Swing Thoughts or Feel Thoughts?..That There Is Even A Discussion Amazes Me..

Jim Waldron · December 4, 2016

I think the concepts about how to make a swing change by using feel channel and letting go of the conscious mind when executing a swing (ie not telling body parts to do things consciously) is revolutionary. You just don't see people analyzing the process of learning at this level every day. But this assumes that someone knows enough about their swing to know that he wants to go from point A to point B.

Now, if someone doesn't know what they're "doing wrong", the instructor has to first explain to the golfer that he's at point A, then comes the even more difficult task of describing the unimaginable point B that the golfer may have never experienced before. How is this done? By meticulous communication, telling body parts what to do, what not to do, get in this position, not in that position, visualizing where the body/club is in space, etc... and the golfer has to remember it all. This takes a lot of conscious thought. Once he understand point A and point B, he is then instructed to forget all the analysis and commanding body parts that he just went through the substantial effort to remember/understand. In fact, everything that he worked so hard to put into his brain, he is told, is now poison. Say what?

It's any wonder anyone ever makes a swing change successfully!

It's very easy to over-analyze. And important to know A and B as you said - but in very simple ways of thinking is always better.

The cool thing about slow motion training is that it does allow you to put your body in the right positions pretty easily since the mirror gives your the real time feedback, so there is much less temptation to "over think" it.

Remember the goal of any direct training of the body in a new movement pattern is to eventually form a dominant habit, which means unconscious competence. If you have to "think about it" - it just means you need more practice, more reps - to make it a habit.

starsail85 · December 4, 2016

I think the concepts about how to make a swing change by using feel channel and letting go of the conscious mind when executing a swing (ie not telling body parts to do things consciously) is revolutionary. You just don't see people analyzing the process of learning at this level every day. But this assumes that someone knows enough about their swing to know that he wants to go from point A to point B.

Now, if someone doesn't know what they're "doing wrong", the instructor has to first explain to the golfer that he's at point A, then comes the even more difficult task of describing the unimaginable point B that the golfer may have never experienced before. How is this done? By meticulous communication, telling body parts what to do, what not to do, get in this position, not in that position, visualizing where the body/club is in space, etc... and the golfer has to remember it all. This takes a lot of conscious thought. Once he understand point A and point B, he is then instructed to forget all the analysis and commanding body parts that he just went through the substantial effort to remember/understand. In fact, everything that he worked so hard to put into his brain, he is told, is now poison. Say what?

It's any wonder anyone ever makes a swing change successfully!

It's very easy to over-analyze. And important to know A and B as you said - but in very simple ways of thinking is always better.
The cool thing about slow motion training is that it does allow you to put your body in the right positions pretty easily since the mirror gives your the real time feedback, so there is much less temptation to "over think" it.

Remember the goal of any direct training of the body in a new movement pattern is to eventually form a dominant habit, which means unconscious competence. If you have to "think about it" - it just means you need more practice, more reps - to make it a habit.

The million dollar question is how many more reps does one need to replace a dominant habit?

jbw749 · December 4, 2016

During the swing my conscious thought is: "I'm willing to accept the outcome good or bad". Doing this takes the weight off your shoulders and doesn't cause you to tense up at impact.

After a while you get good at it and it's just the way you play golf. You walk around the course not pumping yourself up after good shots and not tearing yourself down after bad shots. You're just content and it results in better play.

Jim Waldron · December 4, 2016

I think the concepts about how to make a swing change by using feel channel and letting go of the conscious mind when executing a swing (ie not telling body parts to do things consciously) is revolutionary. You just don't see people analyzing the process of learning at this level every day. But this assumes that someone knows enough about their swing to know that he wants to go from point A to point B.

