DJ Watts' Swing Principles/Philosophy

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1398197969' post='9145927']
That's as good as I could get after hours of repeating the down swing move [size=5][b]with emphasis on the hip action to the start the down swing.[/b][/size]
[/quote]

Since youre in the discovery phase I would like you to know this is why you get steep. It will make your discovery phase easier since I told you most of the issues. I cant tell you anything else though. Then you wouldnt get to have much of a discovery phase.

Best,

Ping

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1398292993' post='9155355']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1398197969' post='9145927']
That's as good as I could get after hours of repeating the down swing move [size=5][b]with emphasis on the hip action to the start the down swing.[/b][/size]
[/quote]

Since youre in the discovery phase I would like you to know this is why you get steep. It will make your discovery phase easier since I told you most of the issues. I cant tell you anything else though. Then you wouldnt get to have much of a discovery phase.

Best,

Ping
[/quote]

Hello PingG10guy,

That's likely something we'll end up disagreeing upon, to be honest. I have only had one complaint with my swing all these years, and that was the steep descent and hard left after impact.

You can have all the hip and leg action you want on the correct down swing angle, as no one I've worked with has that problem swinging the way I suggest. I'm a power swinger, always will be, and you can't swing with power without the legs and hips. At least, not without risking serious issues.

I've swung out of my shoes for nearly nine years on this journey, always from the ground up, and never had any physical issues. I'd edit that comment to read "with emphasis on the [i]leg and[/i] hip action."

If I can free up that lower back to get the flex I need, I'm suddenly seeing hope. I've tried everything [i]except[/i] working through the pain [i](overly cautious)[/i]. This time, I'm persevering.

Still, I appreciate your comments. I got as shallow(er) hitting balls today as I had gotten it Monday but with nowhere near as much soreness in the lower left.

Best,

DJ

[PingG10guy]

No worries...enjoy your journey

Best,

Ping

[thegooddoctor]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1398197969' post='9145927']
Good afternoon, friends,

I've put together a comparison showing how, after Fort Worth Pro's comments on his own student with scoliosis, I decided to try again to see if my lower back and hips would free up to allow me to swing on a shallower angle to the ball.

As I commented yesterday, it appears it's not a [i]permanent[/i] thing but just an immobility caused likely by my never having had to perform that particular action before taking up golf in my 20's, and a fear of exceeding what I could do which made me stop when soreness would set in.

[attachment=2187241:dj steep & flatter.jpg]

But there it is. That's as good as I could get after hours of repeating the down swing move with emphasis on the hip action to the start the down swing. Not a huge difference, but when the soreness lessens a little [i](it rained today and gave me a nice day off to rest the back)[/i], I'll be in a position I never thought I personally could achieve.

Same swing, better angle. I'll take it. Over time, I predict my back will loosen sufficiently to get a nice shallow attack angle to the ball. For the transition from swing research to playing - priceless.

This also allows me to personally model the down swing move more effectively for the people I work with, so a hearty[b][i] "Thank You"[/i][/b] to [u][i][b]Fort Worth Pro[/b][/i][/u] for his persistence in telling me that he had a student with scoliosis who was younger than I when he began golf and was able to get a shallow angle despite the back condition.

Best,

DJ
[/quote]

DJ glad to see Im not the only one who struggles with this game! I quick comment though, those pics are taken from 2 difference angles. The one on the right is more oblique towards face on thus the club appears flatter than it is and actually may not be as shallow as it appears. Keep at it

Evan

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='thegooddoctor' timestamp='1398298290' post='9155969']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1398197969' post='9145927']
Good afternoon, friends,

I've put together a comparison showing how, after Fort Worth Pro's comments on his own student with scoliosis, I decided to try again to see if my lower back and hips would free up to allow me to swing on a shallower angle to the ball.

As I commented yesterday, it appears it's not a [i]permanent[/i] thing but just an immobility caused likely by my never having had to perform that particular action before taking up golf in my 20's, and a fear of exceeding what I could do which made me stop when soreness would set in.

[attachment=2187241:dj steep & flatter.jpg]

But there it is. That's as good as I could get after hours of repeating the down swing move with emphasis on the hip action to the start the down swing. Not a huge difference, but when the soreness lessens a little [i](it rained today and gave me a nice day off to rest the back)[/i], I'll be in a position I never thought I personally could achieve.

