UK Classic Club Thread - John Letters, Ben Sayers, Slazenger, Dunlop, George Nicoll, Swilken, Petron

[Jiggered]

1 hour ago, Beginers-luck said:

Ok thanks for the info. I was reading today that the trilogy TXD irons encompassed all the best features from the predecessors. So they must of been the last of the trilogy range. If anyone else has information on this range please get in touch. I will continues my research around online. Cheers

 

That's obviously untrue, they're as ugly as hell! 😉

 

I choose my irons primarily on looks so if I were to buy a set it would be the original Trilogy irons.

[elwhippy]

The initial Trilogy irons were very successful. The follow ups showed how not to improve on a classic iron design. 

[Beginers-luck]

1 hour ago, elwhippy said:

The initial Trilogy irons were very successful. The follow ups showed how not to improve on a classic iron design. 

Maybe that's why they had to get bailed out from the creditors in 2005. 

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

I once had a conversation with  one of the BGCS members, may have been Robin Shuker, who was something to do with market research analysis and had been retained to provide advice on the lack of success of the TXD. The owners were surprised because they thought by incorporating the best elements they would be on a winner.

They were the Ford Edsel of the golfing world and what you get when you use a committee to design a product.

The originals were ok and a good idea but the big offset meant they were never going to be 'players' clubs.

Robin may well have details of the anatomy of their failure.

Edited November 29, 2023 by The Aspidistra in the Hall

[andycolm1991]

Looking for some help here guys! Picked these up in a charity shop for 3 and want to put them in play with my recently purchased Macgregor woods. 
 

They seem very short in length…. Any info would be much appreciated 

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

1 hour ago, andycolm1991 said:

Looking for some help here guys! Picked these up in a charity shop for 3 and want to put them in play with my recently purchased Macgregor woods. 
 

They seem very short in length…. Any info would be much appreciated 

Tom Halliburton, long term and much loved Pro at Wentworth before Bernard Gallacher, 1970 or so. How long is the 5 iron?

[andycolm1991]

1 hour ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

Tom Halliburton, long term and much loved Pro at Wentworth before Bernard Gallacher, 1970 or so. How long is the 5 iron?

Thanks! 5 iron measuring 37 inches 

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

22 minutes ago, andycolm1991 said:

Thanks! 5 iron measuring 37 inches 

The 5 iron in my 1962 set of Wilsons, their Turfrider model, does indeed measure 37 inches. Your John Letters clubs could well be of that time, Tom Halliburton played Ryder Cup in 1961 so would have been a named draw then.

It's probably the correct playing length with the rest of the set at 1/2 inch increments. Enjoy.

[andycolm1991]

39 minutes ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

The 5 iron in my 1962 set of Wilsons, their Turfrider model, does indeed measure 37 inches. Your John Letters clubs could well be of that time, Tom Halliburton played Ryder Cup in 1961 so would have been a named draw then.

It's probably the correct playing length with the rest of the set at 1/2 inch increments. Enjoy.

Amazing!! I wonder what the lofts are. Does anyone have a link to the JL catalogue?

[bcstones]

4 minutes ago, andycolm1991 said:

I wonder what the lofts are.

I was turned on to a protractor app (free btw) "Protractor Smart", that does help (may not be perfect, but it's close) 

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

15 hours ago, andycolm1991 said:

Amazing!! I wonder what the lofts are. Does anyone have a link to the JL catalogue?

No, I don't, but most lofts of the era followed 30 degrees for the 5 iron and 50 degrees for the wedge with 4 degree increments for other clubs.

You won't be far out with that formula.

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

10 hours ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

No, I don't, but most lofts of the era followed 30 degrees for the 5 iron and 50 degrees for the wedge with 4 degree increments for other clubs.

You won't be far out with that formula.

One other thing, these clubs won't have much bounce if any. A rookie mistake is to strengthen the lofts, which will result in a set full of 'diggers', so don't.

[Jiggered]

On 12/17/2023 at 11:54 AM, andycolm1991 said:

Looking for some help here guys! Picked these up in a charity shop for 3 and want to put them in play with my recently purchased Macgregor woods. 
 

They seem very short in length…. Any info would be much appreciated 

 

 

 

Thanks for the post, that's a signature model I've not seen before. 

