Why do I hit driver/FW woods/hybrids/6-7-8-9i better than PW and GW????

One of the most frustrating things I deal w/ in this nutty game is that it's the shots under 125 yds that just kill me. When I'm hitting PW and GW well, I shoot mid- to high-70s, like last Saturday. Must've put 4-5 of PW/GW shots to within 3-6 feet to have really makeable par putts (on 2 of them I managed to miss the putt and make bogey anyway, in full disclosure). But today, in my lunchtime practice, my PW and GW were my worst as I went thru the bag (I do full swing work on Mondays). Anyone else hit the other, longer clubs well, and then are very inconsistent on the short clubs???? Seems so counterintuitive.

Again, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm a right arm/right side "thrower" (or trail-side release guy), not a "dragger". I've heard that left-side dominant "draggers" tend to be really accurate short iron players. But I hit 9 and 8 irons just fine (well, for a 55 yr. old guy, I guess), so I'm not sure that's it. Any ideas (other than to take up bowling)?

Dollars to donuts says that you're trying to be too precise with the wedges and that is causing you to not swing as freely as you do with the longer clubs where the targets aren't as small.

The best thing I did recently for my game was stop using the app on my phone for distances. I was trying so hard to hit that exact number that I wasn't swinging and my scores were averaging about 7-10 strokes higher than when I had started using the app.

Go look at pga tour level avg distance to hole from your pw-gw distance. Now double it cause your not a tour level player, and come back and tell us how bad those clubs really are.

Those 3-6 footers (which is not good but exceptional and unsustainable dispersion) should have been birdie putts not pars. Your problem on those holes happened before you had a wedge in your hand.

> @jut111 said:

> Go look at pga tour level avg distance to hole from your pw-gw distance. Now double it cause your not a tour level player, and come back and tell us how bad those clubs really are.

>

> Those 3-6 footers (which is not good but exceptional and unsustainable dispersion) should have been birdie putts not pars. Your problem on those holes happened before you had a wedge in your hand.

Not sure what your point is on the first part of your statement....I have no delusions about being as good as a PGA Tour pro; I mean, they don't hit full PWs from 115-120 yards; they hit them from 150-155 yds. Believe me, I'm pretty realistic about what a 12 hdcp is supposed to be able and not be able to do. And yes, if I could consistently put my PWs and GWs within 20 feet of the hole, I'd be happy.

Your second point is spot on, in a sense. That I was hitting PW and GW on those shots last weekend was a function of hitting a bad drive, or a pee-poor iron shot out of horrid bermuda rough that left me those distances. I mentioned those shots b/c for a day, at least, I was hitting those clubs w/ a precision that I don't normally. It remains a truism though, that I'm more likely to "gack" a full wedge, pitching or gap, than almost any other club....in near every way describable....thin, low push, high push, low hook, high pull, you name it, I can do it w/ a PW or GW in my hands.

I guess the real question is how do I get to where I can repeatedly hit good PWs and GWs, with the consistency (relatively speaking) that I hit 7 and 8 irons, or even hybrids?

Are you trying to hit full shots with your wedges, where you are swinging as long and fast as you would with a 7-iron? If so, then knock it off. Wedges are finesse clubs. Replace your full PW shot with a 3/4 swing with a 9-iron, then cover 50-120 yards with various partial length swings with your wedges.

If you are tall and are using standard length clubs, then maybe the short length of your wedges is an issue. I became more confident with my wedges when I got them lengthen by 1/2"

> @cadoipi said:

> Are you trying to hit full shots with your wedges, where you are swinging as long and fast as you would with a 7-iron? If so, then knock it off. Wedges are finesse clubs. Replace your full PW shot with a 3/4 swing with a 9-iron, then cover 50-120 yards with various partial length swings with your wedges.

>

> If you are tall and are using standard length clubs, then maybe the short length of your wedges is an issue. I became more confident with my wedges when I got them lengthen by 1/2"

I suspect that you could be correct, in that a lot of the time when I get that 120 yd shot, I'll hit the 9i out of such a preference for the 9 over the wedge, and will hit it in a very controlled manner. And if I hit it perfectly, well, I'll just have a 30 foot birdie putt above the hole; not ideal, but again to jut111's point (I think) about not being a tour-level player, how upset can a 12 hdcp be about having a 30 foot birdie putt???? Thanks for the advice; it's probably something I should always do instead of some of the time.