Same swing, better angle. I'll take it. Over time, I predict my back will loosen sufficiently to get a nice shallow attack angle to the ball. For the transition from swing research to playing - priceless.

This also allows me to personally model the down swing move more effectively for the people I work with, so a hearty[b][i] "Thank You"[/i][/b] to [u][i][b]Fort Worth Pro[/b][/i][/u] for his persistence in telling me that he had a student with scoliosis who was younger than I when he began golf and was able to get a shallow angle despite the back condition.

Best,

DJ
[/quote]

DJ glad to see Im not the only one who struggles with this game! I quick comment though, those pics are taken from 2 difference angles. The one on the right is more oblique towards face on thus the club appears flatter than it is and actually may not be as shallow as it appears. Keep at it

Evan
[/quote]

Hi thegooddoctor,

Yes, keeping at it, but I'm not too concerned with how it turns out. No two swings look alike, and my swing certainly doesn't and won't ever look like anyone else, but I would just repeat that whatever one's swing looks like, if one wants to improve, following basic principles [i](make your own or look at the ones I use) [/i]will yield results.

I'm pretty good-natured, so I don't mind much when others critique my own swing, considering I have lots to say on the swing. At the end of the day, if that ball is going straight and you can hit it long[i] (and I hit it pretty long and straight as it is even with my steep down swing)[/i],[i] [b]the scorecard will not complain[/b][/i][b].[/b]

Best,

DJ

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1398382169' post='9164271']
Yes, keeping at it, but I'm not too concerned with how it turns out. [size=6][b]No two swings look alike[/b][/size], and my swing certainly doesn't and won't ever look like anyone else, but I would just repeat that whatever one's swing looks like, if one wants to improve, following basic principles [i](make your own or look at the ones I use) [/i]will yield results.

I'm pretty good-natured, so I don't mind much when others critique my own swing, considering I have lots to say on the swing. At the end of the day, if that ball is going straight and you can hit it long[i] (and I hit it pretty long and straight as it is even with my steep down swing)[/i],[i] [b]the scorecard will not complain[/b][/i][b].[/b]

Best,

DJ
[/quote]

I beg to differ...if you have a consistent setup position then i think you would be surprised at the consistency of your swing. The variation comes when you have a cluster of compensations and a high rate of clubface closure at the bottom. P1-P5 will be fairly consistent if the intent in shotshape/setup is the same.

[limcauco]

[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1398117421' post='9139179']
I think you can avoid some steepening rather than trying to shallow.

IMO you should stop here
[attachment=2185869:image.jpg]

Instead you go all the way here (prob remnants of the long drive days)
[attachment=2185871:image.jpg]

Then you pull the handle early and enter steep city
[attachment=2185873:image.jpg]

From there you need a serious move to shallow. Prob half the reason the back is sore. Not knocking you, just MHO.
[/quote]

I have same issues more or less as DJ. I shortened my backswing, but still steepening. I got the shoulders steeper in backswing, i still got steep in downswing. I used my hips to transition, you guessed it, steep.

You know the only thing that worked for me? It's the right hand action in BS until the top. It's a combo of bend and rotation.

Any others that tried this? JP?

[QMany]

EDIT: Wrong thread, sorry.

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1398390136' post='9165305']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1398382169' post='9164271']
Yes, keeping at it, but I'm not too concerned with how it turns out. [size=6][b]No two swings look alike[/b][/size], and my swing certainly doesn't and won't ever look like anyone else, but I would just repeat that whatever one's swing looks like, if one wants to improve, following basic principles [i](make your own or look at the ones I use) [/i]will yield results.

I'm pretty good-natured, so I don't mind much when others critique my own swing, considering I have lots to say on the swing. At the end of the day, if that ball is going straight and you can hit it long[i] (and I hit it pretty long and straight as it is even with my steep down swing)[/i],[i] [b]the scorecard will not complain[/b][/i][b].[/b]

Best,

DJ
[/quote]

I beg to differ...if you have a consistent setup position then i think you would be surprised at the consistency of your swing. The variation comes when you have a cluster of compensations and a high rate of clubface closure at the bottom. P1-P5 will be fairly consistent if the intent in shotshape/setup is the same.
[/quote]

PingG10guy good morning

That's what I think actually, if I understand you correctly - I believe in building a solid address position and knowing it inside out for hitting consistent shots. It's about the swing, the impact, and repeating it. Above all, my mantra is to avoid risking injury. I have found that while the steepness of my down swing is considered the Scarlet Letter on this forum, there is a world of people who don't care about something like that.

