Some ideas about the trail arm straightening

[eightiron]

Micah's point is relevant imop especially if you can play a golf course backwards with a shovel

[iteachgolf]

 

Hogan one frame after p6. 48*. I'd say 55-60 at p5.5 was a pretty good guess eyeballing it.

[iteachgolf]

 

56* at p5.5. Solid guess on the actual photo I posted.

[russc1597187869]

Another series of pictures pre accident Hogan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wlIIg6JQiU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vZXg1Zg4VY

[iteachgolf]

Which show it's not even close to 90* at p6

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='tommy89' timestamp='1419274972' post='10629205']
Interested in this thread if there is anything positive to add?
[/quote]

Hogan told Weiskopf the right elbow should be bent 45 degs at impact, and bent through impact, so it has to have substantial bend at p6. Weiskopf picked up on it, calling it free power, and later claimed the more bent the right arm at impact, the better.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OtYRiEmVsfY

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1419357395' post='10633575']
[quote name='tommy89' timestamp='1419274972' post='10629205']
Interested in this thread if there is anything positive to add?
[/quote]

Hogan told Weiskopf the right elbow should be bent 45 degs at impact, and bent through impact, so it has to have substantial bend at p6. Weiskopf picked up on it, calling it free power, and later claimed the more bent the right arm at impact, the better.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OtYRiEmVsfY
[/quote]

It was bent right around 45-55* at p6. Because the arm straightened from p4-p6 the right shoulder didn't have to stall to straighten it from p6-p7. The straightening early allows the shoulder turn to fire late through Impact which kept the right arm from straightening much from p6 to p7.

It's this sequence that keeps his shoulders so closed late coming down and get on or below the elbow plane, depending on club, so early. It's the hands working away from the right shoulder that allows this as well as his shoulders turning more level through impact. Had he kept right arm bent 90* into p6 his right shoulder would need to be extremely low and shoulder turn would have had to be extremely steep with shoulders opening up much sooner.

Ps it wasn't bent 45* at impact in the overwhelming majority of swings. It was straighter than that

[Shaggie]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419361110' post='10633869']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1419357395' post='10633575']
[quote name='tommy89' timestamp='1419274972' post='10629205']
Interested in this thread if there is anything positive to add?
[/quote]

Hogan told Weiskopf the right elbow should be bent 45 degs at impact, and bent through impact, so it has to have substantial bend at p6. Weiskopf picked up on it, calling it free power, and later claimed the more bent the right arm at impact, the better.

[url="http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OtYRiEmVsfY"]http://m.youtube.com...h?v=OtYRiEmVsfY[/url]
[/quote]

It was bent right around 45-55* at p6. Because the arm straightened from p4-p6 the right shoulder didn't have to stall to straighten it from p6-p7. The straightening early allows the shoulder turn to fire late through Impact which kept the right arm from straightening much from p6 to p7.

It's this sequence that keeps his shoulders so closed late coming down and get on or below the elbow plane, depending on club, so early. It's the hands working away from the right shoulder that allows this as well as his shoulders turning more level through impact. Had he kept right arm bent 90* into p6 his right shoulder would need to be extremely low and shoulder turn would have had to be extremely steep with shoulders opening up much sooner.

Ps it wasn't bent 45* at impact in the overwhelming majority of swings. It was straighter than that
[/quote]Where do the hands and clubface need to be at impact to hit a standartd shot average ballflight with a wedge? Also should the the sole of the iron be level?

[iteachgolf]

What's a standard shot and average ball flight? Couldn't be more vague. I've yet to see two tour level players who have identical impact alignments and flights. Due to the bounce present the sole will not be level on anything remotely close to "standard".

Hands and clubface can be in a ton of different locations and resuly in consistent results. There is literally no way to answer your question

[Shaggie]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419362467' post='10633953']
What's a standard shot and average ball flight? Couldn't be more vague. I've yet to see two tour level players who have identical impact alignments and flights. Due to the bounce present the sole will not be level on anything remotely close to "standard".

