DJ Watts' Swing Principles/Philosophy

[ej002]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1397748130' post='9111707']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1397747651' post='9111653']
So it means more than one thing? Sorry, I have only seen this reference on this forum. Thanks HitEmTrue
[/quote]

Goat hump refers to early extension which would cause one to lose their tush line when viewing the swing from DTL.
[/quote]

We can ask Slice who invented the term, but I think it also was said in the context of the hips stalling and backing out to shallow. Nicklaus might lose the line a bit, but he is not stallin' and slingin' like Slice would say, nor is he backing out.

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1397748271' post='9111727']
I don't see it here, maybe in a few bad swings there is a hint:

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ocMJecgW2w[/media]


But compare to this guy who's diggin in there deep... baaahhhhhhaaaa


[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cdtWmJY5YA[/media]
[/quote]

I have to tell you ej002, now I'm dying to see your golf swing, if you think Vijay Singh's swing has something terribly wrong with it. Do you have a clip you could post here for comparison with Vijay? That would be great, thanks.

And anyone else who would say that about Vijay, I imagine I will gain some insight!

Best,

DJ

[eightiron]

[quote name='Craig foster' timestamp='1397734722' post='9110349']
Mr 8 iron .. I retaliate your comment to DJ with the infamous wrx "redline" with my niblick mashie I picked up at a local auction last week . Those funny redines / arrows / blue lines are useless when it comes to really playing scoring golf . Your post made me laugh so loud that I spilled some of my morning latte on my new jogging suit . Now I have to change so I can take my pug trixie out for her daily morning jaunt thru the park

Amusing ! The fabled red line of wrx..

Regards Craig Foster III
[/quote]

Hmm not sure about red / blue lines but for sure the good ole white lines are getting used often around here

[ej002]

I am sure you like VJ's swing you guys have the same early extension / backout move.

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1397748326' post='9111737']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1397748285' post='9111731']
I see, bph - and what is the result of this particular move? Less power? Less accuracy?
[/quote]

Both of those...and a pregnant goat.
[/quote]

lol tembolo. Considering Vijay Singh is the most prolific winner on the Tour after 40, and was one of the longer hitters even into his mid-40's, I don't believe that makes much sense. And if Jack Nicklaus, who was the longest player and straightest in his day, did it at times, I won't worry about whether I do it or not.

I just had no clue what the term referred to, but if Vijay did it or does it, maybe more people should think about it.

Best,

DJ

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1397748863' post='9111825']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1397748326' post='9111737']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1397748285' post='9111731']
I see, bph - and what is the result of this particular move? Less power? Less accuracy?
[/quote]

Both of those...and a pregnant goat.
[/quote]

lol tembolo. Considering Vijay Singh is the most prolific winner on the Tour after 40, and was one of the longer hitters even into his mid-40's, I don't believe that makes much sense. And if Jack Nicklaus, who was the longest player and straightest in his day, did it at times, I won't worry about whether I do it or not.

I just had no clue what the term referred to, but if Vijay did it or does it, maybe more people should think about it.

Best,

DJ
[/quote]

As you say...if someone has something they do because it fits them because of whatever issues they may have with their body...then they should stick with it.

[bph7]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1397748285' post='9111731']
I see, bph - and what is the result of this particular move? Less power? Less accuracy?
[/quote]

All kinds of bad stuff. High hands at impact, pivot stalling, likely a flippy/slingy release. Its usually the result of getting too steep early in the downswing, then your body early extends to help you shallow out and get to the ball. Not a good move at all.

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1397748773' post='9111803']
I am sure you like VJ's swing you guys have the same early extension / backout move.
[/quote]

Thank you, ej002- that's the best compliment on my swing that I've received here!

Best,

DJ

[ej002]

I am sorry, but that wasn't a compliment, but carry on!

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1397748981' post='9111845']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1397748285' post='9111731']
I see, bph - and what is the result of this particular move? Less power? Less accuracy?
[/quote]

All kinds of bad stuff. High hands at impact, pivot stalling, likely a flippy/slingy release. Its usually the result of getting too steep early in the downswing, then your body early extends to help you shallow out and get to the ball. Not a good move at all.
[/quote]

Yeah, that's bad stuff. Which of those things does Vijay have an issue with? This is strange, because I apparently have this move, and I don't have high hands at impact, a pivot stall or a flippy release. Or are you just talking generically about possible outcomes?