What I've also found the past few days while playing the actual course is that it was not ever likely just having a steep downswing that has caused my loose shots in the past - it was the lack of being in a proper address position[i] (the course will distract one like that, and by design)[/i] and of course a steep down swing would magnify the address position flaw.

Part of the reason I've decided to play some competitive golf is actually a "proving" motivation. I want to prove that you don't have to have a "perfect" swing, or rather a perfect-"looking" swing, as that would have taken out a good portion of some of the best players ever. If one can swing along the lines of a sound mechanical action, then one is in good stead, however one looks.

Best,

DJ

[Darth Leverage]

Hi DJ, I see you are working on a shallower move in your swing now. Changes aren't easy I wish you the best of luck and better ball striking!

I was just curious if you have ever considered getting screened by TPI etc with relation to what your disability will and will not allow you to do within your golf swing?

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='MadForeIt' timestamp='1398430758' post='9167687']
Hi DJ, I see you are working on a shallower move in your swing now. Changes aren't easy I wish you the best of luck and better ball striking!

I was just curious if you have ever considered getting screened by TPI etc with relation to what your disability will and will not allow you to do within your golf swing?
[/quote]

Hi Madforelt,

The following two paragraphs or three are to you personally, and the rest is a general comment of sorts and is not a rant direct towards you:

I've been in sports all my life, and have always figured out a way. I was actually stunned when I realized that my scoliosis was the cause of my swing issues, because it had never been a factor in any other game or sport. Once I thought about and looked into it, it was an inescapable fact.

Granted, a baseball swing encompasses an entire field of play and has no flat face, so I played and swung very well in that regard. Basketball? Nope. Track & field? Not that I knew of. Hockey? Nothing there either. But I took up all of those sports as well as a young and very flexible athlete.

I have only faced the facts of this since this past February, so I'm still tinkering with my personal address and action. Frankly, [i]I love the challenge[/i].

Due to my background in other sports, I firmly believe [i](not having ever even looked at a golf club until my mid-20's)[/i] that the golf swing has been made to be too complicated, too convoluted.

And inconsistent. If someone says[i] "I have a great swing,"[/i] the response will be[i] "you can't win just having a great swing, look at all the great swingers who can't make it..."[/i] On the other hand, you show people an effective and powerful swing, and commandos drop from the ceilings to point out every flaw, real and imagined.

Golf and swinging are about confidence. If you build a solid swing and have confidence in it, you will play solid golf.

Bruce Lietzke would get a rough ride on this forum, and who on this forum could do what he did on Tour?

For the overwhelming majority of people who play golf and will never do it for employment, shouldn't it just be fun? I have a blast hitting balls and playing golf, and I only worry about my swing when something is off.

A solid, simple, easy to maintain swing will give 99% of people who play golf what they need.

Best,

DJ

[thegooddoctor]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1398429104' post='9167493']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1398390136' post='9165305']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1398382169' post='9164271']
Yes, keeping at it, but I'm not too concerned with how it turns out. [size=6][b]No two swings look alike[/b][/size], and my swing certainly doesn't and won't ever look like anyone else, but I would just repeat that whatever one's swing looks like, if one wants to improve, following basic principles [i](make your own or look at the ones I use) [/i]will yield results.

I'm pretty good-natured, so I don't mind much when others critique my own swing, considering I have lots to say on the swing. At the end of the day, if that ball is going straight and you can hit it long[i] (and I hit it pretty long and straight as it is even with my steep down swing)[/i],[i] [b]the scorecard will not complain[/b][/i][b].[/b]

Best,

DJ
[/quote]

I beg to differ...if you have a consistent setup position then i think you would be surprised at the consistency of your swing. The variation comes when you have a cluster of compensations and a high rate of clubface closure at the bottom. P1-P5 will be fairly consistent if the intent in shotshape/setup is the same.
[/quote]

PingG10guy good morning

That's what I think actually, if I understand you correctly - I believe in building a solid address position and knowing it inside out for hitting consistent shots. It's about the swing, the impact, and repeating it. Above all, my mantra is to avoid risking injury. I have found that while the steepness of my down swing is considered the Scarlet Letter on this forum, there is a world of people who don't care about something like that.

