Confessions 12 --- Exploding Heads

[Palauan Hammer]

Brooke Henderson is 5'4", and uses a 48" driver. She's obviously doing something right......I'd doubt she picked it up in the I&A

 

I ran into Brooke walking through the pro shop, we exchanged hello's, and man, she is over the top cute. And I'm understating it a lot..

 

Wonder if she ever got my text??? :D Pshhhh I wish LOL

 

Your a lucky man Thug! I really need to out to an LPGA event, to see for myself. And all joking aside, I really enjoy watching the LPGA more than the PGA. The women really get the most of out their swings, meaning they have to really use everything efficiently. Much to learn, and easy on the eyes too I guess haha (guilty) :)

[jbhawx]

One issue I find in my swing at times is knee flex. As I rotate back I'll essentially squat a little, as if my left knee flexes more as I rotate and I somehow try to keep the same flex in the right knee. This usually always results in a fat shot, or a topped ball if during the downswing I try to revert back to my orginal knee flex (I guess like popping up). good thing is, it doesn't happen often.

[Matt J]

Headed over to have the Steelfiber / MP-60 heads mated by a "master clubfitter" in my community.

 

Don't know if I'll have him build the whole set, or just build one and see what it swingweights and assume the rest will be pretty close then glue them myself.

 

We haven't talked rate yet, so that will probably factor in to the equation. He bought one of those frequency measuring machines for shafts and a bunch of other do-dads and is supposedly pretty good, so if his price is reasonable I might just let him build them. My right forearm has been in a lot of pain lately so I'll be pretty pleased if this helps. It would be funny to have them kick these Miuras out of the bag, ultimately if the shafts give decent ball flight then I'll probably pull them from the 60's and put them in the CB's.

[mdgboxx]

 

 

Dirty???????

 

I'm neither blind or dead, yet

 

I can dream and appreciate nice things, even if they just happen to be pretty.

 

I confess, I am a regular visitor in Argone's LPGA thread. I'm I confessing because I have remorse? Noooooooo, at this point in time, I don't give a damn!

 

 

TOOL

 

And just WHAT are you dreaming, might I ask? LOL

 

Argonne's thread is VERY popular with old men haha. I confess I have looked in

there from time to time......to read of course, not look......you know. :shok:

 

This is confessions, you can ask anything!!!

 

When the dream gets too taunting I surf funny sites, just for laugh!

 

Just remember those sites will follow you here......just in case you start seeing

ads for Asian women. :busted_cop:....don't start a thread blaming WRX.

 

Haha!

 

I have an excellent internal firewall. No worries.

[scotee]

Seeing them in person is totally different. Next month, the Web guys are coming here. I'm going to go on a Thursday. There'll be fewer people there. I hope to grab a good spot on the range and just watch. In person, they are still smooth but you get a better perspective on how fast they swing.

 

The speeding up the arms thing is confusing to me. I understand the premise but don't think speeding up the arms is the solution. I have a ton of thoughts on this but it leads to a lot of opinion on rhythm, tempo, setup and transition. Not to mention hip stall and connection.

 

I believe Michele Wie is more obvious. Even in some commercials that she made, you can clearly see her hips snap forward as she's about to or at impact. Some of the smaller, thinner Koreans do it too.

 

The old hip power thrust. She makes videos of it?? Hmmm...and thin Korean girls??

You like NYC? You're a dirty old man mdg. :cheesy:

 

Dirty???????

 

I'm neither blind or dead, yet

 

I can dream and appreciate nice things, even if they just happen to be pretty.

 

I confess, I am a regular visitor in Argone's LPGA thread. I'm I confessing because I have remorse? Noooooooo, at this point in time, I don't give a damn!

 

 

TOOL

 

And just WHAT are you dreaming, might I ask? LOL

 

Argonne's thread is VERY popular with old men haha. I confess I have looked in

there from time to time......to read of course, not look......you know. :shok:

 

Just for the articles. Playboy RIP

[DeNinny]

One issue I find in my swing at times is knee flex. As I rotate back I'll essentially squat a little, as if my left knee flexes more as I rotate and I somehow try to keep the same flex in the right knee. This usually always results in a fat shot, or a topped ball if during the downswing I try to revert back to my orginal knee flex (I guess like popping up). good thing is, it doesn't happen often.

 

If you try to maintain the same knee flex as you turn the hips, by the physics you will drop in height. Each hip is closest to its respective knee when both hips and knees are square. As soon as you turn the hips to be at an angle to the knees, that distance lengthens, so in order to keep the hips at the same height as you turn them, you actually have to straighten both legs.

[mdgboxx]

For our eyes only, I dare anyone to find any flaw(s) in that swing, and not be labeled a D1ck!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=165Vym9ueCA

[mdgboxx]

One issue I find in my swing at times is knee flex. As I rotate back I'll essentially squat a little, as if my left knee flexes more as I rotate and I somehow try to keep the same flex in the right knee. This usually always results in a fat shot, or a topped ball if during the downswing I try to revert back to my orginal knee flex (I guess like popping up). good thing is, it doesn't happen often.

 

If you try to maintain the same knee flex as you turn the hips, by the physics you will drop in height. Each hip is closest to its respective knee when both hips and knees are square. As soon as you turn the hips to be at an angle to the knees, that distance lengthens,​ so in order to keep the hips at the same height as you turn them, you actually have to straighten both legs.

 

I'm trying to picture this in my mind, it doesn't seem to compute. Unless you mean "not at the same time"

 

My lead knee may move to my lead foot instep, in the BS, then on the DS, my trail leg (hip turn/snap) will straightened (pushing my hips forward) THEN, at/past impact, my lead leg will be forced to straighten as I transfer.

 

What am I missing? :dntknw:

[DeNinny]

One issue I find in my swing at times is knee flex. As I rotate back I'll essentially squat a little, as if my left knee flexes more as I rotate and I somehow try to keep the same flex in the right knee. This usually always results in a fat shot, or a topped ball if during the downswing I try to revert back to my orginal knee flex (I guess like popping up). good thing is, it doesn't happen often.

 

If you try to maintain the same knee flex as you turn the hips, by the physics you will drop in height. Each hip is closest to its respective knee when both hips and knees are square. As soon as you turn the hips to be at an angle to the knees, that distance lengthens,​ so in order to keep the hips at the same height as you turn them, you actually have to straighten both legs.

 

I'm trying to picture this in my mind, it doesn't seem to compute. Unless you mean "not at the same time"

 

My lead knee may move to my lead foot instep, in the BS, then on the DS, my trail leg (hip turn/snap) will straightened (pushing my hips forward) THEN, at/past impact, my lead leg will be forced to straighten as I transfer.

 

What am I missing? :dntknw:

 

I don't mean that the legs fully straighten. I just mean they have to flex LESS (just a little) as the hips turn in order to keep the hips at the same height. As the hips turn at the same height, they get a little farther away from each respective knee.

