Thanks!

 

Yes - Tiger knew about and used the arm pushaway. He did an instruction article for Golf Digest on the takeaway back then where he said "some experts describe the proper takeaway as a 'pushing away' of the arms from the body".

[ofortuna]

Hi Jim,

 

I'm on my 3rd viewing already of the Module 5 video and I have a question. Could you elaborate on the fully released position of the wrists right after impact? How do you ensure that you get a full release of the angles instead of a roll of the forearms before fully releasing the angles? Also, it seems that the later you release, the more difficult it is to get a full release. Is it true that a full release of the right arm and wrist c0ck is key in achieving full potential swing speed.

 

Are there any drills or checkpoints specific to getting a full release with ulnar deviation? It seems that it's possible to have tension in your wrist not allowing them to release fully and still be able to complete a full roll forearm release. I think this is my tendency.

[Jim Waldron]

Hi Jim,

 

I'm on my 3rd viewing already of the Module 5 video and I have a question. Could you elaborate on the fully released position of the wrists right after impact? How do you ensure that you get a full release of the angles instead of a roll of the forearms before fully releasing the angles? Also, it seems that the later you release, the more difficult it is to get a full release. Is it true that a full release of the right arm and wrist c0ck is key in achieving full potential swing speed.

 

Are there any drills or checkpoints specific to getting a full release with ulnar deviation? It seems that it's possible to have tension in your wrist not allowing them to release fully and still be able to complete a full roll forearm release. I think this is my tendency.

 

Yes - it starts with proper grip and grip pressure, no point in working on wrist release if those two things are not already in place.

 

Release is something that happens - especially in the case of a Passive Release as I recommend for average golfers.

 

Meaning, you get the wrist unc0cking properly and the slight forearm roll to happen as a result of a proper "stage one" of Pivot Thrust. If your Pivot Thrust is the right speed - not too slow or too fast - AND at the right time, not too early or too late, then the wrist and forearm roll is a non-issue, ie it will happen mechanically correctly and at the right time.

 

Yes, it is possible to "hold on" and block your wrist release and still actively roll the forearms. Again - my model is NO active Release of wrists or forearms for average golfers. Just learn - with focused Feel Awareness - to monitor your grip pressure and feel the forces from your Pivot cause the wrist un-c0cking and forearm roll to happen. No way it won't happen unless you are tensing those muscles, ie steering impulse. Which at its root cause is mainly mental. Too much ball-boundedness and worry about hitting it crooked.

 

Emotionally, you have to be willing to hit a horrible golf shot in order to Release properly. Folks who steer, are trying to prevent "failure" from happening.

 

Video will show you if you cannot now feel it. Right elbow should have 15-25 degrees of bend at impact, and left wrist should be level or close to back to where you started at Setup or more likely a bit more arched up toward the sky, than where you started.

[ofortuna]

Hi Jim,

 

I'm on my 3rd viewing already of the Module 5 video and I have a question. Could you elaborate on the fully released position of the wrists right after impact? How do you ensure that you get a full release of the angles instead of a roll of the forearms before fully releasing the angles? Also, it seems that the later you release, the more difficult it is to get a full release. Is it true that a full release of the right arm and wrist c0ck is key in achieving full potential swing speed.

 

Are there any drills or checkpoints specific to getting a full release with ulnar deviation? It seems that it's possible to have tension in your wrist not allowing them to release fully and still be able to complete a full roll forearm release. I think this is my tendency.

 

Yes - it starts with proper grip and grip pressure, no point in working on wrist release if those two things are not already in place.

 

Release is something that happens - especially in the case of a Passive Release as I recommend for average golfers.

 

Meaning, you get the wrist unc0cking properly and the slight forearm roll to happen as a result of a proper "stage one" of Pivot Thrust. If your Pivot Thrust is the right speed - not too slow or too fast - AND at the right time, not too early or too late, then the wrist and forearm roll is a non-issue, ie it will happen mechanically correctly and at the right time.

 

Yes, it is possible to "hold on" and block your wrist release and still actively roll the forearms. Again - my model is NO active Release of wrists or forearms for average golfers. Just learn - with focused Feel Awareness - to monitor your grip pressure and feel the forces from your Pivot cause the wrist un-c0cking and forearm roll to happen. No way it won't happen unless you are tensing those muscles, ie steering impulse. Which at its root cause is mainly mental. Too much ball-boundedness and worry about hitting it crooked.

