Bradley Hughes, Impact, the truth about your swing.

[bph7]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1385221486' post='8195240']
Whatever - all true. Like I said its great that you have everything out there. [b]But I question the theory - look at what 8 put up.[/b]
[/quote]

Ok, cool, then maybe go onto another thread? (since this one has so many questionable theories, right?). I really don't know what the point of posts like yours is. Is the theory so offensive to you that you want discussion to cease? Do you want the guy to quit swinging like that? You have already made it clear multiple times that you don't agree with this stuff, and that's fine, but some of us might be interested. If you are trying to show the guy up, then, as others have said, post your action. Or point out how to fix these apparently flawed methods. Or ANYTHING that somewhat contributes to the discussion.

[veryscratch]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1385190735' post='8194436']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1385184625' post='8194272']
8 said it best. Gotta give a guy credit for putting a swing up on here and subjecting himself to truth.
[/quote]

Delivery start line compared to hogan and venturi
[/quote]

Eightiron,

Very good observation. Miles apart. Still great swings though. Just different strokes.

Hogan had left arm more out or less in, meaning more pivot and rotational powers, but was still able to get to impact without getting wipey or out to in. Most would.

How did the great man do it?

VS

[nfbandon]

As far as "getting that far from baseline" if you knew anything about ABS you would know that Superslotting is an elective module, not necessary. An ABS mandate is to have the shaft on the angle of the right forearm at delivery. Most of the great ball strikers are there. Taking the shaft more behind you in transition creates considerable pressure in your body and hands, which, if you have the guns, gives you more potential through the ball. Did some great ball strikers get there? There are pics where Hogan did, Player did, Frank Phillips, the great Australian player did...lots of the greats did. But again, not necessary, just desirable.

[eightiron]

[quote name='nepatriotsfan' timestamp='1385226923' post='8195638']
You guys that are commenting on Brady's and Johns swings need to post your action. I need to see how close to hogan you swing the club. Also, John doesn't teach a hogan swing model. You will find examples of all the great ball strikers over at ABS.
[/quote]

ok so hogan isn't the model , just great ball strikers . can you show some great ball strikers that cp release it from the left arm position being that far in .......... school us

[eightiron]

[quote name='nfbandon' timestamp='1385228767' post='8195756']
As far as "getting that far from baseline" if you knew anything about ABS you would know that Superslotting is an elective module, not necessary. An ABS mandate is to have the shaft on the angle of the right forearm at delivery. Most of the great ball strikers are there. Taking the shaft more behind you in transition creates considerable pressure in your body and hands, which, if you have the guns, gives you more potential through the ball. Did some great ball strikers get there? There are pics where Hogan did, Player did, Frank Phillips, the great Australian player did...lots of the greats did. But again, not necessary, just desirable.
[/quote]

great ! show us at p5 in the great ball strikers ( left arm parallel to ground ) dtl pics

[Hoganstriker]

[attachment=1960802:Grady.jpg]
[attachment=1960804:Grady2.jpg]
[attachment=1960806:Grady3.jpg]

[bph7]

Hoganstriker, interesting pics, the differences are clear. In any event, is there particular teacher/method that you think does get close to Hogan?

[Hoganstriker]

I don't know. The pictures are just meant to give a sense for the club motion. Hogan was really amazing with what he did. I don't think there's anybody out there that can come close.

[nfbandon]

Yes they are...ABS saves more rotation for post impact. Even though Hogan clears faster, he retains sufficient rotation post impact to avoid stall. Many guys trying to get Hogan have spent their pivot at impact. Rickey Fowler comes to mind. If you take it to what we all p4...post impact when the club is to the left hip...you will see good similarity to Hogan in an ABS swing. When I have more time I will post those pics. Great pic of Hogan above slotting it deep behind him...getting it flat and then getting steeper at impact. In the meantime here are BH's thoughts on Hogan.

http://youtu.be/5b1CF_cszNY
[attachment=1960870:image.jpg][attachment=1960872:image.jpg]

These two pics capture what I want to capture from Hogan. At 6'4" and lots of side bend that goes with it I will never have my arms packed as tight as he did or as level a rotation as he did. But you armchairs are welcome to post your Hogan swings and put them up to scrutiny! Lol

[bph7]

NFBandon, Don't get me wrong, your swing is awesome. And your are totally right, from hip high to hip high is where its at. I was just noting the differences.