 

Take a flat dollar bill. Then start twisting it in opposite directions at each end. What happens? Answer: the ends get closer together.

[mdgboxx]

One issue I find in my swing at times is knee flex. As I rotate back I'll essentially squat a little, as if my left knee flexes more as I rotate and I somehow try to keep the same flex in the right knee. This usually always results in a fat shot, or a topped ball if during the downswing I try to revert back to my orginal knee flex (I guess like popping up). good thing is, it doesn't happen often.

 

If you try to maintain the same knee flex as you turn the hips, by the physics you will drop in height. Each hip is closest to its respective knee when both hips and knees are square. As soon as you turn the hips to be at an angle to the knees, that distance lengthens,​ so in order to keep the hips at the same height as you turn them, you actually have to straighten both legs.

 

I'm trying to picture this in my mind, it doesn't seem to compute. Unless you mean "not at the same time"

 

My lead knee may move to my lead foot instep, in the BS, then on the DS, my trail leg (hip turn/snap) will straightened (pushing my hips forward) THEN, at/past impact, my lead leg will be forced to straighten as I transfer.

 

What am I missing? :dntknw:

 

I don't mean that the legs fully straighten. I just mean they have to flex LESS (just a little) as the hips turn in order to keep the hips at the same height. As the hips turn at the same height, they get a little farther away from each respective knee.

 

Take a flat dollar bill. Then start twisting it in opposite directions at each end. What happens? Answer: the ends get closer together.

 

Hawwww, I got it! :yahoo:

 

Just tried it. In the BS, as my hips turn to the trail side, (load) my trail knee *does* straighten up a bit.

 

Seeeeee, that was easy! :victory:

 

No exploding heads in this class. :taunt:

[DeNinny]

One issue I find in my swing at times is knee flex. As I rotate back I'll essentially squat a little, as if my left knee flexes more as I rotate and I somehow try to keep the same flex in the right knee. This usually always results in a fat shot, or a topped ball if during the downswing I try to revert back to my orginal knee flex (I guess like popping up). good thing is, it doesn't happen often.

 

If you try to maintain the same knee flex as you turn the hips, by the physics you will drop in height. Each hip is closest to its respective knee when both hips and knees are square. As soon as you turn the hips to be at an angle to the knees, that distance lengthens,​ so in order to keep the hips at the same height as you turn them, you actually have to straighten both legs.

 

I'm trying to picture this in my mind, it doesn't seem to compute. Unless you mean "not at the same time"

 

My lead knee may move to my lead foot instep, in the BS, then on the DS, my trail leg (hip turn/snap) will straightened (pushing my hips forward) THEN, at/past impact, my lead leg will be forced to straighten as I transfer.

 

What am I missing? :dntknw:

 

I don't mean that the legs fully straighten. I just mean they have to flex LESS (just a little) as the hips turn in order to keep the hips at the same height. As the hips turn at the same height, they get a little farther away from each respective knee.

 

Take a flat dollar bill. Then start twisting it in opposite directions at each end. What happens? Answer: the ends get closer together.

 

Hawwww, I got it! :yahoo:

 

Just tried it. In the BS, as my hips turn to the trail side, (load) my trail knee *does* straighten up a bit.

 

Seeeeee, that was easy! :victory:

 

No exploding heads in this class. :taunt:

 

And the lead leg also has to add some 'length'. Sometimes the lead heel raises. Sometimes the lead knee kicks inward.

[mdgboxx]

 

 

If you try to maintain the same knee flex as you turn the hips, by the physics you will drop in height. Each hip is closest to its respective knee when both hips and knees are square. As soon as you turn the hips to be at an angle to the knees, that distance lengthens,​ so in order to keep the hips at the same height as you turn them, you actually have to straighten both legs.

 

I'm trying to picture this in my mind, it doesn't seem to compute. Unless you mean "not at the same time"

 

My lead knee may move to my lead foot instep, in the BS, then on the DS, my trail leg (hip turn/snap) will straightened (pushing my hips forward) THEN, at/past impact, my lead leg will be forced to straighten as I transfer.

 

What am I missing? :dntknw:

 

I don't mean that the legs fully straighten. I just mean they have to flex LESS (just a little) as the hips turn in order to keep the hips at the same height. As the hips turn at the same height, they get a little farther away from each respective knee.

 

Take a flat dollar bill. Then start twisting it in opposite directions at each end. What happens? Answer: the ends get closer together.

 

Hawwww, I got it! :yahoo:

 

Just tried it. In the BS, as my hips turn to the trail side, (load) my trail knee *does* straighten up a bit.

 

Seeeeee, that was easy! :victory:

 

No exploding heads in this class. :taunt:

 

And the lead leg also has to add some 'length'. Sometimes the lead heel raises. Sometimes the lead knee kicks inward.

 

That one, I had. Thx

[thug the bunny]

Brooke Henderson is 5'4", and uses a 48" driver. She's obviously doing something right......I'd doubt she picked it up in the I&A

 

I ran into Brooke walking through the pro shop, we exchanged hello's, and man, she is over the top cute. And I'm understating it a lot..

 

Wonder if she ever got my text??? :D Pshhhh I wish LOL

 

Your a lucky man Thug! I really need to out to an LPGA event, to see for myself. And all joking aside, I really enjoy watching the LPGA more than the PGA. The women really get the most of out their swings, meaning they have to really use everything efficiently. Much to learn, and easy on the eyes too I guess haha (guilty) :)

 

That is one of the great things about the LPGA, you can really get up close and personal, on the grounds, in the grill room, and on the course during the weekdays, especially if you are a volunteer. Last year on Thurs (pro-am), I was looking for mrs thug and she texted me that she was marshalling on 14 tee. I walked up and Sandra Gal was standing there waiting to tee off, but before thugette could say anything Sandra said hello to me. I said Hi Sandra, how are you doing, and we exchanged pleasantries, and I wished her well during the tournament, and she said thank you. I was a little weak in the knees and I'm sure I was totally fawning on her. Then I was like, oh, hi honey. She pretty much gave me a pass for ignoring her and acting like a girl who just met Ricky Fowler..

[Reasonability]

It's trendy to talk about "shallow" and getting things to "match".

 

Actually - they're pretty cool concepts.

 

The problem with such concepts is they become a circular argument. The parts have to match but the thousands of individual combinations and individuality means there are no concrete answers to HOW to get the parts to match. But the parts have to match. But its individual - but they need to match - but.....

 

"I need to shallow". COOL! I bet you do. Shallow what exactly? How do you plan to do that? You guessed it.... by getting the parts to match.

 

We may as well be hearing.... "trust me" Great! I want to do that - I promise I do. But I never will when told to get shallow - once the parts match - and all deeper questions as to HOW are met with - trust me - or "don't think about it just do it. Glad to --- DO WHAT?

