MacGregor shaft flexes

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone could help me out with information on the shaft flex numbering system that Macgregor used on certain shafts.

I've seen shafts with "1" and "2" on them, and have heard that "1" is stiff, "2" is regular, and there is also "3" to denote flexible.

First, how uniform were these flexes, bearing in mind that they seem to be attached to different makes of shafts?

Second, compared to modern shafts, just how stiff is "stiff"? For example, is it more comparable to DG X100, or S300?

 

For the record, I bought a 1980s reissue set of Mac VIPs last year with True Temper S300 shafts in them that felt stiffer to me than the current S300, so I'm wondering if the "1" is pretty close to X100.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

[baloo]

Depends on the type of shaft. I'm not an expert, but they had a few shafts that used that numbering convention that I've seen. In the Propels and MacGregor Tourney shafts the 1 plays like a modern x stiff IMO.

[raggal62]

Depends on the type of shaft. I'm not an expert, but they had a few shafts that used that numbering convention that I've seen. In the Propels and MacGregor Tourney shafts the 1 plays like a modern x stiff IMO.

Agree with baloo. The Propel's to me were especially more boardy feeling than their flex designation.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Thanks for the answers. I thought that might be the case. The thing is, I have seen these shaft designations on a Japanese auction site, but there isn't always a clear enough picture of the shaft label to figure out the shaft type. In the worst cases, the seller may give no more information about the shaft than "feels stiff". Well, helpful... :rolleyes:

 

Recent ones I have seen were a "Dynamic Steel" shaft with a "1" flex, and what the seller called a "Muirfield" shaft with a "1". It's a green label with "Dynamic" written on it, so a True Temper model. That being the case, I would assume it's pretty stiff.

[mahonie]

Thanks for the answers. I thought that might be the case. The thing is, I have seen these shaft designations on a Japanese auction site, but there isn't always a clear enough picture of the shaft label to figure out the shaft type. In the worst cases, the seller may give no more information about the shaft than "feels stiff". Well, helpful... :rolleyes:

 

Recent ones I have seen were a "Dynamic Steel" shaft with a "1" flex, and what the seller called a "Muirfield" shaft with a "1". It's a green label with "Dynamic" written on it, so a True Temper model. That being the case, I would assume it's pretty stiff.

 

My VIP Limited's have Mac Tourney Taper stepless shafts that are designated "1" Stiff. My shaft comparison experience is pretty limited...I've been playing S300s forever with a brief stint with some Rifle 5.5 Flighted shafts. Again, I've only had one round with the Macs, so I don't have much of a database to refer too. However, comparing the ballflight of the Macs loft-for-loft with my MP4s (with S300s) I would say that I hit the Macs a fair bit higher and the shaft definitely 'feels' smoother but still as stout as the S300s. The other thing I have noticed is that the Macs feel a lot heavier than the Mizzys. Perhaps this is why they feel smoother as I can take a smoother than normal swing knowing that I can still get the distance, if that makes sense.

 

Photo showing shaft band:

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Well, I took the plunge and bought a set of Mac Muirfields I was sniffing around. 1-SW, with matching ferrules on the 2i through to the SW. The last 2 digits on the 1i ferrule are different, but the rest is the same. There is a "Y" in the serial number, which may or may not be significant (lighter head?).

The shafts labels are green "Muirfield" labels #1 flex. The stepping is identical to the Velocitized Frequency Matched True Temper Dynamic 300-S shafts in my Muirifield 20ths, and they are also made by True Temper, so I suspect they are the same shaft. I hope so, because I get on very well with my Muirfield 20ths. Grips are original Victory Made for MacGregor (cordless).

These irons look like they have never been hit. The 1i, SW, and 5i still have inspection labels on them, or rather, they did have until I removed the one from the 1-iron. "Inspected by 23" and "Inspected by 12". I assume this was the Macgregor Factory labeling, or perhaps they were in fact inspected by Patrick McGoohan and his mates in The Village.

