Need input about cellphones during tournament play.

[Forged4ever]

The other thing is, and I'll explain for those that are not familiar, however there are "Players" clubs and they run the gamete from one like ours, and while we have a reputation as a Players' club, we have never ever once recruited a Player to join.

 

It was broached in the mid 90's after our victory over Oakmont, though I was vehement that I would not be a party to a club/team like that and would resign before I'd ever Play on a team like that. I had been approached by Oakmont, and make no mistake, I'd be fighting it out with 6-8 other Pluses for the 9-10 spots or Alternate because they were stacked 8 deep with former Walker Cuppers, two had their Tour Cards and got their status back and then they had your garden variety Di Players Playing for the end of the order.

 

They were the Yankees, Red Sox and U of K of Inter-Club, lol.

 

Us and other Players clubs tend to attract decent Players and we had 3 former D1 Players on that team above though the Leaders of the team were just +2 to +3's who'd grind their a**** off and not blow themselves out of holes and matches-

 

Perfect for Match Play-

 

Hey, it wasn't always roses-

 

One year Sean beat me 7&6 and I was one over for the day-

 

Talent carried the day, hahaha

 

But the one thing was that if these guys were "off," we were good enough to take advantage and mentally, they're human and sometimes when the irons don't fly right, the putts don't fall or they start going sideways, well, it only takes a couple of holes before even the best start to press and hit "hero" shots.

 

Pete taught me that and it's one of the most critical things that he taught me.

 

Anyhoo, There are Oakmonts in every city, though being one of the top-5 in the country they can recruit nationally.

 

They automatically pay the non-resident fees and in many cases they wave the initiation for them. Who wouldn't accept that?

 

They fly in for the big matches and the Championship.

 

If ya look at the Elite Ams and the clubs that they're affiliated with, one particular Am had seven different clubs after his name seven consecutive years, LMAO

 

The life of an Elite Mid-Am is sweet

 

We are far from Elite but If nothing else, the Matches are cool, the fans come out and once in a while we got lucky, lol

 

Fairways & Greens My Friends,

RP

 

Richard:

 

Very inspiring. True leadership. Thanks for posting.

 

In our more humble team (4-ball, course vs course at scratch) around here, we have played teams that have brought in D1 players from out of state to play against us. I found it appalling to be honest. These guys did not know holes (direction, length, etc) on their "home" course - because they had never played it! Not to mention the despicable idea of bumping long time deserving members off of their own team in favor of outsiders. All this to beat us. Ego. Nothing better then beating those dudes! Love it.

 

Happy and Blessed Easter to you, Maddie and the kids.

Thoughts and Prayers,

Mark

 

EDIT: Did you use PODS?! LMAO

Thanks a lot Bro, though my thinking was at this level, scratch/Plus, it's 95%+ mental and we knew that we weren't the better Players and I had to think of a way for us to think, feel and believe that we were superior to them.

 

I'm including myself here because I mean these were Walker Cuppers for chrissakes, lol

 

That the best that I could come up with, haha-

 

But most of us weren't using carts anyway and unlike some who only use their caddies to tote bags, mine was a retired Marine Drill Sargent who is been with for 6 years including my last two Clubs and he basically was an extension of Pete, lol. I'm wrapped kinda tight and he brought me back to center if I started goin sideways, lol.

 

These were some of the greatest guys that I'd been around. Not a single "clubber" in the 9, which was funny cuz 2 walked outa the door in our first meeting. When they did, I looked at my BFF and smiled cuz I took that as a good omen, lmao-

 

I wish you a great season and may you and yours have a Blessed Easter :)

 

My Best,

Richard

[Cancun]

Richard was clear in regards to the usage of GPS and rangefinders: the ban was only for the championship flight tournaments!

 

Even when I mentioned that thoughtful and intelligent use of the phone during a round of golf seems fine to me, I understand that a competition is not like every other round and I also see the differences between the championship flight and the rest of the flights. During a tournament at that level, I'd agree that someone else should take care of the player's cell phone. He / she shouldn't be distracted (and shouldn't distract others) with the occasional email, message or phone call coming in.

