MD/VA/DC Golfers - Ten Seconds or Less

[dcmidnight]

BTW for those interested in Erin Hills, the Milwaukee Journal did a pretty in depth 4 part series on the building of the course - part 5 comes out Sunday. Its a pretty long read but if you're interested in course history/design its a pretty cool read.

 

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2017/5/17/journal-sentinels-making-of-us-open-course-erin-hills.html

 

Hoping I can work at least a day there into the trip this summer. Probably going to be just a day trip as it doesn't seem to be the kind of place you'd spend 2-3 nights.

[FAbb]

Just a matter of opinion, I guess. I find the ability to produce good results over and over again much more impressive than the ability to produce good results occasionally, or somewhat regularly.

 

For example, PQ hits some prodigious drives. Very impressive, but I'm not loading more than a couple PQ drives per round into my mental spank bank. Let me watch DJ play a round of golf, and I'm probably loading almost every single drive into the mental spank bank. Far more impressive, to me.

[TheCityGame]

You give PQ, at age 37, 2 years of no job, no wife. . .pracky seshy every morning, round of golf with practice in the afternoon. . .I guarantee he's at worst a +2 and at that point, he's playing Bowditch and Bowditch is giving him 2 a side.

 

They're not super-human. They're just hit their best shot so often. Yes, that's a skill. I just don't go semi-chub over "so often".

 

And, I guarantee I've had rounds where a pro doesn't make up a stroke on me on the greens. But, again, they have that round all the time.

[misplacedtexan83]

I'm going to be more impressed with THDC whips Eagle's butt.

 

Low- Mid- high handicappers balling is more impressive than a scratch or more shooting par or -2 under.

 

 

[dcmidnight]

You give PQ, at age 37, 2 years of no job, no wife. . .pracky seshy every morning, round of golf with practice in the afternoon. . .I guarantee he's at worst a +2.

 

I would say this about anyone under a 5 or so.

[TheCityGame]

Slightly different topic. . .golf.com pod had Sean Foley on. Pretty interesting interview. Talks about hip hop, Buddhism, golf, bunch of stuff.

[TheCityGame]

You give PQ, at age 37, 2 years of no job, no wife. . .pracky seshy every morning, round of golf with practice in the afternoon. . .I guarantee he's at worst a +2.

 

I would say this about anyone under a 5 or so.

True, but it's easier to do if you can hit it 320. +2 might be a conservative estimate of PQ.

[FAbb]

I think what we're learning here is that City is more impressed with PQ's game than PGA Tour Pros games.

[dcmidnight]

Slightly different topic. . .golf.com pod had Sean Foley on. Pretty interesting interview. Talks about hip hop, Buddhism, golf, bunch of stuff.

 

Oof, I thought parts of it were borderline unlistenable. He's so much smarter and brighter and well read and more enlightened than everyone on the planet that its amazing we can all get up and go to work in the morning without help.

[pquarta1]

I'm driving. Will weigh in on PGA super golfers. Also, Foley is the epitome of douchebag.

[therealsneek]

I am most impressed with a pro's ability to go low. It takes something special to be comfortable being 5, 6 or 7 under par for a round and keep firing at pins.

 

Also, most of their short games are out of this world.

[TheCityGame]

I am most impressed with a pro's ability to go low. It takes something special to be comfortable being 5, 6 or 7 under par for a round and keep firing at pins.

 

Also, most of their short games are out of this world.

Their short games are the closest part of their game to any of our games. They are very much of this world.

 

My par save percentage is 54.6% in my last 20 rounds. That would put me ahead of about 20 golfers on the tour.

 

You can come up with a lot of reasons why it's not the same thing. . .they play on tougher greens, thicker rough, etc etc. But the point remains. . .it's not out of this world. It's not some invconceivable number, like "SMDH, even the worse ones are at 52%".

[TheCityGame]

I also talked about this with PQ yesterday. . .

 

1) Do unicorns have wings?

 

2) Pros are out putting on greens where. . .

 

a) they roll perfect and at consistent speeds.

b) They practice to the specific pin locations before the tournament

c) They have detailed pin sheets

d) They have detailed contour maps of greens

e) They have an experienced caddie helping with reads (may or may not help)

f) They often have the greens running so fast that the courses are limited to lower slopes and consequently less break. We agreed we'd much rather hit putts on a 12 stimp with a 2% slope than on a 10 stimp with a 4% slope.

[therealsneek]

I am most impressed with a pro's ability to go low. It takes something special to be comfortable being 5, 6 or 7 under par for a round and keep firing at pins.

 

Also, most of their short games are out of this world.

Their short games are the closest part of their game to any of our games. They are very much of this world.

 

My par save percentage is 54.6% in my last 20 rounds. That would put me ahead of about 20 golfers on the tour.

 

You can come up with a lot of reasons why it's not the same thing. . .they play on tougher greens, thicker rough, etc etc. But the point remains. . .it's not out of this world. It's not some invconceivable number, like "SMDH, even the worse ones are at 52%".