 

Sorry - Some of what I'm pointing out is NOT aimed at anyone here specifically. This isn't about anyone specifically at all. Instead it's about my own reactions to wanting to know HOW to actionably apply these trendy terms that lead us no where other in the same circle.

 

These trendy circular arguments are just not good enough for me personally. I want to know concrete HOW parts and WHY parts of the equation. More from me in a bit about knee work. But what we are actually doing here on this topic is getting some parts to match. We are actually discussing right out loud HOW and why... as opposed to "trust me" and "just do it". If I could "just do it" I absolutely would have by now. I get it that for some they can just sit in front of a piano and play Mozart. They can just do it. I can't just do that. And if parts are supposed to match - someone had better start naming five or ten of them that need to match or bury that phrase --- and take "shallow" with it on the way out of the door. LOL

 

(fist bang - neck vein - red faced - hair pull - scream - shout - rant..... to be continued.

 

and the people said.....

[Michael C.]

Brooke Henderson is 5'4", and uses a 48" driver. She's obviously doing something right......I'd doubt she picked it up in the I&A

 

I ran into Brooke walking through the pro shop, we exchanged hello's, and man, she is over the top cute. And I'm understating it a lot..

 

Wonder if she ever got my text??? :D Pshhhh I wish LOL

 

Your a lucky man Thug! I really need to out to an LPGA event, to see for myself. And all joking aside, I really enjoy watching the LPGA more than the PGA. The women really get the most of out their swings, meaning they have to really use everything efficiently. Much to learn, and easy on the eyes too I guess haha (guilty) :)

 

That is one of the great things about the LPGA, you can really get up close and personal, on the grounds, in the grill room, and on the course during the weekdays, especially if you are a volunteer. Last year on Thurs (pro-am), I was looking for mrs thug and she texted me that she was marshalling on 14 tee. I walked up and Sandra Gal was standing there waiting to tee off, but before thugette could say anything Sandra said hello to me. I said Hi Sandra, how are you doing, and we exchanged pleasantries, and I wished her well during the tournament, and she said thank you. I was a little weak in the knees and I'm sure I was totally fawning on her. Then I was like, oh, hi honey. She pretty much gave me a pass for ignoring her and acting like a girl who just met Ricky Fowler..

 

Thug, ain't it funny how as a grown man you can know that we're all just people and we're past the point of being star struck and then, Sandra Gal initiates a conversation and the face gets flushed and the hearts starts racing and we're just proud of ourselves that we found the words...any words....to respond coherently. Lol. Life is amusing.

[Conrad1953]

I think "shallow" has some fine distinctions as well or rather the need

for being shallow. In the case of hitting the ball off a tee or fluffly lie,

we can be very shallow, even have a positive angle of attack....and that

is what is normally desired...to impart the most forward momentum

to the ball.

 

In the case of hitting the ball off the ground we still have not quite solved

the riddle of whether a ball can be pinched between the iron face and the

ground. I have read very convincing posts that have come down on opposite

sides of that fence. So far, I have not seen anything conclusive either way

though admittedly I have not investigated the matter of late.

 

So, the question; how shallow need we be with an iron or wedge hitting a

ball sitting on the ground? It seems we have some leeway there and possibly

don't have to be so shallow......or maybe we do. I have not seen a high speed

still yet that shows a ball compressed on the side facing the ground. Maybe

somebody can find one and we can put this to rest. It would be nice to know;

conclusively.

 

The "HOW" of shallow to me is not as complicated. In order for us to swing

fast enough we must reduce the MOI of our swing on the downswing.This in turn

shortens the swing arc as we pull everything in closer to our swing center.

 

The shortened swing arc gives us less space and less time to be shallow on our

approach to the ball. In my mind we offset this by getting lower on our trail side

as we approach the ball.This lowering (secondary tilt) gets us back shallow again

since we have lost the width in the downswing; in order to swing fast enough.

 

So that we don't hit the ground before the ball we must also shallow the shaft,

a different kind of shallowing. The "HOW" to in shallowing the shaft has many

answers I am sure. For me, letting the lead forearm rotate on the backswing

will shallow the shaft and NOT letting that forearm rotate back on the downswing

will keep it shallow.

 

I am sure there are many answers that will fit many different people but for me

the simple way is to set up with secondary tilt and maintain it throughout the swing

and to rotate the lead forearm on the back swing to shallow the shaft and KEEP

it shallow. Those 2 HOWs are what works for me. Others may do it differently. :)

[Reasonability]

OK - being all alone this late night... Let's see if we can make some parts "match" and while we're at it we might even "shallow" something. And versus saying "trust me" or "just do it and not over-think it".... I can only assume those who's parts all match and can just do it are already moving on since this one would be both boring - and not worth investigating. Hats off (not in cynical but very sincere tone) to all those in the enviable spot of having beautifully matched parts.

 

Let's tie knee work - hip turn depth - and shoulder turn plane. Lets make them "match" and then rather than say just do it lets unpack HOW - and then you can decide if you trust me or not.

 

Your spine is tilted enough to be able to reach the handle of that stick at address. If you lift up out of that posture - if you dip the chest or head down deeper once in motion - or sway around left and right - then some kind of "parts" had now better NOT match or you will whiff that ball as sure as you're reading this.

 

So since your shoulders are already sitting there on either side of a spine that's tilted from the get-go.... you can decide if you'd rather twirl them level to the horizon.... OR...turn the lead shoulder down and around whilst the trail shoulder moves up and around the other way. So in effect you have this simple option to pick one or the other. Well NOW we get our first real whack at making some parts match.

 

IF - you love to turn your shoulders level to the horizon and don't feel like changing that... go for it. But then explain to me how the heck you intend to arrive at the top AND notice how in doing so you just scrunched your trail side shoulder blade down toward your trail hip pocket when doing so. You address spine just went wandering off in a direction that's anything but "stable". Now you can if you want deepen the trail side hip turn depth by squatting your knees or you can try dipping the head and neck downward in the attempt to keep you head still - but you successfully (no matter what parts you try to match) just smashed your trail shoulder blade downward while lifting your sternum up and out of the shot. Try all you want your trail knee is gong to want to drift out laterally over your trail foot and your weight will invariably want to roll to the outside of that foot as you get to the top.

 

OR - you can simply choose another way of turning the shoulders. Let them turn like a "unit" - the lead shoulder a little more down and a bit more under the chin with the trail shoulder moving up and behind the neck. NOW - the trail shoulder is not going to scrunch downward into the trail hip PROVIDED that the very hip is allowed to respond to and get pulled into this shoulder turn action.