 

Emotionally, you have to be willing to hit a horrible golf shot in order to Release properly. Folks who steer, are trying to prevent "failure" from happening.

 

Video will show you if you cannot now feel it. Right elbow should have 15-25 degrees of bend at impact, and left wrist should be level or close to back to where you started at Setup or more likely a bit more arched up toward the sky, than where you started.

 

So when you do the drill of alternating between full roll and reverse roll, you do it not by actively controlling forearm release but by the timing of the pivot thrust?

[Jim Waldron]

Hi Jim,

 

I'm on my 3rd viewing already of the Module 5 video and I have a question. Could you elaborate on the fully released position of the wrists right after impact? How do you ensure that you get a full release of the angles instead of a roll of the forearms before fully releasing the angles? Also, it seems that the later you release, the more difficult it is to get a full release. Is it true that a full release of the right arm and wrist c0ck is key in achieving full potential swing speed.

 

Are there any drills or checkpoints specific to getting a full release with ulnar deviation? It seems that it's possible to have tension in your wrist not allowing them to release fully and still be able to complete a full roll forearm release. I think this is my tendency.

 

Yes - it starts with proper grip and grip pressure, no point in working on wrist release if those two things are not already in place.

 

Release is something that happens - especially in the case of a Passive Release as I recommend for average golfers.

 

Meaning, you get the wrist unc0cking properly and the slight forearm roll to happen as a result of a proper "stage one" of Pivot Thrust. If your Pivot Thrust is the right speed - not too slow or too fast - AND at the right time, not too early or too late, then the wrist and forearm roll is a non-issue, ie it will happen mechanically correctly and at the right time.

 

Yes, it is possible to "hold on" and block your wrist release and still actively roll the forearms. Again - my model is NO active Release of wrists or forearms for average golfers. Just learn - with focused Feel Awareness - to monitor your grip pressure and feel the forces from your Pivot cause the wrist un-c0cking and forearm roll to happen. No way it won't happen unless you are tensing those muscles, ie steering impulse. Which at its root cause is mainly mental. Too much ball-boundedness and worry about hitting it crooked.

 

Emotionally, you have to be willing to hit a horrible golf shot in order to Release properly. Folks who steer, are trying to prevent "failure" from happening.

 

Video will show you if you cannot now feel it. Right elbow should have 15-25 degrees of bend at impact, and left wrist should be level or close to back to where you started at Setup or more likely a bit more arched up toward the sky, than where you started.

 

So when you do the drill of alternating between full roll and reverse roll, you do it not by actively controlling forearm release but by the timing of the pivot thrust?

 

Important to distinguish between the swing model or Ideal and a drill that is often an exagerrated intention or brain boundary learning exercise. Full roll is one side of the spectrum and reverse roll is the opposite. Done as a way to start to feel how those two ends relate to each other. The middle is the Ideal or a half roll for your normal Release. You do the exagerration parts intentionally, using the forearm muscles.

 

Release timing in a normal swing is done mainly by P Thrust if using the Passive Release.

 

Yes- you want a full release to achieve maximum clubhead speed. Ideally it would be right after impact. ie on a non ball swing, both arms straight and wrists arched up a bit would be max ch speed.

 

Yes - if you are late on the Release, you are not likely to get the c face angle squared up - that would require an Active Release type to assist in squaring the face angle.

 

Sounds like you were thinking the active forearm roll was the main element in Release and something you "do" - forearm roll is somewhat secondary to wrist release in importance and even that roll is slight in degree even with active release. The roll will happen automatically if grip and grip pressure is correct. Very common to hold on and block that roll. I see it all the time in lessons.

[4pillars]

Jim

 

Just been studying your short video on the kinetic chain.

 

Actually think this would be a great starting point for people new to your work.

 

Very interested in you re-enforcement of your concept of superconnection on the downswing -- which I know other coaches on the forum do not share.