 

All I am saying is that there is a reason why they hit 11 GIR and shoot 70 and we hit 11 GIR and shoot 78.

 

Their misses are not as wide which certainly does help. Also their sand save % is far superior.

[eagle1997]

capitol cup update

 

per the team captains discussion last night. note: i had been a'drinking. tex probably not, but to me, he sounded like he was drunk. anyone who's actually talked to tex on the phone knows what i mean.

 

- all scramble matches will be played at scratch. no strokes for either team.

 

- slight adjustments to the singles strokes being assigned (tex and i aren't good at math).

 

- cap cup tiebreaker: if the points end up dead even after all matches have been completed, tex and i will play a 3-hole aggregate on the west course (tex gets 1 stroke). if still tied, it goes to a sudden-death playoff. people definitely can tag along and witness the trials n tribulations of said playoff if they want. no lie, as i imagine the atmosphere, i'm actually hoping for a tie so this playoff can happen. :)

 

 

with fabb's help, we should have the actual scorecards out to everyone tomorrow. thanks.

 

 

- comrade eagle

[FAbb]

You know as well as anybody how much harder it gets to shave strokes off your handicap as it gets lower, city. PGA Tour guys would be deep in plus handicap territory, based only on tournament scores. Regardless of how many advantages they have over us regular golfers, they're just better. You can give PQ all the time and money in the world for a couple years, and he still ain't making it on tour. Probably not making it much deeper into plus territory than +2-3 or so. Same for you. Same for me. Same for any other single digit I've ever played with. I just don't think we're that close to the pros.

[dcmidnight]

All I am saying is that there is a reason why they hit 11 GIR and shoot 70 and we hit 11 GIR and shoot 78.

 

I think it was last season - or two seasons ago - City pointed out sort of my "fallacy of GIR". My GIR was getting sky high (12-14) and my scores went from the low 80s to high 70s - but never much lower. The problem was I was hitting a lot of greens but playing so safe that I was 50-60 feet away from the pin. Starting to slowly come around to the fact that - situation/hazards depending - I'm just firing at the pin.

[davechen]

In the event of a sudden death playoff, whichever team captain passes out drunk first shall be declared the loser. Also, there shall be penises drawn on his face.

[pquarta1]

Okay. City says it bother me how unimpressed he is, but he was loud talking me hard last night in the Hobbit's lot, which I can only presume is an indicator of how much it bothers him that I'm impressed with professional, and top amateur competitive, golfers. No, wait, he was just talking.

 

I contend that any competitive professional golfer should impress a low capper golfer, precisely because of some of the reasons City and others have stated; to sum, we're SEEMINGLY not that far off. However, the difference between +3 or +5 and 2.0-4.0 is NOT that close. In fact, it's not even the same world. As an aside, I'll give any 5 HCPer I know 2 years of nothing but golf and they will be scratch, at best.

 

The Nationwide tour, or Web.Com, played at UMD, a course we've played from the tommies. My best round out there is 70, 1-under par. I played "perfect" golf to shoot that number, and that was a few years ago when all I did was golf and I was hovering around a 1 HCP, give or take .5. I've had very good rounds out there and shot mid-to-high 70s. The winning score out there in 2011 was -29. You read that right. Who was it you might ask? Steve Wheatcroft, a bum on the PGA tour. 155 was the worst CUT score. These are mostly guys that won't have a sniff of being much of anything out on the tour. Side note: Carlos Franco shot +1 for the week out there. Used to love that guy.

 

Professional golfers know how to "get the ball in the hole." They minimze the damage that results from the few mistakes they make. Look at JB Holmes last week. He hit a quarter of the fairways through 3 rounds and was -9. And that course has trouble everywhere. The greens were baked out and fast, and some of those pins were rough. Guys out there have a short game that would make all of us weep; you included, City. The conditions DO matter. That's not just an excuse. The greens are faster and firmer (generally) and the rough much longer. They hit the ball far and STRAIGHT (in fact, I think I recall that driving is the biggest differential between a Pro and a Scratch golfer). They hit their irons and wedges more accurately (and not by an insignificant margin). Even a few feet is worth a lot in terms of make %, as well as 3-putt %. They go entire tournaments without a bogey, or without a 3-putt, or without missing a putt inside of 10 feet. That's not impressive? C'mon, man! They make SIGNIFICANTLY more putts inside of 10 feet than anyone you know, and that's not even a question. Their misses are penalized less than our misses, and they are generally playing more difficult golf courses. Now, length matters, too. 450 yard par 4s are the norm out there, which means they have a lot of 175 yard shots, whereas we have a lot of 125 yard shots. If a pro played from 6600 yards on the easy-breezy conditions we typically play on, jesus. They'd have to suffer a concussion on the first tee to shoot over par, or play like JB Holmes did this past Sunday.

 

Are they superhuman? No. Are they insanely good at getting a golf ball in the hole? Absolutely. They are the best in the world. I am always impressed with people who are the best in the world at their craft. Peter North? Legendary. Linda Lovelace? Yeah.