[eightiron]

Look at your hip and neck tilts they are so out of whack up against hogan , that's because of the stuff alluded to before. See how you exit and just look , where's your face looking .. Didn't Dariusz try and tell you this on the dirt

[ej002]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1385228250' post='8195706']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1385221486' post='8195240']
Whatever - all true. Like I said its great that you have everything out there. [b]But I question the theory - look at what 8 put up.[/b]
[/quote]

Ok, cool, then maybe go onto another thread? (since this one has so many questionable theories, right?). I really don't know what the point of posts like yours is. Is the theory so offensive to you that you want discussion to cease? Do you want the guy to quit swinging like that? You have already made it clear multiple times that you don't agree with this stuff, and that's fine, but some of us might be interested. If you are trying to show the guy up, then, as others have said, post your action. Or point out how to fix these apparently flawed methods. Or ANYTHING that somewhat contributes to the discussion.
[/quote]
Forced number 3 for beginners.
Underplan higher rate of closure for superslotters, path way right, going to have to do the skim water / lay it back a bit to hold the face open. It's more forced positions IMO.

[bph7]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1385239317' post='8196376']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1385228250' post='8195706']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1385221486' post='8195240']
Whatever - all true. Like I said its great that you have everything out there. [b]But I question the theory - look at what 8 put up.[/b]
[/quote]

Ok, cool, then maybe go onto another thread? (since this one has so many questionable theories, right?). I really don't know what the point of posts like yours is. Is the theory so offensive to you that you want discussion to cease? Do you want the guy to quit swinging like that? You have already made it clear multiple times that you don't agree with this stuff, and that's fine, but some of us might be interested. If you are trying to show the guy up, then, as others have said, post your action. Or point out how to fix these apparently flawed methods. Or ANYTHING that somewhat contributes to the discussion.
[/quote]
Forced number 3 for beginners.
Underplan higher rate of closure for superslotters, path way right, going to have to do the skim water / lay it back a bit to hold the face open. It's more forced positions IMO.
[/quote]

Interesting stuff. A question about forced number 3: what does it take for number 3 NOT to be forced? Inherently, I understand why a beginner wouldn't want massive forearm rotation, but what circumstances must be present for higher number 3 to be beneficial?

[Hoganstriker]

[attachment=1960962:Snead.jpg]
[attachment=1960964:Nicklaus.jpg]
[attachment=1960966:Knudson.jpg]
[attachment=1960970:Player.jpg]

I see a lot of rotation in all these players. Saving rotation for post impact? Why would that be done? The ball is away...Notice Player really throwing himself at that driver on the bottom. Right heel up early maybe? He really throws himself into that left side while flattening out the club there.
Knudson probably has the least rotation of the lot of them.

[nepatriotsfan]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1385228944' post='8195766']
[quote name='nepatriotsfan' timestamp='1385226923' post='8195638']
You guys that are commenting on Brady's and Johns swings need to post your action. I need to see how close to hogan you swing the club. Also, John doesn't teach a hogan swing model. You will find examples of all the great ball strikers over at ABS.
[/quote]

ok so hogan isn't the model , just great ball strikers . can you show some great ball strikers that cp release it from the left arm position being that far in .......... school us
[/quote]

You didn't answer my original question. When are you going to post your swing? Waiting...

[Ezgolfer]

[quote name='nepatriotsfan' timestamp='1385244610' post='8196718']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1385228944' post='8195766']
[quote name='nepatriotsfan' timestamp='1385226923' post='8195638']
You guys that are commenting on Brady's and Johns swings need to post your action. I need to see how close to hogan you swing the club. Also, John doesn't teach a hogan swing model. You will find examples of all the great ball strikers over at ABS.
[/quote]

ok so hogan isn't the model , just great ball strikers . can you show some great ball strikers that cp release it from the left arm position being that far in .......... school us
[/quote]

You didn't answer my original question. When are you going to post your swing? Waiting...
[/quote]

Sorry,
That has nothing to do with the ongoing discussion.
Please stay on topic...

[ej002]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1385240162' post='8196424']
Interesting stuff. A question about forced number 3: what does it take for number 3 NOT to be forced? Inherently, I understand why a beginner wouldn't want massive forearm rotation, but what circumstances must be present for higher number 3 to be beneficial?
[/quote]
Shallow angle from the inside bad a** pivot. Synched up arms. I believe if you are under plane the head squares faster. So then you actually have to fight it releasing too early and if you are in to out you can understand the miss. I think that is what they try to speed the pivot up post impact and lift the arms. Lifting the arms in theory takes the club head outside the plane of the hands now lifting and slows rotation and also the speed up of pivot kind of holds it off. But I never been inside the secret forum, that's just what I think from watching the module drills I found on YouTube. One of their modules looks like a hold off, maybe the fourth? So they slam coming in hold off spin lift coming out. Literally looked like teeaces hold off drill. IMO sound like a lot of compensations just to force that super slot look.