[ofortuna]

Hi Jim,

 

I'm on my 3rd viewing already of the Module 5 video and I have a question. Could you elaborate on the fully released position of the wrists right after impact? How do you ensure that you get a full release of the angles instead of a roll of the forearms before fully releasing the angles? Also, it seems that the later you release, the more difficult it is to get a full release. Is it true that a full release of the right arm and wrist c0ck is key in achieving full potential swing speed.

 

Are there any drills or checkpoints specific to getting a full release with ulnar deviation? It seems that it's possible to have tension in your wrist not allowing them to release fully and still be able to complete a full roll forearm release. I think this is my tendency.

 

Yes - it starts with proper grip and grip pressure, no point in working on wrist release if those two things are not already in place.

 

Release is something that happens - especially in the case of a Passive Release as I recommend for average golfers.

 

Meaning, you get the wrist unc0cking properly and the slight forearm roll to happen as a result of a proper "stage one" of Pivot Thrust. If your Pivot Thrust is the right speed - not too slow or too fast - AND at the right time, not too early or too late, then the wrist and forearm roll is a non-issue, ie it will happen mechanically correctly and at the right time.

 

Yes, it is possible to "hold on" and block your wrist release and still actively roll the forearms. Again - my model is NO active Release of wrists or forearms for average golfers. Just learn - with focused Feel Awareness - to monitor your grip pressure and feel the forces from your Pivot cause the wrist un-c0cking and forearm roll to happen. No way it won't happen unless you are tensing those muscles, ie steering impulse. Which at its root cause is mainly mental. Too much ball-boundedness and worry about hitting it crooked.

 

Emotionally, you have to be willing to hit a horrible golf shot in order to Release properly. Folks who steer, are trying to prevent "failure" from happening.

 

Video will show you if you cannot now feel it. Right elbow should have 15-25 degrees of bend at impact, and left wrist should be level or close to back to where you started at Setup or more likely a bit more arched up toward the sky, than where you started.

 

So when you do the drill of alternating between full roll and reverse roll, you do it not by actively controlling forearm release but by the timing of the pivot thrust?

 

Important to distinguish between the swing model or Ideal and a drill that is often an exagerrated intention or brain boundary learning exercise. Full roll is one side of the spectrum and reverse roll is the opposite. Done as a way to start to feel how those two ends relate to each other. The middle is the Ideal or a half roll for your normal Release. You do the exagerration parts intentionally, using the forearm muscles.

 

Release timing in a normal swing is done mainly by P Thrust if using the Passive Release.

 

Yes- you want a full release to achieve maximum clubhead speed. Ideally it would be right after impact. ie on a non ball swing, both arms straight and wrists arched up a bit would be max ch speed.

 

Yes - if you are late on the Release, you are not likely to get the c face angle squared up - that would require an Active Release type to assist in squaring the face angle.

 

Sounds like you were thinking the active forearm roll was the main element in Release and something you "do" - forearm roll is somewhat secondary to wrist release in importance and even that roll is slight in degree even with active release. The roll will happen automatically if grip and grip pressure is correct. Very common to hold on and block that roll. I see it all the time in lessons.

 

Thanks for that clarification Jim!

[starsail85]

Jim

 

Just been studying your short video on the kinetic chain.

 

Actually think this would be a great starting point for people new to your work.

 

Very interested in you re-enforcement of your concept of superconnection on the downswing -- which I know other coaches on the forum do not share.

 

Worth purchasing? I liked the price of this one but wasn't sure if there was any info I would t be aware of included ...

[4pillars]

Jim

 

Just been studying your short video on the kinetic chain.

 

Actually think this would be a great starting point for people new to your work.

 

Very interested in you re-enforcement of your concept of superconnection on the downswing -- which I know other coaches on the forum do not share.

 

Worth purchasing? I liked the price of this one but wasn't sure if there was any info I would t be aware of included ...

 

I think it pulls things together.

[Jim Waldron]

My take on the two Module Five videos on the Levers and Release Part A which is 4 hours long and the short one (52 minutes) on the Kinetic Chain is this: Part A will be far more beneficial for most golfers. Way more content and a lot of important stuff on how the wrist mechanics work, including the almost universal flaw of Early Release, the whole Lag body of knowledge, the Release types of Active v Passive or the Hybrid Release (right in the middle between active and passive), the turbo booster of Hand Switch which explains a lot of myths about power application and CH speed, and a lot on the Wrist Illusion material.

