Some ideas about the trail arm straightening

[iteachgolf]

And have shoulders 90+ degrees open at contact

[FrankLinnear]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419385103' post='10635329']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419377205' post='10634887']
Hands move at a faster speed than the right elbow. The elbow starts moving first due to momentum for a very short period of time. Theres a difference between moving at the same rate and moving at same speed. Has nothing to do with current topic though Russ. In Hogan's swing his hands are moving faster than his shoulders in both rate and speed. Which is why his hands work away from his right shoulder immediately.
[/quote]
Before i respond what is your defintion of rate and speed.?
[/quote]
Rewind the tape.Clearly Iteachgolf stated the elbow moves first for a short period of time

[FrankLinnear]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419430619' post='10636867']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419391406' post='10635745']
When moving in a circle an object rotating around a circle can spin at a fixed rate but the end will be moving faster than the part closest to the center. Even if elbow and hand were moving at a fixed rate, meaning right arm maintaining same flex and not straightening, the hands would be moving faster than the elbow. This is extremely basic. Same rate/rpms is not Equal to same speed

Hands move faster than the elbow and much faster than shoulders. Top of the swing depends on what you consider the top. If you consider the start of downswing when the club begins changing directions then as soon as the downswing starts hands are moving faster than elbow and much faster than shoulders virtually immediately in almost all instances.
[/quote]
The humerus bone connects the elbow to the shoulder while the hands/ wrist are connected to the elbow by the ulna and radius bones.
In your example the center of the circle is the shoulder joint.Thus both the hands and elbow will be moving faster than the shoulder .
Are the hands moving faster than the elbow in the transition thru early part of the downswing ?Obviously the humerus bone does not change length so the distance travelled by the hands will be the same as that travelled by the hands ; thus the hands will move at the same speed as the right elbow provided the right arm does not extend (straighten) and provided there is no internal or external rotation of the shoulder .If a golfer makes the elbow move (see second video below),two things happen .the right shoulder transversely adducts meaning that the upper arm moves closer to the body .Does this change the speed of the hands relative to the elbow .NO.The second thing that happens is that the right shoulder externally rotates.This movement actually will result in the right elbow rotating more than the the hands.Whether this means that the elbow moves faster than the hands ,i can not tell ,but unless the lower right am straightens the hands will not be moving faster than the hands .Now of course the lower right arm does eventually strengthen and the hands start to move faster than the right elbow
Rotational ,movements of the right elbow will mirror rotational movements of the right shoulder via (hopefull) external and not internal rotation of the right shoulder
Notice that in the first video Mr Quiros right arm angle actually becomes more acute in transition/early downswing,while in the second Kelvin Miyahira draws lines indicating that the right elbow has moved more than the hands. . Mr Quiros , is the golfer in the dark shirt in Kelvins video
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0APuaJXoA2I[/media]
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQPj4lmHKL4[/media]

Look at the 2 video below
[/quote]
Which makes this post a huge strawman.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419436296' post='10637281']
And have shoulders 90+ degrees open at contact
[/quote]

Not me...I just make P4-P6 look good then stall/jump/dump/wipe with square shoulders at impact. All in a matter of .01 seconds. Im a beast like that. I call it #takinapoo

[FrankLinnear]

I like the line drawing though.Ah the good old days when Manzella was king of the liners.My pet name for him was 'white line fever'

[iteachgolf]

For guys who like line drawings and visuals.

 

 

Here is when his right arm stays roughly the same flex, even when his right arm slightly increases in flex. Which traveled a greater distance during each interval?

 

 

Difference in speed becomes far great as the arm straightens. But even in the very first fram where right elbow slightly increases in flex the hands travel a greater distance and therefore move faster

 

 

 

[MizunoJoe]

Now that we've established that all tour players straighten the right arm as fast as possible, right from the top, let's take a look at the best ball striker on tour the last few yrs. Notice that even though the right shoulder and hands don't separate til p5.62251, there's a good reason. Boo has very weak right triceps.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LO_J9jhosMs

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1419443260' post='10637749']
Now that we've established that all tour players straighten the right arm as fast as possible, right from the top, let's take a look at the best ball striker on tour the last few yrs. Notice that even though the right shoulder and hands don't separate til p5.62251, there's a good reason. Boo has very weak right triceps.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LO_J9jhosMs
[/quote]

Do you have data to suggest his triceps are weak? It looks to me like he just increases flex in the right arm late...

[ej002]

I remember when I said Boo was bad-arse... and Fats laughed at me. Then he saw him in person and said he was the real deal. Too bad he can't put a lick.

[iteachgolf]

You can't be a dense as you seem. I stated plainly that you should straighten it as fast as possible. Certainly not that all do. But on average the tour player does it much faster than the am. I also stated many times that even though the intent is to straighten it as fast as possible the right shoulder working down and forward, has a lot less momentum to fight in transition and therefore is easier to move first, prevents it from becoming straight until after impact. Just like when you throw a ball. The elbow isn't straightening immediately but the intent is to straighten it as fast and as soon as possible. There is a difference in intent and action with you add in momentum and changing directions.