 

Richard asked about the difference between a GPS/range finder and the yardage book/ pin sheet. I guess I see the difference. I like tradition and I like it when you have players walking the course and pacing distances. I’ll try to tackle Richards question:

 

First: I think the difference applies to the better players. In my case, I’d most likely score the same and save time with the range finder. For plus players, I think (correct me if I’m wrong Richard) that using the yard book helps focusing. The mindset somehow changes, making it easier to be “in the zone”. If you are driving and using a GPS it’s easier to disengage from the game, just to read the distance when you arrive to your ball. If you’re walking, you start preparing your stroke as you’re getting close to your ball. Walking gives you time to think. The yardage book gives you focus and it helps you in preparing the stroke you want to make.

 

That’s my best guess LOL… let me know if it has anything to do with that Richard LOL

 

The best to you.

 

Nice reading you Maddie!

[Mudguard]

I'm not disputing the importance of the interclub matches for you. But to have yardage books, distance markers, pin sheets and a caddie.

 

Yet to have a ban on on lasers seems hypocritical. You essentially have all the tools of a professional. I can only think of handful of golf clubs in New Zealand that would have yardage books. The only reason professionals can get by without a laser is because they have a caddie working it out for them by the time they are ready to hit.

 

Personally I find a laser essential playing a new course (which tends to happen during interclub/pennant matches). I guess you could mitigate against it by running ahead and pacing off distances. Hell people play speed golf, why not do a few extra yards.

[Forged4ever]

Richard, I never did see your answer (probably missed it), but are yardage books allowed in the championship flight?

Hey Bro, I hope all's well :)

 

Yep, books and pin sheets are fine and though I will use a pin sheet to mark out some things, I just use my book during tourneys or swats, such as the Inter-Club.

 

Have a great day!!

 

My Best,

Richard

 

Thanks RP, while I don't see any real distinction between a yardage book and rangefinder/gps, I can see where the older, established clubs would have the rule. It's almost a "throwback" type rule. Old school.

 

Since I'm basically a muni hack with no experience with the higher end clubs, is this unique to your club or are you aware of any others that are the same. The only other course that I've read much about that is a players club is Champions in Houston. Are they similar?

I would equate Champions more like Isleworth and that other one in Orlando that they play against because while it's definitely a Players Club, and I'm sure that they have serious Ams, they court the Tour Bois and Girls and give out memberships or greatly discount them. I don't know if they still do but they had an amazing roster in the 80-90's.

 

We're a country club first and foremost with a great pool, tennis court, equestrian facilities and trails and skeet. We also have a nice track/course versus Oakmont is a golf course. Their tennis and pool sucks, lol. You join Oakmont for one reason.

 

We had the second best Inter-Club team but Oakmont was a whole level or two above the rest of us, haha

 

We used to look at the Mid-Am rankings and bet each other who they were gonna bring in that year, lmao

 

I was up in that pool, lol

 

Stay Well My Friend :)

 

All the Best,

Richard

[dlamb83]

Well.....my question escalated quickly. I would love to have a accurate pin sheet and yardage book every course I play. But,I have yet to find or play a course that had either,accurate distance or a yardage book. I was merely asking for local and muni tournaments. I've been invited to some at my state level with friends and or from connections. I just wanted to be courteous to my fellow playing partner(s)

 

Im not playing intra course players champions. Just tournaments to get the blood flowing again per se. Haven't played tournaments since high school. I'm at point in life I can actually play again a lot. Figured why not and give some tournaments a whirl.

 

Thank you to Richard as he is a purist from I can tell in his posts. Some out there I may encounter playing along side of. If someone ends up having an issue with the phone,I'll just turn it off and use my actual skycaddie device. I'm more than respectful to fellow player partner(s)

[Forged4ever]

Richard was clear in regards to the usage of GPS and rangefinders: the ban was only for the championship flight tournaments!