 

We almost did not include the K Chain video but decided to go ahead with it since so many golfers are being exposed to some info on that topic that can be toxic to their ballstriking, in my view.

 

There is a lot of misunderstanding of how the arms move on Transition and Release that I wanted to address. The whole "passive arms" vs "active arms" debate needs to be re-framed, in my opinion, in light of the arm swing illusion and how it affects one's view of connection during Release. "Passive arms" does NOT mean "slow-moving arms" - far from it! You want the arms moving at lighting fast speed during Release.

The last 30 minutes or so of Module Five Part A covers arm motion during Transition and I demonstrate how with ZERO independent arm motion one can arrive in a good P6 position. It is THE most powerful part of the ASI, along with SuperConnection of arms to s girdle during Release to just after Impact.

 

SuperConnection concept is covered in depth in Module Three on Advanced Arm Mechanics and of course in a more general way in Module Two on the ASI. In Module Five I wanted to show how the Key Move or Back Up Move aspect of the Pivot Thrust basically blends the SuperConnection of the upper arms to the shoulder girdle, so that both are moving at same RPM speed during Release, and causes the lower end of the arms to move very fast in the direction of the Target. Part of the Lever Illusion material.

 

Stuff that Hogan discovered back in the late 1930's and relayed to several of his tour pro students over the years.

 

One of the key aspects of this concept is that good golf requires both power and accuracy and that you can get both if the upper portion of your upper arms is connected to your shoulder girdle during Release. If it is flying off the s girdle from pivot momentum before impact, good luck trying to tame those dynamic forces so that you have an on plane shaft and a square clubface at impact.

[Milkers]

Jim I have a question re the independent arm motion. During the "pushaway" on the 45 degree angle relative to your chest, do you have any specifics on how much (lead?) forearm rotation should also be happening? Is it something to be consciously rehearsed or will the "right" amount of rotation naturally occur? Thanks as always for your thoughts.

[starsail85]

Jim I have a question re the independent arm motion. During the "pushaway" on the 45 degree angle relative to your chest, do you have any specifics on how much (lead?) forearm rotation should also be happening? Is it something to be consciously rehearsed or will the "right" amount of rotation naturally occur? Thanks as always for your thoughts.

 

Interested in Jims response

 

My understanding is that the folding of the right arm takes care of the forarm rotation

[Jim Waldron]

Jim I have a question re the independent arm motion. During the "pushaway" on the 45 degree angle relative to your chest, do you have any specifics on how much (lead?) forearm rotation should also be happening? Is it something to be consciously rehearsed or will the "right" amount of rotation naturally occur? Thanks as always for your thoughts.

 

I teach zero forearm rotation during takeaway since it alters the face angle relative to the clubhead path too much. So toe of the club stays "up" as you do the takeaway, or if you do err, better to err on the side of slightly closed.

 

Second half of backswing there is a slight amount of both upper and lower arm rotation clockwise as you reach the Top. Which as starsail mentions, happens as a result of folding of the right arm, kind of a "cranking" motion to the right lower arm, along with abduction of the lower arm, ie lower arm moves away from upper right arm in the lateral direction a tiny bit. Gets you into the famous "waiters tray position" at the Top.

[Jim Waldron]

I have had some questions lately about the difference in my two concepts "Swing Map" vs "Swing Concept". I think it is vitally important to know what those two things are all about and how they relate to each other.

 

"Swing Map" refers to all of the subconscious mind "programs" or dominant habits, and beliefs about power, impact, swing shape or geometry. This Map creates your entire body motion when swinging at normal speed.

 

"Swing Concept" is your conscious intellectual mind's ideas and mental/visual images about those same topics of power, impact and swing shape, along with basic ideas of what you believe to be ideal mechanics.

 

"Swing Concept" actually only transfers over to creating body movement patterns with reliability and consistently when you are moving at slow speeds.

 

The goal is to have your - hopefully correct - Swing Concept beliefs eventually transform into the Swing Map, so that you can execute those correct movement patterns without any effort or thought.