What I've also found the past few days while playing the actual course is that it was not ever likely just having a steep downswing that has caused my loose shots in the past - it was the lack of being in a proper address position[i] (the course will distract one like that, and by design)[/i] and of course a steep down swing would magnify the address position flaw.

Part of the reason I've decided to play some competitive golf is actually a "proving" motivation. I want to prove that you don't have to have a "perfect" swing, or rather a perfect-"looking" swing, as that would have taken out a good portion of some of the best players ever. If one can swing along the lines of a sound mechanical action, then one is in good stead, however one looks.

Best,

DJ
[/quote]
DJ,
There are a lot of ways to swing the club but what I found from watching people who hit the ball way better than I do is that closely before to to closely after contact the vast majority of great ballstrikers look very similar. Whether its' furyk or scott or watson or etc they get through the ball the nearly the same. I agree that how you get there is over emphasized (ie must swing on plane, must do this then that), but the truth of having a solid impact and peri-impact position is undeniable.

Right now your impact position does not fit the mold as described (very steep, loss of leg bend, early extension). You can swing within the confines of your physical ailments and still acheive a better impact position, and in fact a better turn will likely lesson the torque on your spine that the flexion and extension motion your swing currently overuses. Your spinal muscles likely bear more of your postural load due to the instability (not saying slipped discs, but more like a suspension bridge without the ideal angles) of your lower spine. Of course just like any muscle in the body a new movement needs time to become memory and time to build the muscle action required.
A plus that you hit the ball naturally long. Much harder to learn to hit it hard than straight.


I would not restrict your hip turn at all, but the arms are another story. Swinging the arms past parallel for you creates the steepness in your swing and is the reason that your back and hips must extend prematurely. If this action did not happen you would dig a huge trench with your club and hit the ground about 6 inches behind the ball. Because you have excellent hand eye coordination, your hands and body compensate at the cost of your back, ie I am saying your current swing is harder on your back than what a more classic swing (your definition from earlier posts) is. (ie large hip turn, front heel lifting in backswing, arms in sync with hips not overshooting them). The reason you haven't been able to slot the club in the past is not due to your spine but actually your hips which are occupying the space the arms would go to due to early extension.

I struggle with this move as well ( i am not a long hitter and my swing is not steep and relatively short(do not even get to parallel because Im too fat), my early extension occurs when I take the club back way too wide and my head drops down and into the ball on the way back essentially creating the same problem as a steep downswing and the need to stand up and away from the ball on the down swing. When my timing is good my ballstricking doesn't suffer, but when not I suffer.

[Hstead]

I agree with the gooddoctor 100%. The arm runoff is a huge contributing factor to the steepness and early extension. You might surprise yourself with the distance gain, accuracy gains, and less back stress by shortening the arm runoff quite a bit.

[lv_2_hack]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1398433544' post='9168039']
[quote name='MadForeIt' timestamp='1398430758' post='9167687']
Hi DJ, I see you are working on a shallower move in your swing now. Changes aren't easy I wish you the best of luck and better ball striking!

I was just curious if you have ever considered getting screened by TPI etc with relation to what your disability will and will not allow you to do within your golf swing?
[/quote]

Hi Madforelt,

The following two paragraphs or three are to you personally, and the rest is a general comment of sorts and is not a rant direct towards you:

I've been in sports all my life, and have always figured out a way. I was actually stunned when I realized that my scoliosis was the cause of my swing issues, because it had never been a factor in any other game or sport. Once I thought about and looked into it, it was an inescapable fact.

Granted, a baseball swing encompasses an entire field of play and has no flat face, so I played and swung very well in that regard. Basketball? Nope. Track & field? Not that I knew of. Hockey? Nothing there either. But I took up all of those sports as well as a young and very flexible athlete.

