The Arm Swing Illusion / Jim Waldron's Swing Philosophy

[Kiwi2]

Here is an extract from Jim's Great Shot 6 Laws of Club Motion video

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imVEZMNcUpE[/media]

[Silky]

I just purchased the Great Shot! Training Manual and I am in the midst of reading through it. It is quite extensive in coverage and details, a balanced coverage of all the practical knowledge of golf swing. No pretentious to be scholarly, but the manual as far as I can judge is based on truths with practical application.

I stated that the Hogan's swing is similar to Iron Byron swing in this forum before and received a few ridicules. Having read the section on the Body Thrust or Hogan Release, I felt vindicated! Thank you Jim.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Silky' timestamp='1435152285' post='11825016']
I just purchased the Great Shot! Training Manual and I am in the midst of reading through it. It is quite extensive in coverage and details, a balanced coverage of all the practical knowledge of golf swing. No pretentious to be scholarly, but the manual as far as I can judge is based on truths with practical application.

I stated that the Hogan's swing is similar to Iron Byron swing in this forum before and received a few ridicules. Having read the section on the Body Thrust or Hogan Release, I felt vindicated! Thank you Jim.
[/quote]

Thanks! Yes - that matches the Hogan Swing Style I call Ultra Spin. Not everyone though - requires naturally fast Tempo, very strong Core and very flexible body, and helps to be short in stature with long arms.

The manual covers a ton of information - it is meant to be a lifelong resource on the essential skills of ballstriking, including the peak performance psychology or how to learn and how to practice golf skills effectively.

[ofortuna]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1435163122' post='11826150']
[quote name='Silky' timestamp='1435152285' post='11825016']
I just purchased the Great Shot! Training Manual and I am in the midst of reading through it. It is quite extensive in coverage and details, a balanced coverage of all the practical knowledge of golf swing. No pretentious to be scholarly, but the manual as far as I can judge is based on truths with practical application.

I stated that the Hogan's swing is similar to Iron Byron swing in this forum before and received a few ridicules. Having read the section on the Body Thrust or Hogan Release, I felt vindicated! Thank you Jim.
[/quote]

Thanks! Yes - that matches the Hogan Swing Style I call Ultra Spin. Not everyone though - requires naturally fast Tempo, very strong Core and very flexible body, and helps to be short in stature with long arms.

The manual covers a ton of information - it is meant to be a lifelong resource on the essential skills of ballstriking, including the peak performance psychology or how to learn and how to practice golf skills effectively.
[/quote]

I just purchased and viewed the Great Shot module one video. I wish it had more info regarding the transition and dropping to the lower plane. Does the manual cover that in more detail? Perhaps I should have gotten that instead.

I liked the sections using the plane board and the drill trying to hook the driver. I actually have a plane board made out of pvc pipe in my backyard that I started using again. It seems my arc after contact drifted too far left and the plane guide made me realize it.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='ofortuna' timestamp='1435185765' post='11828766']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1435163122' post='11826150']
[quote name='Silky' timestamp='1435152285' post='11825016']
I just purchased the Great Shot! Training Manual and I am in the midst of reading through it. It is quite extensive in coverage and details, a balanced coverage of all the practical knowledge of golf swing. No pretentious to be scholarly, but the manual as far as I can judge is based on truths with practical application.

I stated that the Hogan's swing is similar to Iron Byron swing in this forum before and received a few ridicules. Having read the section on the Body Thrust or Hogan Release, I felt vindicated! Thank you Jim.
[/quote]

Thanks! Yes - that matches the Hogan Swing Style I call Ultra Spin. Not everyone though - requires naturally fast Tempo, very strong Core and very flexible body, and helps to be short in stature with long arms.

The manual covers a ton of information - it is meant to be a lifelong resource on the essential skills of ballstriking, including the peak performance psychology or how to learn and how to practice golf skills effectively.
[/quote]

I just purchased and viewed the Great Shot module one video. I wish it had more info regarding the transition and dropping to the lower plane. Does the manual cover that in more detail? Perhaps I should have gotten that instead.

