DJ Watts' Swing Principles/Philosophy

[Chief Cowpie]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1398946877' post='9209875']
Morning glory , it's been a while , chief cowpie any tips for resurrection ?
[/quote]

They grind the stomach a bit too much for my taste. Had them laying around my desk once and just started munching on them out of curiosity. They do have enough thrust in the booster rockets to escape Earth's gravitational field, surprisingly so for some ordinary seeds bought at a hardware store. Was going to tell folks they had beautiful glistening auras but thought they might think I was weird.

[Chief Cowpie]

[quote name='limcauco' timestamp='1398951610' post='9210297']
[quote name='Chief Cowpie' timestamp='1398943996' post='9209723']
[quote name='limcauco' timestamp='1398913250' post='9208747']
[quote name='limcauco' timestamp='1398831703' post='9201437']
Dj, isn't more hip turn in downswing for those with higher hands on top? Less hip turn for lower hands on top?

If you have high hands and have less hip turn, would stress back too much bec back would be bunched up bec you can't turn hips immediately to get it out of the way bec hands needs to get lower first.

If you have low hands on top, you need to or you can get the hips out of the way immediately.

But I think not everybody can have low hands on top though. Only the lucky few, I guess.
[/quote]

Bump...

Legitimate question DJ. May not conform with what you've already said, but like what you would say on this.
[/quote]

Until DJ gets to this, you have received no bounty of nature thinking you have an idyllic position having low hands on the top as you are the unlucky few. And being in a position that minimizes total body leverage, yes, there has to be less hip turn to get it working, imo, but am open to what DJ may say. Quite simply, there has to be an exactitude of perfect timing for such a swing and so as well, this movement can be seen quite often on tour for folks who have the time to practice it and as well, seen to lose it quite often even with the amount of practice put in. Likewise while DJ may have his hands high on the top, his takeaway on the inside diagonal is initially as low as any of you mad flatters.
[/quote]

Beg to disagree. The unlucky few can increase in numbers with correct elements taken in.

Low hands (with the correct element) needs less timing and practice. No need to turn the hips much in backswing to allow or compensate for the "wait" in transition (for hands and club to come down and in). Even Mr. Nicklaus admits he has to wait, eventually he got his hands lower.

But I like Mr. Austin's ideas very much, just don't like the high hands on top (not that there's something wrong with it, I just don't prefer it; I could and open to be convinced otherwise though).

Mr. Austin practically invented the whole left side swinging down like a gate, posting on right leg, wrists being cocked consciously early, right leg straightening, then weight to left leg, rut side swinging like a gate, and the full release from top. I like it. Did I say that already??

Many uses his concepts but was never given credit for it.
[/quote]

Go ahead for you and others, go make 500 million dollars with this swing and have your smiling face slathered across all types of media but its not for me but if it works for you, go for it. Equally so, the more classical swing as demonstrated by Bubba does just as well if not better (opinion) but there is not enough time in the ephemeral manifestation of the cosmos (so far 14 billions year and estimates ranging to full cycle of 30 billion) for this conversation to finish.

Like Mr. Nicklaus, I wait as well but don't find it an inconvenience as in my busy schedule, the microsecond cat nap on the down swing is most welcome.

Enjoy

[limcauco]

[quote name='Chief Cowpie' timestamp='1399032029' post='9216871']
[quote name='limcauco' timestamp='1398951610' post='9210297']
[quote name='Chief Cowpie' timestamp='1398943996' post='9209723']
[quote name='limcauco' timestamp='1398913250' post='9208747']
[quote name='limcauco' timestamp='1398831703' post='9201437']
Dj, isn't more hip turn in downswing for those with higher hands on top? Less hip turn for lower hands on top?

If you have high hands and have less hip turn, would stress back too much bec back would be bunched up bec you can't turn hips immediately to get it out of the way bec hands needs to get lower first.

If you have low hands on top, you need to or you can get the hips out of the way immediately.

But I think not everybody can have low hands on top though. Only the lucky few, I guess.
[/quote]

Bump...

