Best Wedge Bounce for Bandon Dunes (Sand & Course)?

[Whackit]

Simple question - am sure not a simple answer. (Apologies if this is the wrong forum!)

 

What is the best bounce for Bandon Dunes (all courses)? I was initially going to ask just with regard to the sand, but realized that whatever I take on the course I'm stuck with for all shots. I've played all courses a number of times and I always struggle with the sand (shoot high 80's / low 90's unless I have a six in a bunker!).

 

I've always had/used Vokey SM2 54/10 and 60/04. They worked well on the grass (I'm a sweeper) but - as you might imagine - I can't do anything out of the sand. I'm heading up again in March and I'm thinking about moving to a three wedge set (52/56/60) and am interested in opinions on the best "bounce" options for Bandon.

[Chris_NH]

There's an entire recent thread devoted to this very topic in the Northwest sub-folder.

[Whackit]

Yes and no. That thread got hijacked into a discussion on whether to bring a 64* lob wedge. I'm asking people's opinion on what bounce given the dangers of sand, but the reality of tight grass lies. One wants bounce, the other does not. I've played Bandon and haven't figured it out. Perhaps other's have opinions. Note: Assume I'm going to play 2-3 wedges (not whether or not to bring them). What is the "best" bounce for the courses?

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

You want to play your best golf when you're spending thousands of dollars on a trip like that. Play the same wedges you've been playing and are used to. The "wrong" bounce on a wedge you've played a few hundred rounds with is far better than somebody's brilliant idea of the "right" bounce on a wedge you put in the bag a few weeks before leaving on your trip.

[njlam]

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1391271556' post='8577830']
You want to play your best golf when you're spending thousands of dollars on a trip like that. Play the same wedges you've been playing and are used to. The "wrong" bounce on a wedge you've played a few hundred rounds with is far better than somebody's brilliant idea of the "right" bounce on a wedge you put in the bag a few weeks before leaving on your trip.
[/quote]

I generally agree with this, however, there are certain considerations to think about.

At my home course, I usually carry a low bounce 64 degree (for dry hard green conditions) which would be useless in the wind at Bandon.

Generally, I think you need a high bounce wedge for the sand, and a low bounce wedge for tight lies. Most times, I carry a 51 with low bounce (for 100 yd approaches), a 56 with high bounce, and a 60 with low bounce.

That being said, if I had to make any changes for Bandon, I would keep the 51, use a low bounce 56 and a high bounce 60 (for the sand). Many of Bandon's greenside bunkers require a higher, shorter shot (#15 at BD, #11 at PD, #13 at BT, etc), so a higher bounce 60 is worth it.

[dlygrisse]

This is why I carry a Vokey 58.12 with a C grind, bounce when you want it, a C grind that allows you to lay it open on tighter lies or slide the heel under it and pinch it.

plus 12 degrees bounce is not too much off of tight lies if you use the right technique.

[gp7xs]

I've recently been to Bandon and have also played a lot of links golf in Scotland and Ireland so I guess I can give you my opinion on the matter.

My bag setup has me playing a 50, 55 and 60. All of my wedges have what one would consider high bounce. AS you said, most bunker shots on links courses require higher launch, so having a good amount of bounce is crucial. I've found myself using my 60* a lot more often then my 55* in bunkers. My chipping/pitching club is my 55* (when I'm not hitting a bump and run) and this one also has a high bounce. What I have found through my time on the links is that even though you get quite a few tigh lies around the greens, very few one them actually require you to hit the ball high (and that's true off almost all the shots you play on links courses, appart from bunkers). By using the right technique (ball back, very little wrist hinge and hitting down on it) you can play off of those tight lies just as well, if not better. Therefore I've never seen the need for a lower bounce wedge.

So my recommandation would be to make sure you have a lot of bounce on the club you plan on using to get out of bunkers. Then just make sure that the other wedges you use have bounce with which you are confortable hitting bump and runs, chip and pitch shots and other short game shots not matter the type of grass you're playing on.

[Whackit]

Good stuff. While I agree that changing clubs right before going to Bandon sounds silly, (1) my performance in sand with low-bounce 54* & 60* has been so bad from [i]sand[/i] that I'm not worried about getting worse, and (2) my go-to Vokeys took a walk last summer so I've been trying lots of variations.

