Bradley Hughes, Impact, the truth about your swing.

[Hoganstriker]

Abs is not setup to do cp. eight already explained it.

[bph7]

I was wondering why there seems to be so much antagonism between the two sides of this debate but the O'grady stuff makes me think that "anti-ABS" crew are probably MORAD guys. In which case, I suppose it makes more sense. Both "sides" are led by leaders who have broken away from TGM. In any event, hope it keeps up, some very interesting stuff getting posted from both sides. Still don't think it has to be so antagonistic; I mean both Mac and JE are great players who know their stuff.

[nfbandon]

Tembolo:

Miller has made a similar observation:

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTd8UAG1cn8&list=PLSbUGHjgqA6JXkwBlIH5DcqYbG9fz5HAn[/media]

Of course, you can find plenty of Hogan stills where he doesn't do that..but he was a shotmaker.

In ABS we talk about a hook entry and a fade exit...which is similar.
[attachment=1965052:JE near impact.jpg]

[flatnstuck]

[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1385484237' post='8210542']
Abs is not setup to do cp. eight already explained it.
[/quote]


Lololololo. Wait. Wait. Lololol. Ok. It must be settled science then.

[Hoganstriker]

Why would you have it so in and then drop straight down to cp? Impossible.

[ej002]

By definition it's not cp

[tembolo1284]

What's the ideal ballflight you guys are looking for with these movements?

[virtuoso]

From what I gather, the ABS guys are trying to flatten the functional swing plane (FSP:Kwon). No one is going to bend the swing plane between P6 and P8. But it is no cupcake to get it down there by P6 and have it pointing straight. Why they want to do that, I have no idea.

Maybe it's because they say it creates more clubface control? Because it "looks" more closed before impact and "looks" more open after impact? Hmmm.

[bhughesgolf]

[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1385489033' post='8210998']
No one is going to bend the swing plane between P6 and P8.

[/quote]

No bend of plane...

[bhughesgolf]

[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1385489033' post='8210998']

Maybe it's because they say it creates more clubface control? Because it "looks" more closed before impact and "looks" more open after impact? Hmmm.
[/quote]

Is not closed into and not open after... square in direct correlation to the chi (body center & body power source)

[bhughesgolf]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1385487027' post='8210842']
By definition it's not cp
[/quote]

By whose definition ?? lol ... such statements again show a mis comprehension of the dynamics we instill into the students work

[bhughesgolf]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1385477810' post='8209948']

Thats the thing - there are legitimate questions, that are dodged. Llike why tighten the swing arc? (If that is what you are saying). IMO that sounds like a bad idea. All we get is "the ball likes it." Well maybe it does, but why?

BTW I like the dynamics of Grady's swing.
[/quote]

You cant call it 'dodging' just because you dont get the answer you are looking for here. There are literally thousands of responses to questions on ABS and on SITD
Again 'tightening the swing arc"???? ... Who said that?.... that is a misconception again ... not even close to our goal or what should happen
And it gets amusing when people say 'great action Grady' and then in the next breath say the ABS intentions or training is wrong...

[tembolo1284]

Brad what's the ideal ball flight with the ABS model swing?

[ej002]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1385496398' post='8211636']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1385487027' post='8210842']
By definition it's not cp
[/quote]

By whose definition ?? lol ... such statements again show a mis comprehension of the dynamics we instill into the students work
[/quote]

By the inventor of the term as it applies to golf instruction, Mac

[tembolo1284]

Isn't it always by Mac's definition?

[bhughesgolf]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1385497302' post='8211718']
Brad what's the ideal ball flight with the ABS model swing?
[/quote]

Whatever the shot calls for- but generally a compressed more piercing trajectory because true loft is put onto the ball at strike by a shallow entry ... 430 path or elbow plane...from a steep(ish) angle of attack ... wristcock and range of motion...

[flatnstuck]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1385497302' post='8211718']
Brad what's the ideal ball flight with the ABS model swing?
[/quote]

Piercing with little movement, and most curvature achieved with post impact intentions rather than changing grip or ball position outside of extreme needs.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1385498903' post='8211894']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1385497302' post='8211718']
Brad what's the ideal ball flight with the ABS model swing?
[/quote]

Whatever the shot calls for- but generally a compressed more piercing trajectory because true loft is put onto the ball at strike by a shallow entry ... 430 path or elbow plane...from a steep(ish) angle of attack ... wristcock and range of motion...
[/quote]

So translation is that ball is getting porked! Who can argue with that?