Hands and clubface can be in a ton of different locations and resuly in consistent results. There is literally no way to answer your question
[/quote][quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419362467' post='10633953']
What's a standard shot and average ball flight? Couldn't be more vague. I've yet to see two tour level players who have identical impact alignments and flights. Due to the bounce present the sole will not be level on anything remotely close to "standard".

Hands and clubface can be in a ton of different locations and resuly in consistent results. There is literally no way to answer your question
[/quote]Woul you want to return your hands through your address position I would think with a standard loft of an 8 iron at 37 degrees you would want that to be your benchmark for average shot and tneaverage lie angle at 63 degrees when at address the specs of the club tell me the hands are coming in close but not exactley on the 63 degree lie angel and hitting the ball at close to 37degrees loft I think that would be the intent of an 8 iron

[iteachgolf]

Doesn't work like that. Can't think in degrees while swinging. An 8 iron isn't a wedge. The shaft bends downward in the downswing so shaft is not straight. Matching address? Depends on setup. Generally no. Hands will General be higher and more forward. But depends on how you set up

[notsohard]

[media=]

[/media]

 

 

P5.6

 

Straightens very hard from here.

 

and your calling that 50 degees?

 

 

 

you're wrong, get over it.

[Shaggie]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419363952' post='10634073']
Doesn't work like that. Can't think in degrees while swinging. An 8 iron isn't a wedge. The shaft bends downward in the downswing so shaft is not straight. Matching address? Depends on setup. Generally no. Hands will General be higher and more forward. But depends on how you set up
[/quote]Would you say i would have to adapt muy swing to lie angel of club I know i cant be thinking degrees but I am in construction business and each tool has its purpose and slight variations just like golf clubs The bend of the shaft is minimal in my recollection of clubfiitting s tha t I have had I would think that the longer the cllub can be brought into the hitting of the ball at the close to correct lie angle the better chance you hav at hitting the ball center face consistent not longer but consistent So I would say you cant be shallow or steep you have to bring the tool into the object on or about on the angle that it was built for

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1419363636' post='10634047']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419362467' post='10633953']
What's a standard shot and average ball flight? Couldn't be more vague. I've yet to see two tour level players who have identical impact alignments and flights. Due to the bounce present the sole will not be level on anything remotely close to "standard".

Hands and clubface can be in a ton of different locations and resuly in consistent results. There is literally no way to answer your question
[/quote][quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419362467' post='10633953']
What's a standard shot and average ball flight? Couldn't be more vague. I've yet to see two tour level players who have identical impact alignments and flights. Due to the bounce present the sole will not be level on anything remotely close to "standard".

Hands and clubface can be in a ton of different locations and resuly in consistent results. There is literally no way to answer your question
[/quote]Woul you want to return your hands through your address position I would think with a standard loft of an 8 iron at 37 degrees you would want that to be your benchmark for average shot and tneaverage lie angle at 63 degrees when at address the specs of the club tell me the hands are coming in close but not exactley on the 63 degree lie angel and hitting the ball at close to 37degrees loft I think that would be the intent of an 8 iron
[/quote]

name 1 good player that has a dynamic loft anywhere near 37 degrees on an 8 iron at impact

[iteachgolf]

Lie angle is more of a ballflight tool. Groubd is hit after the ball. The longer the club the more droop in the shaft. It's quite a bit more significant than you'd think, especially with longer clubs. Can you hit a ball off a non level lie? Ball above your feet is equivalent of extremely upright lie angle. Opposite for below your feet.

[thekru]

How does grip affect right arm bend? Stronger grip more right arm bend at impact vs. weaker grip more extension in the right arm? Strong grip more shoulder tilt and more open vs weaker grip less shoulder tilt and shoulders more square?