[Coat Jones]

Not that complicated overall-

We can shorten by lengthening, or lengthen by shortening, as long as we don’t lengthen by lengthening, or shorten by shortening, we have the long and short of it.

Feliz Navidad.

[iteachgolf]

 

 

So how do you believe it goes from the top photo to the bottom without any intent on straightening? Certainly won't happen trying to keep it bent. Boo is a perfect example of momenumt delaying it a touch in transition. How much has the elbow moved vs. the hands?

[iteachgolf]

 

Next 2 frames. But your right. He's not trying to straighten it at all. He's trying to keep it bent as long as possible

[PingG10guy]

Dan...keeping the right arm bent too long would make it harder to effectively use the unconscious forearm rotation involved in closing the clubface right?

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1419445003' post='10637897']
Dan...keeping the right arm bent too long would make it harder to effectively use the unconscious forearm rotation involved in closing the clubface right?
[/quote]

It'd also force you to be on very upright plane angles with high hands at impact. Forces you to uncock your wrist sooner as well. Lots of push cuts and low hooks possible

[PingG10guy]

So Homer was correct...releasing right arm sooner = maintaining/releasing wrist angles late? 1-2-3

[iteachgolf]

Yes. If you don't release 4-1 or the later you do the sooner you have to dump 2-3. It's about simple radius. If radius isnt lengthened by right arm extending and left arm moving off chest you have to make the club "longer" by dumping wrist angles in order to reach the ball.

[ALIF]

I think Russ should go to Barnes & Noble bookstore and buy the book "physics for dummies". Call it an early Christmas present.

[JPGolf FL]

Breaking news....... Video is 2 dimensional and you can not see the right arm straightening from a face on view. You can however use that view to make yourself believe the right arm doesn't straighten.

[MonteScheinblum]

All you have to do to understand Dan's points is suspend still frames from your mind. Stills have ruined people's perceptions about what's supposed to happen.

The swing is a sequence that is dependent on individual anatomy and what happened before it.

All arms straighten from the top. Guys with longer arms (among several other factors) will be perceived to straighten later than guys with shorter arms.

It's common sense. If Hogan's arms straightened at the same time as Floyd's he'd put the club in the ground. The elbow straightens at the rate that produces impact. It's a body reaction. You try and force a hogan right impact elbow and it doesn't fit your body or pivot, you will have no success and may miss the ball.

To get back on point, all elbows should straighten from the top.

[Mr Mustard]

Whatever arm action you decide on, don't put tattoos all over it...

[attachment=2545563:image.jpg]

[attachment=2545589:image.jpg]

Pardon me, but I don't think that you can get here if you're trying to straighten immediately from the top

[attachment=2545593:image.jpg]

[JPGolf FL]

[quote name='Mr Mustard' timestamp='1419446635' post='10638029']


Pardon me, but I don't think that you can get here if you're trying to straighten immediately from the top

[attachment=2545593:image.jpg]
[/quote]
You have a much better chance than if you tried to keep it bent as some here suggest.

[iteachgolf]

Wanna bet on that? Straightening from the top would create hands that went lower, more left, and with more lag.


Also way to bring your narrow mind to this thread. My tattoos are VERY different than Foley's

[iteachgolf]

 

This is even more exaggerated than the Hogan photo you posted. Guess what his intent is?

[hackdog]

[quote name='Mr Mustard' timestamp='1419446635' post='10638029']
Pardon me, but I don't think that you can get here if you're trying to straighten immediately from the top

[attachment=2545593:image.jpg]
[/quote]

Too bad your ignorance is keeping you from some really good and powerful golf. Here's to a smarter New Year for you.

[Mr Mustard]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419446908' post='10638045']
Wanna bet on that? Straightening from the top would create hands that went lower, more left, and with more lag.


Also way to bring your narrow mind to this thread. My tattoos are VERY different than Foley's
[/quote]

You mean like............. they're less gay?

[PingG10guy]

Zach has to straighten the right arm...or considering your previous comment...his grip is strong as hell. If he let out any 3 its nighty night.

[iteachgolf]

Keep posting personal insults because you can't admit you were wrong. A real man could simply state they were wrong and actually learn rather than stay ignorant and look like a fool.


And I'm fine with my tattoos. Never have tried to hide them. I've even posted pictures here in other threads. They were done for me not you or anyone else. And anyone who knows me knows I couldn't care less about your opinion on them

[tommy89]

The difference between people with tattoos and people without?


People with them don't care you haven't got them.



And you look less cool

[Mr Mustard]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419447417' post='10638085']
Keep posting personal insults because you can't admit you were wrong. A real man could simply state they were wrong and actually learn rather than stay ignorant and look like a fool.


And I'm fine with my tattoos. Never have tried to hide them. I've even posted pictures here in other threads. They were done for me not you or anyone else. And anyone who knows me knows I couldn't care less about your opinion on them
[/quote]

Real men don't need to draw on themselves to remember significant events or memories.

And what exactly have I been wrong about? I've said that:

-setting up lower than impact is not fundamental

-I don't think straightening the right arm immediately from the top is the best way to deliver the club

Are either of those false?