Legitimate question DJ. May not conform with what you've already said, but like what you would say on this.
[/quote]

Until DJ gets to this, you have received no bounty of nature thinking you have an idyllic position having low hands on the top as you are the unlucky few. And being in a position that minimizes total body leverage, yes, there has to be less hip turn to get it working, imo, but am open to what DJ may say. Quite simply, there has to be an exactitude of perfect timing for such a swing and so as well, this movement can be seen quite often on tour for folks who have the time to practice it and as well, seen to lose it quite often even with the amount of practice put in. Likewise while DJ may have his hands high on the top, his takeaway on the inside diagonal is initially as low as any of you mad flatters.
[/quote]

Beg to disagree. The unlucky few can increase in numbers with correct elements taken in.

Low hands (with the correct element) needs less timing and practice. No need to turn the hips much in backswing to allow or compensate for the "wait" in transition (for hands and club to come down and in). Even Mr. Nicklaus admits he has to wait, eventually he got his hands lower.

But I like Mr. Austin's ideas very much, just don't like the high hands on top (not that there's something wrong with it, I just don't prefer it; I could and open to be convinced otherwise though).

Mr. Austin practically invented the whole left side swinging down like a gate, posting on right leg, wrists being cocked consciously early, right leg straightening, then weight to left leg, rut side swinging like a gate, and the full release from top. I like it. Did I say that already??

Many uses his concepts but was never given credit for it.
[/quote]

Go ahead for you and others, go make 500 million dollars with this swing and have your smiling face slathered across all types of media but its not for me but if it works for you, go for it. Equally so, the more classical swing as demonstrated by Bubba does just as well if not better (opinion) but there is not enough time in the ephemeral manifestation of the cosmos (so far 14 billions year and estimates ranging to full cycle of 30 billion) for this conversation to finish.

Like Mr. Nicklaus, I wait as well but don't find it an inconvenience as in my busy schedule, the microsecond cat nap on the down swing is most welcome.

Enjoy
[/quote]

What's the advantages of the wait?

[tembolo1284]

Chief, please give me the contact of your LSD dealer.

[Ryan Gash]

Just thought I'd share....Yesterday I read and thought about the whole throwing a ball under hand thing. Well the old lady and I went out and played 14 holes after work(til dark) I was hitting the ball longer and straighter then I have yest this year. Irons where pure. Maybe just coincidental. But it was something that actually made sense to me in how to change my swing slightly.

[Chief Cowpie]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1399033265' post='9216951']
Chief, please give me the contact of your LSD dealer.
[/quote]

Dude, no need for a dealer. Get yourself a cow for the roof of your NYC apartment and the reap the fruit of the cowpies in the morning. You could even take your cow golfing with you on weekends. She would love that, especially if you are wild off the tee and get into the deep rough.

[Chief Cowpie]

[quote name='limcauco' timestamp='1399032206' post='9216895']

What's the advantages of the wait?
[/quote]

For one, I have no problem with the timing most of the time and Jack doesn't seem to have had one either, all of the time.

The advantage of the wait as I told a fellow met on the course yesterday who had an upright swing, is if someone was going to pick up a golf club and swing it, without a lesson, an upright swing would ensue, much like what's seen in Jack or Bubba or John Daly. Now, before I get plastered to ceiling, yes Jack had lessons but it was only to groom this natural athletic swing he already had. A flat swing, on the other hand, is a taught swing. Is not a natural motion but is taught. And so the big advantage of the classic swing, much like Payne Stewart's which has a thread going now is it flows from natural movement. Can Mother Nature be wrong?

But as well, I do take exception to the idea that folks with a flatter swing don't have timing issues.

[Chief Cowpie]

[quote name='Ryan Gash' timestamp='1399033441' post='9216973']
Just thought I'd share....Yesterday I read and thought about the whole throwing a ball under hand thing. Well the old lady and I went out and played 14 holes after work(til dark) I was hitting the ball longer and straighter then I have yest this year. Irons where pure. Maybe just coincidental. But it was something that actually made sense to me in how to change my swing slightly.
[/quote]

It was only coincidental. Trust in the coincidence though. Jack did.