> @cadoipi said:

>

> If you are tall and are using standard length clubs, then maybe the short length of your wedges is an issue. I became more confident with my wedges when I got them lengthen by 1/2"

I'm 5'10", so the whole "too much time for something to go wrong getting back to the ball" that I hear tall guys bemoan doesn't plague me (although I certainly seem to have enough time for everything to go haywire!). I'd like to try that tall thing sometime; that leverage you guys build up on the way to the top would be nice to have! :smiley:

> @jc4birdie said:

>

> Again, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm a right arm/right side "thrower" (or trail-side release guy), not a "dragger". I've heard that left-side dominant "draggers" tend to be really accurate short iron players. But I hit 9 and 8 irons just fine (well, for a 55 yr. old guy, I guess), so I'm not sure that's it. Any ideas (other than to take up bowling)?

Swing method shouldn't matter. If you're hitting 9 and 8 good with your trail side release / throw the same swing should work for the wedges too. There are successful pros who say they use that swing method, and they got their wedges fine.

Are you setting up differently to the wedges (example: moving ball position back for wedge shots compared to where it is positioned for the 9 and 8)?

You should use the same balance, posture, and ball position on the wedges that you use for the 9 and 8.

Are your wedges a different model club from your 9 and 8? (Is the lie angles or weighting significantly different)?

Are the shaft models different?

Below is a picture of Greg Norman. Look at his setup of the mid/long iron and his setup with the wedge. Same ball position (in line with his ear, logo on his shirt, and at the edge of his hat). Same grip hanging in the same spot in front of his leg, same shaft position (straight up and down).


If you are setting up or trying to swing differently with wedges compared to the rest of your clubs you're doing yourself and disservice and making the game harder for yourself.

> @jc4birdie said:

> > @jut111 said:

> > Go look at pga tour level avg distance to hole from your pw-gw distance. Now double it cause your not a tour level player, and come back and tell us how bad those clubs really are.

> >

> > Those 3-6 footers (which is not good but exceptional and unsustainable dispersion) should have been birdie putts not pars. Your problem on those holes happened before you had a wedge in your hand.

>

> Not sure what your point is on the first part of your statement....I have no delusions about being as good as a PGA Tour pro; I mean, they don't hit full PWs from 115-120 yards; they hit them from 150-155 yds. Believe me, I'm pretty realistic about what a 12 hdcp is supposed to be able and not be able to do. And yes, if I could consistently put my PWs and GWs within 20 feet of the hole, I'd be happy.

>

> Your second point is spot on, in a sense. That I was hitting PW and GW on those shots last weekend was a function of hitting a bad drive, or a pee-poor iron shot out of horrid bermuda rough that left me those distances. I mentioned those shots b/c for a day, at least, I was hitting those clubs w/ a precision that I don't normally. It remains a truism though, that I'm more likely to "gack" a full wedge, pitching or gap, than almost any other club....in near every way describable....thin, low push, high push, low hook, high pull, you name it, I can do it w/ a PW or GW in my hands.

>

> I guess the real question is how do I get to where I can repeatedly hit good PWs and GWs, with the consistency (relatively speaking) that I hit 7 and 8 irons, or even hybrids?

My point was is/ your probably not as bad as you think you are with a wedge. I suspect your expectations on what is good are skewed.

> @"Golf Scientist" said:

> > @jc4birdie said:

> >

> > Again, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm a right arm/right side "thrower" (or trail-side release guy), not a "dragger". I've heard that left-side dominant "draggers" tend to be really accurate short iron players. But I hit 9 and 8 irons just fine (well, for a 55 yr. old guy, I guess), so I'm not sure that's it. Any ideas (other than to take up bowling)?

>

> Swing method shouldn't matter. If you're hitting 9 and 8 good with your trail side release / throw the same swing should work for the wedges too. There are successful pros who say they use that swing method, and they got their wedges fine.

>

> Are you setting up differently to the wedges (example: moving ball position back for wedge shots compared to where it is positioned for the 9 and 8)?

> You should use the same balance, posture, and ball position on the wedges that you use for the 9 and 8.

>

> Are your wedges a different model club from your 9 and 8? (Is the lie angles or weighting significantly different)?

> Are the shaft models different?

>

> Below is a picture of Greg Norman. Look at his setup of the mid/long iron and his setup with the wedge. Same ball position (in line with his ear, logo on his shirt, and at the edge of his hat). Same grip hanging in the same spot in front of his leg, same shaft position (straight up and down).

> 

>

> If you are setting up or trying to swing differently with wedges compared to the rest of your clubs you're doing yourself and disservice and making the game harder for yourself.

>

No, I try to use what I think is the same setup for wedges as other clubs; however, you do bring up a good point that I failed to relate in the first post. It DOES sometimes feel as if I have to "reach" a touch to the ball w/ the wedges that I don't get that feel w/ the 9i thru driver. Perhaps I need to get a bit closer to the ball; a fraction?

> @"Golf Scientist" said:

> > @jc4birdie said:

> >

> > Again, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm a right arm/right side "thrower" (or trail-side release guy), not a "dragger". I've heard that left-side dominant "draggers" tend to be really accurate short iron players. But I hit 9 and 8 irons just fine (well, for a 55 yr. old guy, I guess), so I'm not sure that's it. Any ideas (other than to take up bowling)?