I have only faced the facts of this since this past February, so I'm still tinkering with my personal address and action. Frankly, [i]I love the challenge[/i].

Due to my background in other sports, I firmly believe [i](not having ever even looked at a golf club until my mid-20's)[/i] that the golf swing has been made to be too complicated, too convoluted.

And inconsistent. If someone says[i] "I have a great swing,"[/i] the response will be[i] "you can't win just having a great swing, look at all the great swingers who can't make it..."[/i] On the other hand, you show people an effective and powerful swing, and commandos drop from the ceilings to point out every flaw, real and imagined.

Golf and swinging are about confidence. If you build a solid swing and have confidence in it, you will play solid golf.

Bruce Lietzke would get a rough ride on this forum, and who on this forum could do what he did on Tour?

For the overwhelming majority of people who play golf and will never do it for employment, shouldn't it just be fun? I have a blast hitting balls and playing golf, and I only worry about my swing when something is off.

A solid, simple, easy to maintain swing will give 99% of people who play golf what they need.

Best,

DJ
[/quote]

Good post. The problem is the golf swing isn't near as simple as slinging a hockey puck or shooting a basketball.

I agree with Mad, but I'd recommend a different direction. I'd go see a FMS (functional movement specialist) certified PT and have him run you through their stuff. I have a small case of scoliosis as well and my PT's have helped me a ton. If you can get some stability from other parts of your body, likely hip area and core, it could do wonders for your back both from a pain/longevity standpoint and golf mechanics stand point.

[DJ Watts]

Hello friends,

I've just returned from a quick outing to the range.

I've mentioned that although I have had scoliosis, I only began to think about the connection between it and my swing since last February, so about two and a half months.

I have been investigating how to get a more shallow down swing and the solution was one that surprised me. But as I said, I've figured out tougher things than a swing plane in a lifetime of participation in numerous athletic activities.

So, this is on the day after I had a thought last night about my address stance:

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vU_KdqA76E&feature=youtu.be[/media]

From the address adjustment that I hadn't yet investigated, it's a matter of swinging on the right angle [i](not left for me or down the line, but out to the ball)[/i] and physics takes care of the rest.

This is the exact same swing as my steeper-descent swing, with an address adjustment and a focus on getting the lower back looser.

Best,

DJ

[Chief Cowpie]

DJ, you hit your 6 iron approx. 200 yards with a high flight trajectory?

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='Chief Cowpie' timestamp='1398451487' post='9170271']
DJ, you hit your 6 iron approx. 200 yards with a high flight trajectory?
[/quote]

Hi Chief,

I'd say that distance is around what I'd be using a 6 for on the course in normal conditions. On the range, 220-230 in the same conditions. And yes, my ball flight is what you'd call high...

Best,

DJ

[bph7]

why does your 6 iron go 30 yards longer on the range?

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1398452890' post='9170445']
why does your 6 iron go 30 yards longer on the range?
[/quote]

bph7,

Because I would never swing full out on the course, I'd use an 85-90% swing. I can hit my 6 230 yards and have done so on the range, but I would never recommend a 100% swing with any club unless there was a special reason.

I remember hitting a 6 iron last summer on the course to a 224 yard flag by the Bushnell measurement, but there was a following wind. Otherwise, I would have pulled the 5 iron.

Best,

DJ

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1398455889' post='9170817']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1398452890' post='9170445']
why does your 6 iron go 30 yards longer on the range?
[/quote]

bph7,

Because I would never swing full out on the course, I'd use an 85-90% swing. I can hit my 6 230 yards and have done so on the range, but I would never recommend a 100% swing with any club unless there was a special reason.

I remember hitting a 6 iron last summer on the course to a 224 yard flag by the Bushnell measurement, but there was a following wind. Otherwise, I would have pulled the 5 iron.

Best,

DJ
[/quote]

DJ, he didn't ask why you hit your 6-iron shorter on the course. He asked why you hit your 6-iron longer on the range.

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1398456607' post='9170909']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1398455889' post='9170817']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1398452890' post='9170445']
why does your 6 iron go 30 yards longer on the range?
[/quote]

bph7,

Because I would never swing full out on the course, I'd use an 85-90% swing. I can hit my 6 230 yards and have done so on the range, but I would never recommend a 100% swing with any club unless there was a special reason.

