Delete me.

[Froth]

I was so wrong it's hilarious. DELETED BAD INFO.

[mikpga]

Long and Straight is the name of the game...

Enjoy your Golf...

[itsjappo]

glad if this swing works for you. as long as you can control and predict your ball flight consistently to enjoy the game, then that's all really what matters. i would say this is more of a "secret" for you specifically because its by far no where close to what hogan did but you found something that works well for you so keep doing it. =) i have the secret too, but im not sharing. no way.

[Froth]

I was so wrong it's hilarious. DELETED BAD INFO.

[crapula]

I just changed to a very light pressured grip with the feeling mostly in my fingertips and the bottom part of my left palm.

I changed to this lighter grip because I used to grip a little hard and now I have a ganglion cyst under my left wrist. Also I used to push too hard on my left thumb with the palm of my right hand but I tore the tendon (extensor pollicis longus) slightly. I too swung where my right hand would come off my thumb so I switched to the hard grip.

Here's my secret for free, you will hurt your hands playing like this. One smack of the club on a root or ground that doesn't give, or hitting a little fat and BAM!

[Froth]

I was so wrong it's hilarious. DELETED BAD INFO.

[crapula]

[quote name='Froth' timestamp='1377121673' post='7721508']

Whatever works for you may not work for another. Bodies are built differently, hands are built differently - I could go on and on.
[/quote]

Oh, so this isn't a Ben Hogan secret thread, it's a thread about something that is currently working for you. Well, keep it up and have fun.

[Froth]

If we all were built just like Mr. Hogan and used the same length/loft/lie clubs perhaps it would pertain to everyone. We also don't spend an hour hitting each individual club on the range like Mr. Hogan did. He practiced more than ANYONE.

- I'm sure we could generalize some more things as well We all swing differently, we all have different body compositions.

His secret was the way he cured a snap-hook and nothing more. I had a horrid snap-hook, and I cured it - I believe with the same method he used. I literally stumbled upon it trying different things. It is working for me, it may not work for someone with smaller hands. To figure that out, we'd need an exact copy of Mr. Hogan with smaller weaker hands to try it and see. Catch what I'm putting down now?

"what if's that make sense" - I titled it that way for a reason. What if Hogan had super small hands? Would he have used a different method? Would he have had a snap-hook in the first place? Etc etc etc.

[crapula]

Didn't Hogan have smaller hands? He was 5' 8" so I assume he was either a medium or small glove in todays standards.

Really though, hand size relative to grip size is more relevant than just hand size alone.

[tembolo1284]

What a great thread.

[Froth]

Didn't Hogan have smaller hands? He was 5' 8" so I assume he was either a medium or small glove in todays standards.

 

Really though, hand size relative to grip size is more relevant than just hand size alone.

Hogan had large hands for his size, specifically even his fingers were wide - Check it out.

Compare his hand width to his wrist width, specifically look at his massive palm base compared to wrist size, especially his left hand.

 

When Ted Williams met Mr. Hogan in '51 he was quoted as saying "I just shook a hand that felt like five bands of steel" - Hogan had incredibly strong hands.

 

Ultra mega closeup of Hogan at the top of the backswing -

Not an single mm of gap between his right palm base and top of his left thumb. If we had a device to measure his grip pressure while he was swinging back then I bet we'd find out for sure that he had a very firm grip(You can see the skin on the base of his right palm "bunching up" from being pressed against his left hand.). Look how large his wrists are! You don't get large wrists from "lightly gripping" things, you get large wrists from Grabbing down HARD on things for a LONG time.

 

I remember reading somewhere that Hogan preferred smaller grips.

[dairic]

Looks not quite as tight here.

[attachment=1847406:Hogan top of backswing.jpg]

[Froth]

Pictures, blah. Look at his wrists, he's got extra mega beef wrists! I wish the pic I posted above showed his face/body - so we could get a proper age so we knew which version of his swing he was using then. He changed and adapted his swing so well over the years it makes me jealous.

[dairic]

[quote name='Froth' timestamp='1377226932' post='7729460']
Pictures, blah. Look at his wrists, he's got extra mega beef wrists! I wish the pic I posted above showed his face/body - so we could get a proper age so we knew which version of his swing he was using then. He changed and adapted his swing so well over the years it makes me jealous.
[/quote]

Both the pictures you and I posted appeared in the 1955 Life Magazine article "This is my secret". Mine on the cover, and yours in the article. So basically the secret's been out for almost 60 years now.

