Groove rule question

Muirfield Willie · January 11, 2016

I had a discussion with my brother in law this weekend about the groove rule. He is attempting to take the PAT test again this spring and we got to talking about whether or not my clubs were "legal" for use by the usga. I know my eye 2s aren't but I wasn't sure if my hogan 73 apex were. Not that it matters just a conversation point we had. I've looked at the usga list and either didn't see them on it or missed them being on it.

Eidolon · January 11, 2016

Eye 2's still good due to settlement from lawsuit. PING "helped" PGA Tour out by giving relief from agreement for tour events & top USGA events only. Don't know about PAT...

NRJyzr · January 13, 2016

I don't think Eye 2's are still good, at least for the Tour, and maybe for all comps with the groove rule as a condition of competition. When the groove rule kicked in, a couple pros started using Eye2 wedges, because of the litigation settlement. There commenced a bit of negotiation, and Ping volunteered to have the Eye2 be no longer conforming under the new groove rule.

Such is how I remember it unfolding. I suppose I could look it up, but I'm only in the midst of a short break from feeding the Evil Work Beast, and must get back to it before he does more damage...

Oldplayer · January 13, 2016

I don't think Eye 2's are still good, at least for the Tour, and maybe for all comps with the groove rule as a condition of competition. When the groove rule kicked in, a couple pros started using Eye2 wedges, because of the litigation settlement. There commenced a bit of negotiation, and Ping volunteered to have the Eye2 be no longer conforming under the new groove rule.

Such is how I remember it unfolding. I suppose I could look it up, but I'm only in the midst of a short break from feeding the Evil Work Beast, and must get back to it before he does more damage...

I'm pretty sure you are correct on this.

BIG STU · January 13, 2016

This is the way I understood the rule and this was how it was explained to me.BTW this would also refer to my Macgregors as well as your 73 Apexs. If the club has not been submitted and tested and on the approved list then it is non conforming until it is submitted and tested. Technically your Hogans and my Macs IF tested would be conforming but since they are not on the conforming list as of now then they would be deemed non-conforming. On the PAT test he needs to check with his PGA section head pro.

Swingingk · January 13, 2016

I think a lot of the old ones might conform IF the oem had done a good job of pressing the grooves. So many of the vintage clubs I have are very inconsistent from one to the other in terms of grooves. You'd probably have to test and reject a bunch of the same model to get a whole set. Opinions may vary on this...

Muirfield Willie · January 13, 2016

Thanks for all the info guys. Actually the conversation we had was a "what if" scenario. The clubs he has are on the conforming grooves list. We knew that as they were checked by an official. It was basically a "I wonder if the Hogan's are conforming". Guess I should have been a little more forthcoming in my original post with that info. Anyway I did a little research and came up with nothing. Visually they look like v grooves to my untrained eye. But I couldn't find this info anywhere. Thanks to everyone again though. I guess they just don't expect anyone to use old classics anymore. Either way he wouldn't use these old blades if I held a gun to his headðŸ˜„

Eidolon · January 13, 2016

I don't think Eye 2's are still good, at least for the Tour, and maybe for all comps with the groove rule as a condition of competition. When the groove rule kicked in, a couple pros started using Eye2 wedges, because of the litigation settlement. There commenced a bit of negotiation, and Ping volunteered to have the Eye2 be no longer conforming under the new groove rule.

Such is how I remember it unfolding. I suppose I could look it up, but I'm only in the midst of a short break from feeding the Evil Work Beast, and must get back to it before he does more damage...

Eidolon · January 13, 2016

BUT, that was only for the PGA Tour. Read all the words!

NRJyzr · January 13, 2016

I did. I referenced the "condition of competition" as the questionable part :)

Eidolon · January 14, 2016

I lead to some confusion by leaving out a phrase( my head was thinking but my fingers did not type it). I meant to add "see the explanation on Ping's website. The source of my info. Sorry if I sounded like an a**. Did not mean to. It is a complicated issue with complex lingo. It has an easy fix, before sending in an entry form, just ask event manager if you can use the clubs in question. Again sorry. No harm intended.

NRJyzr · January 14, 2016

No worries, Eid :)

BIG STU · January 17, 2016

I lead to some confusion by leaving out a phrase( my head was thinking but my fingers did not type it). I meant to add "see the explanation on Ping's website. The source of my info. Sorry if I sounded like an a**. Did not mean to. It is a complicated issue with complex lingo. It has an easy fix, before sending in an entry form, just ask event manager if you can use the clubs in question. Again sorry. No harm intended.

You are correct it is confusing-- It may take a team of Philiadelphia lawyers to figgure out for sure