I remember hitting a 6 iron last summer on the course to a 224 yard flag by the Bushnell measurement, but there was a following wind. Otherwise, I would have pulled the 5 iron.

Best,

DJ
[/quote]

DJ, he didn't ask why you hit your 6-iron shorter on the course. He asked why you hit your 6-iron longer on the range.
[/quote]

HitEmTrue,

Let me try again then!

I hit it longer on the range because 1) it's the range, and 2) it doesn't matter if you miss, which gives you a looseness and freedom to swing away that you don't have on the course most times.

I haven't played enough recently to swing full-out with a club on the course. That might change, of course, as I play more this year.

Best,

DJ

[thegooddoctor]

Dj any thoughts on my post regarding shortening the swing? It looks like your most recent swings are less "long:

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='thegooddoctor' timestamp='1398462596' post='9171491']
Dj any thoughts on my post regarding shortening the swing? It looks like your most recent swings are less "long:
[/quote]

Hi thegooddoctor,

Apologies, I must have missed it there - the swing would be shorter as today was the first time swinging with this adjustment. It will either get a little longer as I get used to the new [i]"feels"[/i] if you would, or it won't. I figure it will get a little longer, but not by much.

Best,

DJ

PS - Upon second thought, it will appear shorter because I'm standing on a different angle to the ball than previous. The previous angle allowed for a higher hands, longer back swing than this one permits. So, with this new address position, I will feel as much stretch, but the distance traveled will appear shorter.

Hope that answers your query

DJ

[limcauco]

DJ, I don't know, just trying to figure this out myself, isn't your steepening caused, among other things, by too flat shoulder turn? I think bec it's too flat, the hands goes up and out nearing the top due to the momentum of club being too back and down earlier (too horizontal). So club tries to recover or correct the too horizontal momentum near end of backswing. So solution would be get shoulders moving more upright, so club moves upright too and hence eliminate the "correcting" momentum nearing the top and transition.

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='limcauco' timestamp='1398480128' post='9173307']
DJ, I don't know, just trying to figure this out myself, isn't your steepening caused, among other things, by too flat shoulder turn? I think bec it's too flat, the hands goes up and out nearing the top due to the momentum of club being too back and down earlier[i] (too horizontal)[/i]. So club tries to recover or correct the too horizontal momentum near end of backswing. So solution would be get shoulders moving more upright, so club moves upright too and hence eliminate the "correcting" momentum nearing the top and transition.
[/quote]

Hi limcauco,

No. The steepness in my swing was being caused by my not having the optimal address position from which to swing. I had to find the position at address that would give me both square shoulders to the target line [u][i]and[/i][/u] straight arms.

My previous stance had me standing with a closed foot line and bent right arm in order to be able to stand with my shoulders parallel to the target line.

[quote][size=4][b]Updated:[/b] Just in case limcauco or others reading this thread aren't aware - I have scoliosis, and my abormal spine shape means I can't stand and swing the way most others do. [/size]

[size=4]I have been looking at ways to adjust my stance since determining in February that my condition would never allow me to stand square to the target line and swing with an inside-to-out path. [/size]


[size=4]Yesterday, I found the adjustment - a particular flaring of each foot and open foot line to the target line with a right-ward spine tilt.[/size][/quote]

[attachment=2193761:dj b.jpg]

I tinkered with the stance, but it's the exact same swing. Meaning, other than the stance change to get my right arm straightened while keeping the shoulders square[i] (with a standard stance, my shoulders are way open due to the spinal curve)[/i], it's the same swing, using the principles I set out above in the original thread post.

Back behind me and then out in front of me. Like swinging an axe.

I never lost sleep over the steepness although I didn't like it, but it caused such fainting spells on this forum that I said, [i]"OK, how exactly [b]do[/b] I shallow it a little?"[/i]

Took about four days thinking about it and hitting a few balls. It really is that simple. Had I been that concerned with it before, I might have changed it earlier. As it is, now I have.

Best,

DJ

[PingG10guy]

Lol

[DJ Watts]

Good Sunday morning, friends!

I managed to get out despite the cold and windy weather to hit some balls working on the new stance, and as you can see, [i]within a week[/i], it's possible to make changes in any swing without changing the fundamental and basic principles that make up your swing.