[Ryan Gash]

[quote name='Chief Cowpie' timestamp='1399035581' post='9217141']
[quote name='Ryan Gash' timestamp='1399033441' post='9216973']
Just thought I'd share....Yesterday I read and thought about the whole throwing a ball under hand thing. Well the old lady and I went out and played 14 holes after work(til dark) I was hitting the ball longer and straighter then I have yest this year. Irons where pure. Maybe just coincidental. But it was something that actually made sense to me in how to change my swing slightly.
[/quote]

It was only coincidental. Trust in the coincidence though. Jack did.
[/quote]

hahaha, you're great!

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='Ryan Gash' timestamp='1399033441' post='9216973']
Just thought I'd share....Yesterday I read and thought about the whole throwing a ball under hand thing. Well the old lady and I went out and played 14 holes after work(til dark) I was hitting the ball longer and straighter then I have yest this year. Irons where pure. Maybe just coincidental. But it was something that actually made sense to me in how to change my swing slightly.
[/quote]

Hi Ryan,

That's great to hear! And as Chief says, purely coincidental...

Best,

DJ

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='Chief Cowpie' timestamp='1399035385' post='9217111']
The advantage of the wait as I told a fellow met on the course yesterday who had an upright swing, i[b]s if someone was going to pick up a golf club and swing it, without a lesson, an upright swing would ensue, [/b]much like what's seen in Jack or Bubba or John Daly. Now, before I get plastered to ceiling, yes Jack had lessons but it was only to groom this natural athletic swing he already had. A flat swing, on the other hand, is a taught swing. Is not a natural motion but is taught. And so the big advantage of the classic swing, much like Payne Stewart's which has a thread going now is it flows from natural movement. [b]Can Mother Nature be wrong?[/b]
[/quote]

Now we should watch all the beginners on the range, and model after them. Fantastic.

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1399041850' post='9217889']
[quote name='Chief Cowpie' timestamp='1399035385' post='9217111']
The advantage of the wait as I told a fellow met on the course yesterday who had an upright swing, is if someone was going to pick up a golf club and swing it, without a lesson, an upright swing would ensue, much like what's seen in Jack or Bubba or John Daly. Now, before I get plastered to ceiling, yes Jack had lessons but it was only to groom this natural athletic swing he already had. A flat swing, on the other hand, is a taught swing. Is not a natural motion but is taught. And so the big advantage of the classic swing, much like Payne Stewart's which has a thread going now is it flows from natural movement. Can Mother Nature be wrong?
[/quote]

Now we should watch all the beginners on the range, and model after them. Fantastic.
[/quote]

Hi HitEmTrue,

Not quite what you say, but here are three swingers who had very little teaching between the three of them, and look at their address stance and posture. Very little leg bend, more erect, and relaxed spines.

[attachment=2205085:posture dtl.jpg]

The first two built their own swings, the third needed only yearly tune-ups from his coach.

I'd say these are three pretty good swings to model, what would you say?

Best,

DJ

[tembolo1284]

Jack was trained very extensively by Jack Grout from age 10 to a few years after he turned pro....then he only would need tune-ups every so often.

So about 12-15 years of coaching before he was out on his own.

[QMany]

You want me to swing like John Daly?

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1399043527' post='9218047']
The first two built their own swings, the third needed only yearly tune-ups from his coach.

I'd say these are three pretty good swings to model, what would you say?

[/quote]

None of those look like beginners to me.

[DJ Watts]

The first two built their own swings, the third needed only yearly tune-ups from his coach.

 

I'd say these are three pretty good swings to model, what would you say?

 

 

None of those look like beginners to me.

 

HitEmTrue,

 

What were they when they first picked up a club or stick to swing? Pros?

 

Sam Snead taught himself the golf swing hitting rocks in the fields with a stick. I also built my final swing model on the mechanics of... swinging a stick...

 

 

Some things are better when simplified. You don't need a degree in physics to swing a stick. Why would it be different with a golf club?

 

Simpler is better, in my humble opinion.

 

Best,

 

DJ

[Ryan Gash]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1399040737' post='9217745']
[quote name='Ryan Gash' timestamp='1399033441' post='9216973']
Just thought I'd share....Yesterday I read and thought about the whole throwing a ball under hand thing. Well the old lady and I went out and played 14 holes after work(til dark) I was hitting the ball longer and straighter then I have yest this year. Irons where pure. Maybe just coincidental. But it was something that actually made sense to me in how to change my swing slightly.
[/quote]

Hi Ryan,

That's great to hear! And as Chief says, purely coincidental...