[iteachgolf]

Not necessarily a factor. Plenty of guys with strong grips but straightish right arm and less open shoulders. And guys with weak grips/open club faces who have more bent right arm and open shoulders. Grip is more related to wrist alignments at impact. Can have straight right arm and a bunch of shaft lean. And bent right arm without shaft lean. I'd call it casual relationships but nothing that is even close to universally applicable

[thekru]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419366549' post='10634251']
Not necessarily a factor. Plenty of guys with strong grips but straightish right arm and less open shoulders. And guys with weak grips/open club faces who have more bent right arm and open shoulders. Grip is more related to wrist alignments at impact. Can have straight right arm and a bunch of shaft lean. And bent right arm without shaft lean. I'd call it casual relationships but nothing that is even close to universally applicable
[/quote]

Is there anything that is universally applicable in a golf swing?

[tommy89]

Wow, iv'e seen UFC fights less brutal than this thread. Can't we all just get along


I think Dan has this wrapped up. Time for the others to go home so we can get some useful information rather a bunch of playground bitching?

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='thekru' timestamp='1419367080' post='10634287']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419366549' post='10634251']
Not necessarily a factor. Plenty of guys with strong grips but straightish right arm and less open shoulders. And guys with weak grips/open club faces who have more bent right arm and open shoulders. Grip is more related to wrist alignments at impact. Can have straight right arm and a bunch of shaft lean. And bent right arm without shaft lean. I'd call it casual relationships but nothing that is even close to universally applicable
[/quote]

Is there anything that is universally applicable in a golf swing?
[/quote]

There are if you are talking about performing well. Like I said grip in relation to clubface has huge impact on wrist alignments at impact. That doesn't mean everyone gets to the same place with similar grips. It means that to hit quality shots to a target you have limited options how you can arrive at impact with a given grip to clubface relationship. It's not "universal" but closest you're going to get. Grip vs right arm bend isn't barely if at all casually related

[iteachgolf]

Strong straight right arm

 

Very Strong straight right arm

 

Weak with straight right arm

 

weak grip straight right arm

 

Strong grip bent right arm

 

Weak grip bent right arm

 

 

I'd say correlation is extremely weak

 

[Shaggie]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419365461' post='10634181']
Lie angle is more of a ballflight tool. Groubd is hit after the ball. The longer the club the more droop in the shaft. It's quite a bit more significant than you'd think, especially with longer clubs. Can you hit a ball off a non level lie? Ball above your feet is equivalent of right armextremely upright lie angle. Opposite for below your feet.
[/quote]I thnk I can and I would say that keeping that shaft on its proper shaft plane takes alot more right arm bend than people think me included It feels like looping under for me but when I look at the video it is right on plane m y wedges are my biggest concern of coming over the top because of the fact they are shorter and more upright I really have to feel that arm bend under to get it on plane

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1419368870' post='10634391']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419365461' post='10634181']
Lie angle is more of a ballflight tool. Groubd is hit after the ball. The longer the club the more droop in the shaft. It's quite a bit more significant than you'd think, especially with longer clubs. Can you hit a ball off a non level lie? Ball above your feet is equivalent of right armextremely upright lie angle. Opposite for below your feet.
[/quote]I thnk I can and I would say that keeping that shaft on its proper shaft plane takes alot more right arm bend than people think me included It feels like looping under for me but when I look at the video it is right on plane m y wedges are my biggest concern of coming over the top because of the fact they are shorter and more upright I really have to feel that arm bend under to get it on plane
[/quote]

And I'd say that's a feel for YOU. The average guy who tries to keep right arm bent is going to spin shoulders too open and wipe across it. Good players will get arms way behind them. If pivot is working correctly you can't straighten right arm too fast.

My point on uneven lie Is that lie angle over rated for anything but ball flight fitting. Anytime ground isn't perfectly level your lie angle is now wrong. How often when playing do you hit from perfectly level lies?

