Bradley Hughes, Impact, the truth about your swing.

[flatnstuck]

I don't do daily devotionals to the little yellow book so I can't speak intelligently about morad's p system. Abs uses points where the shaft is parallel to the ground for it's system. In that frame of reference the 4:30 line would be attained between p2 and p3.

[Hoganstriker]

That photo...
Wow.

[eightiron]

[quote name='flatnstuck' timestamp='1385351817' post='8202590']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1385351318' post='8202550']
[quote name='flatnstuck' timestamp='1385349839' post='8202420']
Abs teaches no such position. They have a different P system than MORAD, but it's amazing how hard the concept of hip high to hip high is for some to grasp. One might almost draw the conclusion that some are being intentionally obtuse.
[/quote]

Are the greats you described doing this through impact ? What's happening before is obviously effecting the hip to hip you speak of
You can't see this?
[/quote]

I'm sorry.... You'll have to be more specific with what's wrong here. For reference he's ripping a long iron off a wet wooden deck in loafers. No mean feat.
[/quote]

[quote name='flatnstuck' timestamp='1385351817' post='8202590']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1385351318' post='8202550']
[quote name='flatnstuck' timestamp='1385349839' post='8202420']
Abs teaches no such position. They have a different P system than MORAD, but it's amazing how hard the concept of hip high to hip high is for some to grasp. One might almost draw the conclusion that some are being intentionally obtuse.
[/quote]

Are the greats you described doing this through impact ? What's happening before is obviously effecting the hip to hip you speak of
You can't see this?
[/quote]

I'm sorry.... You'll have to be more specific with what's wrong here. For reference he's ripping a long iron off a wet wooden deck in loafers. No mean feat.
[/quote]

I think I have been specific enough but if you want to get technical his right forearm is not on plane and he down on hands plane . Do you see that in the great ball strikers you listed. Also his body is very front on facing the ball rather than the hip line and waist being more open and the thoracic is very hunched

[dairic]

[quote name='flatnstuck' timestamp='1385352299' post='8202644']
I don't do daily devotionals to the little yellow book so I can't speak intelligently about morad's p system. Abs uses points where the shaft is parallel to the ground for it's system. In that frame of reference the 4:30 line would be attained between p2 and p3.
[/quote]

lol. P's can add confusion for sure especially if were dealing with different P definitions.

So somewhere between the top of the backswing and shaft parallel to ground in downswing? There's a lot of space between those two parallels so it's not very specific.

That could be close to Morad's P5 (left arm parallel to ground in downswing).

[veryscratch]

[quote name='nfbandon' timestamp='1385332185' post='8200912']
ABS seeks to have control of te face through the strike, just as Hogan, Knudson, Snead, Peter Senior, Doug Sanders, Lee Trevino did and Garcia does, among others. It is not a Hogan method, but Hogan is admired and studied. Now if you guys have Hogan nailed, please demonstrate. I would love to see it and learn from you. But dismissing ABS by calling it names or calling it O' Grady discarded trash is, at best, disrespectful, and at worst meanspirited and hateful.
[/quote]

Nfbandon,

You know nobody mimics Hogan, so you know there's nothing you'd love to see and learn from. Look at you, you've been trying to get hogan for how many decades now? So why demand someone's swing? And they not getting it now doesn't mean they won't get it after 10 years...lol

I notice when the valid comparisons are done suddenly it's not a Hogan nor old Mac trash model. Haven't you noticed?

You have a good swing though.

VS[quote name='flatnstuck' timestamp='1385349839' post='8202420']
Abs teaches no such position. They have a different P system than MORAD, but it's amazing how hard the concept of hip high to hip high is for some to grasp. One might almost draw the conclusion that some are being intentionally obtuse.
[/quote]

Flatnstuck,

It's not hard to grasp. In fact it's easy. It's hip high to hip high is shallow because it comes from a shallower and much inside plane before.

The greats comes from much higher/steeper and much less inside before coming to hip high to hip high.

It's like ABS shallows thru hip to hip by tilting/flattening the plane way very much. Or if not tilting it, pointing that plane to the right much, then at delivery points it back to the left to offset/compensate. That would not be consistent. (And btw, I don't see Brad doing in tournaments what he preaches. Maybe this is a good topic, and it's ok for me to be proven wrong on this.)

The greats didn't do that as evidenced by left arm much less in at left arm parallel.

VS

[veryscratch]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1385352519' post='8202660']
[quote name='flatnstuck' timestamp='1385351817' post='8202590']
I'm sorry.... You'll have to be more specific with what's wrong here. For reference he's ripping a long iron off a wet wooden deck in loafers. No mean feat.
[/quote]

I think I have been specific enough but if you want to get technical his right forearm is not on plane and he down on hands plane . Do you see that in the great ball strikers you listed. Also his body is very front on facing the ball rather than the hip line and waist being more open and the thoracic is very hunched
[/quote]

Flatnstuck,

Can't believe you even asked the question...