I like the advice to have at least one (56 or 60) with sufficient bounce for sand. I think if I have a really hard time off the tight grass lies I'll either putt or practice lower lofted chip & runs. I suspect the one tough spot will be the tight grass lie, [i]over[/i] a bunker, to a hard green (think #3 & #17 lower left Pacific) - that's where bounce may be tough. But I chunk those even without bounce (I'm weak!). Even though this seems such an obvious thread for you guys who are dialed in on wedges or sand, it's actually been helpful for me. At least by making an "informed" decision, I won't be tempted to blame my wedges and therefore second-guess my shot choice a bit less. Thanks all!

[golfheaven69]

Practice hitting off pavement before you go. Lies are super tight.

[edryer3]

Im going at the end of Febuary and I have a 57* w/ 17 deg of bounce and a 52 w/ 10* of bounce that I am taking. I figue I am going to be playing a lot of bump and runs w/ my 52,PW, 9,8,7 and so on and I have my 57* for bunkers or the flop shot if I need it. But I can manipulate my bounce a bit to take some off if I need to. I am trying not to think about it to much and play with what I have been playing. I guess if you are unsure get there a little bit early and play with some wedge shots at the range before your round. It also depends on the wind as well with what type of shot your gonna play. First year I went I played my normal game cause there was no wind. Have fun and tell us about it!!!

[Chris_NH]

This seems to be a popular topic for people about to visit Bandon. I'm sure it varies for each person, but IMO it doesn't matter.

At Bandon you have to have a different mindset. Your first/default option anywhere within 15-20 yards of the green (or more) should be to pull your putter. The only reason you should consider something else is if there's a hazard in the line you intend to play. A mound or contour is not a hazard. You're far better going over mounds and even "banking" shots off mounds/contours than trying to lift the ball over them to create a straighter shot. In 6 rounds there last year, aside from shots from a bunker, I think I might have hit 3 shots total around the greens with something other than a putter...and even that may be overestimating.

There was one guy in our group last year that didn't commit right away to using his putter from off the green. He had far more difficulty around the greens than any of the rest of us.

It could just be me - but I just don't see any importance to the differences in wedges that I bring to Bandon. I have my wedges to cover gaps in distances from greens, I have my putter when I'm near the green, and I have unrealistic expectations to get me through those shots where I need to lift the ball close to the green.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

Chris_NH nails it perfectly.

I have only one thing to add. If you can't hit decent bunker shots with the wedges you own currently then either get to work on your bunker game or you're totally screwed at Bandon. Buying different wedges isn't going to buy you the ability to get the ball out of a bunker.

Bandon is not the place to go if you're going to be leaving the ball in bunkers. But I've found even three or four 20-30 minute sessions in a practice bunker works miracles, assuming you understand the basic technique. The particular wedge and its bounce only matters to good wedges players.

[Chris_NH]

One more thing on this topic. If you're like me, these shots played around the greens with your putter - on the ground, through swales, over humps, through contours - are going to be unlike anything else you play anywhere else...and they're going to be the highlight of your trip. Without a doubt, these are the most enjoyable shots in my memory bank from my trip.

So go and fully embrace the style of play. You're at Bandon freaking Dunes :-)

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

I've not been to Bandon but on my visits to the UK the experience Chris_NH describes is exactly the reason I'm there. Half a dozen times every round (or more!) I'm standing there picturing a shot that a) I would almost never NEED at home and b) wouldn't WORK if I tried it at home. It's like every couple of holes you get to do something that normally you'd be going on and on about over drinks after the round, back home.

"Wow you should have seen the shot I had to hit on 14, it had to land right by the bunker then kick left all the way to the left side of the green and break around to the hole".

That's the kind of thing you want to be thinking about when anticipating a Bandon trip. And when playing there. And when remembering it later. Don't get caught up in thinking about "My Bandon wedges I'm gonna get just for the trip". It turns a very special experience into just another club-ho'ing exercise. You can do that the other 51 weeks of the year without leaving home.

[Whackit]

Agreed to both Chris_NH and Fourmyle. Not ho'ing, just fun!

Fourmyle - you are spot on about practice! I jumped in the sand practice area the other day for the first time in... years? and it helped a ton! Just working through the rust. Realizing what I was doing wrong and practicing successful outs. Very helpful. I plan to work in a number of practice sessions before heading up to BD.

As for putting... agreed. I only wish I could find a place to practice 100-foot putts on tight fairways. I guess I'll spend an hour doing that up at BD once I arrive. Old Mac is a putting adventure to say the least: where else do you "hope" for a 3-putt!

[wdm50]

[quote name='Whackit' timestamp='1391803625' post='8618067']
Agreed to both Chris_NH and Fourmyle. Not ho'ing, just fun!

