Hogan's arms/hands and his shirt buttons

I've read this in passing, wanted to hear more though. Some people say hogan's hands never got past the right side of his torso in the DS until well past impact. Those guys I believe don't think he was low left or at least he didn't have low left intent.

But I kind of think his hands did get past his shirt buttons in DS close to impact, because he was so pitch elbow and arms very in front. Especially young man hogan. Which one was it? Does it matter?

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXVtAhlkSGQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXVtAhlkSGQ[/url]

This video should improve the conversation. Thanks BHSP.

Personally, I don't know if his hands got past his buttons or not, but here's why I was asking.

Today I was swinging really well (for me). And part of the feel that I had was like in P6 (delivery), like my shoulders were still slightly closed to the target, while my left arm was already even with the ball or in front of it. SO basically like my left arm/hand was so in front it was already in front of my left pocket at delivery when club still very inside and shoulders still shut. That was just the feel. And it made my release look more hoganish (to my untrained eye).

And that position/feel helped straiten out my path at the ball. Because from there, as I open, my hands feel like they want to go way left, which I need to offset how far inside I have the club. Does that make sense? In that video to me it looks like hogan could be classified as that.

Almost like he's underplane and was shallow, so his hands need to cut left to zero out the path. But the cutting left happens IMO from Pivot opening fast and him having elbow WAY in front. Power golf swing illustrates this even more IMO. I'll post what I'm doing now too just to try to illustrate it later.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vZXg1Zg4VY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vZXg1Zg4VY[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wlIIg6JQiU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wlIIg6JQiU[/url]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357519952' post='6180489']
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vZXg1Zg4VY[/media]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wlIIg6JQiU[/media]
[/quote]

Take a look at the freeze frames on both these videos, thats exactly what im talking about. Shoulders shut, club crazy shallow/under plane. Arms WAY WAY in front, DEEP pitch elbow (sorry I didnt even read TGW but I think that;s what pitch is).

I believe even if his hands didn't get past his buttons, it sure feels like that in that delivery position, its like his hands are past his bottons already at delivery.

In the front view I think I see what you mean about his hands being left of his shirt buttons, but isn't that an illusion when his body is open relative to the camera?

I just ordered a 1948 edition of power golf on eBay yesterday which has all those excellent pics in it. Can't wait for it to come in!

Here's a slightly different perspective where the camera is setup a bit to the left. This way his torso would be square to the camera either at or a bit after impact. It's not perfect, but I think it shows his hands don't go beyond his shirt buttons? What I do see is a tone of extension...is that possible if the intent is swing left?

[attachment=1479179:IMG_0186.jpg]

Gotta think about this thread a bit.

I was 100% wrong. I had it completely backwards. His arms are always on right side of shirt buttons until very late. As TeeAce says, it's simple geometry. If his hands get left of his shirt buttons his right arm would be strait. We all know it's bent forever.

Realizing this allowed me to make huge strides through impact with maintain right arm bend.

Good stuff tyler. In time you will be quite the sexy ballstriker!

word up. I'm excited for this season. It'll be nice to not hit is sideways all the time. Seeing Geoff in ATL in a few weeks too.

I could have sworn there use to be more posts in this thread. Someone must of got kicked out....again!

Yes, hands well right of mid-line of his body well into followthrough before crossing mid-line. And not just Hogan - probably 90% of top notch ballstrikers over the years feature this in their swings. The Arm Swing Illusion makes it "look like" the hands/arms have crossed mid-line even before impact - 100% incorrect understanding.

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1360356617' post='6390017']
Yes, hands well right of mid-line of his body well into followthrough before crossing mid-line. And not just Hogan - probably 90% of top notch ballstrikers over the years feature this in their swings. The Arm Swing Illusion makes it "look like" the hands/arms have crossed mid-line even before impact - 100% incorrect understanding.
[/quote]

Yep. Your posts were extremely helpful.

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1360355256' post='6389859']
I could have sworn there use to be more posts in this thread. Someone must of got kicked out....again!
[/quote]

I think you are correct. I almost miss some of the know-it-alls who got the boot. At least they kept the action going.

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1360358201' post='6390175']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1360355256' post='6389859']
I could have sworn there use to be more posts in this thread. Someone must of got kicked out....again!
[/quote]

I think you are correct. I almost miss some of the know-it-alls who got the boot. At least they kept the action going.
[/quote]

I completely agree. Some of those guys were crotchety but knowledgeable. I'm more than willing to get abused and beat up a bit as long as I'm learning something.

I miss that polish dude that would give the most complicated description of the anatomy and how a body part worked its best...and then apologize because he mixed cases in pronouns and claimed he misunderstood and his english wasn't so good.

Great dude.

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1360360662' post='6390437']
I miss that polish dude that would give the most complicated description of the anatomy and how a body part worked its best...and then apologize because he mixed cases in pronouns and claimed he misunderstood and his english wasn't so good.

Great dude.
[/quote]

Dariusz!

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1360360662' post='6390437']
I miss that polish dude that would give the most complicated description of the anatomy and how a body part worked its best...and then apologize because he mixed cases in pronouns and claimed he misunderstood and his english wasn't so good.