Now, if someone doesn't know what they're "doing wrong", the instructor has to first explain to the golfer that he's at point A, then comes the even more difficult task of describing the unimaginable point B that the golfer may have never experienced before. How is this done? By meticulous communication, telling body parts what to do, what not to do, get in this position, not in that position, visualizing where the body/club is in space, etc... and the golfer has to remember it all. This takes a lot of conscious thought. Once he understand point A and point B, he is then instructed to forget all the analysis and commanding body parts that he just went through the substantial effort to remember/understand. In fact, everything that he worked so hard to put into his brain, he is told, is now poison. Say what?

It's any wonder anyone ever makes a swing change successfully!

It's very easy to over-analyze. And important to know A and B as you said - but in very simple ways of thinking is always better.
The cool thing about slow motion training is that it does allow you to put your body in the right positions pretty easily since the mirror gives your the real time feedback, so there is much less temptation to "over think" it.

Remember the goal of any direct training of the body in a new movement pattern is to eventually form a dominant habit, which means unconscious competence. If you have to "think about it" - it just means you need more practice, more reps - to make it a habit.

The million dollar question is how many more reps does one need to replace a dominant habit?

Great question....as usual, the answer is it depends on the golfer. Obviously a lot more reps than just learning a new move.

First you will be able to feel it happening when you actually do the new move. And video playback will show it happening more often as time goes by. Eventually it just happens every swing - a true habit - even when you are not looking for that feel.

ofortuna · December 5, 2016

Hi Jim, how do you ingrain a setup change? Do I just stand in the proper setup position for a long time concentrating on how it feels to be looking at the golf ball from a different perspective? I ask because this doesn't involve movement so slow-mo reps cannot be utilized.

I'm trying to make a habit of having more secondary tilt in my setup. When I video my swing, I see myself with a perfect setup but with each waggle, my setup changes a fraction of an inch closer and closer to my "comfortable" setup that I have ingrained over the years. By the time I start my swing, I'm completely back to my OLD setup. I guess my subconscious isn't confident that I can hit a good shot from the NEW setup position.

Any insights to facilitate making this change?

Jim Waldron · December 5, 2016

Hi Jim, how do you ingrain a setup change? Do I just stand in the proper setup position for a long time concentrating on how it feels to be looking at the golf ball from a different perspective? I ask because this doesn't involve movement so slow-mo reps cannot be utilized.

I'm trying to make a habit of having more secondary tilt in my setup. When I video my swing, I see myself with a perfect setup but with each waggle, my setup changes a fraction of an inch closer and closer to my "comfortable" setup that I have ingrained over the years. By the time I start my swing, I'm completely back to my OLD setup. I guess my subconscious isn't confident that I can hit a good shot from the NEW setup position.

Any insights to facilitate making this change?

Yes - you just pose in the mirror and have a checklist written down nearby to refer to, with the exact order of the Setup elements you are trying to ingrain. Also a photo of a tour pro handy at Setup for reference. You then pose in the proper position and look closely and "burn" the image into your brain. Close your eyes and Feel the sensations.

Awareness will act as an inhibitor to going back to your old Setup. When you lose that Awareness, your old posture will return.

Subconscious is quite stubborn - it needs to be trained. Means you have to be willing to be okay with feeling uncomfortable.

I see your exact issue all the time. I will say to the student "Stop! You just went back to your old Setup..." right before they pull the trigger. Eventually their Awareness kicks in and they will start the swing from the proper Tilt.

Ri_Redneck · December 5, 2016

I think the concepts about how to make a swing change by using feel channel and letting go of the conscious mind when executing a swing (ie not telling body parts to do things consciously) is revolutionary. You just don't see people analyzing the process of learning at this level every day. But this assumes that someone knows enough about their swing to know that he wants to go from point A to point B.

Now, if someone doesn't know what they're "doing wrong", the instructor has to first explain to the golfer that he's at point A, then comes the even more difficult task of describing the unimaginable point B that the golfer may have never experienced before. How is this done? By meticulous communication, telling body parts what to do, what not to do, get in this position, not in that position, visualizing where the body/club is in space, etc... and the golfer has to remember it all. This takes a lot of conscious thought. Once he understand point A and point B, he is then instructed to forget all the analysis and commanding body parts that he just went through the substantial effort to remember/understand. In fact, everything that he worked so hard to put into his brain, he is told, is now poison. Say what?

