El Campeon or Pine Barrens?

[nbigg]

If you could pick one which one would it be? Heading to Orlando in a couple of weeks and we are going to either Mission Inn or World Woods and I'm curious to hear preferences.

 

Cheers

[RichieHunt]

That's a tough one.

I would probably go with Pine Barrens.

Both are unique for Florida courses, but a few holes at El Campeon I really don't care for like #1 (stupid tree in the way ), #8, and #17. Too great of a possiblity of hitting a well struck shot and still getting penalized for it. You don't get that at Pine Barrens outside of the back tees on #18 and I just refuse to play that back tee box on #18 anyway (cut the stupid tree branches).

The disadvantage is usually the play is a bit slower at Pine Barrens and it is in the middle of nowhere. El Campeon is just a short trip the Turnpike and you're not too far from the city of Orlando. Better have GPS if you're going to Pine Barrens.






RH

[nbigg]

Thanks for the input!

[sabram]

If you're going just for a day of golf, World Woods. If you are staying over as part of a vacation, Mission Inn

[Mr Fabulous]

For me, and the other three guys that I played with at both courses 3 weeks ago, the answer is simple : El Campeon. It does depend on what you want - both courses are in fantastic condition (played Pine Barrens on 12th March, El Campeon on 17th March), but all the "wasteland" areas on Pine Barrens can get a little irritating. If you are low handicappers, Pine Barrens is probably the more challenging, if you are higher handicappers, you will enjoy El Campeon more (plus it's prettier on the eye).

In the pro-shop at El Campeon there was also a vote-count of the top-rated (for course condition) courses in mid-Florida, and it came out as Number 1. I understand Richie's comments entirely (and his advice is ALWAYS sound), but can't agree with his views on #17 - it's a spectacular hole, and if you play, check out the Bald Eagle's nest on the top of the tree just down the right side of the fairway ! You will enjoy either, though El Campeon is also far more accessible from Orlando.

[RichieHunt]

Thanks for the kind words, Mr. Fabulous.

#17 would be a fine golf hole if that tree wasn't in the way. And it would be spectacular if I could reach it with 2 excellent golf shots. I'm not a big fan of long water in front of a par-5 that for all intents and purposes you can't reach. The last time I played that hole I hit a great drive, layed up perfectly and hit a P-Wedge flush to hole and it backed up off the green and into the water.

I also don't care much for #1 (another goofy tree in the way). #7 is a bit ridiculous.

I can't remember the exact holes, but I think it is #13 and #14 at Pine Barrens play close to 500 yards and they are par-4's. But, they are from an elevated tee and into a downhill sloping fairway.

I will say that I wouldn't exactly begrudge a playing partner for choosing one over the other and it really comes down to price, pace of play and condition in the end.







RH

[dcoggins3]

anyone play cheval recently?

[johnnylongballz72]

This is a tough one, but I would say go to World Woods. Especially if you are going to play both courses at either place. Rolling Oaks is much better than the other course at Mission Inn. You will have a really good golfing experience no matter which one you decide on.

[TM_HOYER]

I played El Campeon last year at this time and left with a positive impression. I loved the course as it is not like anything you find in Florida and in nice shape. I was playing by myself with no one in front of me and when I reached the 11th tee there I came to a dead stop. There were a number of foursomes in front of me. The last foursome actually sent someone back to the tee where I was to tell me to play 15 - 17 and come back to play 11-14 and 18 after finishing those three holes. They were members playing in a group. I did as they told me and played with no hold ups.

[mwmgolfx]

I just had the opportunity weekend before last to play El Campeon for the first time. I definitely agree with Richie about the tree on #17. Stupid position for tree. Played with an Orlando area local teaching pro and the tree caused him to not be able to go for the green even though he was in the left center of the fairway. Some of the other trees and holes are also limited in my position.

And it wasn't that much hillier than a number of other courses in the area, including Bella Collina. I'm not even sure its hillier than Rolling Oaks but it might be. Certainly not Lake Jovita.

Course was in immaculate condition though. And was nice, though housiing at the end or side of several holes detracted from it a little bit. And they are trying to sell more Condos on it.

But after playing it and Pine Barrons this week, I'd go with Pine Barrens in a heartbeat. Much stronger golf course especially for the better golfer. And in regards to the waste bunkers, yes, there are a lot of them, but I've played other courses with more sand than there are waste bunkers there.

[BD57]

Like them both ... but Pine Barrens is the option.

As to the waste bunkers . . . stay out of them. That may sound flippant, but they're really not that hard to avoid, if you're playing the right tees.