I liked the sections using the plane board and the drill trying to hook the driver. I actually have a plane board made out of pvc pipe in my backyard that I started using again. It seems my arc after contact drifted too far left and the plane guide made me realize it.
[/quote]

That first video is all about the Six Laws of Club Motion - specifically about that topic, and one in a series of videos that will cover 100% of the information in our award-winning Great Shot! ballstriking/golf swing fundamentals "boot camp" three day golf school. In no way does that one video - of one hour and 42 minutes viewing time - cover all of the golf swing fundamentals or all of the information in our program. This is why we are shooting 12 more videos over the next few months, it will take a total of 13 videos, in ten Modules (a Module covers one Big Picture subject matter of the golf swing) to cover the entire program, about 24 hours of viewing time.

Detailed technical information on Transtion move will be covered in Module Three on Arm and Pivot Mechanics, and in a later Module covering the detailed mechanics of the swing divided into six segments. Transition is segment three.

I don't believe in "tips" or "quick-fixes" - the usual content of probably 90% of instructional videos. This is high quality information about the Laws of Body Motion and, again - in Module One Part A - the Laws of Club Motion.

The e-book manual covers all of the information - but in text form, with some pictures and drawings. If you feel you learn well from the written word alone, and dont need the visual data that the video program provides for, then the manual is a good choice.

PVC pipe plane trainers should only be used for waist to waist high swings since they do not allow for the plane shift that must occur when your hands go above waist high.

[Hogan1975]

Jim : an incredible e book and a great conversation with you on the phone as well. In all honesty I can hit the ball better than 99% of online golfers. I'm somewhat of a natural when I trust in what I have. You gave me a lot of great pointers and ideas on how to just enjoy the game we all love. Thanks for your time, wish you the best with your teachings. Not a lot of great guys like you left in the teaching world

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Hogan1975' timestamp='1435243810' post='11832506']
Jim : an incredible e book and a great conversation with you on the phone as well. In all honesty I can hit the ball better than 99% of online golfers. I'm somewhat of a natural when I trust in what I have. You gave me a lot of great pointers and ideas on how to just enjoy the game we all love. Thanks for your time, wish you the best with your teachings. Not a lot of great guys like you left in the teaching world
[/quote]

Thanks, H! Much appreciated. I enjoyed our phone lesson as well. I think the main topic we discussed needs much more attention in the golfing world, especially given the recent tragic decline of the once awesome Tiger Woods. The pursuit of swing perfection can be a double-edged sword,ie if you are not very careful, you can end up getting worse, not better, when using conventional teaching concepts. By that I mean NOT understanding the very limited role that conscious mind thinking plays. "Contamination" is the term I coined for this issue. It means using the cognitive or thinking mind to try to do a task - swinging a golf club effectively - that only the non-cognitive part of the brain can indeed do effectively when swinging at normal swing speeds.

NIce feedback from you on my ebook. I am getting a ton of positive feedback from folks who have bought it and studied it. The one common response has been the sheer amount of information in the book. It does cover "all the bases" and is meant to be a resource you can use for the rest of your life as a guide to better ballstriking.

[flopshot99]

Jim takes a ton of time to answer thread was urstions or if u call him..he is a tremendous asset to golfwrx...I have purchased the first module and am impressed

[tjames]

Are there any summaries of this thread or videos relating to this arm swing illusion. I read the first and last page but could spend hours reading them all.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='tjames' timestamp='1435284556' post='11836490']
Are there any summaries of this thread or videos relating to this arm swing illusion. I read the first and last page but could spend hours reading them all.
[/quote]

Yes - Module Two: The Arm Swing Illusion will be released as a download video from our website www.balancepointgolf.com very soon, likely around July 3-7.

But - the thread is worth the time it takes, especially the first 25-30 pages. If you only read the first and last pages, you will have no idea whatsoever what the Illusion is or how to deconstruct it from your subconscious mind swing map.

[tjames]

Without going back and reading 25 pages. Does this video reflect your idea?

http://youtu.be/_JES-8I-VAk

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='tjames' timestamp='1435294248' post='11837200']
Without going back and reading 25 pages. Does this video reflect your idea?

[media=]http://youtu.be/_JES-8I-VAk[/media]
[/quote]

No.

[tjames]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1435297918' post='11837310']
[quote name='tjames' timestamp='1435294248' post='11837200']
Without going back and reading 25 pages. Does this video reflect your idea?

[media=]http://youtu.be/_JES-8I-VAk[media]
[/quote]

No.
[/quote]

Alright. I went back and read the first 15 pages. Ill be honest, im not sure how people understood what the drill is you were talking about. I definitely could never implement these swing thoughts from the text given. Extend your arms in a 45* angle in a V shape. Lol I could probably do a bunch of awful things from that description.