[chrisgilly09]

Good stuff ej

[eightiron]

[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1385240886' post='8196474']
[attachment=1960962:Snead.jpg]
[attachment=1960964:Nicklaus.jpg]
[attachment=1960966:Knudson.jpg]
[attachment=1960970:Player.jpg]

I see a lot of rotation in all these players. Saving rotation for post impact? Why would that be done? The ball is away...Notice Player really throwing himself at that driver on the bottom. Right heel up early maybe? He really throws himself into that left side while flattening out the club there.
Knudson probably has the least rotation of the lot of them.
[/quote]

Saving rotation or post impact pivot thrust is abs terminology for some old morad info that erikson knocked off from Mac Ogrady . Basically it entails a couple of concepts such as rotate the shoulders hard and flat around to the left . Squeezing the feet into the ground ( towards one another) is also involved . Now I can't tell you if this was the exact morad protocol from 1980/90 but from what some guys in the know said , Mac puts a lot of stuff in the trash can . Now abs and erikson call their method a cp hitting protocol and that's fine , but how do you cp with that position heck even hogan didnt cp everything . If you going to latch on to morad terms and Tgm terms why not get them right

[veryscratch]

[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1385254690' post='8197396']
Good stuff ej
[/quote]

Chrisgilly09,

I second the motion.

Nfbandon is clearly so underplane he tries to steepen his R shoulder upwards.

Now Chrisgilly09 great great run. Time to study Bobby Locke and leave Hogan and Mac? Am I right (just guessing..:?

VS

[Donny Ross]

I just got sucked back into this site from a long hiatus...couldnt stay away.

Ive read all 4 pages and a couple observations:

1. I've sent my swing to Bradley. His observations helped, and I've reviewed his lesson notes often. I recommend sending him your swing videos, and I teach the game for a living.

2. Only ONE poster talked about whether or not he could even physically get the club into that flatter position. Many of you will NEVER be able to get the club into the position that some of these gentlemen prescribe to. You just physically might not be able to. Shame on any teacher that force-feeds you this before checking you out...and if they dont then find someone who knows how.

3. I find it interesting that someone 6-4 is using a 5-9 Ben Hogan as a swing model. I get it, but still. All that god-given leverage..

[nfbandon]

I don't use Hogan as a model, but everyone wants to compare me to him. I will address some of te comments when I have time. Family in town.

[veryscratch]

Nfbandon,

Ain't Brad clearly modeling Mr. Hogan? He talks about Hogan mostly in his videos. You saying he's teaching multiple patterns and yours is a different pattern?

VS

[eightiron]

[quote name='nepatriotsfan' timestamp='1385244610' post='8196718']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1385228944' post='8195766']
[quote name='nepatriotsfan' timestamp='1385226923' post='8195638']
You guys that are commenting on Brady's and Johns swings need to post your action. I need to see how close to hogan you swing the club. Also, John doesn't teach a hogan swing model. You will find examples of all the great ball strikers over at ABS.
[/quote]

ok so hogan isn't the model , just great ball strikers . can you show some great ball strikers that cp release it from the left arm position being that far in .......... school us
[/quote]

You didn't answer my original question. When are you going to post your swing? Waiting...
[/quote]

Sorry boss I missed your question , I did read a demand for posters commenting on pros swings! I didn't think it would be an issue to
Critique swings of pros and their methods . That said , mine has been posted before so you can do a search for it if you wish .

[veryscratch]

Great swing by nfbandon. I intend to continue commenting, did and prolly would disagree further on certain things. Does that mean I have to post up my swing? If not, great forum really. If yes, I retract all my comments and agree it's Hogan 100%!

VS

[ej002]

Similarities?

Teeace door drill

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HrGFep3PcA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HrGFep3PcA[/url]

and ABS module 3?

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAU1Mpbysxc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAU1Mpbysxc[/url]

[ej002]

Here are some more

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gGo4kWZSNY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gGo4kWZSNY[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giyM3suiBho"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giyM3suiBho[/url]

[tembolo1284]

Tapio = Legend.

[eightiron]

That's just brilliant ! The guy doing the module 3 looks like the 22 swings video . Anymore of these modules around? I can't say I agree with that concept of post impact thrust , it's just more morad info gone horribly wrong . In reality it's the tailbone release being coined with a new name . Here it looks like the cogs are reversed

[flatnstuck]

[quote name='veryscratch' timestamp='1385267245' post='8198160']
Nfbandon,

Ain't Brad clearly modeling Mr. Hogan? He talks about Hogan mostly in his videos. You saying he's teaching multiple patterns and yours is a different pattern?

VS
[/quote]


You could say that he's modeling early Knudson, Norman, Senior or Player. Neither Brad or John try to teach Hogan's pivot. They do aspire to teach what they see as common to the truly great strikers.

It's getting pretty boorish to watch the same few people try to pigeon hole ABS into a Hogan niche method. Far from it, but I suspect none of them have ever had instruction from JE or Brad.

As for Grady's leverage.... He doesn't lack for length. At all. And that's with some seriously stiff, heavy, and out of date gear.