Has Golf Become too Formulamatic?

[TimV]

Now I will state upfront that I am a "feel player." I was before, and after I came back from breaking my back (basically crushed my L3) I had no choice but to be one. I had to feel my way to what worked for me. That said, I see a lot of golfers with a "formulamatic" swing. I think it's easier every year to get one with all the new teaching tech and tools that keep coming out. What do you think? Good, Bad, Indifferent? I can see that when these technique golfers are on that their swing is superior to mine even before my major injury. However, then and now, when my swing "gets off" it seldom takes me more than a hole or two to "find it" again. That's because I know what it should feel like and I can make minute adjustments until I find the feeling again. It appears to me that when a formula player loses their swing it can take them out far longer because they haven't developed that innate feel for what their swing should be. They have instead learned a pattern of movement that is in some ways almost robotic and like a robot when it breaks it's not easily fixed. The old pros in their books and latter in their tapes did teach technique but along with that they constantly espoused the need to develope a feel for what you're doing. I'm wondering if that is getting lost in all the new teaching technology. Along with this I will say that a couple years back I used a laser scope almost religiously. I sold it along with some clubs last fall because I saw that relying on it instead of my eyes had made me a poorer and less instinctive player. I am shooting better scores without it. I know this may all sound like an old man yelling "Get off my lawn!" but it isn't meant that way. I'm not saying the old ways of golf are right and the new wrong. I'm just asking if we aren't lossing something here. I don't know, but am interested to hear all your thoughts on this. Thanks.

[scomac2002]

I'm pretty sure that all the young players being turned out today are formulaic swingers. It's all about the most efficient motion to get club to ball to maximize distance. The industry makes sure we have a club for every purpose so imagination isn't required at least at the recreational level. People want prescriptions for everything in life, golf is no different.

 

As far as folks my age are concerned, formula doesn't enter into it. There are more different swings than Carter has pills with the vast majority being far from ideal. It's the best we can come up with at our ages when the effects of age take its toll. That said, I see most recreational players approach every hole as if it falls into one of two categories: driver off the tee or par three (and sometimes that doesn't even matter). Each subsequent shot is considered in the same model: longest club I can hit for the distance left to the pin. There isn't a lot of thought that goes into it, but that is more a case of course management and I would think that the vast majority of players use next to none.

 

As with most things in life once it gets industrialized the artistry is removed in favour of mass produced consistency. That doesn't mean something is better, more often than not it's just bland to please more potential customers and cheaper to attract more to the fold. Golf is there now and probably has been for the last 30 years or so.

 

Not exactly the answer you are looking for. I find most folks that I run into and play with enough to notice will have the same swing issues their entire golfing life. If their miss is a slice, they slice; if it's a hook, they hook. It doesn't really change so there isn't much in real improvement beyond increasing consistency and reducing the frequency of the predominant miss. Is that formulaic? I don't know, but most aspire to some sort of comfortable routine. As a result real change is rare.

[Nomad Golfer]

I was thinking about the word "style" and I'm not referring to dress.

Long hitter, straight hitter, accurate hitter, but seldom "stylish" hitter.

Some players I can think of that have some style are Hyo-Joo Kim, Hideki Matsuyama

and Payne Stewart. Matsuyama has a two-part swing, the first to coil and line up the club, a slight pause, and then punching into the ball, controlling the arc. To me his swing is very short - the downswing. Watch a baseball player ready to hit the ball, short and explosive.

[gsea33]

Being almost old (whatever the hell that is) agree 100%. But it is the way of golf now, not good or bad just another swing "style". Swing methods are great for some. I think to achieve any high level of play though they have to be range rats. I for a long time would change my swing with every new "swing" method that was preached. It was short lived solutions for me because like I said these are robot moves that have to be practiced over and over again. I now have a single feel that I must feel in my backswing which makes me much much more consistent (same with my pitches & chips). I also believe with all the new club trying they need a formula to be halfway successful. I was "experimenting" with some different clubs at the range and found out that my Eye 2 becu and 65 Dyna Powers work best for me and my 77 Hogans didn't. I also can look at a target and choose the correct club for me without knowing yardage it just looks like an x club shot.

[8bitpowerfade]

Golf is all about learning new things and adapting in adverse conditions. Sure, basic mechanics, efficiency and accuracy are key, and I am in awe at some folks at the range that have that robot swing, but it's not everything. Golf would be boring if all it was about was achieving a perfect, formulaic swing. That pretty, picture-perfect range swing won't work in all situations too, with goofy lies or a punch shot, for example. Sometimes you need to think creatively and paradoxically break the swing to achieve the ideal shot. How did that guy with the $300 SC putter miss at 6-ft and I found the cup with my 1965 Bullseye at 25-ft? A lot of advice about mechanics and equipment can be overkill or between people's ears. Golfing experience, playing actual rounds more often, and focusing on what matters in the context of a particular situation is more important. Realizing that there's a lot of nonsense out there, tuning it out so you don't sweat small things like how shiny your new expensive putter, is what I call game improvement. Telling good stories and jokes on the course doesn't hurt either.