Are there really no videos or e-book on this subject? Or proper picture diagrams of what this thread is trying to convey.

[ofortuna]

Mr Waldron, I purchased your e-book also and have been going through it the last few days. Wow there's a ton of info there! One of the things that really applied to my swing is the sections talking about the lower body thrust and immediate firming up of the lower body using the scissor action. This was something really missing from my action. I've always dissipated my power weakly through the ball with a loose uncoil or spinning move. It feels like a powerful hit like in a karate punch when the lower body firms up. I've always been subconsciously afraid of "hitting" but as long as it's a hit of my body and not my wrists, I see that it's not only okay but necessary.

[flopshot99]

Jim charges 1250 for a 3 day golf schoolm.pretty affordable. He is doing all the vids in segments do u can get the golf school experience online..I'd suggest buying a couple of mo dg ule for a better grasp

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='ofortuna' timestamp='1435367303' post='11842240']
Mr Waldron, I purchased your e-book also and have been going through it the last few days. Wow there's a ton of info there! One of the things that really applied to my swing is the sections talking about the lower body thrust and immediate firming up of the lower body using the scissor action. This was something really missing from my action. I've always dissipated my power weakly through the ball with a loose uncoil or spinning move. It feels like a powerful hit like in a karate punch when the lower body firms up. I've always been subconsciously afraid of "hitting" but as long as it's a hit of my body and not my wrists, I see that it's not only okay but necessary.
[/quote]

Yeah - the Scissors action is a really essential piece of the golf swing three-dimensional jigsaw puzzle. The main purpose is to provide lower body stability for better balance. But - the firming up of left leg "wall" also contributes to wrist c0ck release timing. Very much like a karate move, as you suggested.

[starsail85]

I am interested in buying the manual , does this cover everything including the mental section?

Also I can't find it on the website

Thanks

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1435386084' post='11843392']
I am interested in buying the manual , does this cover everything including the mental section?

Also I can't find it on the website

Thanks
[/quote]

Depends what you mean by "everything". 80% of the manual is on the laws of body motion/swing mechanics and club motion, 20% on mental side of learning and practicing golf skills, making swing changes, etc.

There is a whole other body of knowledge on the mental game I call the art of shotmaking that is a separate manual from our mental game golf school called Rip It to the Target!

Look at the ProShop section of our website www.balancepointgolf.com, it has the manual as an e-book or hard copy, and the new videos as well.

[ofortuna]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1435373714' post='11842766']
[quote name='ofortuna' timestamp='1435367303' post='11842240']
Mr Waldron, I purchased your e-book also and have been going through it the last few days. Wow there's a ton of info there! One of the things that really applied to my swing is the sections talking about the lower body thrust and immediate firming up of the lower body using the scissor action. This was something really missing from my action. I've always dissipated my power weakly through the ball with a loose uncoil or spinning move. It feels like a powerful hit like in a karate punch when the lower body firms up. I've always been subconsciously afraid of "hitting" but as long as it's a hit of my body and not my wrists, I see that it's not only okay but necessary.
[/quote]

Yeah - the Scissors action is a really essential piece of the golf swing three-dimensional jigsaw puzzle. The main purpose is to provide lower body stability for better balance. But - the firming up of left leg "wall" also contributes to wrist c0ck release timing. Very much like a karate move, as you suggested.
[/quote]

I've been getting the feel of scissors and left wall role in doing your drill alternating between hooking and slicing the driver (also the 6 iron). I think I'm starting to establish a lot of "feels" that I've never had before. Also your advice about working on mechanics away from the range and then not having any swing thoughts other than target/trajectory while hitting balls really makes sense to me. I just finished hitting some buckets and for the first time I can remember, I don't have sore arm muscles as a result. If anything, my legs feel worked out. I'm thinking that's a good sign.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='ofortuna' timestamp='1435417185' post='11844498']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1435373714' post='11842766']
[quote name='ofortuna' timestamp='1435367303' post='11842240']
Mr Waldron, I purchased your e-book also and have been going through it the last few days. Wow there's a ton of info there! One of the things that really applied to my swing is the sections talking about the lower body thrust and immediate firming up of the lower body using the scissor action. This was something really missing from my action. I've always dissipated my power weakly through the ball with a loose uncoil or spinning move. It feels like a powerful hit like in a karate punch when the lower body firms up. I've always been subconsciously afraid of "hitting" but as long as it's a hit of my body and not my wrists, I see that it's not only okay but necessary.
[/quote]