Some people had concerns about the steepness of my swing if I were to try playing some tournament golf, and I didn't have to go to a swing guru and spend fours working on a change, because I follow a very simple swing philosophy.

Still a neutral grip, still as erect as possible, with just enough bend in the knees to properly address the ball with this 9 iron, the back swing motion is the same and of course the down swing is on the proper angle[i] (for me, out to and through the ball, not swinging to the left or at the target)[/i], keeping the head stable and not turning through the down swing.

You'll see how I just let the momentum of the club swinging past impact to turn me around and to the finish.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQD8W8nDAz8&feature=youtu.be[/media]

Keeping it simple, for those who struggle with the golf swing, is the best way to achieve your aim - to strike the ball purely and have it go where you want it to.

Now, I spent years swinging with a closed foot line because I felt that was the best adjustment for my inability to swing while standing square to the target line[i] (spinal curve that opened the shoulders and caused an OTT move)[/i].

After the shock and horror that my down swing plane elicited here, I thought about it some more.

You see, I had determined already that I would never be able to swing with a more shallow plane standing square, and it was only a bit better with a closed foot line. So, I had rejected the open stance years ago because I always hit everything left to begin with.

But this time, I made the counter-intuitive move, that actually worked, to my shock. And there, I fixed a mental mistake and[i] took my own advice[/i] that I give others when working with them on their swings - if something isn't working after a concerted effort, [i]it likely won't.[/i] A swing is a basic athletic motion. It isn't rocket science.

[b][u]Solution[/u]: Try something[i] different[/i].[/b]

It shouldn't take a lifetime to change your swing[i] (if you aren't prevented by some condition or disability)[/i] if you have issues with it. I have a condition, and it took a week when I opened my mind.

Determine the problem, and find the solution. There are always multiple ways to skin a cat.


Best,

DJ

[no where to look]

[i]But this time, I made the counter-intuitive move, that actually worked, to my shock. And there, I fixed a mental mistake and took my own advice that I give others when working with them on their swings - if something isn't working after a concerted effort, it likely won't. A swing is a basic athletic motion. It isn't rocket science.[/i]


Dj,
Isnt rocket science its neurological science.(billions of neurons firing per second)


You changed your conscious intention and the subconscious changed the sequentional movement. No concerted effort, or practice or drills will change any sequential human movement. Change the intention and the sequence will change in an instant.

You changed your stance to line up your heels with the target line. Why?
Now your subconscious has to deal with that restriction placed on your torso, to turn.
Please dont tell us you believe in coiling the upper body against the lower body.

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='no where to look' timestamp='1398604589' post='9180005']
[i]But this time, I made the counter-intuitive move, that actually worked, to my shock. And there, I fixed a mental mistake and took my own advice that I give others when working with them on their swings - if something isn't working after a concerted effort, it likely won't. A swing is a basic athletic motion. It isn't rocket science.[/i]


Dj,
Isnt rocket science its neurological science.(billions of neurons firing per second)


You changed your conscious intention and the subconscious changed the sequentional movement. No concerted effort, or practice or drills will change any sequential human movement. Change the intention and the sequence will change in an instant.

You changed your stance to line up your heels with the target line. Why?
Now your subconscious has to deal with that restriction placed on your torso, to turn.
Please dont tell us you believe in coiling the upper body against the lower body.
[/quote]

no where to look,

I have been criticized heavily on this forum for being [b][i]against[/i][/b] the[i] "coiling"[/i] thing [i](the thread on Jim Suttie re: Tiger's swing, for example)[/i], so that's not possible, is it?

The open stance with a particular flaring of the left foot and spine tilt to the right actually counteract the particular curve of my spine [i](I don't care why, it just does, and that's good enough for me)[/i] to allow me to address the ball with my shoulders parallel to the target line and with both arms fairly straight.

The other way, my shoulders were square but my right arm was much more bent than the left, which I didn't care for but thought was the only way to square the shoulders.

I still swing with my regular action, which means I don't have to [i]"coil"[/i] my upper body against my lower body any more than I ever have. I swing with a floating heel, so I've noticed that my heel lift[i] (and this is not a deliberate action, I'm not pushing up with my toes to lift the heel)[/i] is a little higher now, which makes sense.