My only complaints are that the labels are pretty shoddily applied, and some of the ferrules appear to have eroded. Otherwise, I think I can say with some confidence that these are my first set of unused irons in over 20 years!

 

 

 

 

 

The pictures below show the different muscle pads, first the Muirfield, then the Muirfield 20th.

 

 

The following are comparisons of my Muirfield 20ths with the Muirifields. Muirfields are on the left.

 

The Muirfiled PW is more rounded compared to the Muirfield 20th PW. I think I prefer the Muirfield 20th, but it'll be interested to see how the Muirfield PW works with its more rounded leading edge.

 

[Jika]

Well, I took the plunge and bought a set of Mac Muirfields I was sniffing around. 1-SW, with matching ferrules on the 2i through to the SW. The last 2 digits on the 1i ferrule are different, but the rest is the same. There is a "Y" in the serial number, which may or may not be significant (lighter head?).

The shafts labels are green "Muirfield" labels #1 flex. The stepping is identical to the Velocitized Frequency Matched True Temper Dynamic 300-S shafts in my Muirifield 20ths, and they are also made by True Temper, so I suspect they are the same shaft. I hope so, because I get on very well with my Muirfield 20ths. Grips are original Victory Made for MacGregor (cordless).

These irons look like they have never been hit. The 1i, SW, and 5i still have inspection labels on them, or rather, they did have until I removed the one from the 1-iron. "Inspected by 23" and "Inspected by 12". I assume this was the Macgregor Factory labeling, or perhaps they were in fact inspected by Patrick McGoohan and his mates in The Village.

My only complaints are that the labels are pretty shoddily applied, and some of the ferrules appear to have eroded. Otherwise, I think I can say with some confidence that these are my few set of unused irons in over 20 years!

 

 

 

 

 

The pictures below show the different muscle pads, first the Muirfield, then the Muirfield 20th.

 

 

The following are comparisons of my Muirfield 20ths with the Muirifields. Muirfields are on the left.

 

The Muirfiled PW is more rounded compared to the Muirfield 20th PW. I think I prefer the Muirfield 20th, but it'll be interested to see how the Muirfield PW works with its more rounded leading edge.

 

Very nice pickup

[HoganApexBlades]

AMAZING!!!

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

The same seller also had a set of Colokrom Tour Forged 1-PW listed, but the condition wasn't as good. I was tempted to take a punt on those as well, but I have enough sets to be getting on with.

 

Edit: I'm pretty sure they were the Eighties reissue

[rex235]

Catchy-

 

Great pickup of a set of MacGregor Muirfields.... 1-SW.

 

Most likely "John Drake," or "The "Scarecrow of Romney Marsh"- Patrick McGoohan(RIP)wasn't involved with their inspection...

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Catchy-

 

Great pickup of a set of MacGregor Muirfields.... 1-SW.

 

Most likely "John Drake," or "The "Scarecrow of Romney Marsh"- Patrick McGoohan(RIP)wasn't involved with their inspection...

 

But I want to believe!

 

Incidentally, I looked up the Prisoner cast list, and there was an episode in which a Number 12 appeared, played by John Castle, who is now a well-known face on British TV:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0145284/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t42. Sadly, I didn't find a Number 23.

[NRJyzr]

Catchy-

 

Great pickup of a set of MacGregor Muirfields.... 1-SW.

 

Most likely "John Drake," or "The "Scarecrow of Romney Marsh"- Patrick McGoohan(RIP)wasn't involved with their inspection...

 

But I want to believe!

 

Incidentally, I looked up the Prisoner cast list, and there was an episode in which a Number 12 appeared, played by John Castle, who is now a well-known face on British TV:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0145284/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t42. Sadly, I didn't find a Number 23.

 

It was still an excellent reference :)

[BIG STU]

Depends on the type of shaft. I'm not an expert, but they had a few shafts that used that numbering convention that I've seen. In the Propels and MacGregor Tourney shafts the 1 plays like a modern x stiff IMO.