 

The second goal is to have your Map and your Concept to become congruent. When there is conflict between the two, there is a strong tendency to flinch which creates bad golf shots.

[starsail85]

I have had some questions lately about the difference in my two concepts "Swing Map" vs "Swing Concept". I think it is vitally important to know what those two things are all about and how they relate to each other.

 

"Swing Map" refers to all of the subconscious mind "programs" or dominant habits, and beliefs about power, impact, swing shape or geometry. This Map creates your entire body motion when swinging at normal speed.

 

"Swing Concept" is your conscious intellectual mind's ideas and mental/visual images about those same topics of power, impact and swing shape, along with basic ideas of what you believe to be ideal mechanics.

 

"Swing Concept" actually only transfers over to creating body movement patterns with reliability and consistently when you are moving at slow speeds.

 

The goal is to have your - hopefully correct - Swing Concept beliefs eventually transform into the Swing Map, so that you can execute those correct movement patterns without any effort or thought.

 

The second goal is to have your Map and your Concept to become congruent. When there is conflict between the two, there is a strong tendency to flinch which creates bad golf shots.

 

Jim , I have what I would call a fully formed swing concept and understand what I want my golf swing to be . I have 100% confidence that my golf swing concept is correct and have no doubt over it. I can perform it perfectly at slow motion and even up to 50/60 percent speeds with awareness directed to the areas of my swing that are not dominant habits i.e. I focus on the feel of my arms extending to the top and in transition (the stretch arm pressure), whilst my awareness in transition has to focus on the feel of sitting into the right leg whilst moving the left hip backwards .

 

At full speeds I don't have time to focus on these two feels

 

My full speed swing does not perform the movements as I would like , and my full swing without any conscious thought or awareness brings out the same golf swing I've always had pretty much . E.g. Hundreds of hours of practice but no new dominant habits installed

 

Does this suggest that I am at odds with my swing map? How can i form these new dominant habits. Is it just a case of more and more reps with acute awarenesss?

[Jim Waldron]

I have had some questions lately about the difference in my two concepts "Swing Map" vs "Swing Concept". I think it is vitally important to know what those two things are all about and how they relate to each other.

 

"Swing Map" refers to all of the subconscious mind "programs" or dominant habits, and beliefs about power, impact, swing shape or geometry. This Map creates your entire body motion when swinging at normal speed.

 

"Swing Concept" is your conscious intellectual mind's ideas and mental/visual images about those same topics of power, impact and swing shape, along with basic ideas of what you believe to be ideal mechanics.

 

"Swing Concept" actually only transfers over to creating body movement patterns with reliability and consistently when you are moving at slow speeds.

 

The goal is to have your - hopefully correct - Swing Concept beliefs eventually transform into the Swing Map, so that you can execute those correct movement patterns without any effort or thought.

 

The second goal is to have your Map and your Concept to become congruent. When there is conflict between the two, there is a strong tendency to flinch which creates bad golf shots.

 

Jim , I have what I would call a fully formed swing concept and understand what I want my golf swing to be . I have 100% confidence that my golf swing concept is correct and have no doubt over it. I can perform it perfectly at slow motion and even up to 50/60 percent speeds with awareness directed to the areas of my swing that are not dominant habits i.e. I focus on the feel of my arms extending to the top and in transition (the stretch arm pressure), whilst my awareness in transition has to focus on the feel of sitting into the right leg whilst moving the left hip backwards .

 

At full speeds I don't have time to focus on these two feels

 

My full speed swing does not perform the movements as I would like , and my full swing without any conscious thought or awareness brings out the same golf swing I've always had pretty much . E.g. Hundreds of hours of practice but no new dominant habits installed

 

Does this suggest that I am at odds with my swing map? How can i form these new dominant habits. Is it just a case of more and more reps with acute awarenesss?

 

Really great question! But first are you seeing on slow mo video replay the flaws happening at full speed or are you really just guessing?

 

The answer is this, and what I describe here is very common. If your Swing Map holds a mental swing picture that is contrary to your Swing Concept mental swing picture, you are going to have issues. No matter how many reps you do at slow mo, it wont transfer over to full swing speeds. The founder of American psychology, the great William James famously said "In a conflict between the Will (conscious mind) and the Imagination (subconscious mind) the Imagination always wins."