And to add to eight's points...ever wonder why this was done in a wooden sliding whippy floor? If this was done in grass or dirt, JE wouldn't have a follow-thru at all.

VS

[flatnstuck]

I see that everyone is stuck on p5. Why not past that? Start showing stills of the greats past that point and you'll find what they mean by the 4:30 line.

Eight, I can find a pic of Nick Pice at impact that looks very much like that. Does JE do that on every swing? I dunno. Is it a swing idiosyncrasy? Maybe. Is he the model? No. Is he doing a lot of other things that the greats are? Most definitely.

If you need to measure something down to a gnat's a** to enjoy the game then by all means. You'll find no such measuring in abs. Not that any of the critics have demonstrated enough knowledge of the method to make intelligent criticisms.

[Hoganstriker]

To be fair I think thats just a drill right?
But in all the examples shown whats happened before what folks call the slot looks important to me. Superslot looks like a single shaft bend pretty much one way-very simple and probably could play like that. They are taking it back shoving it in there with the hands drop and going.
Thats cool whats wrong with it? Very simple (if you can get into the uber contorted low tops of bs deal.)
It is not cp at all very much a free release dtl clubhead chasing the target. They don't slot it by the pivot they use the hands and arms with the drop.
It looks to me like a pattern they invented based on TGM.
Looks okay I guess.
It is not anything like the greats IMO but whose to say you can't play golf like that?

[flatnstuck]

Guys, I've had 4 replies disappear into the ether thanks to a particularly shoddy wifi connection. I'll try again tomorrow if work permits.

[flatnstuck]

Guys, I've had 4 replies disappear into the ether thanks to a particularly shoddy wifi connection. I'll try again tomorrow if work permits.

[Hoganstriker]

It looks decent. It's hardly worth discussing similarities to the greats though. The greats were not saving their pivots for work after the ball was gone IMO.
IMO the greats wanted to pivot to assist hitting the ball...HARD.

[tembolo1284]

agree with that hoganstriker.

[bhughesgolf]

Left arm/ hands are NOT meant to be in
Baseline does NOT shift to the right
Hogan is NOT the model but one of many fine golfers using the dynamics of motion we embrace for the students to see and compare
Any video you may troll off the internet of a 'drill is more than likely NOT being done correctly so you should never drag conclusions from it
The 'P' positions are different and are only comparisons of reference and NOT where every person needs to be

If you make blanket statements trashing something that you have not personally done in full then your xomprehension level will be low as many facets of how we teach are exxagerated because in real life things alter due to the pressures existing & pulling things elsewhere. Hence I emphatically pronounce yet again there is NO Hogan model and it is bizzare for people to insinuate 'nfbandon or john or whomever ISN'T doing what Hogan did.... Too right they arent because we all have different grip strengths and torso range and foot pressures and eye dominance. No two people are going to look alike BUT the dynamics and the pressures created bt learning to utilize the correct forces and oppositions of body and club movement WILL allow the ball to do what it is told to do...., and for all the Hogan hangers on you should remember he himself stated "The ultimate judge of a good golf swing is the flight of the ball"
Get over the look and the idiosynchrosies of comparison because the ball will tell you everything.

[bhughesgolf]

Hoganstriker along with many others miss the point of maintaing pressure on the strike by thinking impact.. Their minds become trapped at impact which results in pressures and resistance right throughout the body and club to be released early- this is why he insists ABS shifts the baseline right-... when in reality nothing could be farther from the truth....
If you want impact to matter... what is happening well much later post impact is the key to the gateway into and of the strike you are concerned with

[tembolo1284]

Thanks for the responses sir hughes...very interesting!

[ej002]

So the kid who made it to mid three and posts a compilation - he was doing 1 and 2 wrong? Why did he move in to the next level then. And the other guy doing. 3 was in video 6.... Regardless of is the details are wrong - we all see what they are doing.

[tembolo1284]

I'd love to get an explanation of what they are doing!

[eightiron]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1385385013' post='8203444']
So the kid who made it to mid three and posts a compilation - he was doing 1 and 2 wrong? Why did he move in to the next level then. And the other guy doing. 3 was in video 6.... Regardless of is the details are wrong - we all see what they are doing.
[/quote]

Makes no sense to me if most are doing it wrong . At what 250 bucks a module surely you would want to get it right

[flatnstuck]

Ahhh, yes. I see now that you don't want to talk about abs. You just wish to run it down.