Great dude.
[/quote]

He's active on manzella's site, although that place is a can of worms in a good and bad way imo

Here's a slightly different perspective where the camera is setup a bit to the left. This way his torso would be square to the camera either at or a bit after impact. It's not perfect, but I think it shows his hands don't go beyond his shirt buttons? What I do see is a tone of extension...is that possible if the intent is swing left?

 

 

I love those pictures! I wonder how many swings it took to record a "sequence" like this in the '40s.

Here's a slightly different perspective where the camera is setup a bit to the left. This way his torso would be square to the camera either at or a bit after impact. It's not perfect, but I think it shows his hands don't go beyond his shirt buttons? What I do see is a tone of extension...is that possible if the intent is swing left?

 

 

 

I love those pictures! I wonder how many swings it took to record a "sequence" like this in the '40s.

 

Ha! I never noticed that the background changes at each position. I like this perspective because you get a sense that his hips are making a very wide turn in the downswing with everything moving together. A very big circle.

It's def a great sequence.

I was thinking about this....you think hogan didn't have a synced up arm and body swing?

I think he was synced. So I don't think his arms and hands were way behind his shirt buttons. Would signify as stuck then ya?

Yeah I know what you mean. They definitely weren't way behind his mid line. But they are definitely behind. However, like Whittaker points out, right elbow is always very in front of hip. So he's in that "sweet spot" of being as behind as possible to maintain max right arm bend, while being as in front as possible to eliminate any "stuck" possibility while making syncing automatic. Do that and rotate on Kelvins chi line with a good grip and proper sequencing and your a boss.

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4kTPmb_17Mw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4kTPmb_17Mw[/url]

she does a good job

the faster he turns..the faster he can swing his arms...and vice versa --> BOOM!

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1360682542' post='6413011']
I was thinking about this....you think hogan didn't have a synced up arm and body swing?

I think he was synced. So I don't think his arms and hands were way behind his shirt buttons. Would signify as stuck then ya?
[/quote]

As long as his right arm is bent then his hands should be behind his buttons no? The way I look at sync and out-of-sync is if at any point in the swing you were to straighten the bend in both left and right elbows then the hands should be directly in front of shirt buttons to be in-sync. If they are to the right (or left) of the buttons then they are out of sync.

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1360686238' post='6413491']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1360682542' post='6413011']
I was thinking about this....you think hogan didn't have a synced up arm and body swing?

I think he was synced. So I don't think his arms and hands were way behind his shirt buttons. Would signify as stuck then ya?
[/quote]

As long as his right arm is bent then his hands should be behind his buttons no? The way I look at sync and out-of-sync is if at any point in the swing you were to straighten the bend in both left and right elbows then the hands should be directly in front of shirt buttons to be in-sync. If they are to the right (or left) of the buttons then they are out of sync.
[/quote]

Literally yes but you must be open at impact...no good player has perfectly square hips and shoulders at impact. So from the 'in sync' perspective he is leading the way with his body...but his arms aren't soooo far behind him as is implied...otherwise he'd be stuck.

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1360686447' post='6413521']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1360686238' post='6413491']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1360682542' post='6413011']
I was thinking about this....you think hogan didn't have a synced up arm and body swing?

I think he was synced. So I don't think his arms and hands were way behind his shirt buttons. Would signify as stuck then ya?
[/quote]

As long as his right arm is bent then his hands should be behind his buttons no? The way I look at sync and out-of-sync is if at any point in the swing you were to straighten the bend in both left and right elbows then the hands should be directly in front of shirt buttons to be in-sync. If they are to the right (or left) of the buttons then they are out of sync.
[/quote]

Literally yes but you must be open at impact...no good player has perfectly square hips and shoulders at impact. So from the 'in sync' perspective he is leading the way with his body...but his arms aren't soooo far behind him as is implied...otherwise he'd be stuck.
[/quote]

totally, you will be open at impact and still in sync because the right arm will be bent. Now if you take that impact position and just extend the right arm straight then the hands will be directly inline with the buttons from a point of view that's square with the shoulders. If they are still right of buttons then as you say he'd be stuck.

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1360686829' post='6413577']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1360686447' post='6413521']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1360686238' post='6413491']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1360682542' post='6413011']
I was thinking about this....you think hogan didn't have a synced up arm and body swing?

I think he was synced. So I don't think his arms and hands were way behind his shirt buttons. Would signify as stuck then ya?
[/quote]

As long as his right arm is bent then his hands should be behind his buttons no? The way I look at sync and out-of-sync is if at any point in the swing you were to straighten the bend in both left and right elbows then the hands should be directly in front of shirt buttons to be in-sync. If they are to the right (or left) of the buttons then they are out of sync.
[/quote]

Literally yes but you must be open at impact...no good player has perfectly square hips and shoulders at impact. So from the 'in sync' perspective he is leading the way with his body...but his arms aren't soooo far behind him as is implied...otherwise he'd be stuck.
[/quote]

totally, you will be open at impact and still in sync because the right arm will be bent. Now if you take that impact position and just extend the right arm straight then the hands will be directly inline with the buttons from a point of view that's square with the shoulders. If they are still right of buttons then as you say he'd be stuck.
[/quote]

Boom baby!

Very informative, makes total sense. Thanks all!