 

Even when I mentioned that thoughtful and intelligent use of the phone during a round of golf seems fine to me, I understand that a competition is not like every other round and I also see the differences between the championship flight and the rest of the flights. During a tournament at that level, I'd agree that someone else should take care of the player's cell phone. He / she shouldn't be distracted (and shouldn't distract others) with the occasional email, message or phone call coming in.

 

Richard asked about the difference between a GPS/range finder and the yardage book/ pin sheet. I guess I see the difference. I like tradition and I like it when you have players walking the course and pacing distances. I’ll try to tackle Richards question:

 

First: I think the difference applies to the better players. In my case, I’d most likely score the same and save time with the range finder. For plus players, I think (correct me if I’m wrong Richard) that using the yard book helps focusing. The mindset somehow changes, making it easier to be “in the zone”. If you are driving and using a GPS it’s easier to disengage from the game, just to read the distance when you arrive to your ball. If you’re walking, you start preparing your stroke as you’re getting close to your ball. Walking gives you time to think. The yardage book gives you focus and it helps you in preparing the stroke you want to make.

 

That’s my best guess LOL… let me know if it has anything to do with that Richard LOL

 

The best to you.

 

Nice reading you Maddie!

Bro, YOU NAILED IT!!!

 

That's it exactly!!!

 

The second and minor reason though a few guys told me that it gave them the confidence to literally look at their FC's from Oakmont and laugh because of what we had discussed in our meetings and they believed that they had the mental "edge."

 

I just believe that at the Plus and Pro level, it's 95%+ mental and I will do anything within the rules and etiquette of the game to give myself and my teammates that mental edge-

 

Who cares if it's bulls*** as this obviously was, I had myself convinced as did my teammates that we had the "edge" over our FC's

 

Confidence is everything-

 

One guy was 3 down to Nathan(this was a young Nathan, nothing even remotely close to the Nathan circa 2002 on) standing on #8 tee and I walked across from the prior green and asked him how he felt and he smiled, winked and said, "It's time to start Playing," and he stuck a 3i from 218, buried an 8' bird putt and would win 4 of the next 5 and would close Nathan out on 17.

 

I know for me and most Players that I've Played with have said that it is much easier to get into a good rhythm walking from shot to shot and it's also easier for me to focus in on my next swing and shot.

 

I also wanted them to focus in on the shot more by using the "old school" methods for yardage versus aim and click. I find that it made it easier to take in more of my surroundings when I use markers, trees, bushes etc., versus when I just aim the laser and click. It all goes into my PSR and helps me FEEL the swing, distance and shot that I need to produce.

 

To a Man, they said that it helped them do the same-

 

Great post Cans!!!

 

I wish you and yours a Blessed Easter Bro :)

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend,

Richard

[Forged4ever]

I'm not disputing the importance of the interclub matches for you. But to have yardage books, distance markers, pin sheets and a caddie.

 

Yet to have a ban on on lasers seems hypocritical. You essentially have all the tools of a professional. I can only think of handful of golf clubs in New Zealand that would have yardage books. The only reason professionals can get by without a laser is because they have a caddie working it out for them by the time they are ready to hit.

 

Personally I find a laser essential playing a new course (which tends to happen during interclub/pennant matches). I guess you could mitigate against it by running ahead and pacing off distances. Hell people play speed golf, why not do a few extra yards.

Bro, I've Played more "new" courses than I can even remember and shot par or better more times than I can remember with nothing more than a caddie and the markers on the course, or lack there of and nothing more. No books, no sheets, nothing but my sticks, some tees and some balls.

 

Ya see, I and a lot of guys got to plus without the gadgets and I'm not putting them down, I just didn't need em, didn't use em and sure it might have cost me a shot here or there but so does a bad swing and I've gotten more than I've given away.