Grind that axe to the nub sir. Go all the way if you're just out to show your backside.

[tembolo1284]

I hope we can learn more about ABS. I certainly respect Brad and what he's done. He's no dummy.

[ej002]

If from that position at p5 - how can the plan not be a that far right. Is the upper thoracic dive out like the mid three guy to bend the plane left? Like this Andrew Rocque guy?

[tembolo1284]

How do they bend the plane more to the left...because I agree with ej that you'll be pretty far out to the right if you are that deep at p5.

[eightiron]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1385387840' post='8203546']
If from that position at p5 - how can the plan not be a that far right. Is the upper thoracic dive out like the mid three guy to bend the plane left? Like this Andrew Rocque guy?
[/quote]

I believe the upper thoracic dive of the mod 3 guy is the post impact thrust move . To counter the 4.30 line path , I believe it's rotation of forearms and body

[Lefthook]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1385387466' post='8203526']
I hope we can learn more about ABS. I certainly respect Brad and what he's done. He's no dummy.
[/quote]

I agree.

[Hoganstriker]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1385361184' post='8203110']
Left arm/ hands are NOT meant to be in
Baseline does NOT shift to the right
Hogan is NOT the model but one of many fine golfers using the dynamics of motion we embrace for the students to see and compare
Any video you may troll off the internet of a 'drill is more than likely NOT being done correctly so you should never drag conclusions from it
The 'P' positions are different and are only comparisons of reference and NOT where every person needs to be

If you make blanket statements trashing something that you have not personally done in full then your xomprehension level will be low as many facets of how we teach are exxagerated because in real life things alter due to the pressures existing & pulling things elsewhere. Hence I emphatically pronounce yet again there is NO Hogan model and[b] it is bizzare for people to insinuate 'nfbandon or john or whomever ISN'T doing what Hogan did.... [/b]Too right they arent because we all have different grip strengths and torso range and foot pressures and eye dominance. No two people are going to look alike BUT the dynamics and the pressures created bt learning to utilize the correct forces and oppositions of body and club movement WILL allow the ball to do what it is told to do...., and for all the Hogan hangers on you should remember he himself stated "The ultimate judge of a good golf swing is the flight of the ball"
Get over the look and the idiosynchrosies of comparison because the ball will tell you everything.
[/quote]

Not when you look at the stills and vids.

[Hoganstriker]

What does left arm way in and hands dropping to the ground do if not shift of the baseline to the right?

[nfbandon]

No Brad is no dummy, and neither is John. And yes they charge money for the knowledge and skill they share with their students. Last I heard Mac charges a step fee for his stuff. Nothing wrong with that.

As far as the drills, folks will be advanced based on their ability and potential. Not everyone is going to be a scratch golfer. The drills condition and teach feels...they are exaggerations.

I do a lot of one arm swing work, something John agrees is great at developing golf specific strength and spacial awareness.

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFWOQEMiKNw"]https://www.youtube....h?v=VFWOQEMiKNw[/url]
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHlfQtq1zf4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=xHlfQtq1zf4[/url]

Others we study are Faldo, Price, Calvin Peete, Greg Norman. ABS is not a how to swing like Hogan course.

[tembolo1284]

Is brad actually in OZ now?

[veryscratch]

[quote name='nfbandon' timestamp='1385392593' post='8203830']
No Brad is no dummy, and neither is John. And yes they charge money for the knowledge and skill they share with their students. Last I heard Mac charges a step fee for his stuff. Nothing wrong with that.

As far as the drills, folks will be advanced based on their ability and potential. Not everyone is going to be a scratch golfer. The drills condition and teach feels...they are exaggerations.

I do a lot of one arm swing work, something John agrees is great at developing golf specific strength and spacial awareness.

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFWOQEMiKNw"]https://www.youtube....h?v=VFWOQEMiKNw[/url]
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHlfQtq1zf4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=xHlfQtq1zf4[/url]

Others we study are Faldo, Price, Calvin Peete, Greg Norman. ABS is not a how to swing like Hogan course.
[/quote]

Nfbandon,

What I'm wondering is why the swing questions got no real answers.

VS

[veryscratch]

[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1385391959' post='8203774']
What does left arm way in and hands dropping to the ground do if not shift of the baseline to the right?
[/quote]

I'd like the answer to this non-Hogan question too.

Because all this does is require to bend/shift baseline of plane to opposite direction at equal amount, which leads to clubhead path/arc too arched (too in to in). Why would Price, Faldo, Norman and Norman do that, who btw, with the exception prolly of Moe, all has bit upright-ish planes, not flat planes as nfbandon and JE have.

VS