[bk52]

I would have to say that the ability to see one's swing on high speed video and measure the various elements (angle of attack, launch angle, swing speed, etc...) has greatly aided the development of top players. It also has tended to make "good swings" look fairly similar. Over the long haul, those robotic swings are going to produce better results than our cobbled together efforts.

[scruffynick]

Yep, modern golf on tv is boring mostly....I miss the shot makers, great ball strickers, strange swings but great golfers etc etc I think the idea of kids grooming a swing using blades has gone, but the game has moved on and in parts for the better but some parts for the worse.

[gsea33]

Yep, modern golf on tv is boring mostly....I miss the shot makers, great ball strickers, strange swings but great golfers etc etc I think the idea of kids grooming a swing using blades has gone, but the game has moved on and in parts for the better but some parts for the worse.

 

Miller's win at Pebble in 94 is best shotmaking seen in the last 25 yrs. Watch a tape and check out his different swing contortions to make the ball go where he wanted.

Miller carried a 7-wood and three wedges, he didn't carry a 3-iron. That was the club the par 3 17th 209-yard shot called for. So he improvised. He closed down his 4-iron, put the ball back in his stance, and, as he put it, "revved it up."

[scruffynick]

Yep, modern golf on tv is boring mostly....I miss the shot makers, great ball strickers, strange swings but great golfers etc etc I think the idea of kids grooming a swing using blades has gone, but the game has moved on and in parts for the better but some parts for the worse.

 

Miller's win at Pebble in 94 is best shotmaking seen in the last 25 yrs. Watch a tape and check out his different swing contortions to make the ball go where he wanted.

Miller carried a 7-wood and three wedges, he didn't carry a 3-iron. That was the club the par 3 17th 209-yard shot called for. So he improvised. He closed down his 4-iron, put the ball back in his stance, and, as he put it, "revved it up."

Yep, that's what I miss! I also miss the shorter hitters that came to life in majors as they hardly missed the fairway and hit stunning shaped long irons all week. Corey pavin springs to mind, you just don't get these players anymore

[Jamespowers]

What I want to see more players like Lee Trevino on the tv golf tourneys. Players that could hit the ball way off the fairway and still make par. Also players that are characters on the course and who stop and talk with the gallery. Entertain as well as play the game. Those were the days....

[stevemcgee99]

Where's the next Chi Chi?

 

I too get bored very fast watching a lot of the players I see on the course around me. Like an oil well pump from SoCal or TX - like they're trying to do the swing right, and not trying to hit the ball where they want it to go.

[stevemcgee99]

Also, I suppose that's why people buy lasers. They do exactly the same thing every time (until they putt) so it's a question of which iron they put between themselves and the hole.

[Par-net-birdie]

The only formulaic golf I see at my club ,are the guys with ugly swings that keep buying new drivers putters etc. And then b#%ch that this new club is crap

I tell them get some instruction for that classic over the top lunge and practice. Inevitable is the reply , I don't have time

I can't afford it or I'd rather play

[stevemcgee99]

Pretty sure ebay clubs and a few lessons costs less than one Millenium Falcon on a fishing rod.

[scomac2002]

Yabbut, buying a new club is easier, Steve... :rolleyes:

[scruffynick]

Pretty sure ebay clubs and a few lessons costs less than one Millenium Falcon on a fishing rod.

Ha ha ha!!! I'll remember that one!

[BIG STU]

Good answers all of you! Yep I miss the old players like Trevino and Miller ( minus the mouth) that could manufacturer a shot when required and like in Miller's case make a club fit the task at hand. I do not subscribe to modern mechanics that much I am strictly a feel player.

 

Saw a tourist golfer or yuppie golfer as some of us call them on the range the other day. He had all the latest and greatest (?) staff bag and all. He was resting and watching me hit and was checking out my stand bag with the old Macs, rusty Cleveland wedges and of course the rusty Scotty. He saw my 2 iron and asked me "can you hit that old blade 2 iron?" I looked at him and growled "If I could not hit it --- it would not be in my frigging bag"---- I am getting older and like the old man as in "get off my lawn"----- I try to be a nice person so I resisted really saying yes I can still hit it I am not a poser like you are!

 

I have already had a couple of prim proper golfers almost have a heart attack over the rusty Scotty and folks absolutely do not believe me when I tell them I work for a metal recycling company and found that thing on the junk pile

[teevons]

Good answers all of you! Yep I miss the old players like Trevino and Miller ( minus the mouth) that could manufacturer a shot when required and like in Miller's case make a club fit the task at hand. I do not subscribe to modern mechanics that much I am strictly a feel player.