Yeah - the Scissors action is a really essential piece of the golf swing three-dimensional jigsaw puzzle. The main purpose is to provide lower body stability for better balance. But - the firming up of left leg "wall" also contributes to wrist c0ck release timing. Very much like a karate move, as you suggested.
[/quote]

I've been getting the feel of scissors and left wall role in doing your drill alternating between hooking and slicing the driver (also the 6 iron). I think I'm starting to establish a lot of "feels" that I've never had before. Also your advice about working on mechanics away from the range and then not having any swing thoughts other than target/trajectory while hitting balls really makes sense to me. I just finished hitting some buckets and for the first time I can remember, I don't have sore arm muscles as a result. If anything, my legs feel worked out. I'm thinking that's a good sign.
[/quote]

It's not only target picture that can work as a focal point: balance, tempo, rhythm, grip pressure, any of the three postural braces, etc can work, there are many focal points other than target on our "approved" list. It is just that you dont want to use "swing thoughts" ie visualizing your swing positions or "talking to body parts". That is wrong use of the conscious mind.

You can use the left wall formation to curve the ball but the main use of that drill is for your mind to be in Feel Channel on your forearms to sense either a full or reverse roll.

[ofortuna]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1435418354' post='11844604']
[quote name='ofortuna' timestamp='1435417185' post='11844498']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1435373714' post='11842766']
[quote name='ofortuna' timestamp='1435367303' post='11842240']
Mr Waldron, I purchased your e-book also and have been going through it the last few days. Wow there's a ton of info there! One of the things that really applied to my swing is the sections talking about the lower body thrust and immediate firming up of the lower body using the scissor action. This was something really missing from my action. I've always dissipated my power weakly through the ball with a loose uncoil or spinning move. It feels like a powerful hit like in a karate punch when the lower body firms up. I've always been subconsciously afraid of "hitting" but as long as it's a hit of my body and not my wrists, I see that it's not only okay but necessary.
[/quote]

Yeah - the Scissors action is a really essential piece of the golf swing three-dimensional jigsaw puzzle. The main purpose is to provide lower body stability for better balance. But - the firming up of left leg "wall" also contributes to wrist c0ck release timing. Very much like a karate move, as you suggested.
[/quote]

I've been getting the feel of scissors and left wall role in doing your drill alternating between hooking and slicing the driver (also the 6 iron). I think I'm starting to establish a lot of "feels" that I've never had before. Also your advice about working on mechanics away from the range and then not having any swing thoughts other than target/trajectory while hitting balls really makes sense to me. I just finished hitting some buckets and for the first time I can remember, I don't have sore arm muscles as a result. If anything, my legs feel worked out. I'm thinking that's a good sign.
[/quote]

It's not only target picture that can work as a focal point: balance, tempo, rhythm, grip pressure, any of the three postural braces, etc can work, there are many focal points other than target on our "approved" list. It is just that you dont want to use "swing thoughts" ie visualizing your swing positions or "talking to body parts". That is wrong use of the conscious mind.

You can use the left wall formation to curve the ball but the main use of that drill is for your mind to be in Feel Channel on your forearms to sense either a full or reverse roll.
[/quote]

Thanks for those clarifications. Very helpful! I love the concept of the Feel Channel to allow your subconscious to learn. I'm looking forward to doing that drill again.

[Hogan1975]

@tjames. Jim has written and provided everyone an invaluable ebook. One of the best I have delved into actually. A teacher just isn't going to tell you the secret. Buy the book it is all there, costs less than a round of golf. Even though he has a different 4:30 line, it is still the best in my estimation

[tjames]

[quote name='Hogan1975' timestamp='1435455432' post='11847226']
@tjames. Jim has written and provided everyone an invaluable ebook. One of the best I have delved into actually. A teacher just isn't going to tell you the secret. Buy the book it is all there, costs less than a round of golf. Even though he has a different 4:30 line, it is still the best in my estimation
[/quote]

Thanks. I believe I asked in my first post if there was a summary of everything and no one mentioned there was an ebook.