It's any wonder anyone ever makes a swing change successfully!

Great Thread!!!

I've always thought that, if a golfer with a swing problem has an instructor, they shouldn't be concerned with what they are doing wrong, but mostly focus on the solution to instructor gives them! I've seen many golfers that could not seem to get the "wrong move" out of their mind after finding out what it is. This causes them to have difficulty focusing on the new "good move".

BT

starsail85 · December 5, 2016

Hi Jim, how do you ingrain a setup change? Do I just stand in the proper setup position for a long time concentrating on how it feels to be looking at the golf ball from a different perspective? I ask because this doesn't involve movement so slow-mo reps cannot be utilized.

I'm trying to make a habit of having more secondary tilt in my setup. When I video my swing, I see myself with a perfect setup but with each waggle, my setup changes a fraction of an inch closer and closer to my "comfortable" setup that I have ingrained over the years. By the time I start my swing, I'm completely back to my OLD setup. I guess my subconscious isn't confident that I can hit a good shot from the NEW setup position.

Any insights to facilitate making this change?

Yes - you just pose in the mirror and have a checklist written down nearby to refer to, with the exact order of the Setup elements you are trying to ingrain. Also a photo of a tour pro handy at Setup for reference. You then pose in the proper position and look closely and "burn" the image into your brain. Close your eyes and Feel the sensations.

Awareness will act as an inhibitor to going back to your old Setup. When you lose that Awareness, your old posture will return.

Subconscious is quite stubborn - it needs to be trained. Means you have to be willing to be okay with feeling uncomfortable.

I see your exact issue all the time. I will say to the student "Stop! You just went back to your old Setup..." right before they pull the trigger. Eventually their Awareness kicks in and they will start the swing from the proper Tilt.

Jim

Do you think it is fair to say that following a step by step routine is key to forming a good and consistent set up ?

I know you advocate different forward bend levels depending on club length ? Should you set the arms on the chest and then forward bend until that particular club rests on the ground?

Jim Waldron · December 5, 2016

Hi Jim, how do you ingrain a setup change? Do I just stand in the proper setup position for a long time concentrating on how it feels to be looking at the golf ball from a different perspective? I ask because this doesn't involve movement so slow-mo reps cannot be utilized.

I'm trying to make a habit of having more secondary tilt in my setup. When I video my swing, I see myself with a perfect setup but with each waggle, my setup changes a fraction of an inch closer and closer to my "comfortable" setup that I have ingrained over the years. By the time I start my swing, I'm completely back to my OLD setup. I guess my subconscious isn't confident that I can hit a good shot from the NEW setup position.

Any insights to facilitate making this change?

Yes - you just pose in the mirror and have a checklist written down nearby to refer to, with the exact order of the Setup elements you are trying to ingrain. Also a photo of a tour pro handy at Setup for reference. You then pose in the proper position and look closely and "burn" the image into your brain. Close your eyes and Feel the sensations.

Awareness will act as an inhibitor to going back to your old Setup. When you lose that Awareness, your old posture will return.

Subconscious is quite stubborn - it needs to be trained. Means you have to be willing to be okay with feeling uncomfortable.

I see your exact issue all the time. I will say to the student "Stop! You just went back to your old Setup..." right before they pull the trigger. Eventually their Awareness kicks in and they will start the swing from the proper Tilt.

Jim

Do you think it is fair to say that following a step by step routine is key to forming a good and consistent set up ?

I know you advocate different forward bend levels depending on club length ? Should you set the arms on the chest and then forward bend until that particular club rests on the ground?

Yes, a Setup routine is a requirement for good golf. Can be mostly Feel though, your body seeking the right sensations. Visual on ball position and stance width.

Yes, arms on chest, and a bit of wrist c0ck, then bend forward from hip sockets till club is a bit off ground, from wrist c0cked. Then lower from wrist.