 

As was pointed out earlier by DeNinny - the trail knee is going to need to lose some of its bend or flex that was there at address cause the hip is now moving back rather than laterally or sitting there locked up. The address spine posture can now be MUCH better preserved which directly equates to the word "stability". If that trail knee is gently and gradually losing some of its original flex and that knee is not drifting out over the trail foot - THEN that improved shoulder turn can operate smoothly - pain free - and get all the way to the top of the backswing while in the address posture.

 

So there! we just made some parts match. The shoulders turn ideally not level with the horizon but perpendicularly to the address spine. The can rotate in response to the this better shoulder turn by paying attention to a slightly stiffening knee ( and how much that stiffening or how little is just the amount needed to LET the trail hip drift back behind the trail heel a bit to prevent this possible issue where the trail shoulder squashed down into the trail hip. The address spine owes a lot of its stability in getting to the top of the backswing thanks to THESE PARTS matching:

 

1) Shoulder turn plane

2( Trail side knee work (inside the trail instep and slightly stiffening)

3) Letting the hips respond naturally to the shoulder turn - they WILL get pulled into action and the hips need not lock up or freeze up.

 

What happens when these parts match?

 

We are not in a painful, back-breaking pose at the top. We can shift the focus to the starting grip and posture so that this original address posture can move at least from address to the top well (aka not applying all this to a bad staring posture). We can then work on transition and the through swing knowing the trip from setup to the top is truly a battle being won. We didn't have to worry about a "still head" cause the shoulders turned around a basically stable spine and chest so the head just went along for the ride. We can work on how the structure of the arms and hands and elbow "parts" all work just exactly by identifying the two or three choices we make with those parts. And when we do - the club shaft will not need to lay down flat or stand up vertically on the way down from the top and when THAT happens around this stable spine - swing "plane" is FAR less of an issue to worry about - and there will be a shallower angle of attack. That whole "shallow" buzz word just got a huge and consequential boost in the process. LOTS OF DOORS will then open from start to the finish pose. All because....

 

THREE key parts just got matched - along with HOW to do it - WHY it should be done. What did the actionable pieces of the puzzle come down to? The trail knee - the shoulder turn plane - and letting the hips respond. Give me about 25 to 100 reps in front of mirror or at the range just feeling and rehearsing this stuff for a couple of weeks. That will become the way I relate to swinging it. The feel golfer gets his steak dinner so I don't have to think through all this matching parts stuff once a scorecard is in my pocket.

 

Do this all need very similar and supporting approaches to finding that best grip and setup posture to kick all this off? Are there better ways to get "parts to match" from that better address to the top of the backswing? Would our individual body types, flexibility, and other physical factors shape strong measure of individuality into it all? SURE but the parts do need to match right? LOL either they do or they don't.

[Palauan Hammer]

Brooke Henderson is 5'4", and uses a 48" driver. She's obviously doing something right......I'd doubt she picked it up in the I&A

 

I ran into Brooke walking through the pro shop, we exchanged hello's, and man, she is over the top cute. And I'm understating it a lot..

 

Wonder if she ever got my text??? :D Pshhhh I wish LOL

 

Your a lucky man Thug! I really need to out to an LPGA event, to see for myself. And all joking aside, I really enjoy watching the LPGA more than the PGA. The women really get the most of out their swings, meaning they have to really use everything efficiently. Much to learn, and easy on the eyes too I guess haha (guilty) :)

 

That is one of the great things about the LPGA, you can really get up close and personal, on the grounds, in the grill room, and on the course during the weekdays, especially if you are a volunteer. Last year on Thurs (pro-am), I was looking for mrs thug and she texted me that she was marshalling on 14 tee. I walked up and Sandra Gal was standing there waiting to tee off, but before thugette could say anything Sandra said hello to me. I said Hi Sandra, how are you doing, and we exchanged pleasantries, and I wished her well during the tournament, and she said thank you. I was a little weak in the knees and I'm sure I was totally fawning on her. Then I was like, oh, hi honey. She pretty much gave me a pass for ignoring her and acting like a girl who just met Ricky Fowler..

 

Thug, ain't it funny how as a grown man you can know that we're all just people and we're past the point of being star struck and then, Sandra Gal initiates a conversation and the face gets flushed and the hearts starts racing and we're just proud of ourselves that we found the words...any words....to respond coherently. Lol. Life is amusing.

 

Sounds like fun Thug!

 

I'm sure I could find words, probably too many of them LOL That being said, I would never directly hit on a player at the tournament, I'd yell fore first :D Seriously though, I would love to watch the women play, whether anyone says hi to me or not.

[Palauan Hammer]

OK - being all alone this late night... Let's see if we can make some parts "match" and while we're at it we might even "shallow" something. And versus saying "trust me" or "just do it and not over-think it".... I can only assume those who's parts all match and can just do it are already moving on since this one would be both boring - and not worth investigating. Hats off (not in cynical but very sincere tone) to all those in the enviable spot of having beautifully matched parts.

 

Let's tie knee work - hip turn depth - and shoulder turn plane. Lets make them "match" and then rather than say just do it lets unpack HOW - and then you can decide if you trust me or not.

 

Your spine is tilted enough to be able to reach the handle of that stick at address. If you lift up out of that posture - if you dip the chest or head down deeper once in motion - or sway around left and right - then some kind of "parts" had now better NOT match or you will whiff that ball as sure as you're reading this.

 

So since your shoulders are already sitting there on either side of a spine that's tilted from the get-go.... you can decide if you'd rather twirl them level to the horizon.... OR...turn the lead shoulder down and around whilst the trail shoulder moves up and around the other way. So in effect you have this simple option to pick one or the other. Well NOW we get our first real whack at making some parts match.

 

IF - you love to turn your shoulders level to the horizon and don't feel like changing that... go for it. But then explain to me how the heck you intend to arrive at the top AND notice how in doing so you just scrunched your trail side shoulder blade down toward your trail hip pocket when doing so. You address spine just went wandering off in a direction that's anything but "stable". Now you can if you want deepen the trail side hip turn depth by squatting your knees or you can try dipping the head and neck downward in the attempt to keep you head still - but you successfully (no matter what parts you try to match) just smashed your trail shoulder blade downward while lifting your sternum up and out of the shot. Try all you want your trail knee is gong to want to drift out laterally over your trail foot and your weight will invariably want to roll to the outside of that foot as you get to the top.

 

OR - you can simply choose another way of turning the shoulders. Let them turn like a "unit" - the lead shoulder a little more down and a bit more under the chin with the trail shoulder moving up and behind the neck. NOW - the trail shoulder is not going to scrunch downward into the trail hip PROVIDED that the very hip is allowed to respond to and get pulled into this shoulder turn action.

 

As was pointed out earlier by DeNinny - the trail knee is going to need to lose some of its bend or flex that was there at address cause the hip is now moving back rather than laterally or sitting there locked up. The address spine posture can now be MUCH better preserved which directly equates to the word "stability". If that trail knee is gently and gradually losing some of its original flex and that knee is not drifting out over the trail foot - THEN that improved shoulder turn can operate smoothly - pain free - and get all the way to the top of the backswing while in the address posture.