 

Which is why the essential first step in a swing change is that Deep Insight as to it's correctness,ie the light bulb moment literally means the change is happening at the Swing Map level. Mere intellectual insight is not enough.

 

The example I always use is the common story of a high handicapper intellectually knowing about hitting down with shaft lean, and can do it perfectly at slower speeds, but at normal speed they revert right back to scooping. It proves that there Swing Map still believes that "hitting up" is the only way to get the ball airborne.

 

The other issue is Balance and Timing. If your swing mechanics are causing loss of Balance or poor Release timing, then you are going to hit bad shots, even if your Swing Map has a perfect understanding.

 

The final issue is fitness - sometimes golfers lack the core strength or flexibility to pull off the move at normal swing speeds.

[starsail85]

I have had some questions lately about the difference in my two concepts "Swing Map" vs "Swing Concept". I think it is vitally important to know what those two things are all about and how they relate to each other.

 

"Swing Map" refers to all of the subconscious mind "programs" or dominant habits, and beliefs about power, impact, swing shape or geometry. This Map creates your entire body motion when swinging at normal speed.

 

"Swing Concept" is your conscious intellectual mind's ideas and mental/visual images about those same topics of power, impact and swing shape, along with basic ideas of what you believe to be ideal mechanics.

 

"Swing Concept" actually only transfers over to creating body movement patterns with reliability and consistently when you are moving at slow speeds.

 

The goal is to have your - hopefully correct - Swing Concept beliefs eventually transform into the Swing Map, so that you can execute those correct movement patterns without any effort or thought.

 

The second goal is to have your Map and your Concept to become congruent. When there is conflict between the two, there is a strong tendency to flinch which creates bad golf shots.

 

Jim , I have what I would call a fully formed swing concept and understand what I want my golf swing to be . I have 100% confidence that my golf swing concept is correct and have no doubt over it. I can perform it perfectly at slow motion and even up to 50/60 percent speeds with awareness directed to the areas of my swing that are not dominant habits i.e. I focus on the feel of my arms extending to the top and in transition (the stretch arm pressure), whilst my awareness in transition has to focus on the feel of sitting into the right leg whilst moving the left hip backwards .

 

At full speeds I don't have time to focus on these two feels

 

My full speed swing does not perform the movements as I would like , and my full swing without any conscious thought or awareness brings out the same golf swing I've always had pretty much . E.g. Hundreds of hours of practice but no new dominant habits installed

 

Does this suggest that I am at odds with my swing map? How can i form these new dominant habits. Is it just a case of more and more reps with acute awarenesss?

 

Really great question! But first are you seeing on slow mo video replay the flaws happening at full speed or are you really just guessing?

 

The answer is this, and what I describe here is very common. If your Swing Map holds a mental swing picture that is contrary to your Swing Concept mental swing picture, you are going to have issues. No matter how many reps you do at slow mo, it wont transfer over to full swing speeds. The founder of American psychology, the great William James famously said "In a conflict between the Will (conscious mind) and the Imagination (subconscious mind) the Imagination always wins."

 

Which is why the essential first step in a swing change is that Deep Insight as to it's correctness,ie the light bulb moment literally means the change is happening at the Swing Map level. Mere intellectual insight is not enough.

 

The example I always use is the common story of a high handicapper intellectually knowing about hitting down with shaft lean, and can do it perfectly at slower speeds, but at normal speed they revert right back to scooping. It proves that there Swing Map still believes that "hitting up" is the only way to get the ball airborne.

 

The other issue is Balance and Timing. If your swing mechanics are causing loss of Balance or poor Release timing, then you are going to hit bad shots, even if your Swing Map has a perfect understanding.

 

The final issue is fitness - sometimes golfers lack the core strength or flexibility to pull off the move at normal swing speeds.