>

> Swing method shouldn't matter. If you're hitting 9 and 8 good with your trail side release / throw the same swing should work for the wedges too. There are successful pros who say they use that swing method, and they got their wedges fine.

>

> Are you setting up differently to the wedges (example: moving ball position back for wedge shots compared to where it is positioned for the 9 and 8)?

> You should use the same balance, posture, and ball position on the wedges that you use for the 9 and 8.

>

> Are your wedges a different model club from your 9 and 8? (Is the lie angles or weighting significantly different)?

> Are the shaft models different?

>

> Below is a picture of Greg Norman. Look at his setup of the mid/long iron and his setup with the wedge. Same ball position (in line with his ear, logo on his shirt, and at the edge of his hat). Same grip hanging in the same spot in front of his leg, same shaft position (straight up and down).

> 

>

> If you are setting up or trying to swing differently with wedges compared to the rest of your clubs you're doing yourself and disservice and making the game harder for yourself.

>

My PW and GW are from the same set as all my irons, and were fitted to me. Same shafts, heads, and grips.

On another point, you mentioned GNorman's setup all having the shaft straight up and down, which is something I do at address (fwd press really throws my takeaway out of kilter, although some guys use it well)...but in looking at those pics, IS the shaft straight up and down on that wedge set up? In other words, would a SMIDGE or TOUCH of fwd. press be indicated for wedge set up (full or 3/4 shots)??? Would be something I'd be hesitant to do, but that pic to me looks like Greg has a touch of fwd. press to that wedge.

tough crowd

I get you. PW is by far the worst club in my bag unless i'm chipping with it. its about 20yds shorter than my 9 and yess i've had the lofts checked etc. I hate my PW and I've tried swapping it out with different models. To no avail.

> @jc4birdie said:

> > @"Golf Scientist" said:

> > > @jc4birdie said:

> > >

> > > Again, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm a right arm/right side "thrower" (or trail-side release guy), not a "dragger". I've heard that left-side dominant "draggers" tend to be really accurate short iron players. But I hit 9 and 8 irons just fine (well, for a 55 yr. old guy, I guess), so I'm not sure that's it. Any ideas (other than to take up bowling)?

> >

> > Swing method shouldn't matter. If you're hitting 9 and 8 good with your trail side release / throw the same swing should work for the wedges too. There are successful pros who say they use that swing method, and they got their wedges fine.

> >

> > Are you setting up differently to the wedges (example: moving ball position back for wedge shots compared to where it is positioned for the 9 and 8)?

> > You should use the same balance, posture, and ball position on the wedges that you use for the 9 and 8.

> >

> > Are your wedges a different model club from your 9 and 8? (Is the lie angles or weighting significantly different)?

> > Are the shaft models different?

> >

> > Below is a picture of Greg Norman. Look at his setup of the mid/long iron and his setup with the wedge. Same ball position (in line with his ear, logo on his shirt, and at the edge of his hat). Same grip hanging in the same spot in front of his leg, same shaft position (straight up and down).

> > 

> >

> > If you are setting up or trying to swing differently with wedges compared to the rest of your clubs you're doing yourself and disservice and making the game harder for yourself.

> >

>

> No, I try to use what I think is the same setup for wedges as other clubs; however, you do bring up a good point that I failed to relate in the first post. It DOES sometimes feel as if I have to "reach" a touch to the ball w/ the wedges that I don't get that feel w/ the 9i thru driver. Perhaps I need to get a bit closer to the ball; a fraction?

Somebody else mentioned it but it just might be the shorter shaft. Try a single length pw at 7 iron length. Might help.

> @jc4birdie said:

> On another point, you mentioned GNorman's setup all having the shaft straight up and down, which is something I do at address (fwd press really throws my takeaway out of kilter, although some guys use it well)...but in looking at those pics, IS the shaft straight up and down on that wedge set up? In other words, would a SMIDGE or TOUCH of fwd. press be indicated for wedge set up (full or 3/4 shots)??? Would be something I'd be hesitant to do, but that pic to me looks like Greg has a touch of fwd. press to that wedge.

According to Greg Norman and Butch Harmon at the time of the making of the Advanced Golf book, and the Better Golf instruction series Greg's goal was to have a consistent setup where he had the same setup regardless of club, and that included all the shafts being straight up and down. If you think he is doing otherwise there could be two things making it look that way (#1 it's a small blurry picture from another location on the forum that someone else originally posted. #2 there is no guarantee the photographer was at the same exact angle face on for each shot that made up that picture). The important thing is both Norman and Harmon both said the ideal is to have the shaft straight up and down from face on view for all clubs on all regular shots.