 

So there! we just made some parts match. The shoulders turn ideally not level with the horizon but perpendicularly to the address spine. The can rotate in response to the this better shoulder turn by paying attention to a slightly stiffening knee ( and how much that stiffening or how little is just the amount needed to LET the trail hip drift back behind the trail heel a bit to prevent this possible issue where the trail shoulder squashed down into the trail hip. The address spine owes a lot of its stability in getting to the top of the backswing thanks to THESE PARTS matching:

 

1) Shoulder turn plane

2( Trail side knee work (inside the trail instep and slightly stiffening)

3) Letting the hips respond naturally to the shoulder turn - they WILL get pulled into action and the hips need not lock up or freeze up.

 

What happens when these parts match?

 

We are not in a painful, back-breaking pose at the top. We can shift the focus to the starting grip and posture so that this original address posture can move at least from address to the top well (aka not applying all this to a bad staring posture). We can then work on transition and the through swing knowing the trip from setup to the top is truly a battle being won. We didn't have to worry about a "still head" cause the shoulders turned around a basically stable spine and chest so the head just went along for the ride. We can work on how the structure of the arms and hands and elbow "parts" all work just exactly by identifying the two or three choices we make with those parts. And when we do - the club shaft will not need to lay down flat or stand up vertically on the way down from the top and when THAT happens around this stable spine - swing "plane" is FAR less of an issue to worry about - and there will be a shallower angle of attack. That whole "shallow" buzz word just got a huge and consequential boost in the process. LOTS OF DOORS will then open from start to the finish pose. All because....

 

THREE key parts just got matched - along with HOW to do it - WHY it should be done. What did the actionable pieces of the puzzle come down to? The trail knee - the shoulder turn plane - and letting the hips respond. Give me about 25 to 100 reps in front of mirror or at the range just feeling and rehearsing this stuff for a couple of weeks. That will become the way I relate to swinging it. The feel golfer gets his steak dinner so I don't have to think through all this matching parts stuff once a scorecard is in my pocket.

 

Do this all need very similar and supporting approaches to finding that best grip and setup posture to kick all this off? Are there better ways to get "parts to match" from that better address to the top of the backswing? Would our individual body types, flexibility, and other physical factors shape strong measure of individuality into it all? SURE but the parts do need to match right? LOL either they do or they don't.

 

TOOLed!

 

Nice post Judge, thankfully I'm not chasing the shallow train or trying to build my swing from nothing worrying if parts match. To be completely honest, since it's Confessions and all, I'd rather be a little too steep then too shallow.

 

 

Almost completely unrelated thought,...I always wondered how bone structure plays a role in how we swing. I know for a fact I have very wide (child bearing LOL) hips. I can see them clear as day now that I've lost a bunch more weight. Big, wide hips I have. Wonder if that make a difference in how my hip action works compared to someone with normal or narrow hips. Just thinking out loud.

[Reasonability]

I think "shallow" has some fine distinctions as well or rather the need

for being shallow. In the case of hitting the ball off a tee or fluffly lie,

we can be very shallow, even have a positive angle of attack....and that

is what is normally desired...to impart the most forward momentum

to the ball.

 

In the case of hitting the ball off the ground we still have not quite solved

the riddle of whether a ball can be pinched between the iron face and the

ground. I have read very convincing posts that have come down on opposite

sides of that fence. So far, I have not seen anything conclusive either way

though admittedly I have not investigated the matter of late.

 

So, the question; how shallow need we be with an iron or wedge hitting a

ball sitting on the ground? It seems we have some leeway there and possibly

don't have to be so shallow......or maybe we do. I have not seen a high speed

still yet that shows a ball compressed on the side facing the ground. Maybe

somebody can find one and we can put this to rest. It would be nice to know;

conclusively.

 

The "HOW" of shallow to me is not as complicated. In order for us to swing

fast enough we must reduce the MOI of our swing on the downswing.This in turn

shortens the swing arc as we pull everything in closer to our swing center.

 

The shortened swing arc gives us less space and less time to be shallow on our

approach to the ball. In my mind we offset this by getting lower on our trail side

as we approach the ball.This lowering (secondary tilt) gets us back shallow again

since we have lost the width in the downswing; in order to swing fast enough.

 

So that we don't hit the ground before the ball we must also shallow the shaft,

a different kind of shallowing. The "HOW" to in shallowing the shaft has many

answers I am sure. For me, letting the lead forearm rotate on the backswing

will shallow the shaft and NOT letting that forearm rotate back on the downswing

will keep it shallow.

 

I am sure there are many answers that will fit many different people but for me

the simple way is to set up with secondary tilt and maintain it throughout the swing

and to rotate the lead forearm on the back swing to shallow the shaft and KEEP

it shallow. Those 2 HOWs are what works for me. Others may do it differently. :)

 

I'm sitting with this one Radro - and so far I personally can't and wouldn't dispute a word of it. I agree that a slightly positive angle of attack becomes possible with driver. And I've long held the belief (like you indicate) that the chief objective is to propel the ball downrange - so the more that clubface is meeting the ball along the horizontal or level angle of attack - the more this becomes possible. And - I agree that a ball on the ground - even when struck ball-first - must have at least some potential "directional charge" effect not present if the ball were sitting on a little short broken tee. But the ball flights (for me anyway) are not monstrously different when the ball is on a decent lie versus when the ball is on the stubby little tee. Different enough I suppose to classify the little teed ball is going to be more of a "flyer".

 

Shallow as a swing term - again - has to be actionable or to me its just another conceptual term and more swing jargon. Does the trail elbow move in front of the trail hip before (or at least during) extending? Do the wrists unhinge more from centripetal force versus late or early casting? Is the "mass turning" as Scotee says or are we stalling? Did we setup the right distance from the ball and swing it up to the top forming that "structure" I talk so much about? Was anything about the ball position strange" Did the upper swing center (between the shoulders) as well as the lower swing center remain rotational but basically stable? Did I maintain a fairly consistent width of arch or pull the club in or push it out and away once in motion?

 

If most or all of those questions are "YES" then the "shallowness" of the angle of attack ought to be about right. Having had some amount of time on a launch monitor (probably less than some and way more than others).... all I know is that those things all add up cause I know I can really make the angle of attack change as I change the those things. They tend to go hand in hand in my book - as you work more on one or two of them - the others tend to fall in place more and more easily on their own. (IMO)

[Reasonability]

[quote name='Palauan Hammer' timestamp='1465970627' post='13754216']
[quote name='Reasonability' timestamp='1465967327' post='13754134']
OK - being all alone this late night... Let's see if we can make some parts "match" and while we're at it we might even "shallow" something. And versus saying "trust me" or "just do it and not over-think it".... I can only assume those who's parts all match and can just do it are already moving on since this one would be both boring - and not worth investigating. Hats off (not in cynical but very sincere tone) to all those in the enviable spot of having beautifully matched parts.