Cupping, pronation, and weak grip...that's the secret that made his swing hook proof.

[Froth]

I wish I was as in tune with my own body as Hogan was... Craziness. Thanks for that other pic! The super closeup being in sepia tone threw my eyes off, made his skin/hair look darker/aged more.

[crapula]

This thread did lead me to try something tonight at the range. Firm grip right hand and light grip left hand, control the backswing with right hand, then downswing with left arm keeping the firm right hand and light left hand. Also tried the opposite, firm left hand and light right hand, control backswing with left hand then down swing with right arm keeping the firm left hand and light hand. They both worked, I hit it almost exactly the same as I usually do.

[Froth]

I tend to favor the harder grip to my right hand, and I start the back-swing by pulling my left arm backwards with my right hand - I find it gets me on-plane and better transfers my weight. My left hand isn't as tight as when I first started this technique, but it's pretty firm. Right hand is still going to town though, it's gripping HARD.

Edit: I don't want anyone to mistake this thread for a "Wow swing this way and you'll be perfect!" type of thread. This thread is for people who struggle with a hook. I went from hitting a "natural draw" and having 1-2 Snap-hooks per round(Usually getting me in nasty trouble) to hitting a nice high fade and NO HOOKS at all. Over a month, 20+ practice sessions and 10+ rounds and not a single solitary snap hook. Happy day!

[8thehardway]

[size=5]"Wake up, time for your lesson."[/size]

[size=4][b]Curse of the Ho-gun[/b] [/size] movie poster. Zombie golfer takes secret technique - and all who figure it out - to his grave.

[dairic]

Hogan recommended that in the right hand most of the pressure be in the two middle fingers, and in the left hand in the last three. Death grip would apply 100% pressure with all fingers wouldn't it?

And even thought he had beefy wrist, they were allowed to fully c@ck, which means he wasn't impeding wrist range of motion through stiff wrists.

I'd say loose wrist and firm grip but not death grip.

[crapula]

[quote name='Froth' timestamp='1377234233' post='7729932']
I tend to favor the harder grip to my right hand, and I start the back-swing by pulling my left arm backwards with my right hand - I find it gets me on-plane and better transfers my weight. My left hand isn't as tight as when I first started this technique, but it's pretty firm. Right hand is still going to town though, it's gripping HARD.

Edit: I don't want anyone to mistake this thread for a "Wow swing this way and you'll be perfect!" type of thread. This thread is for people who struggle with a hook. I went from hitting a "natural draw" and having 1-2 Snap-hooks per round(Usually getting me in nasty trouble) to hitting a nice high fade and NO HOOKS at all. Over a month, 20+ practice sessions and 10+ rounds and not a single solitary snap hook. Happy day!
[/quote]

Then maybe this doesn't belong in the Hogan forum as I and many others highly doubt that Hogan used a death grip with all fingers while pushing his right hand firmly down on his left thumb. Like the post above says, middle two fingers of right, last three of left.

Oh, and your swing is not on plane. Way inside on takeaway then reroute over the backswing plane with early extension and loss of balance falling forward. But, who cares? You are hitting drives that carry 300 yards, so that's awesome.

[tembolo1284]

Those are awesome pics. Dude had hands like a vice.

Yes...I just called Hogan 'dude'.

[Froth]

I was so wrong it's hilarious. DELETED BAD INFO.

[crapula]

[quote name='Froth' timestamp='1377278734' post='7732491']
[quote name='crapula' timestamp='1377275049' post='7732093']
[quote name='Froth' timestamp='1377234233' post='7729932']
I tend to favor the harder grip to my right hand, and I start the back-swing by pulling my left arm backwards with my right hand - I find it gets me on-plane and better transfers my weight. My left hand isn't as tight as when I first started this technique, but it's pretty firm. Right hand is still going to town though, it's gripping HARD.