 

Thanks for the reply Jim

 

I've always used video on every practice shot on the range so I'm getting correct feedback . Its definitely like I have a breaking point . My goal and I don't know if you will agree is to keep working at the speed that my movement breaks down at (about 70 percent for example) and try to take it up to 71% and so on until I can perform at full speed . If I stop performing the move correctly, I go back to a much slower speed and try and work it back up again had some good success and love the way my pivot looks now at up to about 65% speed , which is around my breaking point at the moment . I am comparing it to learning a new piece of music on the guitar , do the pattern correctly in rhythm and gradually increase the tempo until you can do it at the desired speed etc

 

The big problem I have is I literally have no idea what my SM thinks about anything let alone if it agrees with my conscious swing concept . All I can say is consciously I have a complete understanding of the mechanics I neee to produce to achieve the motion I am after . Not really basing much on the quality of my shots , I could hit nice shots with a lousy pivot motion , my objective is just to change my movement pattern .

 

I believe for me that it must be my SM understanding of power application must be flawed . My right foot knee and hip will not wait for the left hip to shift and clear . It's as if I have a deep rooted concept that I have to rush transition with an aggressive firing of the right side . A couple of weeks ago I hit some shots where I basically tried to apply no power until about p6, just focused on getting my hips working correctly alittle tilt switch and hit the ball with what essentially felt like a powerless swing, but what the ball did supprised me , a really strong powerful flight with a 3 wood that flew about 215 (normal 3 wood carry for me around 235) with what felt like was literally 20 %power...I thought it would go more like 150 . I thought "wow" at the time , but didn't stick with it, does that sound like I was on the verge of a deep insight moment there? As in my SM doesn't understand that I can be patient in transition and still get the required power application just at a later point in the swing?

[Jim Waldron]

S - yes to your last question. And could also be the balance/stability issue I mentioned. Your brain cares much more about your staying in balance and not falling down and hurting yourself, and it could be that this "righting instinct" is kicking in at your 71% speed to protect your from injury due to loss of balance. Your brain has priorities and balance trumps mechanics every time.....

 

I used to have your exact same swing flaw, too much up on my right toe by p6.5 or so and my right hip would thrust out. For me the fix had more to do with core strength and training to keep my right glute muscles firing properly from Transition all the way almost to Finish. You should also check in feel channel to see if your inward belly core pressure is firing all the way to finish.

[starsail85]

S - yes to your last question. And could also be the balance/stability issue I mentioned. Your brain cares much more about your staying in balance and not falling down and hurting yourself, and it could be that this "righting instinct" is kicking in at your 71% speed to protect your from injury due to loss of balance. Your brain has priorities and balance trumps mechanics every time.....

 

I used to have your exact same swing flaw, too much up on my right toe by p6.5 or so and my right hip would thrust out. For me the fix had more to do with core strength and training to keep my right glute muscles firing properly from Transition all the way almost to Finish. You should also check in feel channel to see if your inward belly core pressure is firing all the way to finish.

 

A Few thoughts based on this Jim

 

If the hips turn too much in the backswing , the tailbone base moves towards the ball , especially if you work on the theory of retaining right leg flex i.e. The right hip will not work back the same amount that the left hip works out and the tailbone will work out (and down) for every degree that the left knee flexes . Would this force the body to right itself in downswing as backswing hip turn is causing the loss of balance ?

 

When you talk of the right glute, does this gonhand in hand with what you refer to with the pelvic tuck and maintaining this for the whole motion? I am guessing that the squat into the right leg in transition also loads the right glute even more so? Seems like this squat is a key move, but tough to perform if off balance at the top of swing?

 

Inward core pressure? Could you dumb this down for me? I am sort of familiar with core activation from a core training point of view , basically drawing in your abdominal cylinder in belly button pelvic floor kidney area etc . In your swing model are you wanting this activated from the start and maintained for the whole duration, or are you referring more to the leftward firing of the core section in downswing ?

[ofortuna]

Hi Jim, thanks for all your responses.

 

Based on module 5's discussion of the unc0ck and re-c0cking through the impact area, it's really a lot easier to see what's going on when you have the swingyde on. I think I need one of these to get some useful feedback on what is occuring. My left wrist wants to cup quite a bit into the follow through. Keeping the left wrist flat so that the swingyde would land back on my left forearm again (as I would imagine it happening since I don't have the training gizmo yet), feels very odd. It feels like I'm c0cking vertically with my right palm facing the target or right palm facing directly towards the ground when I am able to keep my left wrist flat.