[tjames]

[quote name='tjames' timestamp='1435457457' post='11847410']
[quote name='Hogan1975' timestamp='1435455432' post='11847226']
@tjames. Jim has written and provided everyone an invaluable ebook. One of the best I have delved into actually. A teacher just isn't going to tell you the secret. Buy the book it is all there, costs less than a round of golf. Even though he has a different 4:30 line, it is still the best in my estimation
[/quote]

Thanks. I believe I asked in my first post if there was a summary of everything and no one mentioned there was an ebook.
[/quote]

Hey Jim, I was wondering what your thoughts on the release are. I feel like the majority of my issues in the swing are on not releasing the club and holding it off leaving the club face open causing push slice shots.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='tjames' timestamp='1435549144' post='11853168']
[quote name='tjames' timestamp='1435457457' post='11847410']
[quote name='Hogan1975' timestamp='1435455432' post='11847226']
@tjames. Jim has written and provided everyone an invaluable ebook. One of the best I have delved into actually. A teacher just isn't going to tell you the secret. Buy the book it is all there, costs less than a round of golf. Even though he has a different 4:30 line, it is still the best in my estimation
[/quote]

Thanks. I believe I asked in my first post if there was a summary of everything and no one mentioned there was an ebook.
[/quote]

Hey Jim, I was wondering what your thoughts on the release are. I feel like the majority of my issues in the swing are on not releasing the club and holding it off leaving the club face open causing push slice shots.
[/quote]

Release is complex, could be its own thread. A simple view is that release problems fall into two categories: blocked releases and early releases. The ideal is to let the release of the wrist c0ck angles happen, at the proper speed, and with the trigger or start of the release happening at the right time. For most, that is when the handle end is about opposite middle of right thigh, although it can certainly work well a bit earlier or later than that. The key is to NOT start the trigger until hands pass below waist high AND to fully release the angles so that the left wrist is back to level or in truth just a bit "arched" above level, at impact.

Basically this means learning to "do nothing" to change the wrist angles - dont release them on purpose by "throwing" and don't "hold on". Although chronic "throwers" will need to practice in the short term a "hold on" feeling, which is really just not "throwing" and "blockers" will need to feel like they are "throwing" in the short term as practice, to actually be letting it release.

Grip and grip pressure have a huge influence, as does Pivot Thrust, which creates the rapid surge in momentum that causes the angles to open up.

[chigolfer1]

Hi,I have a pair of interrelated questions somewhat similar to the directly above. Because Jim seems to talk about this more than I've seen elsewhere, I thought it was appropriate for this thread. Also, before I begin, I just want to make clear this isn't about returning the shaft to the same plane as it was at setup. I fully understand that that isn't a necessary requirement. Nevertheless, there is a point where your shaft is obviously much too vertical at impact.

So, for some background, before I started taking some lessons I was one of the worst, steepest OTT swingers you've ever seen and would immediately lose all wrist angles after transition. My club would come from the outside and at impact my right forearm would be almost parallel to the ground with my wrists downc*cked at an almost 90 degree angle to reach the ball.

My questions are these. Now that I have a correct BS pivot and start down correctly I'm having a hard time understanding how to get my hands closer to my body near impact/when and how to straighten the right arm. Even in slow motion in a mirror this somewhat confuses me. When I tuck the right elbow in and get to when the forearm is parallel to the target line it makes sense. However, because I'm so used to having the right arm almost bent 90 degrees at impact, I'm not sure how to get from that position half way down to having the forearm pointing at (or near) the ball at impact instead of way out above the target line? Maybe I'm over thinking it but my (incorrect) swing DNA is so ingrained, nothing correct comes "naturally." My second question is regarding the downcoxking of the wrists. Because I used to do this so severely, I'm not sure if I need to consciously keep the upc*ck longer or if this should be a byproduct of other conditions being met? To give you an understanding of how this feels, I feel like my hands are incredibly far away from the ball (in the dimension from the target line to toe line along the ground) because I'm so used to practically having my hands above the ball at impact.

Hopefully this description and my questions can be deciphered as I realize its a bit confusing. One thought is that my shaft is still too steep and my body intuitively still reacts this way so that i don't miss the ball and if it was shallower I wouldn't have to consciously think of the above?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1435605906' post='11856582']
Hi,I have a pair of interrelated questions somewhat similar to the directly above. Because Jim seems to talk about this more than I've seen elsewhere, I thought it was appropriate for this thread. Also, before I begin, I just want to make clear this isn't about returning the shaft to the same plane as it was at setup. I fully understand that that isn't a necessary requirement. Nevertheless, there is a point where your shaft is obviously much too vertical at impact.