 

Finally, causal rounds are NOT tournament rounds, either. I'd say add 2 to your HCP for tourney rounds and conditions. There's no gimmies, there are no strokes. These guys play worst ball and shoot mid-60s in causal rounds at their home course.

 

I've played with guys who are on the web.com, and somewhat regularly. They are light years better than anyone on here. That's just a fact. And a few of them were HORRIBLE on the Web.com tour --- like made 4 cuts out of 16. Denny is doing quite well, actually. Stilll, he'll never amount to a good PGA tour player. Doesn't hit it high enough and I don't think he putts well enough. He was one of the best players to ever come out of MD. Youngest to ever with the MD State Open, at like 16 or something.

 

Tl:dr; I am impressed by people who are the best at what they do, and you should be too.

[eagle1997]

In the event of a sudden death playoff, whichever team captain passes out drunk first shall be declared the loser. Also, there shall be penises drawn on his face.

 

forgot to mention these add ons:

 

starting on hole 1 of west course: we each do a shot of tequila on every tee box. no salt. no lemon. no chaser. just... tequila.

 

any bystanders are required to make noise, post impact. 'be somebody!' must be shouted out repeatedly.

 

auto-win if someone makes a long putt and starts breakdancing.

 

[FAbb]

[dcmidnight]

Tl:dr; City was loud talking in the Hobbits parking lot.

[pquarta1]

Tl:dr; City was loud talking in the Hobbits parking lot.

 

That too.

[TheCityGame]

I had two pints of 6.6% IPA at the bar after walking 18 holes in the heat. I'm loud, but I think I was loud for me. And PQ had me angry talking about unicorns having wings.

 

I'm sorry. Are we talking about Pegacorns or Unicorns?

 

#noWings.

[vtnerf]

For those that don't have enough appreciation of a professional golfer, play with one. Same day, same tees, same group. Don't even have to put money on it, just watch the show. I've played with guys that couldn't even get into Q school that may bore you to death until you have to pay them at the end of the round. It may look simple, but it's not.

[TheCityGame]

You hero worshipers also need to stop conflating "exceptional rounds" for "what pro golfers do".

 

You can't point to JB Holmes hitting two fairways and shooting 68 as an argument for "what pro golfers do" any more than I would for saying, "See, JB Holmes shoots 84. I could do that."

 

"They" hit about 12 greens in regulation, hit about 29 putts, and get up and down about 60% of the time. That translates to about 3.5 birdies per round and 2.5 bogeys per round. That's it. It's not hard to conceive of. It's not out of this world.

 

They do it on long courses that provide them some benefits (perfect conditions, fairways that roll, true greens) and some drawbacks (firm greens, thick rough). "Tournament pressure" is a bogeyman.

 

"Worst ball mid-60's in casual rounds" <-- let's not start pulling stuff from butts. Most of the stories I've heard about these guys playing casual rounds are nothing like that.

[vtnerf]

City, see my post above yours. It's easy to look thru the bubble at them. It's easy to say "I can hit a green from 212 too!" It's easy to laugh at them when they post 84. Go play with them, same everything. Then look at the score at the end of the day. Then decide.

[eagle1997]

city - have you ever played a round with a legit Tour Pro? as in, 'i play golf for a living' tour pro. i haven't, just curious if you have.

 

edit: dammit, nerf's reading my mind.

 

and no, this isn't a gotcha! question from me. just wondering your experience.

[TheCityGame]

For those that don't have enough appreciation of a professional golfer, play with one. Same day, same tees, same group. Don't even have to put money on it, just watch the show. I've played with guys that couldn't even get into Q school that may bore you to death until you have to pay them at the end of the round. It may look simple, but it's not.

it doesn't look simple.

 

It just doesn't look like anything except an extension of what I've seen from low handicappers.

 

When I go out and hit 70% of fairways, hit 12 greens, and stay out of trouble and shoot 76, that's a good golf round for me. And I go, "well, if that was a pro, he would have got those 6 shots closer. He would have made more putts. He would have gotten up and down from that trap."

 

But, I don't look at it and go, "I don't even understand the game they're playing."

 

Then I compare that to a bogey golfer who is hitting the ball OB, turning the sod over, 3 putting from 8 feet, hitting 3W from 160, inability to elevate or compress the ball.

 

I'm saying that my game is at least as alien to that guy as a pro would be to my game.

 

Sure, more 18 handicappers have made it to 5 than 5's to a pro, but let's stop acting like it's inconceivable what they do. You know how many times I've seen a guy hit a 320 yard drive on a 460 yard par 4 and have a wedge in? About a thousand, and counting.

 

You guys are acting like I'd LOSE MY SH1T if I saw a guy do it on 14 holes instead of 9 holes.

[FAbb]

It doesn't even have to be a tour pro. Have you ever played with a legit plus? When you get into low singles and beyond, the differences start getting harder and harder to perceive. You can sit there and think, "oh, I could hit that shot" or "he's not really hitting it much better than me" all you want, but at the end of the day, they're getting the ball in the hole in fewer strokes than you. If you were that close to as good as them, it should be pretty easy to reach their level, no? But, it's not so easy.