Let's tie knee work - hip turn depth - and shoulder turn plane. Lets make them "match" and then rather than say just do it lets unpack HOW - and then you can decide if you trust me or not.

Your spine is tilted enough to be able to reach the handle of that stick at address. If you lift up out of that posture - if you dip the chest or head down deeper once in motion - or sway around left and right - then some kind of "parts" had now better NOT match or you will whiff that ball as sure as you're reading this.

So since your shoulders are already sitting there on either side of a spine that's tilted from the get-go.... you can decide if you'd rather twirl them level to the horizon.... OR...turn the lead shoulder down and around whilst the trail shoulder moves up and around the other way. So in effect you have this simple option to pick one or the other. Well NOW we get our first real whack at making some parts match.

IF - you love to turn your shoulders level to the horizon and don't feel like changing that... go for it. But then explain to me how the heck you intend to arrive at the top AND notice how in doing so you just scrunched your trail side shoulder blade down toward your trail hip pocket when doing so. You address spine just went wandering off in a direction that's anything but "stable". Now you can if you want deepen the trail side hip turn depth by squatting your knees or you can try dipping the head and neck downward in the attempt to keep you head still - but you successfully (no matter what parts you try to match) just smashed your trail shoulder blade downward while lifting your sternum up and out of the shot. Try all you want your trail knee is gong to want to drift out laterally over your trail foot and your weight will invariably want to roll to the outside of that foot as you get to the top.

OR - you can simply choose another way of turning the shoulders. Let them turn like a "unit" - the lead shoulder a little more down and a bit more under the chin with the trail shoulder moving up and behind the neck. NOW - the trail shoulder is not going to scrunch downward into the trail hip PROVIDED that the very hip is allowed to respond to and get pulled into this shoulder turn action.

As was pointed out earlier by DeNinny - the trail knee is going to need to lose some of its bend or flex that was there at address cause the hip is now moving back rather than laterally or sitting there locked up. The address spine posture can now be MUCH better preserved which directly equates to the word "stability". If that trail knee is gently and gradually losing some of its original flex and that knee is not drifting out over the trail foot - THEN that improved shoulder turn can operate smoothly - pain free - and get all the way to the top of the backswing while in the address posture.

So there! we just made some parts match. The shoulders turn ideally not level with the horizon but perpendicularly to the address spine. The can rotate in response to the this better shoulder turn by paying attention to a slightly stiffening knee ( and how much that stiffening or how little is just the amount needed to LET the trail hip drift back behind the trail heel a bit to prevent this possible issue where the trail shoulder squashed down into the trail hip. The address spine owes a lot of its stability in getting to the top of the backswing thanks to THESE PARTS matching:

1) Shoulder turn plane
2( Trail side knee work (inside the trail instep and slightly stiffening)
3) Letting the hips respond naturally to the shoulder turn - they WILL get pulled into action and the hips need not lock up or freeze up.

What happens when these parts match?

We are not in a painful, back-breaking pose at the top. We can shift the focus to the starting grip and posture so that this original address posture can move at least from address to the top well (aka not applying all this to a bad staring posture). We can then work on transition and the through swing knowing the trip from setup to the top is truly a battle being won. We didn't have to worry about a "still head" cause the shoulders turned around a basically stable spine and chest so the head just went along for the ride. We can work on how the structure of the arms and hands and elbow "parts" all work just exactly by identifying the two or three choices we make with those parts. And when we do - the club shaft will not need to lay down flat or stand up vertically on the way down from the top and when THAT happens around this stable spine - swing "plane" is FAR less of an issue to worry about - and there will be a shallower angle of attack. That whole "shallow" buzz word just got a huge and consequential boost in the process. LOTS OF DOORS will then open from start to the finish pose. All because....

THREE key parts just got matched - along with HOW to do it - WHY it should be done. What did the actionable pieces of the puzzle come down to? The trail knee - the shoulder turn plane - and letting the hips respond. Give me about 25 to 100 reps in front of mirror or at the range just feeling and rehearsing this stuff for a couple of weeks. That will become the way I relate to swinging it. The feel golfer gets his steak dinner so I don't have to think through all this matching parts stuff once a scorecard is in my pocket.

Do this all need very similar and supporting approaches to finding that best grip and setup posture to kick all this off? Are there better ways to get "parts to match" from that better address to the top of the backswing? Would our individual body types, flexibility, and other physical factors shape strong measure of individuality into it all? SURE but the parts do need to match right? LOL either they do or they don't.
[/quote]

TOOLed!

Nice post Judge, thankfully I'm not chasing the shallow train or trying to build my swing from nothing worrying if parts match. To be completely honest, since it's Confessions and all, I'd rather be a little too steep then too shallow.


Almost completely unrelated thought,...I always wondered how bone structure plays a role in how we swing. I know for a fact I have very wide (child bearing LOL) hips. I can see them clear as day now that I've lost a bunch more weight. Big, wide hips I have. Wonder if that make a difference in how my hip action works compared to someone with normal or narrow hips. Just thinking out loud.
[/quote]

Good questions Hammy about body types. It's GOT to factor into a swing. Same with wounded veteran golfers, folks with physical challenges, aging golfers and even common things like being bow-legged.

LOL - glad your swing is not suffering from matching-itis.

Was in the I & A today for a short spell - and emerged choking form the way folks were being TOLD there are too many individual variables to say how the parts are supposed to match while being told they none-the-less need to. Bugged me that folks are being told to make sure they do it - right in the face of unwillingness to match a few up. LOL.

[Conrad1953]

OK - being all alone this late night... Let's see if we can make some parts "match" and while we're at it we might even "shallow" something. And versus saying "trust me" or "just do it and not over-think it".... I can only assume those who's parts all match and can just do it are already moving on since this one would be both boring - and not worth investigating. Hats off (not in cynical but very sincere tone) to all those in the enviable spot of having beautifully matched parts.

 

Let's tie knee work - hip turn depth - and shoulder turn plane. Lets make them "match" and then rather than say just do it lets unpack HOW - and then you can decide if you trust me or not.

 

Your spine is tilted enough to be able to reach the handle of that stick at address. If you lift up out of that posture - if you dip the chest or head down deeper once in motion - or sway around left and right - then some kind of "parts" had now better NOT match or you will whiff that ball as sure as you're reading this.

 

So since your shoulders are already sitting there on either side of a spine that's tilted from the get-go.... you can decide if you'd rather twirl them level to the horizon.... OR...turn the lead shoulder down and around whilst the trail shoulder moves up and around the other way. So in effect you have this simple option to pick one or the other. Well NOW we get our first real whack at making some parts match.