If you ever pull a Pro Pel out check this. First off naked it is heavier than any modern S-300. Look at the tip end it has less steps than a modern DG also the walls of the shaft are thicker than a modern DG

 

PP1= S-400 X-100

PP2= a stiffer S-300

pp3= a stiffer R-300 or 200

 

Most of the 80s reproduction VIPs like the 2 sets I have came with the Brunswick 7.0s which are the fore runner of the Rifle Flighted series and they are stiff stock from the factory.

 

Muirfields are a strange animal as far as shafts. Depending on the year excluding the 20th models they are hard to define what year they are. I have seen them from the factory with the 7.0 Brunswicks or S-300s. But the 300s will check on the deflection board or CPM machine darn near as stiff as a 7.0. I have a set of Muirfields that I have played around 4 rounds with that have S-300s in them and they are STIFF. Now I have not torn these down and worked with them yet but I have looked at the steps on the shaft and they do appear to be hard stepped. I do not think they may be the original shafts because the ferules appear to be stock but no serial numbers and I have gotten 2 different stories about the past on those irons. On those I am planning to soft step them since I can still hit a S-300 with a little weight added low to kick them some. The VIPs with the 7.0s I am pulling those and I am giving them to Juice 25 on here. I think he is young and strong enough to handle them. I aint got enough lead in my old pencil to swing a 7.0 for long

[BIG STU]

Well, I took the plunge and bought a set of Mac Muirfields I was sniffing around. 1-SW, with matching ferrules on the 2i through to the SW. The last 2 digits on the 1i ferrule are different, but the rest is the same. There is a "Y" in the serial number, which may or may not be significant (lighter head?).

The shafts labels are green "Muirfield" labels #1 flex. The stepping is identical to the Velocitized Frequency Matched True Temper Dynamic 300-S shafts in my Muirifield 20ths, and they are also made by True Temper, so I suspect they are the same shaft. I hope so, because I get on very well with my Muirfield 20ths. Grips are original Victory Made for MacGregor (cordless).

These irons look like they have never been hit. The 1i, SW, and 5i still have inspection labels on them, or rather, they did have until I removed the one from the 1-iron. "Inspected by 23" and "Inspected by 12". I assume this was the Macgregor Factory labeling, or perhaps they were in fact inspected by Patrick McGoohan and his mates in The Village.

My only complaints are that the labels are pretty shoddily applied, and some of the ferrules appear to have eroded. Otherwise, I think I can say with some confidence that these are my first set of unused irons in over 20 years!

 

 

 

 

 

The pictures below show the different muscle pads, first the Muirfield, then the Muirfield 20th.

 

 

The following are comparisons of my Muirfield 20ths with the Muirifields. Muirfields are on the left.

 

The Muirfiled PW is more rounded compared to the Muirfield 20th PW. I think I prefer the Muirfield 20th, but it'll be interested to see how the Muirfield PW works with its more rounded leading edge.

 

Like I said in my previous post Muirfields are a strange bird in the Macgregor club world beautiful but strange . Like you showed in your pics the 20th have a squared toe like a VIP but do not have as much muscle as a VIP. The non 20th like mine have the VIP muscle like the 67 or 80 reproduction Vips but a rounded toe. Personally for play for me I like the non 20th ones because they have a more rounded leading edge through out the set and set up for me just like a 80 remake VIP which as you know are my Holy Grail clubs.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Thanks for the information, BIG STU, especially on the ProPel shafts, which I see on older clubs but know nothing about.

I've got S-300s in both the Muirfields and Muirfield 20ths, but they are probably a bit stouter than a modern S300. I like them, anyway, and that's the main thing.

Last night I had a "Mac night" at the range. I took the PW, 7i, and 4i from my Muirfields, Muirfield 20ths, and MT Tourney Tour Forged (1980-1983), and the 4i, 7i and 9i from my VIPs (I don't use the PW. More on that in a moment).