Best,

DJ

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1397749125' post='9111873']
I am sorry, but that wasn't a compliment, but carry on!
[/quote]

Still waiting on that swing clip, ej002 - can you show us how it's done right?

Best,

DJ

[BobbieDollar]

for real goat humping look no further than Joe Miller long drive champ on impact. He's up on his toes thrusting his hips forward like he's trying to mount a beast that's 17 hands high. He's actually trying to clear his club at highspeed impact and hit up on the ball. That said he might look better doing that in a Tutu. This is most definitely not what Nicklaus ever did.

Yes my last post on swing preachers was a tad histrionic. My point is that 'teaching' is a big industry now and its been institutionalized and is over run with group think, absolutes and quite a bit of noncritical thinking. When i see a Tour range before a tourney littered with Swing Vampires hanging over their 'students' the irony does not escape me. You just couldn't imagine this in any other sport. And the most popular Vampires are raking in unimaginable amounts of money and buying 2nd and 3rd homes with the coin. The public sees this and wants in. They can feel the ground tremble as the herd around them stampede toward the Vampires. And please do not tell me that a 20 handi needs a Trackman fitting for his new clubs. Please. Its useless. Its infatuation with high tech mumbo jumbo. Its reaching around and heisting the idiot's wallet. You have mega-stores creating false needs to move millions of golf products to an aging herd of baby boomers who would be far,far better served lifting free weights in a gym 4 times a week so that they can look down and find their lost members again.

[bph7]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1397749152' post='9111877']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1397748981' post='9111845']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1397748285' post='9111731']
I see, bph - and what is the result of this particular move? Less power? Less accuracy?
[/quote]

All kinds of bad stuff. High hands at impact, pivot stalling, likely a flippy/slingy release. Its usually the result of getting too steep early in the downswing, then your body early extends to help you shallow out and get to the ball. Not a good move at all.
[/quote]

Yeah, that's bad stuff. Which of those things does Vijay have an issue with? This is strange, because I apparently have this move, and I don't have high hands at impact, a pivot stall or a flippy release. Or are you just talking generically about possible outcomes?

Best,

DJ
[/quote]

I was just defining the term generically. I wasn't making a comment about whether you or Vijay or anyone does it.

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1397749320' post='9111903']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1397749152' post='9111877']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1397748981' post='9111845']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1397748285' post='9111731']
I see, bph - and what is the result of this particular move? Less power? Less accuracy?
[/quote]

All kinds of bad stuff. High hands at impact, pivot stalling, likely a flippy/slingy release. Its usually the result of getting too steep early in the downswing, then your body early extends to help you shallow out and get to the ball. Not a good move at all.
[/quote]

Yeah, that's bad stuff. Which of those things does Vijay have an issue with? This is strange, because I apparently have this move, and I don't have high hands at impact, a pivot stall or a flippy release. Or are you just talking generically about possible outcomes?

Best,

DJ
[/quote]

I was just defining the term generically. I wasn't making a comment about whether you or Vijay or anyone does it.
[/quote]

OK thanks for the info bph7 and others - I don't think the term or what it implies is anything I'll worry about. Very interesting though.

Best,

DJ

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='BobbieDollar' timestamp='1397749228' post='9111887']
for real goat humping look no further than Joe Miller long drive champ on impact. He's up on his toes thrusting his hips forward like he's trying to mount a beast that's 17 hands high. He's actually trying to clear his club at highspeed impact and hit up on the ball. That said he might look better doing that in a Tutu. This is most definitely not what Nicklaus ever did.