 

The only flight that adhered to these rules was the Championship Flight, and at our club the Championship Flight Tournaments, aside from some nice crystal and silver, is there to prepare us for the Inter-Club...

 

If someone wants to play for s**** & giggles, we've got the first flight plus four more that allow carts, lasers and GPS, and hell, one flight even allows the anchored putting stroke, lol

 

Now THAT'S hypocritical, but there are some great guys in that flight who wouldn't be out there if not for the stroke-

 

Thanks much for your views and opinions Bro, we might be on different sides of the table on this however I'd enjoy the hell out of planting the tee with ya :)

 

Stay Well My Friend,

RP

[Forged4ever]

Well.....my question escalated quickly. I would love to have a accurate pin sheet and yardage book every course I play. But,I have yet to find or play a course that had either,accurate distance or a yardage book. I was merely asking for local and muni tournaments. I've been invited to some at my state level with friends and or from connections. I just wanted to be courteous to my fellow playing partner(s)

 

Im not playing intra course players champions. Just tournaments to get the blood flowing again per se. Haven't played tournaments since high school. I'm at point in life I can actually play again a lot. Figured why not and give some tournaments a whirl.

 

Thank you to Richard as he is a purist from I can tell in his posts. Some out there I may encounter playing along side of. If someone ends up having an issue with the phone,I'll just turn it off and use my actual skycaddie device. I'm more than respectful to fellow player partner(s)

Regarding the phone I could care less as long as they use common courtesy-

 

My dad???

 

He's an idiot ;)

 

Fairways & Greens My Friend,

RP

[BIG STU]

I love the old school approach as I am bit of a traditionalist (not just with golf, but with all sports).

 

HOWEVER...........

 

Most public courses these days do a lousy job with yardage markers. You typically get a 200, 150 and 100 yard plate in the center of the fairway. Sprinkler heads with numbers? Good luck finding those at most courses. And the plates only give you the yardage to the center, not the front or back of the green.

 

Yardage books? Some courses have them here and there but they certainly aren't the norm anymore. Pin sheets? Yeah right.

 

And if you're just playing one-day tournaments at random courses, you don't have the luxury of playing multiple rounds there to make a yardage book.

 

When you belong to a club and play the course all the time and that course is well-marked and has pin sheets and everything, that's a different story.

 

But I think the OP is talking about one-day tournaments at random courses with lousy yardage markers and no available yardage books or pin sheets.

 

What's the difference between looking at a GPS or looking at a yardage book? A GPS is basically just a digital yardage book. You just don't have to pace anything off is all.

 

As long as you aren't measuring slope or wind, use whatever you want to get the numbers you need -- GPS, phone, laser.

Agree with you on one thing yardage markers are getting as scarace as Hen's teeth on many of the courses in this area. I talked to one Super about that and he told me that was one way to save money that most folks have a Laser or GPS any how especially the tourists. Most of them do not sell yardage books any more either for the same reasons according to my GM they simply do not sell any more. I think sadly in the future you will see less and less yardage markers out on public courses

[BIG STU]

Well.....my question escalated quickly. I would love to have a accurate pin sheet and yardage book every course I play. But,I have yet to find or play a course that had either,accurate distance or a yardage book. I was merely asking for local and muni tournaments. I've been invited to some at my state level with friends and or from connections. I just wanted to be courteous to my fellow playing partner(s)

 

Im not playing intra course players champions. Just tournaments to get the blood flowing again per se. Haven't played tournaments since high school. I'm at point in life I can actually play again a lot. Figured why not and give some tournaments a whirl.

 

Thank you to Richard as he is a purist from I can tell in his posts. Some out there I may encounter playing along side of. If someone ends up having an issue with the phone,I'll just turn it off and use my actual skycaddie device. I'm more than respectful to fellow player partner(s)

Regarding the phone I could care less as long as they use common courtesy-

 

My dad???

 

He's an idiot ;)

 

Fairways & Greens My Friend,

RP

I absolutely refuse to carry a cell phone on the course period. If I do it is turned OFF period!