 

IF - you love to turn your shoulders level to the horizon and don't feel like changing that... go for it. But then explain to me how the heck you intend to arrive at the top AND notice how in doing so you just scrunched your trail side shoulder blade down toward your trail hip pocket when doing so. You address spine just went wandering off in a direction that's anything but "stable". Now you can if you want deepen the trail side hip turn depth by squatting your knees or you can try dipping the head and neck downward in the attempt to keep you head still - but you successfully (no matter what parts you try to match) just smashed your trail shoulder blade downward while lifting your sternum up and out of the shot. Try all you want your trail knee is gong to want to drift out laterally over your trail foot and your weight will invariably want to roll to the outside of that foot as you get to the top.

 

OR - you can simply choose another way of turning the shoulders. Let them turn like a "unit" - the lead shoulder a little more down and a bit more under the chin with the trail shoulder moving up and behind the neck. NOW - the trail shoulder is not going to scrunch downward into the trail hip PROVIDED that the very hip is allowed to respond to and get pulled into this shoulder turn action.

 

As was pointed out earlier by DeNinny - the trail knee is going to need to lose some of its bend or flex that was there at address cause the hip is now moving back rather than laterally or sitting there locked up. The address spine posture can now be MUCH better preserved which directly equates to the word "stability". If that trail knee is gently and gradually losing some of its original flex and that knee is not drifting out over the trail foot - THEN that improved shoulder turn can operate smoothly - pain free - and get all the way to the top of the backswing while in the address posture.

 

So there! we just made some parts match. The shoulders turn ideally not level with the horizon but perpendicularly to the address spine. The can rotate in response to the this better shoulder turn by paying attention to a slightly stiffening knee ( and how much that stiffening or how little is just the amount needed to LET the trail hip drift back behind the trail heel a bit to prevent this possible issue where the trail shoulder squashed down into the trail hip. The address spine owes a lot of its stability in getting to the top of the backswing thanks to THESE PARTS matching:

 

1) Shoulder turn plane

2( Trail side knee work (inside the trail instep and slightly stiffening)

3) Letting the hips respond naturally to the shoulder turn - they WILL get pulled into action and the hips need not lock up or freeze up.

 

What happens when these parts match?

 

We are not in a painful, back-breaking pose at the top. We can shift the focus to the starting grip and posture so that this original address posture can move at least from address to the top well (aka not applying all this to a bad staring posture). We can then work on transition and the through swing knowing the trip from setup to the top is truly a battle being won. We didn't have to worry about a "still head" cause the shoulders turned around a basically stable spine and chest so the head just went along for the ride. We can work on how the structure of the arms and hands and elbow "parts" all work just exactly by identifying the two or three choices we make with those parts. And when we do - the club shaft will not need to lay down flat or stand up vertically on the way down from the top and when THAT happens around this stable spine - swing "plane" is FAR less of an issue to worry about - and there will be a shallower angle of attack. That whole "shallow" buzz word just got a huge and consequential boost in the process. LOTS OF DOORS will then open from start to the finish pose. All because....

 

THREE key parts just got matched - along with HOW to do it - WHY it should be done. What did the actionable pieces of the puzzle come down to? The trail knee - the shoulder turn plane - and letting the hips respond. Give me about 25 to 100 reps in front of mirror or at the range just feeling and rehearsing this stuff for a couple of weeks. That will become the way I relate to swinging it. The feel golfer gets his steak dinner so I don't have to think through all this matching parts stuff once a scorecard is in my pocket.

 

Do this all need very similar and supporting approaches to finding that best grip and setup posture to kick all this off? Are there better ways to get "parts to match" from that better address to the top of the backswing? Would our individual body types, flexibility, and other physical factors shape strong measure of individuality into it all? SURE but the parts do need to match right? LOL either they do or they don't.

 

TOOLed!

 

Nice post Judge, thankfully I'm not chasing the shallow train or trying to build my swing from nothing worrying if parts match. To be completely honest, since it's Confessions and all, I'd rather be a little too steep then too shallow.

 

 

Almost completely unrelated thought,...I always wondered how bone structure plays a role in how we swing. I know for a fact I have very wide (child bearing LOL) hips. I can see them clear as day now that I've lost a bunch more weight. Big, wide hips I have. Wonder if that make a difference in how my hip action works compared to someone with normal or narrow hips. Just thinking out loud.

 

Good questions Hammy about body types. It's GOT to factor into a swing. Same with wounded veteran golfers, folks with physical challenges, aging golfers and even common things like being bow-legged.

 

LOL - glad your swing is not suffering from matching-itis.

 

Was in the I & A today for a short spell - and emerged choking form the way folks were being TOLD there are too many individual variables to say how the parts are supposed to match while being told they none-the-less need to. Bugged me that folks are being told to make sure they do it - right in the face of unwillingness to match a few up. LOL.

 

So he can get them to pay to find out more, lol.

[Conrad1953]

One issue I find in my swing at times is knee flex. As I rotate back I'll essentially squat a little, as if my left knee flexes more as I rotate and I somehow try to keep the same flex in the right knee. This usually always results in a fat shot, or a topped ball if during the downswing I try to revert back to my orginal knee flex (I guess like popping up). good thing is, it doesn't happen often.

 

If you try to maintain the same knee flex as you turn the hips, by the physics you will drop in height. Each hip is closest to its respective knee when both hips and knees are square. As soon as you turn the hips to be at an angle to the knees, that distance lengthens,​ so in order to keep the hips at the same height as you turn them, you actually have to straighten both legs.

 

I'm trying to picture this in my mind, it doesn't seem to compute. Unless you mean "not at the same time"

 

My lead knee may move to my lead foot instep, in the BS, then on the DS, my trail leg (hip turn/snap) will straightened (pushing my hips forward) THEN, at/past impact, my lead leg will be forced to straighten as I transfer.

 

What am I missing? :dntknw:

 

I don't mean that the legs fully straighten. I just mean they have to flex LESS (just a little) as the hips turn in order to keep the hips at the same height. As the hips turn at the same height, they get a little farther away from each respective knee.

 

Take a flat dollar bill. Then start twisting it in opposite directions at each end. What happens? Answer: the ends get closer together.

 

What if the hips don't turn at the same height? I set up with my trail hip and shoulders

aligned together but tilted into a secondary tilt. Are you saying I need to come out of

my tilt on the back swing? That would be bad juju for me.

 

Also, if you set up without secondary tilt, you will get into that position at impact

anyway with the trail hip lower than the lead hip; along with the shoulder. So at

some point on the down swing you should lose hips being at the same height,

unless you lower the trail shoulder only, but then lose your shoulder and hip

alignment and leak power.

[Conrad1953]

I have a question about controlling putt distance by length of swing.