Yes my last post on swing preachers was a tad histrionic. My point is that 'teaching' is a big industry now and its been institutionalized and is over run with group think, absolutes and quite a bit of noncritical thinking. When i see a Tour range before a tourney littered with Swing Vampires hanging over their 'students' the irony does not escape me. You just couldn't imagine this in any other sport. And the most popular Vampires are raking in unimaginable amounts of money and buying 2nd and 3rd homes with the coin. The public sees this and wants in. They can feel the ground tremble as the herd around them stampede toward the Vampires. And please do not tell me that a 20 handi needs a Trackman fitting for his new clubs. Please. Its useless. Its infatuation with high tech mumbo jumbo. Its reaching around and heisting the idiot's wallet. You have mega-stores creating false needs to move millions of golf products to an aging herd of baby boomers who would be far,far better served lifting free weights in a gym 4 times a week so that they can look down and find their lost members again.
[/quote]

Hi BobbieDollar -

If I had distance problems, I'd look to increase my[i] leverage[/i], and not my muscle size. Proper leveraging will increase distance in ways that muscle-building would take so much longer, so much more effort and risk injury from over-training. I'm sure some people love to do it that way, but with leverage, I can enjoy my beer & wings. I just don't look too svelte in a fitted shirt, so I avoid those...

[ej002]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1397749179' post='9111881']

Still waiting on that swing clip, ej002 - can you show us how it's done right?

Best,

DJ
[/quote]

here have at it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIKQYrqcGqQ

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1397750128' post='9112021']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1397749179' post='9111881']
Still waiting on that swing clip, ej002 - can you show us how it's done right?

Best,

DJ
[/quote]

here have at it:
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIKQYrqcGqQ[/media]
[/quote]

That's pretty nice, ej002. I wouldn't say it's any better than Vijay's swing however. I do hope your lower back withstands that follow-through action. I personally couldn't swing that way with my scoliosis, I'd be in traction after a few swings.

So perhaps different strokes for different folks?

Best,

DJ

PS - And I'm not being sarcastic about your swing. Just not for someone like me. I don't like that whole "swing inside" business, I prefer to swing to the opposite field, but then I have a back condition that makes me swing left more than I would ever like.

[virtuoso]

[quote name='BobbieDollar' timestamp='1397749228' post='9111887'] for real goat humping look no further than Joe Miller long drive champ on impact. He's up on his toes thrusting his hips forward like he's trying to mount a beast that's 17 hands high. He's actually trying to clear his club at highspeed impact and hit up on the ball. That said he might look better doing that in a Tutu. This is most definitely not what Nicklaus ever did. Yes my last post on swing preachers was a tad histrionic. My point is that 'teaching' is a big industry now and its been institutionalized and is over run with group think, absolutes and quite a bit of noncritical thinking. When i see a Tour range before a tourney littered with Swing Vampires hanging over their 'students' the irony does not escape me. You just couldn't imagine this in any other sport. And the most popular Vampires are raking in unimaginable amounts of money and buying 2nd and 3rd homes with the coin. The public sees this and wants in. They can feel the ground tremble as the herd around them stampede toward the Vampires. And please do not tell me that a 20 handi needs a Trackman fitting for his new clubs. Please. Its useless. Its infatuation with high tech mumbo jumbo. Its reaching around and heisting the idiot's wallet. You have mega-stores creating false needs to move millions of golf products to an aging herd of baby boomers who would be far,far better served lifting free weights in a gym 4 times a week so that they can look down and find their lost members again. [/quote]

Are you a golf instructor that has used trackman? I am and I use trackman everyday......and I find that it can be helpful for my scratch guys and my choppers.

Are the clubhead delivery numbers perfect? No, but if you track hit location and understand how the radar is capturing the head, you will do fine.

[eightiron]

Round the traps the goat humping is called

Unfolding deck chair swing

[virtuoso]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1397750128' post='9112021'] [quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1397749179' post='9111881'] Still waiting on that swing clip, ej002 - can you show us how it's done right? Best, DJ [/quote] here have at it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIKQYrqcGqQ [/quote]

Wow, you got some Hogan-y stuff in there. Very nice.

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1397750723' post='9112123']
Round the traps the goat humping is called

Unfolding deck chair swing
[/quote]

Thanks eightiron - learn something every day, I do!