[spider]

[quote name='MadForeIt' timestamp='1385422436' post='8206788']
Student working on Super slotting intentions

[media=]http://youtu.be/BshZlKY7JvI[/media]

Erickson gave this vid a bug thumbs up
[/quote]

Not sure what is going on in this thread but I can do that without trying. I almost spit out my lunch. In fact all I try to do is NOT that. I'll go read first 6 pages I skipped.

[bhughesgolf]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1385499238' post='8211940']
So translation is that ball is getting porked! Who can argue with that?
[/quote]

Absolutely!!!
I am sure someone will argue with it lol

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1385499238' post='8211940']
[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1385498903' post='8211894']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1385497302' post='8211718']
Brad what's the ideal ball flight with the ABS model swing?
[/quote]

Whatever the shot calls for- but generally a compressed more piercing trajectory because true loft is put onto the ball at strike by a shallow entry ... 430 path or elbow plane...from a steep(ish) angle of attack ... wristcock and range of motion...
[/quote]

So translation is that ball is getting porked! Who can argue with that?
[/quote]

Question I have is....if you are so shallow on the elbow plane....how is it from a steep(ish) angle of attack?

Is that the tumbling thing again I don't really understand?

[virtuoso]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1385495533' post='8211572']
[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1385489033' post='8210998']
No one is going to bend the swing plane between P6 and P8.

[/quote]

No bend of plane...
[/quote]

yes, I understand that you are not trying to instruct people to bend the plane. Others that were being critical of ABS were saying you were trying to come too far from the inside, and too shallow and trying to get people to "bend" the plane to the left.....which I don't think you are trying to do.

It was my contention that you are trying to have people swing on a "straight" or neutral delivery plane, but one that is significantly lower than is traditionally taught. I don't have a problem with that other than I think it's a difficult manuever to get there.

As far as clubface control, my point is that I'm not convinced that the "appearance" of a low closure rate necessarily ensures better clubface control. I can personally make a swing that makes the clubface look like it's not rotating a lot through impact and hit it completely sideways.

[tembolo1284]

Think I know what you mean now by the ball likes it.

[ej002]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1385497132' post='8211706']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1385477810' post='8209948']

Thats the thing - there are legitimate questions, that are dodged. Llike why tighten the swing arc? (If that is what you are saying). IMO that sounds like a bad idea. All we get is "the ball likes it." Well maybe it does, but why?

BTW I like the dynamics of Grady's swing.
[/quote]

You cant call it 'dodging' just because you dont get the answer you are looking for here. There are literally thousands of responses to questions on ABS and on SITD
Again 'tightening the swing arc"???? ... Who said that?.... that is a misconception again ... not even close to our goal or what should happen
And it gets amusing when people say 'great action Grady' and then in the next breath say the ABS intentions or training is wrong...
[/quote]

Sorry but fluff answers is dodging in my book.

What's wrong with saying I like brads swing but it's very different than JE and asking why? What's wrong with good dynamics Grady, but asking why he is so underplane and trying to yank it back? The answer we get is "Bc the ball likes it." That clarifies the whole method for us. Gee Thanks.

We put up some module drills asked some questions, made some comparisons, but got no discussion other than "you guys don't get it" or some vague generalities. Some of which have been questioned.

What are the benefits of super slotting "to control pressures" - Ok what does that mean? Why is that good?

Hook entry slice exit - what's that mean? What's the point?

We asked why steepen at the bottom after bein very shallow at P5 - A: helps compression. Really? How is that? That sounds like a myth to me.

Pivot thrust - we get that one. Thx

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1385499840' post='8211996']
[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1385495533' post='8211572']
[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1385489033' post='8210998']
No one is going to bend the swing plane between P6 and P8.