Best,

DJ
[/quote]

My swing just feels more like it did last year....relaxed would be the perfect example. I've had some lessons try to change things and it hasn't been working.. I've always been a student of sports that tends to learn well from film and reading. Even contact sports..

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1399047035' post='9218413']
What were they when they first picked up a club or stick to swing? Pros?
[/quote]

EVERY pro was a beginner when they started out.

Is it your official stance that we should go out to the range, watch folks swinging a club for the first time, and gain insight into how we should swing the club?

If so, that is an absurd notion.

( edit )
I agree with simple.

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1399047485' post='9218475']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1399047035' post='9218413']
What were they when they first picked up a club or stick to swing? Pros?
[/quote]

EVERY pro was a beginner when they started out.

Is it your official stance that we should go out to the range, watch folks swinging a club for the first time, and gain insight into how we should swing the club?

If so, that is an absurd notion.

( edit )
I agree with simple.
[/quote]

HitEmTrue,

[i][color=#282828]"Is it your official stance that we should go out to the range, watch folks swinging a club for the first time, and gain insight into how we should swing the club"[/color][/i]

[color=#282828]I would[i] love[/i] for you to find my saying that, anywhere. Please post it here with the link.[/color]

[color=#282828]Otherwise, you might argue with me on what I'm actually saying. [i][b]What I'm saying is, "Simpler is better."[/b][/i][/color]

[color=#282828]Best,[/color]

[color=#282828]DJ[/color]

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='Ryan Gash' timestamp='1399047479' post='9218473']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1399040737' post='9217745']
[quote name='Ryan Gash' timestamp='1399033441' post='9216973']
Just thought I'd share....Yesterday I read and thought about the whole throwing a ball under hand thing. Well the old lady and I went out and played 14 holes after work(til dark) I was hitting the ball longer and straighter then I have yest this year. Irons where pure. Maybe just coincidental. But it was something that actually made sense to me in how to change my swing slightly.
[/quote]

Hi Ryan,

That's great to hear! And as Chief says, purely coincidental...

Best,

DJ
[/quote]

My swing just feels more like it did last year....relaxed would be the perfect example. I've had some lessons try to change things and it hasn't been working.. I've always been a student of sports that tends to learn well from film and reading. Even contact sports..
[/quote]

Ryan,

I have similar experience to yours. I've been studying the swing for years, and started out attempting to emulate the model of this swinger or that swinger. Last autumn/late summer, I picked up a stick I've used for working on the golf swing indoors, and said to myself, [i]"How would I swing a stick? Not for hitting a golf ball, but[b] just to swing a stick[/b] to perhaps hit a pebble on the ground or something where the greatest speed is at the bottom (impact)?"[/i]

I video-filmed myself swinging the stick, and my current swing motion comes from that. I don't see any simpler way to swing.

Best,

DJ

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1399047665' post='9218495']
HitEmTrue,

[i][color=#282828]"Is it your official stance that we should go out to the range, watch folks swinging a club for the first time, and gain insight into how we should swing the club"[/color][/i]

[color=#282828]I would[i] love[/i] for you to find my saying that, anywhere. Please post it here with the link.[/color]

[color=#282828]Otherwise, you might argue with me on what I'm actually saying. [i][b]What I'm saying is, "Simpler is better."[/b][/i][/color]
[/quote]

Cowpie basically said it, and now you've been trying to refute my objection to his logic.

I bolded his statement in previous post.

I agree that simpler is better.

[eightiron]

13 pages for "swing the stick"

[tembolo1284]

So I guess ballet dancers should all watch me. I've got the simplest dance motion of them all. But we usually refer to it as walking.

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1399047879' post='9218521']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1399047665' post='9218495']
HitEmTrue,

[i][color=#282828]"Is it your official stance that we should go out to the range, watch folks swinging a club for the first time, and gain insight into how we should swing the club"[/color][/i]

[color=#282828]I would[i] love[/i] for you to find my saying that, anywhere. Please post it here with the link.[/color]

[color=#282828]Otherwise, you might argue with me on what I'm actually saying. [i][b]What I'm saying is, "Simpler is better."[/b][/i][/color]
[/quote]

Cowpie basically said it, and now you've been trying to refute my objection to his logic.
[/quote]

HitEmTrue,

I simply posted the address positions viewed down the line of three famous PGA golfers who had either completely self-built swings or largely swung the way (Nicklaus) they had from childhood, with very little revision over their careers.