Between the two, Pine Barrens requires much more thought - there are strategic options, there are heroic shots you can try to gain an advantage . . . or decline if you decide your game's not in "that kind of shape" right now.

I'll join others in my distaste for #17 @ El Campeon. Frankly, there's an overgrowth of trees on that hole - the trees on the right which complicate the tee shot are more offensive to me than the one in the area of the second shot (get the lay up shot past the tree & it opens up), but I understand why some dislike that tree.

And I'll join Richie in my distaste for #18 at Pine Barrens - IMO, it's the only bad hole on the course, and it's a bad hole from pretty much any tee you play.

There's a couple of options out there for #18 -

#1, take out a ton of trees down the left hand side, expand the waste bunker hugging the left side of the fairway and make it more of a "cape" hole (as it is now, the trees make that play pretty much impossible). IMO, you'd need to take out some trees on the right, too - - - if you're going to have a "cape," you need room for the drive of the player who successfully challenges the "cape" to run out. It's not there now.

#2, cut a new fairway corridor to the green to the left of the current waste bunker - better a shorter, better 18th hole than a longer, weak one.
If I had my druthers, I'd bulldoze the current fairway and create a new corridor to the left of the current "waste area" bunker which hugs the left side of the current fairway.

[mwmgolfx]

Interesting comments on 18 at PB. I had the opportunity over the weekend to play with several pros and other really strong golfers (not me) and watched as they played the hole from the back tees. One had tree trouble because he hit a snap short hook off the tee. A few others hit 5 woods or hybrids off the tee to over the waste area sticking out right as the dogleg begins. Couple of the shorter guys hit driver and drew the ball around the corner except one who double crossed himself and pushed a slight fade right. Every one of them had no tree trouble with normal hit shots and except for the hooker, all were in the middle of the fairway. Most were about 150-165 from the green.

Few of the longer hitters (280-300+) types hit anything more than 5 wood. Shorter hitters (250-275 types) all went with driver or 3 - wood and took on the left corner with either a slight fade or moderate draw. When I asked everyone about why they did what they did, they all indicated that they just wanted to clear the waste area and not run out into the trees across the fairway.

And all felt that it was easy hybrid or fairway wood to safe position. No need to challenge anything - try for slight draw or slight fade and get it in play for the approach shot to the green. Even those that actually hit a driver were playing pretty straight and keeping it in play. Everyone felt it was a course management hole that didn't need driver and just needed a way to place the ball at the corner to have a reasonable shot at the green. And that seems pretty much what the good players that i've seen over the years do on this hole. for the most part, from what I've seen, the real trouble is at the hole, either someone coming up short right into that cavern of a bunker or missing the proper section of the green. I was talking with some of the management there and they were telling about a regional pro tournament there where the green speeds got a bit out of control and a number of pros 4-5 putted that green and several others 3-putted.

So to me, I don't see the issues on the tee shot for the long hitter. Us short hitters have issues with the waste area is we get too aggressive or else we have very long second shot which we have to layup on and it becomes a 3-shot hole.

[RichieHunt]

I wouldn't call myself a short hitter as I went on Trackman this past weekend and was clocked at 113.8 mph with a +2 attack angle. I have increased my club head speed quite a bit and hit the ball much longer than I did last year, although I was still generating about 105 mph last year. My issue with 18 at Pine Barrens has been the tree that is in the way which forces you to hit a draw. I don't recall the hole being too long for me, just getting around that tree was a massive nuisance. Without that tree, it's still a good test and it makes for a good golf hole.





RH

[moose557]

Played both for the first time in the last week and I loved them both, but if I'm forced to vote for one it's Pine Barrens. Both really unique courses for Florida. Pine Barrens is more difficult and has a lot of waste bunkers, but I didn't find it to be overly difficult. There were generous landing areas on most of the holes. The course does require a little strategy. It also really is way out there in the middle of no where.

I loved Mission Inn but 17 drove me nuts and the tree ruins the hole IMO. Sharp dog leg left and unless you have played the course before you have no idea there is a gigantic tree blocking most of the approach shots. I hit driver and what I thought was a perfect layup to the left side of the fairway. Get up there and find out I have no shot at the green from 140 yards and in the fairway because of the giant tree.

Richie, how did you increase your club head speed so much in 1 year?

[RichieHunt]

[quote name='moose557' timestamp='1438655441' post='12073542']
Richie, how did you increase your club head speed so much in 1 year?
[/quote]

Started working with a new instructor.





RH