Best,

DJ

[Craig foster]

No great teachers " live " by trackman. Ball flight is the best way to teach . Those electronic gimmicks will be extinct in 10 years and all teachers will go back to the divot and ball flight

Speaking my piece if the pie

Craig Foster III

[ej002]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1397750499' post='9112093']

That's pretty nice, ej002. I wouldn't say it's any better than Vijay's swing however. I do hope your lower back withstands that follow-through action. I personally couldn't swing that way with my scoliosis, I'd be in traction after a few swings.

So perhaps different strokes for different folks?

Best,

DJ

PS - And I'm not being sarcastic about your swing. Just not for someone like me. I don't like that whole "swing inside" business, I prefer to swing to the opposite field, but then I have a back condition that makes me swing left more than I would ever like.
[/quote]

No worries - and I agree to an extent that it is really pulling to far right there. A bit spinny and draggy - I think it was result of trying to hold off hit it under the blustery conditions that day. But thanks.

[eightiron]

[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1397750990' post='9112163']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1397750128' post='9112021'] [quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1397749179' post='9111881'] Still waiting on that swing clip, ej002 - can you show us how it's done right? Best, DJ [/quote] here have at it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIKQYrqcGqQ [/quote]

Wow, you got some Hogan-y stuff in there. Very nice.
[/quote]

Turned to the dark side has EJ , been seeing some Vader guy , he's just beginning and looks good already !

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1397751482' post='9112241']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1397750499' post='9112093']
That's pretty nice, ej002. I wouldn't say it's any better than Vijay's swing however. I do hope your lower back withstands that follow-through action. I personally couldn't swing that way with my scoliosis, I'd be in traction after a few swings.

So perhaps different strokes for different folks?

Best,

DJ

PS - And I'm not being sarcastic about your swing. Just not for someone like me. I don't like that whole "swing inside" business, I prefer to swing to the opposite field, but then I have a back condition that makes me swing left more than I would ever like.
[/quote]

No worries - and I agree to an extent that it is really pulling to far right there. A bit spinny and draggy - I think it was result of trying to hold off hit it under the blustery conditions that day. But thanks.
[/quote]

Hey, thank you for posting that clip. I have the highest respect for people who put in the work to build a decent swing, and like I said, I like yours even if I wouldn't swing that way. I'd be posting that swing everywhere, seriously.

I swing the exact opposite of you. Everything I do in my stance and down swing is to prevent the OTT and hard-inside path that my spine causes standing square or swinging "down the line." I have had days where I hit the ball dead straight, I mean pin-knocking, and my divot still went hard left. That's some hand-eye coordination working there, but I'd get the sideways pull-hooks which would kill my round and send me stomping back to the range.

Now, when I swing out, my divots are at least straight-ish. I can even hit draws now without worrying about the double-cross. The more I think "out" when I swing, the more draw I'll get, but not a whole lot. I'm built to pull-fade, and just want to hit it straight!

Thanks for sharing.

Best,

DJ

[eightiron]

[quote name='Craig foster' timestamp='1397751375' post='9112225']
No great teachers " live " by trackman. Ball flight is the best way to teach . Those electronic gimmicks will be extinct in 10 years and all teachers will go back to the divot and ball flight

Speaking my piece if the pie

Craig Foster III
[/quote]

Lmfao and their red and blue lines are out of calibration

[mfm22]

Thanks DJ , I've enjoyed the post & replies . I commend you on your restraint.
What I have taken from this is what I have come to realize over the last few years of my own "research" - That being it is better to find my own swing Than try to copy some pros swing. I have kept track of "my " Swing keys . And some are commonly accepted
Like a flat left wrist through impact etc... Things
that work not just look pretty .
Sure I'd love to swing like Adam Scott or Justin Rose but at 59 yrs old , 3 herniated discs , 2 bad knees , shoulder issues & a partidge in a pear tree, it ain't happening.
I think a guy like Bubba Watson winning without a classic swing gives hope to those that want to play well with what works for them .
Goathumping ...I think I saw that term from SF a while ago & realized that I have done that .. But look if it works for you and you can't find a better way it's better than not playing ...right?
I can say this with some experience, Finding a good instructor is very difficult . Most have a "method" [some don't even realize] alot want to teach the same positions to all students . Very few if any stress the golf swing from" impact ".