 

Someone asked well what if your wife needed to get in touch with you? I told them #1 she knows what course I am at and if something that bad pops up she can call the pro shop and they can come and get me. Any one else can fricking wait until I get through playing period.

 

I may be a little hard lined on this but it is one of the things in life I drew my line in the sand about a couple of years ago when I got out of the towing business. Now I can certainly see it for someone like RP's Dad who is a Doctor or for someone who is a Minister etc but not ME! If it does not pertain to my wife or little dog then it can wait!

[KevCarter]

 

I absolutely refuse to carry a cell phone on the course period. If I do it is turned OFF period!

 

...

 

A lot of absolutes and periods, with exceptions... :D

[bbthorn]

To the OP I use the same set-up on my phone. I do turn the ringer off and will not talk on my phone during the round. I see no difference between phone, GPS, laser, or yardage book. They all provide outside information. In my opinion if one is banned they all should be banned.

[finleysg]

The Minnesota Golf Association does not allow phone based GPS apps in their championships, but I can't remember Minnesota Public Golf Association calling out phones specifically. From my last two events last year (Notice to Competitors):

 

MGA

"ELECTRONIC MEASURING DEVICES: Per the MGA policy, these devices are permitted in all MGA championship competitions. However, smartphone-based GPS applications are not permitted."

 

MPGA

"USGA rules govern all play except as amended by the committee. Rangefinders may be used for distance measurements only."

 

On a related note, I think it's interesting that in the early days of the USGA, they didn't allow any kind of distance indicators on the golf course: stakes, plates, trees, etc. You were expected to judge distances by sight only.

[KevCarter]

The Minnesota Golf Association does not allow phone based GPS apps in their championships, but I can't remember Minnesota Public Golf Association calling out phones specifically. From my last two events last year (Notice to Competitors):

 

MGA

"ELECTRONIC MEASURING DEVICES: Per the MGA policy, these devices are permitted in all MGA championship competitions. However, smartphone-based GPS applications are not permitted."

 

MPGA

"USGA rules govern all play except as amended by the committee. Rangefinders may be used for distance measurements only."

 

On a related note, I think it's interesting that in the early days of the USGA, they didn't allow any kind of distance indicators on the golf course: stakes, plates, trees, etc. You were expected to judge distances by sight only.

 

It will be interesting to see if they allow phones in 2016 with the more flexible rules change...

[Newby]

The Minnesota Golf Association does not allow phone based GPS apps in their championships, but I can't remember Minnesota Public Golf Association calling out phones specifically. From my last two events last year (Notice to Competitors):

 

MGA

"ELECTRONIC MEASURING DEVICES: Per the MGA policy, these devices are permitted in all MGA championship competitions. However, smartphone-based GPS applications are not permitted."

 

I seem to remember a few years ago the USGA & R&A ruled that banning a particular form of measuring device was not permitted as it would contravene 33-1

[finleysg]

The Minnesota Golf Association does not allow phone based GPS apps in their championships, but I can't remember Minnesota Public Golf Association calling out phones specifically. From my last two events last year (Notice to Competitors):

 

MGA

"ELECTRONIC MEASURING DEVICES: Per the MGA policy, these devices are permitted in all MGA championship competitions. However, smartphone-based GPS applications are not permitted."

 

MPGA

"USGA rules govern all play except as amended by the committee. Rangefinders may be used for distance measurements only."

 

On a related note, I think it's interesting that in the early days of the USGA, they didn't allow any kind of distance indicators on the golf course: stakes, plates, trees, etc. You were expected to judge distances by sight only.

 

It will be interesting to see if they allow phones in 2016 with the more flexible rules change...

 

I haven't heard rumors of any change, but I'm not dialed into the inner workings of the rules committee. I'll find out in May so long as I follow through on trying to qualify for the Sr. Players. Doesn't make much difference to me in any case because I prefer my Bushnell.