 

The original Power Master came out in 1961, see picture below of the standard model, which has John Letters where yours has Tom Halliburton.

 

My guess is that yours was ordered by Tom Halliburton to sell through his shop at Wentworth (as The Aspidistra has kindly pointed out) and John Letters stamped his signature on it.  

 

I've seen two other Tom Halliburton clubs, one an earlier John Letters and the other a Penfold, both shown below.

The signatures on the two John Letters clubs are near enough identical so they could have used the same stamp for both models.

 

 

 

[andycolm1991]

20 hours ago, Jiggered said:

 

Thanks for the post, that's a signature model I've not seen before. 

 

The original Power Master came out in 1961, see picture below of the standard model, which has John Letters where yours has Tom Halliburton.

 

My guess is that yours was ordered by Tom Halliburton to sell through his shop at Wentworth (as The Aspidistra has kindly pointed out) and John Letters stamped his signature on it.  

 

I've seen two other Tom Halliburton clubs, one an earlier John Letters and the other a Penfold, both shown below.

The signatures on the two John Letters clubs are near enough identical so they could have used the same stamp for both models.

 

 

 

Wow! That’s some serious knowledge there👌 thanks

[bcstones]

1 minute ago, andycolm1991 said:

Wow! That’s some serious knowledge there👌 thanks

check out @Jiggered 's link at the bottom of his post....lots and Lots of "serious knowledge" there

[andycolm1991]

2 minutes ago, andycolm1991 said:

Wow! That’s some serious knowledge there👌 thanks

Hit them for the first time today on the sim. Absolute butter off the face - super impressed. 
 

6 iron data: 

[andycolm1991]

7 minutes ago, bcstones said:

check out @Jiggered 's link at the bottom of his post....lots and Lots of "serious knowledge" there

Thanks! This thread is gold dust 👌

[Jiggered]

I've been watching these clubs on ebay for what must be well over a year.

They were collection only but too far away from me, I didn't think anyone else would bid for them so was willing to bide my time in the hope that I'd be in the area some day but it never happened and I was starting to worry that the seller might delist them.  So I arranged with a good friend on another forum and he collected them for me and I arranged for a courier to collect from him.

 

So what are these clubs?
Nothing of worth, in fact I'm sure I paid over the market value, but I was happy with the price.
They're a 1950s set of Harold Bird irons, he of the Harold Bird & Son fame but these are from before his son joined the company.

They're a copy of the MacGregor MT Tourney irons from 1950, and as anyone who watches my videos will know, I have a weak spot for wingbacks!

The shafts on a couple of the clubs have lost quite a bit of chrome but I think they'll be okay for dry summer days! Most of the original leather grips have been replaced and the replacement rubber grips are now crumbling so I'll need to regrip those.

 

 

 

[bcstones]

@Jiggered Congratulations on your acquisitions...I'll be looking forward to a video sometime in the future.

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

15 hours ago, Jiggered said:

I've been watching these clubs on ebay for what must be well over a year.

They were collection only but too far away from me, I didn't think anyone else would bid for them so was willing to bide my time in the hope that I'd be in the area some day but it never happened and I was starting to worry that the seller might delist them.  So I arranged with a good friend on another forum and he collected them for me and I arranged for a courier to collect from him.

 

So what are these clubs?
Nothing of worth, in fact I'm sure I paid over the market value, but I was happy with the price.
They're a 1950s set of Harold Bird irons, he of the Harold Bird & Son fame but these are from before his son joined the company.

They're a copy of the MacGregor MT Tourney irons from 1950, and as anyone who watches my videos will know, I have a weak spot for wingbacks!

The shafts on a couple of the clubs have lost quite a bit of chrome but I think they'll be okay for dry summer days! Most of the original leather grips have been replaced and the replacement rubber grips are now crumbling so I'll need to regrip those.

 

 

 

I see them as singletons but never a full set...well picked up.

 

I have often got around the 'ccollection only' issue, especially if the item has been on sale for a good time, by arranging an empty box with a prepaid return label and packaging to be sent, Evri works best. All the vendor has to do is pack it up and drop off at a local store or Post Office. Costs me around a tenner for shipping and often the seller will go with the suggestion.

I'v done it on Marketplace as well for low value items and done the above and put cash (never more than £10) in the empty box, and that has worked as well with no 'disappointments'.