My swing action is to let the shoulder turn pull the hips on the back swing. There is always going to be more shoulder turn than hip turn, even with the classic free-hips action, you just don't want to[i] "wring the towel,"[/i] so to speak.

So now, when my shoulders pull the hips, the open stance means the hip turn pulls my left heel up [i](keeping the heel down alters the kinetic chain action, either restricting the hips or changing the way in which they turn)[/i] a little earlier and a little higher than before.

No restriction there. I don't like things in my subconscious, which is why I swing as freely as possible and with as few [i](if any)[/i] compensating moves as possible.

My back swing consists of shifting my weight to the right heel and turning my shoulders. Doesn't get any simpler than that, for me - but [i]if I find a way[/i], I'll do it. The only set dogma in my philosophy is [i]"keep it simple."[/i]

Best,

DJ

[no where to look]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1398608221' post='9180241']
[quote name='no where to look' timestamp='1398604589' post='9180005']
[i]But this time, I made the counter-intuitive move, that actually worked, to my shock. And there, I fixed a mental mistake and took my own advice that I give others when working with them on their swings - if something isn't working after a concerted effort, it likely won't. A swing is a basic athletic motion. It isn't rocket science.[/i]


Dj,
Isnt rocket science its neurological science.(billions of neurons firing per second)


You changed your conscious intention and the subconscious changed the sequentional movement. No concerted effort, or practice or drills will change any sequential human movement. Change the intention and the sequence will change in an instant.

You changed your stance to line up your heels with the target line. Why?
Now your subconscious has to deal with that restriction placed on your torso, to turn.
Please dont tell us you believe in coiling the upper body against the lower body.
[/quote]

no where to look,

I have been criticized heavily on this forum for being [b][i]against[/i][/b] the[i] "coiling"[/i] thing [i](the thread on Jim Suttie re: Tiger's swing, for example)[/i], so that's not possible, is it?

The open stance with a particular flaring of the left foot and spine tilt to the right actually counteract the particular curve of my spine [i](I don't care why, it just does, and that's good enough for me)[/i] to allow me to address the ball with my shoulders parallel to the target line and with both arms fairly straight.

The other way, my shoulders were square but my right arm was much more bent than the left, which I didn't care for but thought was the only way to square the shoulders.

I still swing with my regular action, which means I don't have to [i]"coil"[/i] my upper body against my lower body any more than I ever have. I swing with a floating heel, so I've noticed that my heel lift[i] (and this is not a deliberate action, I'm not pushing up with my toes to lift the heel)[/i] is a little higher now, which makes sense.

My swing action is to let the shoulder turn pull the hips on the back swing. There is always going to be more shoulder turn than hip turn, even with the classic free-hips action, you just don't want to[i] "wring the towel,"[/i] so to speak.

So now, when my shoulders pull the hips, the open stance means the hip turn pulls my left heel up [i](keeping the heel down alters the kinetic chain action, either restricting the hips or changing the way in which they turn)[/i] a little earlier and a little higher than before.

No restriction there. I don't like things in my subconscious, which is why I swing as freely as possible and with as few [i](if any)[/i] compensating moves as possible.

My back swing consists of shifting my weight to the right heel and turning my shoulders. Doesn't get any simpler than that, for me - but [i]if I find a way[/i], I'll do it. The only set dogma in my philosophy is [i]"keep it simple."[/i]

Best,

DJ
[/quote]

Im not up to date on your previous postings about coil.
you do say your shoulders pull the hips. How is that possible? sounds like coil in reverse?

don't we turn our torso to generate power and in DS that power is transmitted through our shoulders, arms to the club lever, which includes our hands?

the shoulders are the loosest joints in our body. they turn 60 degrees independent of any turning of our torso.

There is zero strain on our hips and back if we turn our torso from hips to sternum as one. no coil in either direction.
The scapula provide addition leverage to transmit the power to the club lever.

You obviously have power to burn.
Seems to me your issue for tournaments is trusting your distance control. 230 yard 6 iron on the range ? what do you hit when your 170 yards from the green... lob wedge?

Shouldn't you be practicing on the range what you will use/need on the course?