 

Saw a tourist golfer or yuppie golfer as some of us call them on the range the other day. He had all the latest and greatest (?) staff bag and all. He was resting and watching me hit and was checking out my stand bag with the old Macs, rusty Cleveland wedges and of course the rusty Scotty. He saw my 2 iron and asked me "can you hit that old blade 2 iron?" I looked at him and growled "If I could not hit it --- it would not be in my frigging bag"---- I am getting older and like the old man as in "get off my lawn"----- I try to be a nice person so I resisted really saying yes I can still hit it I am not a poser like you are!

 

I have already had a couple of prim proper golfers almost have a heart attack over the rusty Scotty and folks absolutely do not believe me when I tell them I work for a metal recycling company and found that thing on the junk pile

take a pic of your bag at the range next time

[jslane57]

Equipment has changed things fore sure. The clubs of yesterday had to hit in the sweet spot or there was a larger penalty. Fundamentals seemed to be just a little more personalized when a miss hit cost more. But to be fair, the players who excel today are more than just pretty swings, they can do all the things with the ball...including long, high, and straight!

[Matt J]

Almost all good players claim to be "feel players." Don't think I've ever heard any golfer proudly claim they try and be robotic.

 

You look at the current touring pros and there are all kinds of builds, swings, temperaments, and personalities. Sure, it's a game of physics, if you can bring a square club face into the ball at a high speed you're probably going to like the results. Certainly the equipment has encouraged a lower spin game, but that's both good and bad with no big net advantage IMO. Just watch when the wind really starts blowing at a tour event. Certain guys can walk away from the field, they understand spin and using it their advantage.

 

It has been said repeatedly, but the average player hasn't improved at this game. Maybe the equipment is better, but fewer people seem to have the time or interest to take advantage of it. I think the game can be as much science or art as the player chooses. If it's a formula than it's like the formula for Coca-Cola, too few people have access to it.

[Par-net-birdie]

Even the robotic player has feel

Tiger works on the swing in segments , thousands of reps. Then he claims he's trying to find feels

But throwback feel players , bubba and I can't think of too many in this generation

I always thought it odd that tiger was always trying to get to the point where he could correct his swing mid round. Mind you he can work the ball probably better than bubba

My best friend is a pro, we hit balls at the range and it's one guy call the shot the other call the club

Practicing with him one winter after he told me to buy blades I dropped 10 strokes off my cap

By becoming a feel player

I have a laser but only use it on trips or at tracks I've never played

All the old boys at my club all use lasers or gps from 30 yards

Bottom line imo you have to practice feel , hit up the ladder and down

[Nomad Golfer]

Feel is what tennis players do a lot of, can't imagine a robot dropping a delicate shot just over the net. Feel is what you certainly get from blades, and from wooden clubs to a certain extent as well.

[BIG STU]

Almost all good players claim to be "feel players." Don't think I've ever heard any golfer proudly claim they try and be robotic.

 

You look at the current touring pros and there are all kinds of builds, swings, temperaments, and personalities. Sure, it's a game of physics, if you can bring a square club face into the ball at a high speed you're probably going to like the results. Certainly the equipment has encouraged a lower spin game, but that's both good and bad with no big net advantage IMO. Just watch when the wind really starts blowing at a tour event. Certain guys can walk away from the field, they understand spin and using it their advantage.

 

It has been said repeatedly, but the average player hasn't improved at this game. Maybe the equipment is better, but fewer people seem to have the time or interest to take advantage of it. I think the game can be as much science or art as the player chooses. If it's a formula than it's like the formula for Coca-Cola, too few people have access to it.

Feel can be natural or one can be blessed with it at birth. Personally I think I am a combination of both. I also think it is a product of how one learned and developed their game and most certainly the type of equipment they learned it with. Most of the folks in the Classics section here are like I am learned and played in the blade,persimmon and balata era. As we age we do have to make some changes as our body changes I certainly have had to do that. I have always been a proponent of a more natural type swing. I have always told people if they want to copy a Pro's swing to find someone who has a body build simular to their's and go from there for a base plan. I always tell people to look on the Champion's Tour you will see many different swings to get to and through the ball. I learned at an early age from watching players at my Dad's course that there is no one set way or etched in stone way to swing and play the game and I have preached that gospel so to speak my entire life. When I was young and developing my game I was blessed being at that course of getting to see some good players and how they went about their game and I adapted a lot of different things from a lot of different players. My old man for example was a heck of a player in his day but my game and his is total opposite ( he hated my game to his dying day) He was somewhat short but straight and a master of the bump and run with a 5 or 7 iron around the greens. Me I was long and crooked and could use a 5 iron like Seve to get out of trouble. I was always a better wedge player and putter than he was. I lived and died by the wedge and putter as he always put it. I developed my game by playing our little par 3 pitch and putt course. I developed my short game by playing literally hundreds of holes on that "Little 9" as we called it. I will say one has to hit a lot of balls to develop feel. I can time myself up by hitting wedges. If I am playing and warming up you will see me take my wedges only to the range or hitting net to loosen up and then to the putting and chipping area. Most folks I see around here go straight to the range with driver in hand to warm up with and hardly ever roll a ball on the putting green