[Jiggered]

I've been quietly keeping my eye out for a set of Castle clubs for some time now, so when these popped up on ebay at a good price I didn't think twice, Reg Trapp irons by the Castle Equipment Company. 

 

A quick internet search reveals a Reg Trapp who was born in 1910, son of Tom Trapp. Reg was Professional at Molesey Hurst Golf Club, Greater London in 1934, but the club closed in 1935, hope the two aren't connected!

Where he went after that I don't know but it looks as though he was still around in the 1960s when I guess that these were made.

 

I love the Reg Trapp "Trapmaster"!  There are two of these for some reason, the more used one has a ladies shaft and ferrule so when that was added to the set I can only guess.

 

 

Edited March 27 by Jiggered

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

5 hours ago, Jiggered said:

I've been quietly keeping my eye out for a set of Castle clubs for some time now, so when these popped up on ebay at a good price I didn't think twice, Reg Trapp irons by the Castle Equipment Company. 

 

A quick internet search reveals a Reg Trapp who was born in 1910, son of Tom Trapp. Reg was Professional at Molesey Hurst Golf Club, Greater London in 1934, but the club closed in 1935, hope the two aren't connected!

Where he went after that I don't know but it looks as though he was still around in the 1960s when I guess that these were made.

 

I love the Reg Trapp "Trapmaster"!  There are two of these for some reason, the more used one has a ladies shaft and ferrule so when that was added to the set I can only guess.

 

 

Well, it's me again....and I believe I can help you with Reg Trapp.

Our family moved to High Wycombe in 1959 and we lived very close by the golf course at Flackwell Heath. When my parents weren't watching I would slide out of a window at the back, cross the dirt road and onto the first tee. To the right was the Pros shop and he had an indoor practice room you hit against a couple of old mattresses. That's how I started. Mr and Mrs Trapp ran the shop, he would have been in his 50s then. He was certainly there until 1969. Very nice couple and highly regarded. He would play matches on Sunday afternoon with the Captain of the year against other members. Not long off the tee, he was a fairly portly gentleman, but boy was he straight. I had a Trapmaster as my first sand wedge.

[Jiggered]

10 minutes ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

Well, it's me again....and I believe I can help you with Reg Trapp.

Our family moved to High Wycombe in 1959 and we lived very close by the golf course at Flackwell Heath. When my parents weren't watching I would slide out of a window at the back, cross the dirt road and onto the first tee. To the right was the Pros shop and he had an indoor practice room you hit against a couple of old mattresses. That's how I started. Mr and Mrs Trapp ran the shop, he would have been in his 50s then. He was certainly there until 1969. Very nice couple and highly regarded. He would play matches on Sunday afternoon with the Captain of the year against other members. Not long off the tee, he was a fairly portly gentleman, but boy was he straight. I had a Trapmaster as my first sand wedge.

 

Thanks. that's great!

 

I was hoping that someone might have a bit more information on Reg Trapp and you've come up trumps there, ties in perfectly with the suspected date too.

[Jesper Frigast Larsen]

These clubs which recently came my way may be one of the last dying breaths from Swilken of St. Andrews before they went out of business in 1995. A game improvement set (it says so on the shaft band), "Tournament GI", Apollo 46 shafts. "Made in St Andrews Scotland" it says, although I wonder where the cast was made. Nice metal woods with rather small heads by today's standards. Still very playable, but I am letting them go to a beginner of the game who should get much enjoyment from the clubs.

[Jiggered]

2 hours ago, Jesper Frigast Larsen said:

These clubs which recently came my way may be one of the last dying breaths from Swilken of St. Andrews before they went out of business in 1995. A game improvement set (it says so on the shaft band), "Tournament GI", Apollo 46 shafts. "Made in St Andrews Scotland" it says, although I wonder where the cast was made. Nice metal woods with rather small heads by today's standards. Still very playable, but I am letting them go to a beginner of the game who should get much enjoyment from the clubs.

 

 

I think the irons came out in 1989, don't know about the woods though.

[elwhippy]

Swilken Tournament was their bargain basement offering. 

[bcstones]

1 hour ago, elwhippy said:

Swilken Tournament was their bargain basement offering. 

Does it really matter?...the OP is gifting them to a beginner. Sure looks to me like a good set to begin to learn with.