Edit: I don't want anyone to mistake this thread for a "Wow swing this way and you'll be perfect!" type of thread. This thread is for people who struggle with a hook. I went from hitting a "natural draw" and having 1-2 Snap-hooks per round(Usually getting me in nasty trouble) to hitting a nice high fade and NO HOOKS at all. Over a month, 20+ practice sessions and 10+ rounds and not a single solitary snap hook. Happy day!
[/quote]
Oh, and your swing is not on plane. Way inside on takeaway then reroute over the backswing plane with early extension and loss of balance falling forward. But, who cares? You are hitting drives that carry 300 yards, so that's awesome.
[/quote]
I guess I shouldn't say "on plane" - I should say, My address shaft angle matches impact. So, for a second at least - I get back to where I need to be
[/quote]

Well, it shouldn't. The shaft should look a little steeper and the hands will be a little higher when viewed from behind because the hips have rotated open, shoulders have rotated open, and the hands are higher as a result. There is more going on than just that, but, the shaft angle at address should not match the shaft angle at impact when viewed from behind.

[Froth]

I was so wrong it's hilarious. DELETED BAD INFO.

THANK YOU CRAPULA FOR LETTING ME SEE THE LIGHT.

[crapula]

[quote name='Froth' timestamp='1377282332' post='7732853']
Lol, you're just dead-set on going crazy on my swing aren't you(One where I don't even hit a ball, and am in sandals) Well, Enjoy! I didn't say my Plane was the same as impact, I said my shaft angle matches address. I address the ball with an Impact-Ready shaft plane, Not with my hands below it like most golfers. I do things different than most, Because it works for me as you said above. Like Moe Norman, I address the ball with my hands at "impact position". Which is higher than I used to. We each have our own swing and methods(obviously) So, there's nothing I that "should look" for me, there's just what is.

Perhaps you're trying to de-rail the thread from its original intended purpose? I can find no other reason for unsolicited swing advice based on fundamentals that were derived from just-another golfer. This is my main issue with people giving swing advice, the fundamentals came about from studying golf swings...What if the golfer that all fundamentals were derived from way-back-when was Jim Furyk? What would you be telling me then? Fall out of a tree like an Octopus?

What if's that make sense. My Friend.
[/quote]

I am trying to derail your death grip proclaim that it cures hooks and that Ben Hogan must have done that. So once again, I think you posted this in the wrong forum.

I'm not giving swing advice, simply stating that what you claim the death grip does for you is not what is happening in reality.

[Froth]

I went through and DELETED all of my BAD INFO - Seriously, it was BAD - TERRIBLE. Hogan may have used a lot of grip pressure, but it certainly wasn't his full secret, he obviously had much more at work than just "Death gripping" the club. I learned that through my own head today, Someone had to hammer it into me and Crapula, you did!

Somehow over the course of the last week I managed to get entirely too-steep with my swing, like, Scary steep. Even since I started this thread my swing somehow changed and I was trying to combine my old and new swings somehow...

I went out and played 18 today - Wow, I don't often take heed to unsolicited advice but somehow during the last week or so I've been managing to come WAY over the top and outside, like a SCARY amount for me. I'd like to actually thank you for pointing out everything you did with my swing. I think I started doing the death grip then translated that into what I was seeing with shot-shape and well, I was dead wrong - So I spent the front nine today learning how wrong I was with massive misses to the left and horrible horrible ball contact. Somehow I got into my head that I was "Fixing" my hook when I was actually making my swing WORSE by coming in so far over the top. I actually started doing the reverse of what I normally do! which is bring it back outside and drop it inside! By the back nine, I found my swing again, stopped coming over the top and my shots were much much much better.

Thank you so much for your insight, You've proven me wrong and I couldn't be happier! Sometimes it just takes the right person saying things the right way to me!

[crapula]

That's nice. I won the internet I guess? I can hit snappers doing any number of different swings, there are so many different causes, but the one cause that is always there is a massively closed clubface relative to path.


Hooking is like herpes, once you get it you always have it, you can cover it up with a bandaid or take a pill, but it will always come back right before you score, there is no cure.

[ej002]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1377219989' post='7728714']
Looks not quite as tight here.

[attachment=1847406:Hogan top of backswing.jpg]
[/quote]

Funny thread, deleted bad info... awesome.

This pic^^^ I am re-posting as a shout out to H101/Vincenzo/Miguel my belle.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='botwell' timestamp='1375799984' post='7615640']
I have tried some of this and man it makes me as tense as a prostate exam
[/quote]

This was awesome.