The MT Tourneys are reshafted with DG X100 at +1/4", and the VIPs have PX 6.0 at +1/4". Interesting comparison. I think the two Muirfield versions are my favourites, and there's very little difference between them, except the PW. The PW in the Muirfield has a rounder leading edge, and rounder toe, as you pointed out. It's more wedge-like. The Muirfield 20th PW is close in shape to the 9i. It's great for full shots, but harder to play shots in between. The original Muirfield PW is more versatile. For example, it can be opened up a bit to hit high 3/4 shots, a shot that's tough to pull off with the 20th PW.

 

The VIP set I have is, I am pretty sure, a mid-80s edition made for the Japanese market. It has reverse offset: the short irons are more offset than the long irons. Also, the 8i~PW heads are pretty large, like a lot of Japanese irons from that timeframe. I only got the 3i~9i reshafted, as the PW and SW were unplayable for me. Way too much offset. To be honest, the 9i is pushing the limit for me. Great feeling irons, but I could do without that offset.

[BIG STU]

Thanks for the information, BIG STU, especially on the ProPel shafts, which I see on older clubs but know nothing about.

I've got S-300s in both the Muirfields and Muirfield 20ths, but they are probably a bit stouter than a modern S300. I like them, anyway, and that's the main thing.

Last night I had a "Mac night" at the range. I took the PW, 7i, and 4i from my Muirfields, Muirfield 20ths, and MT Tourney Tour Forged (1980-1983), and the 4i, 7i and 9i from my VIPs (I don't use the PW. More on that in a moment).

The MT Tourneys are reshafted with DG X100 at +1/4", and the VIPs have PX 6.0 at +1/4". Interesting comparison. I think the two Muirfield versions are my favourites, and there's very little difference between them, except the PW. The PW in the Muirfield has a rounder leading edge, and rounder toe, as you pointed out. It's more wedge-like. The Muirfield 20th PW is close in shape to the 9i. It's great for full shots, but harder to play shots in between. The original Muirfield PW is more versatile. For example, it can be opened up a bit to hit high 3/4 shots, a shot that's tough to pull off with the 20th PW.

 

The VIP set I have is, I am pretty sure, a mid-80s edition made for the Japanese market. It has reverse offset: the short irons are more offset than the long irons. Also, the 8i~PW heads are pretty large, like a lot of Japanese irons from that timeframe. I only got the 3i~9i reshafted, as the PW and SW were unplayable for me. Way too much offset. To be honest, the 9i is pushing the limit for me. Great feeling irons, but I could do without that offset.

I do not know a lot about the ones made for the Japanese market but some of the sand wedges have different offset. I have on 56* VIP sand wedge given to me by no other than Curtis Strange and it is one of his personal ones made and ground to his specs. It does have too much offset for me though. Now like I have said before the Muirfields are a strange bird in the Macgregor world. Some have different bounce and leading edges from what I have seen. The ones I have look just like both sets of 80 VIPs I have with different stampings of course. Same offset and leading edge. I do have a 20th PW that I got from GW a couple of years ago trust me I tried to find the whole set and it has a rounder grind on the leading edge not as much "butter knife" effect

[resnor]

I have a set of Tommy Armour CF4000s, stamped SS1. Does the SS1 denote the shaft flex? The shaft bands are mostly gone, but I can make it that they are True Temper Tourney shafts.

[Fellaheen51]

In general, yes. Per Kaplan, 1959 TA FC4000 SS1 irons......."Fitted with MacGregor's Pro-Pel Action No. 1 shaft, a firm, medium-stiff pattern designed for the top professional or amateur. Subsequent years, do not descriptively reference the shafts.

[HoganApexBlades]

I have a set of Tommy Armour CF4000s, stamped SS1. Does the SS1 denote the shaft flex? The shaft bands are mostly gone, but I can make it that they are True Temper Tourney shafts.

 

Those SS1 "Diamondbacks" were the first set of irons Jack used on tour until switching to "V.I.P.'s bY_Nicklaus" in '66/'67...