How does that work? Do you exert the same force on the putter?

 

The putter head keeps accelerating so a longer swing equates to

more speed? Sorry, it's late and I'm tired. I've never tried this method.

 

I do like Stu and just by feel. I can't get too mechanical. I can't imagine

hitting all putts exerting the same force and relying on the length of the

swing to control the speed. It must work, I guess because many do it.

[Michael C.]

I have a question about controlling putt distance by length of swing.

How does that work? Do you exert the same force on the putter?

 

The putter head keeps accelerating so a longer swing equates to

more speed? Sorry, it's late and I'm tired. I've never tried this method.

 

I do like Stu and just by feel. I can't get too mechanical. I can't imagine

hitting all putts exerting the same force and relying on the length of the

swing to control the speed. It must work, I guess because many do it.

 

I rarely pay attention to how far I take the putter back. Thanks Rad. One more thing to think too much about. :D I do know the backstroke is much shorter on short putts and downhillers. I, also, know there is a rhythm to my stroke. I can't define it but I know when it's too fast or too slow. Most often when it's off its too fast. There must be a limit on long lag putts because I do hit them harder. When I practice long putts or 3 footers, I only think about keeping my head still and body still. Just move the shoulders and arms.

[jbhawx]

One issue I find in my swing at times is knee flex. As I rotate back I'll essentially squat a little, as if my left knee flexes more as I rotate and I somehow try to keep the same flex in the right knee. This usually always results in a fat shot, or a topped ball if during the downswing I try to revert back to my orginal knee flex (I guess like popping up). good thing is, it doesn't happen often.

 

If you try to maintain the same knee flex as you turn the hips, by the physics you will drop in height. Each hip is closest to its respective knee when both hips and knees are square. As soon as you turn the hips to be at an angle to the knees, that distance lengthens, so in order to keep the hips at the same height as you turn them, you actually have to straighten both legs.

 

Totally makes sense. The right knee usually starts to straighten out in the BS as I rotate around and the left knee folds inwards. What I meant is sometimes I will also flex that left knee more, as in bend it more as it goes in, this results in the right knee also bending more instead of straightening out during the BS. So really I am doing the opposite with the right knee. I can feel my whole body getting closer to the ground lol.

[DeNinny]

...

In the case of hitting the ball off the ground we still have not quite solved

the riddle of whether a ball can be pinched between the iron face and the

ground. I have read very convincing posts that have come down on opposite

sides of that fence. So far, I have not seen anything conclusive either way

though admittedly I have not investigated the matter of late.

...

 

Any force or directional vector, in any direction, can be mathematically be further broken down into three separate vectors in the x, y, and z dimensions. (The pythagorean theorem is the mathematical relationship.) So, if a swing path has a downward AoA, then it will apply a force in the downward vertical direction (y axis) and the targetward horizontal direction (x axis). So unequivocally and theoretically, there is a downward "pinching" force on the ball even with the most minimal downward AoA.

 

You may not see it and the more lofted face angle of the club will play a role in lessening this downward "pinching" force, but it is 100% present as long as there is a downward AoA. As long as this is true, there is (unequivocally) a straight downward component of the force of the clubface onto the ball.

 

There is no riddle in the theory. The only riddle is whether or not the downward "pinching" force is significant enough to "see" with current technology.

[DeNinny]

One issue I find in my swing at times is knee flex. As I rotate back I'll essentially squat a little, as if my left knee flexes more as I rotate and I somehow try to keep the same flex in the right knee. This usually always results in a fat shot, or a topped ball if during the downswing I try to revert back to my orginal knee flex (I guess like popping up). good thing is, it doesn't happen often.

 

If you try to maintain the same knee flex as you turn the hips, by the physics you will drop in height. Each hip is closest to its respective knee when both hips and knees are square. As soon as you turn the hips to be at an angle to the knees, that distance lengthens,​ so in order to keep the hips at the same height as you turn them, you actually have to straighten both legs.

 

I'm trying to picture this in my mind, it doesn't seem to compute. Unless you mean "not at the same time"

 

My lead knee may move to my lead foot instep, in the BS, then on the DS, my trail leg (hip turn/snap) will straightened (pushing my hips forward) THEN, at/past impact, my lead leg will be forced to straighten as I transfer.

 

What am I missing? :dntknw:

 

I don't mean that the legs fully straighten. I just mean they have to flex LESS (just a little) as the hips turn in order to keep the hips at the same height. As the hips turn at the same height, they get a little farther away from each respective knee.

 

Take a flat dollar bill. Then start twisting it in opposite directions at each end. What happens? Answer: the ends get closer together.

 

What if the hips don't turn at the same height? I set up with my trail hip and shoulders

aligned together but tilted into a secondary tilt. Are you saying I need to come out of

my tilt on the back swing? That would be bad juju for me.

 

Also, if you set up without secondary tilt, you will get into that position at impact

anyway with the trail hip lower than the lead hip; along with the shoulder. So at

some point on the down swing you should lose hips being at the same height,

unless you lower the trail shoulder only, but then lose your shoulder and hip

alignment and leak power.

 

It doesn't matter if the hips are tilted or not. As long as they turn, each hip, regardless of tilt, gets farther away from its respective knee as soon as the turn starts.

 

All I'm saying is that if you want to KEEP that same tilt as you turn the hips in the backswing AND you want to keep them at their same relative heights, then you have to add 'length' to both legs as you do it.

[DeNinny]

There are only two ways to make a swing arc more 'shallow':

 

1) Literally move the point at which the swing 'bottoms out' to be closer to the point of impact.

 

2) Widen or flatten the arc itself.

[DeNinny]

One issue I find in my swing at times is knee flex. As I rotate back I'll essentially squat a little, as if my left knee flexes more as I rotate and I somehow try to keep the same flex in the right knee. This usually always results in a fat shot, or a topped ball if during the downswing I try to revert back to my orginal knee flex (I guess like popping up). good thing is, it doesn't happen often.

 

If you try to maintain the same knee flex as you turn the hips, by the physics you will drop in height. Each hip is closest to its respective knee when both hips and knees are square. As soon as you turn the hips to be at an angle to the knees, that distance lengthens, so in order to keep the hips at the same height as you turn them, you actually have to straighten both legs.

 

Totally makes sense. The right knee usually starts to straighten out in the BS as I rotate around and the left knee folds inwards. What I meant is sometimes I will also flex that left knee more, as in bend it more as it goes in, this results in the right knee also bending more instead of straightening out during the BS. So really I am doing the opposite with the right knee. I can feel my whole body getting closer to the ground lol.

 

...and when you are closer to the ground you *may* hit it fat if you don't return back to the ideal height at impact. Or you *may* hit it thin or top it, if you overcompensate and get higher than the ideal impact height.

 

It's best to keep the hips at a constant height throughout the swing if you want to have one less variable to deal with.