[lee36328]

[quote name='BobbieDollar' timestamp='1397749228' post='9111887']
for real goat humping look no further than Joe Miller long drive champ on impact. He's up on his toes thrusting his hips forward like he's trying to mount a beast that's 17 hands high. He's actually trying to clear his club at highspeed impact and hit up on the ball. That said he might look better doing that in a Tutu. This is most definitely not what Nicklaus ever did.

Yes my last post on swing preachers was a tad histrionic. My point is that 'teaching' is a big industry now and its been institutionalized and is over run with group think, absolutes and quite a bit of noncritical thinking. When i see a Tour range before a tourney littered with Swing Vampires hanging over their 'students' the irony does not escape me. You just couldn't imagine this in any other sport. And the most popular Vampires are raking in unimaginable amounts of money and buying 2nd and 3rd homes with the coin. The public sees this and wants in. They can feel the ground tremble as the herd around them stampede toward the Vampires. And please do not tell me that a 20 handi needs a Trackman fitting for his new clubs. Please. Its useless. Its infatuation with high tech mumbo jumbo. Its reaching around and heisting the idiot's wallet. You have mega-stores creating false needs to move millions of golf products to an aging herd of baby boomers who would be far,far better served lifting free weights in a gym 4 times a week so that they can look down and find their lost members again.
[/quote]

Sir, you have a way with words. This is another classic.

Swing Vampires, LOL. With your permission, I think I might use this in the future.

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='mfm22' timestamp='1397752181' post='9112341']
Thanks DJ , I've enjoyed the post & replies . I commend you on your restraint.
What I have taken from this is what I have come to realize over the last few years of my own "research" - That being it is better to find my own swing Than try to copy some pros swing. I have kept track of "my " Swing keys . And some are commonly accepted
Like a flat left wrist through impact etc... Things
that work not just look pretty .
Sure I'd love to swing like Adam Scott or Justin Rose but at 59 yrs old , 3 herniated discs , 2 bad knees , shoulder issues & a partidge in a pear tree, it ain't happening.
I think a guy like Bubba Watson winning without a classic swing gives hope to those that want to play well with what works for them .
Goathumping ...I think I saw that term from SF a while ago & realized that I have done that .. But look if it works for you and you can't find a better way it's better than not playing ...right?
I can say this with some experience, Finding a good instructor is very difficult . Most have a "method" [some don't even realize] alot want to teach the same positions to all students . Very few if any stress the golf swing from" impact ".
[/quote]

Hi mfm22, and thanks for dropping in!

I agree with your working from impact - I did that myself. I found my optimal impact position and then worked out the stance and action that would take me to the top without having to make compensations of any kind, then back down to impact. A little humor - I kept winding up in a position that necessitated my having a right foot position back from the line, like [i]4-6"[/i], and I kept saying [i]"[b]That's[/b] not right..."[/i]

For [i]years[/i], I fought my scoliosis and tried to swing from square, until I realized that it just wasn't going to happen.

Gradually, things began to take shape - standing more erect freed my hips and so on.

[b][i]Bubba Watson? [/i][/b] Love that swing. I will love the swing of anyone who doesn't live in the gym and who can hit it like that. Bubba loong, indeed.

At the end of the day, I simply return to the principles that work for me, making them[i] "my"[/i] principles in that sense, not in the sense that I've invented them. So much easier than trying to find a model to imitate or replicate. We're all different, chances are we'll all swing differently in one way or another.

Best,

DJ

PS - I've said before that Adam Scott and Oostie have the best conventional golf swings you could find, but you'd better be made of rubber or have all day to work on that move, and you'll still risk injury. Oostie promptly went down a while after I said that.

If you can swing like them, great. Chances are, very few people can. Especially those who can't work on the swing every day, for hours.

[ej002]

Lol - Joe Mayo said even center strikes have gear affect, so I am not sure what trackman is really telling anyone other than recording the flight. Maybe with a pro who has pin needle repeat-ability on impact conditions, he can determine a pattern, even then I would suppose there are outliers.. For your average hack who its it all over the face, forget it. Waste of time.