[/quote]

No bend of plane...
[/quote]

yes, I understand that you are not trying to instruct people to bend the plane. Others that were being critical of ABS were saying you were trying to come too far from the inside, and too shallow and trying to get people to "bend" the plane to the left.....which I don't think you are trying to do.

It was my contention that you are trying to have people swing on a "straight" or neutral delivery plane, but one that is significantly lower than is traditionally taught. I don't have a problem with that other than I think it's a difficult manuever to get there.

As far as clubface control, my point is that I'm not convinced that the "appearance" of a low closure rate necessarily ensures better clubface control. I can personally make a swing that makes the clubface look like it's not rotating a lot through impact and hit it completely sideways.
[/quote]


If it's not rotating a lot through impact why is the face so open or closed that you hit it sideways?

[virtuoso]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1385499975' post='8212010'] [quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1385499840' post='8211996'] [quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1385495533' post='8211572'] [quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1385489033' post='8210998'] No one is going to bend the swing plane between P6 and P8. [/quote] No bend of plane... [/quote] yes, I understand that you are not trying to instruct people to bend the plane. Others that were being critical of ABS were saying you were trying to come too far from the inside, and too shallow and trying to get people to "bend" the plane to the left.....which I don't think you are trying to do. It was my contention that you are trying to have people swing on a "straight" or neutral delivery plane, but one that is significantly lower than is traditionally taught. I don't have a problem with that other than I think it's a difficult manuever to get there. As far as clubface control, my point is that I'm not convinced that the "appearance" of a low closure rate necessarily ensures better clubface control. I can personally make a swing that makes the clubface look like it's not rotating a lot through impact and hit it completely sideways. [/quote] If it's not rotating a lot through impact why is the face so open or closed that you hit it sideways? [/quote]

Because it only takes 3 degrees for the ball to be hideously off-line.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1385500103' post='8212022']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1385499975' post='8212010'] [quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1385499840' post='8211996'] [quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1385495533' post='8211572'] [quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1385489033' post='8210998'] No one is going to bend the swing plane between P6 and P8. [/quote] No bend of plane... [/quote] yes, I understand that you are not trying to instruct people to bend the plane. Others that were being critical of ABS were saying you were trying to come too far from the inside, and too shallow and trying to get people to "bend" the plane to the left.....which I don't think you are trying to do. It was my contention that you are trying to have people swing on a "straight" or neutral delivery plane, but one that is significantly lower than is traditionally taught. I don't have a problem with that other than I think it's a difficult manuever to get there. As far as clubface control, my point is that I'm not convinced that the "appearance" of a low closure rate necessarily ensures better clubface control. I can personally make a swing that makes the clubface look like it's not rotating a lot through impact and hit it completely sideways. [/quote] If it's not rotating a lot through impact why is the face so open or closed that you hit it sideways? [/quote]

Because it only takes 3 degrees for the ball to be hideously off-line.
[/quote]

Fix it!

[tembolo1284]

so I guess in my little avatar i'm a steep slut.

[tembolo1284]

And my face is way too closed.

[virtuoso]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1385500244' post='8212038']
[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1385500103' post='8212022']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1385499975' post='8212010'] [quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1385499840' post='8211996'] [quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1385495533' post='8211572'] [quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1385489033' post='8210998'] No one is going to bend the swing plane between P6 and P8. [/quote] No bend of plane... [/quote] yes, I understand that you are not trying to instruct people to bend the plane. Others that were being critical of ABS were saying you were trying to come too far from the inside, and too shallow and trying to get people to "bend" the plane to the left.....which I don't think you are trying to do. It was my contention that you are trying to have people swing on a "straight" or neutral delivery plane, but one that is significantly lower than is traditionally taught. I don't have a problem with that other than I think it's a difficult manuever to get there. As far as clubface control, my point is that I'm not convinced that the "appearance" of a low closure rate necessarily ensures better clubface control. I can personally make a swing that makes the clubface look like it's not rotating a lot through impact and hit it completely sideways. [/quote] If it's not rotating a lot through impact why is the face so open or closed that you hit it sideways? [/quote]

Because it only takes 3 degrees for the ball to be hideously off-line.
[/quote]

Fix it!
[/quote]

Tembolo, you've seen my swing. How should I fix my clubface control?