99% of amatuers keep the right arm bent too long. And it will make more OTT not less and require stalling shoulders later in downswing

[Shaggie]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419369031' post='10634401']
[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1419368870' post='10634391']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419365461' post='10634181']
Lie angle is more of a ballflight tool. Groubd is hit after the ball. The longer the club the more droop in the shaft. It's quite a bit more significant than you'd think, especially with longer clubs. Can you hit a ball off a non level lie? Ball above your feet is equivalent of right armextremely upright lie angle. Opposite for below your feet.
[/quote]I thnk I can and I would say that keeping that shaft on its proper shaft plane takes alot more right arm bend than people think me included It feels like looping under for me but when I look at the video it is right on plane m y wedges are my biggest concern of coming over the top because of the fact they are shorter and more upright I really have to feel that arm bend under to get it on plane
[/quote]

And I'd say that's a feel for YOU. The average guy who tries to keep right arm bent is going to spin shoulders too open and wipe across it. Good players will get arms way behind them. If pivot is working correctly you can't straighten right arm too fast.
[/quote]I am talking backwing and hoping to elininate the feel of looping under so I can get the club to the top on the correct plane and than release the spring because i cant control anyting on the downswing until i am facing the target hoping it went straight

[iteachgolf]

And that has anything to do with this thread or discussion? This entire thread is about right arm straightening coming down.

Backswing absolutely does not have to work up on the lie angle of the club. Hall of fame has guys on both extremes way under and way above the address shaft plane.

[Shaggie]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419369636' post='10634427']
And that has anything to do with this thread or discussion? This entire thread is about right arm straightening coming down.

Backswing a bsolutely does not have to work up on the lie angle of the club. Hall of fame has guys on both extremes way under and way above the address shaft plane.
[/quote]I think bending the right elbow in is the precursor to straightening it on the downswing and if it is at the right angle it will straighten to the point of impact and the left arm will fold in I agree on the hofs golf is more than a great swing many great swings havent made a dime

[iteachgolf]

Left arm shouldn't begin to bend until long after impact. Again you're coming out of left field and dragging this off topic. So Bobby Jones, Hogan, Snead, Trevino, etc don't have good swings? Quite certain they were the best ballstrikers of their time. None had an "on plane" takeaway. Club isn't even setup on the lie angle at address, should always be below it at setup with toe of club up in the air.

[chrisgilly09]

Always? Is that a fundamental then??? Lol

[Mr Mustard]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1419361830' post='10633911']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419361110' post='10633869']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1419357395' post='10633575']
[quote name='tommy89' timestamp='1419274972' post='10629205']
Interested in this thread if there is anything positive to add?
[/quote]

Hogan told Weiskopf the right elbow should be bent 45 degs at impact, and bent through impact, so it has to have substantial bend at p6. Weiskopf picked up on it, calling it free power, and later claimed the more bent the right arm at impact, the better.

[url="http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OtYRiEmVsfY"]http://m.youtube.com...h?v=OtYRiEmVsfY[/url]
[/quote]

It was bent right around 45-55* at p6. Because the arm straightened from p4-p6 the right shoulder didn't have to stall to straighten it from p6-p7. The straightening early allows the shoulder turn to fire late through Impact which kept the right arm from straightening much from p6 to p7.

It's this sequence that keeps his shoulders so closed late coming down and get on or below the elbow plane, depending on club, so early. It's the hands working away from the right shoulder that allows this as well as his shoulders turning more level through impact. Had he kept right arm bent 90* into p6 his right shoulder would need to be extremely low and shoulder turn would have had to be extremely steep with shoulders opening up much sooner.

Ps it wasn't bent 45* at impact in the overwhelming majority of swings. It was straighter than that
[/quote]Where do the hands and clubface need to be at impact to hit a standartd shot average ballflight with a wedge? Also should the the sole of the iron be level?
[/quote]

I say the hands and club face could be in numerous positions to hit and average shot, but they would need to be somewhere close to this to hit an optimum ball flight.

[attachment=2545139:image.jpg]

Also, what club your using shouldn't change the way you swing, the game is tough enough as it is.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1419372450' post='10634619']
Always? Is that a fundamental then??? Lol
[/quote]

Since shaft droops and shoulders are almost always more tilted at impact, meaning left shoulder is higher the hands will be higher and should be to compensate for shaft droop. Or you could hit fat shots off the toe if you want to not account for those variables