Fourmyle - you are spot on about practice! I jumped in the sand practice area the other day for the first time in... years? and it helped a ton! Just working through the rust. Realizing what I was doing wrong and practicing successful outs. Very helpful. I plan to work in a number of practice sessions before heading up to BD.

As for putting... agreed. I only wish I could find a place to practice 100-foot putts on tight fairways. I guess I'll spend an hour doing that up at BD once I arrive. Old Mac is a putting adventure to say the least: where else do you "hope" for a 3-putt!
[/quote]Whackit, as far as the bunker play you need to watch the Golf Channel special with Chamblee and Azinger it will help you understand the sand game a lot more which helps in the big picture of sand play, I wish they would have more of these kind of shows on TGC. I went to Bandon and did not take the advice of some of the best player's advice, you can bet the next time I go the 4 wood will come out of my bag and I will have 2 putters, my regular and then one about 42 to 45 " long and bend to 8 Degree, it will work, I putted all over that place from 60 yards at times, what a blast , you really have to use your imagination there, especially if the wind blows. The deal is this, they actually only cut the greens once a week and the fairways twice a month, fescue is a grass that loves cold weather and the fairways and greens are all the same from what I understand, the old 58 -64 lob wedge is almost impossible because of how hard the ground is, my feet were about to fall off after 36 two days in a row. Hope your trip is great !!! The golf will be. PS Read the book called DREAM GOLF before you go it will put a whole different spin on your trip and make you really appreciate how special Bandon really is. So, 8 degree putter and DREAM GOLF, you will not have to worry about sleep, believe me.

[EdL]

[quote name='Chris_NH' timestamp='1391514774' post='8595398']
This seems to be a popular topic for people about to visit Bandon. I'm sure it varies for each person, but IMO it doesn't matter.

At Bandon you have to have a different mindset. Your first/default option anywhere within 15-20 yards of the green (or more) should be to pull your putter. The only reason you should consider something else is if there's a hazard in the line you intend to play. A mound or contour is not a hazard. You're far better going over mounds and even "banking" shots off mounds/contours than trying to lift the ball over them to create a straighter shot. In 6 rounds there last year, aside from shots from a bunker, I think I might have hit 3 shots total around the greens with something other than a putter...and even that may be overestimating.

There was one guy in our group last year that didn't commit right away to using his putter from off the green. He had far more difficulty around the greens than any of the rest of us.

It could just be me - but I just don't see any importance to the differences in wedges that I bring to Bandon. I have my wedges to cover gaps in distances from greens, I have my putter when I'm near the green, and I have unrealistic expectations to get me through those shots where I need to lift the ball close to the green.
[/quote]

I would agree with Chris_NH in regards to wedges. Other than bunkers, you're likely only going to need your SW or LW for full shots. My recommendation is to go to the practice area at Bandon as soon as you set foot on the property. Get used to hitting full shots of the firm turf, practice those 100ft putts and head down to the pitching/sand area. Setup about 50 yards out and try hitting shots with different clubs to get the feel of trajectory/run into the green. Another very handy shot to have at Bandon is the hybrid or Fairway wood from off the green. Practice that after the 100ft putts. Sure, you can use your putter from 30 yds off the green, but using the hybrid or fwy wd requires a shorter swing than the putter and the clubhead is much more forgiving than the putterhead.

[Whackit]

Rookie - thanks for the advice! Golf Channel Sand Show, Dream Golf, and putter alternatives/additions. I love "prepping" for Bandon, as it makes it only better. (But it's always deflating when you have to leave, like leaving Disneyland when you're a kid!) You are making me think hard about flipping out a wood for a 17* hybrid I have - but rarely use - just for the long putting option.

[wdm50]

I[quote name='Whackit' timestamp='1392831014' post='8702403']
Rookie - thanks for the advice! Golf Channel Sand Show, Dream Golf, and putter alternatives/additions. I love "prepping" for Bandon, as it makes it only better. (But it's always deflating when you have to leave, like leaving Disneyland when you're a kid!) You are making me think hard about flipping out a wood for a 17* hybrid I have - but rarely use - just for the long putting option.
[/quote]I was very surprised how easy I was able to putt from 200 feet off the green and I had been warned by people who had been there, I read a article about a guy who I think was one of the architects at Bandon and he had bent a putter to 7 degree's and said it was amazing how well it worked. I like in the Panhandle of Florida so wedge play is a big deal here, but there, it was a whole different world, I was shocked.