So, for some background, before I started taking some lessons I was one of the worst, steepest OTT swingers you've ever seen and would immediately lose all wrist angles after transition. My club would come from the outside and at impact my right forearm would be almost parallel to the ground with my wrists downc*cked at an almost 90 degree angle to reach the ball.

My questions are these. Now that I have a correct BS pivot and start down correctly I'm having a hard time understanding how to get my hands closer to my body near impact/when and how to straighten the right arm. Even in slow motion in a mirror this somewhat confuses me. When I tuck the right elbow in and get to when the forearm is parallel to the target line it makes sense. However, because I'm so used to having the right arm almost bent 90 degrees at impact, I'm not sure how to get from that position half way down to having the forearm pointing at (or near) the ball at impact instead of way out above the target line? Maybe I'm over thinking it but my (incorrect) swing DNA is so ingrained, nothing correct comes "naturally." My second question is regarding the downcoxking of the wrists. Because I used to do this so severely, I'm not sure if I need to consciously keep the upc*ck longer or if this should be a byproduct of other conditions being met? To give you an understanding of how this feels, I feel like my hands are incredibly far away from the ball (in the dimension from the target line to toe line along the ground) because I'm so used to practically having my hands above the ball at impact.

Hopefully this description and my questions can be deciphered as I realize its a bit confusing. One thought is that my shaft is still too steep and my body intuitively still reacts this way so that i don't miss the ball and if it was shallower I wouldn't have to consciously think of the above?
[/quote]

The best way I can help you with this issue is for you to take a webcam live lesson with me. As I have said before in this thread, I cannot give detailed individual specific advice outside of a lesson format. I am restricting my comments on forums to general swing theory only. And in your case, yes - I am not following your meaning from having read your post. It is quite confusing.

A 45 minute live lesson is only $65, an hour $88, so it is quite affordable, about half of what I charge for in person lesson.

And I think often times the issue is not only not knowing intellectually what you should be doing with your body and club motion. It is also that you have to find a way to coordinate that new body motion. It really all boils down to how does your subconscious brain send new information to your muscles, to fire and move a bone or joint. And that answer is always individual in nature, and usually takes professional feedback, and often more than one drill or mental focal point to achieve that new body motion.

[tjames]

Is it normal to come in a bit steep with this swing thought? Was working on it tonight and it seemed my divots were deeper than usual and I was coming in fairly steep.

[Jim Waldron]

It's normal if you are doing it wrong.

Its not a "swing thought". ASI concept is about understanding the swing in three spatial dimensions. A swing reality, ie how tour pros and all good ballstrikers (with very few exceptions) move their body and club. The method of instruction I advocate for does not use or require ANY conscious mind direction of the body during the swing. It is all about your subconscious understanding the concepts, in this case the ASI. It either does or it does not. If i does, then odds are you will start to see some fairly dramatic and fast improvements in your ballstriking. If you only understand it at the intellectual conscious mind level, while that is an essential baby first step, you still have a long way to go. It is a profound concept that is not quickly or easily understood when first presented with it - the total opposite of a quick-fix, band-aid or overly simplistic swing "tip" that has come to define conventional instruction.

If you only do the arm V shape motion in front of your chest, and dont Pivot properly - yes, you can be quite steep.

Its all about synching up the arm motion and pivot motion.

But I say again, to you and anyone else who is truly interested in understanding and applying the ASI concept - you really need to read and study those first 25-30 pages at a minimum, and preferably the entire thread. It takes an investment in time, energy and attention - but it is worth it. Or - just purchase the ASI video which will be available shortly. That video lays out the total concept in real depth, and explores all of it's ramifications on all of the other swing parts, especially how the upper arms, wrists and right arm angle work in a good swing.

[fmzip]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1435636275' post='11860120']
Or - just purchase the ASI video which will be available shortly. That video lays out the total concept in real depth, and explores all of it's ramifications on all of the other swing parts, especially how the upper arms, wrists and right arm angle work in a good swing.
[/quote]

I am so looking forward to this video Jim. Do you think it will be up before the holiday weekend?