 

 

LOL This post just reminded me of something my old man used to say sarcastically about me and my game-- You could always tell a set of irons I played for a couple of years because not only were the wedges beat to hell and back but so was the 5 iron

[Matt J]

Everybody over the age of 40 learned golf with blades, persimmons, and balatas. People were still searching for a "forumula" to hit the ball straight even with higher spin equipment.

 

The game presents different challenges as you progress. As you become better they're mostly mental. There's no formula for the mental game. Well, I guess if I was asked what I thought the formula to be, I would say:

 

Care just enough to fully concentrate and commit to each shot, then let the results go.

[BIG STU]

Good answers all of you! Yep I miss the old players like Trevino and Miller ( minus the mouth) that could manufacturer a shot when required and like in Miller's case make a club fit the task at hand. I do not subscribe to modern mechanics that much I am strictly a feel player.

 

Saw a tourist golfer or yuppie golfer as some of us call them on the range the other day. He had all the latest and greatest (?) staff bag and all. He was resting and watching me hit and was checking out my stand bag with the old Macs, rusty Cleveland wedges and of course the rusty Scotty. He saw my 2 iron and asked me "can you hit that old blade 2 iron?" I looked at him and growled "If I could not hit it --- it would not be in my frigging bag"---- I am getting older and like the old man as in "get off my lawn"----- I try to be a nice person so I resisted really saying yes I can still hit it I am not a poser like you are!

 

I have already had a couple of prim proper golfers almost have a heart attack over the rusty Scotty and folks absolutely do not believe me when I tell them I work for a metal recycling company and found that thing on the junk pile

take a pic of your bag at the range next time

OK Teevons this is for you

 

 

That is what I play with took in the parking lot because I always leave my phone in my truck when at the course

 

The Rusty Scotty Santa Fe-- I can putt the lights out with that rusty SOB!

[BIG STU]

Teevons this is the rusty Scotty as is when I found it in the scrap pile at work no joke. It was a raw finish to begin with the sole is badly pitted. I checked with the custom shop it would cost a minimun of $250 to properly restore. The face is not pitted and I am not a spit and polish guy so it works as is for me plus the shock value is priceless

 

 

Another pic of the Macs in my real old ( at least 10 years old Titleist Staff Bag) Taken about a year or so ago

 

 

I actually did clean the Scotty up some and due to the salt air and climate here have to periodically wipe it down with WD-40 and a gun rag to keep it from getting TOO rusty

[jslane57]

I'm enjoying this thread. Old vs. new. Feel v. mechanical. This works on woods, irons, and putters. But even us "feel" players can't get away from the new balls. The ball is the biggest culprit imo. I can line up for a nice low stinging cut shot with my 3-wood (as to take the left side out of play) and if I hit the shot perfectly I will look up to see my ball going high and straight! I did protect from the left, but it's not squirting out low, rising and drifting right like a balata ball would have. And the new woods with high moi and such really only benefit the good golfer. If you don't hit the club perfectly, you don't get the advantages. I would love to see the PGA tours go the way of MLB baseball. Limit the ball's speed and control-ability. Limit the size, length, and loft of the clubs. The long hitters always have hit it farther, but 10% farther makes less of a difference at 200 yards than 400 yards. I like trying the new equipment, but hybrids...yuk! Let me keep a 3 iron and a Raylor:)

[stixman]

Question is....when you see a pin , do you pull a club or pull the yardage? Artists versus pseudo-scientists!

 

Artists win in the long term, trust me..I'm an old artist :)

[BIG STU]

Question is....when you see a pin , do you pull a club or pull the yardage? Artists versus pseudo-scientists!

 

Artists win in the long term, trust me..I'm an old artist :)

To be completely honest at my home course I rarely pull my range finder. I have played there 14 years roughly average of at least 40 rounds a year or more. Now on a course I do not know that well I will pull the Bushnell. I just really started using one a year ago when a friend of mine gave me his old one. Before I got the range finder I usually figured the yardage and pulled a club.

[jslane57]

Yardage markers were one of my pet peeves. Were...now I've got a range finder and don't care anymore. It is rare to see a course with clear yardage markers like in years past. Keeping the 150 makers perfectly visible seems to be falling away just a tad. I loved to see a 150 post in the middle of the fairway or one on each side, I could count steps or just guesstimate. Now it is a worn out line on the cart path and a plaque set too low to find in the fairway. Love the old artists, but you got to know your canvas:)