I also asked if these swings might be something to emulate.

Anything else you read into it, you read into it. As you agree that simple is better, I have no argument with that statement. You on the other hand would object if I stated the sky is blue.

Best,

DJ

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1399047995' post='9218531']
13 pages for "swing the stick"
[/quote]

eightiron,

It's actually 13 pages of people like you posting [i]extremely helpful things[/i] such as your latest comment. Have a great day!

Best,

DJ

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1399048110' post='9218545']
[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1399047879' post='9218521']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1399047665' post='9218495']
HitEmTrue,

[i][color=#282828]"Is it your official stance that we should go out to the range, watch folks swinging a club for the first time, and gain insight into how we should swing the club"[/color][/i]

[color=#282828]I would[i] love[/i] for you to find my saying that, anywhere. Please post it here with the link.[/color]

[color=#282828]Otherwise, you might argue with me on what I'm actually saying. [i][b]What I'm saying is, "Simpler is better."[/b][/i][/color]
[/quote]

Cowpie basically said it, and now you've been trying to refute my objection to his logic.
[/quote]

HitEmTrue,

I simply posted the address positions viewed down the line of three famous PGA golfers who had either completely self-built swings or largely swung the way (Nicklaus) they had from childhood, with very little revision over their careers.

I also asked if these swings might be something to emulate.

Anything else you read into it, you read into it. As you agree that simple is better, I have no argument with that statement. You on the other hand would object if I stated the sky is blue.
[/quote]

DJ, I ONLY objected to Cowpie's logic regarding beginners, and the natural motion provided by "Mother Nature."

If I am not making that clear, then my apologies.

[DJ Watts]

I've got some work to take care of, so I must take my leave for now. I must say that I am extremely flattered at the number of people who contest everything I say about the golf swing and yet who can't stay away from this thread.

Whatever the reason, I thank you all for the discussion.

There's hope yet!

Have a great Friday, talk to you all later.

Best,

DJ

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1399048338' post='9218573']
I must say that I am extremely flattered at the number of people who contest everything I say about the golf swing and yet who can't stay away from this thread.
[/quote]

Why does it flatter you when I disagree with something someone else said? That is odd.

[DJ Watts]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1399048337' post='9218571']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1399048110' post='9218545']
[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1399047879' post='9218521']
[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1399047665' post='9218495']
HitEmTrue,

[i][color=#282828]"Is it your official stance that we should go out to the range, watch folks swinging a club for the first time, and gain insight into how we should swing the club"[/color][/i]

[color=#282828]I would[i] love[/i] for you to find my saying that, anywhere. Please post it here with the link.[/color]

[color=#282828]Otherwise, you might argue with me on what I'm actually saying. [i][b]What I'm saying is, "Simpler is better."[/b][/i][/color]
[/quote]

Cowpie basically said it, and now you've been trying to refute my objection to his logic.
[/quote]

HitEmTrue,

I simply posted the address positions viewed down the line of three famous PGA golfers who had either completely self-built swings or largely swung the way (Nicklaus) they had from childhood, with very little revision over their careers.

I also asked if these swings might be something to emulate.

Anything else you read into it, you read into it. As you agree that simple is better, I have no argument with that statement. You on the other hand would object if I stated the sky is blue.
[/quote]

DJ, I ONLY objected to Cowpie's logic regarding beginners, and the natural motion provided by "Mother Nature."

If I am not making that clear, then my apologies.
[/quote]

HitEmTrue,

No apology needed. That was only the impression I received. I wish you no ill. I have to go, but I hope you have a great day.

Best,

DJ

PS - My remark was more to eightiron, about whom I've heard a ton from others with more history on this forum. I wish I could repeat it all...

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='DJ Watts' timestamp='1399048421' post='9218585']
No apology needed. That was only the impression I received. I wish you no ill. I have to go, but I hope you have a great day.
[/quote]

No problem...have a great day, too!