Tiger trackman data Honda Classic

[goodvibes]

NO WAY!! Trackman's on TOUR always read a little fast in my opinion, especially this time!

Take a look at Trackman.com's data on players from their personal practice/fitting sessions and compare it to their speeds in tournaments on TV. It's always been 2-4MPH high on TV and I have mounds of data to prove it!!

So that still makes his swing speed low to mid 120's mph swing speed if you take account of your so called proved data. Still doesn't make it much of a different does it?

Adding 4-8 MPH in the 120's is astronomically hard. Heck, even at 110, it's incredibly difficult.

I truly don't care enough to dig to find all the data I've scoured over the past couple years, so if you'll actually just give me the benefit of the doubt, here's a couple highlights...

- While testing the New (at the time) PING G30 at PING HQ, PING was bragging that Bubba's SS increased 1.5mph due to improved aerodynamics. They even showed his stats to prove it. He "improved" to 121 on their Trackman but his avg TOUR SS that year was 124.5.

- Seen Justin Thomas's Trackman stats from a driver fitting session w/ Titleist and 75% of his shots were 116mph with the high at 118...he averages much more than that on TOUR.

- The Oven at old Nike HQ, showed a spec sheet of Rory's driver fitting session and he was within 1mph of 117 (Trackman) the whole session...obviously we know his TOUR avg is faster than that.

- Seen similar data on DJ, Jason Day, Jordan Spieth and many others.

I know JT and Rory may be a touch faster now, but even at the time it was well below their TOUR avg...

Take it for what it's worth. Maybe not much. Haha

 

My understanding is that on course swings are always a little faster than the range.

and something that is a problem for tiger who usually stripes it at the range. I also don't think he'll ever have the top smash factor in the field. He's not hitting up and spinning it a ton. He's plenty long enough. Should be more accurate doing that and may be why he never changed but...

[bbp1]

Driver distance, fairways hit, degree of fairway misses is all that matters. Rest is fluff. If he can’t hit that M3 straight there’s issues

[geno4952]

Okay... maybe it's me but just what the hell does all this crap mean anyway?? So he swings at 128 mph but his ball speed isn't right or his smash factor is messed up..... who really cares?... what difference could it possibly make in his golfing career... why not just sit back and watch and see how this comeback goes... I for one don't care one way or the other if he plays another 20 years or 20 weeks... he has nothing to prove except that he has a great attitude and determination to do the best he can... he surely doesn't need the money.....

[Sean2]

In the end, the only thing that matters is how many shots it took to get the ball in the hole, whether one's swing speed is 128 or 108. The announcers are always oohing and ahhing, over how far a drive went, or that player "x" hit a 7-iron on that 210 yard par 3. Yes, it might be interesting, but the player still has to get the ball in the hole. Sometimes it seems golf is becoming a distance game as opposed to a scoring one.

[geno4952]

In the end, the only thing that matters is how many shots it took to get the ball in the hole, whether one's swing speed is 128 or 108. The announcers are always oohing and ahhing, over how far a drive went, or that player "x" hit a 7-iron on that 210 yard par 3. Yes, it might be interesting, but the player still has to get the ball in the hole. Sometimes it seems golf is becoming a distance game as opposed to a scoring one.

 

Amen to that.... can't figure how all of a sudden a 7 iron is good for 210 anyway... mine is 165 ish.. maybe it's cuz their 7 iron has a 5 iron loft???? But you are correct.... it's not how it's how many......Edit: I was being slightly facetious about the lofts on the newer irons but what do I find at the Taylor Made website... my 5 iron is 28* and the new 2017 M2 7 iron is 28.5*... no shiznit.. the 7 is a 5 after all .......

[Vegaman]

His smash factor ranked 110th or so. Not a recipe for great contact. He should swing 116-118 like Rahm and Justin Thomas and then he'd actually hit fairways

Work in progress. Getting speed up first is usually priority number 1. If you swing 'slowly' you might never get explosive ability back again, since it withers fast. Precision hopefully will come along later.

[Sean2]

In the end, the only thing that matters is how many shots it took to get the ball in the hole, whether one's swing speed is 128 or 108. The announcers are always oohing and ahhing, over how far a drive went, or that player "x" hit a 7-iron on that 210 yard par 3. Yes, it might be interesting, but the player still has to get the ball in the hole. Sometimes it seems golf is becoming a distance game as opposed to a scoring one.

 

Amen to that.... can't figure how all of a sudden a 7 iron is good for 210 anyway... mine is 165 ish.. maybe it's cuz their 7 iron has a 5 iron loft???? But you are correct.... it's not how it's how many......Edit: I was being slightly facetious about the lofts on the newer irons but what do I find at the Taylor Made website... my 5 iron is 28* and the new 2017 M2 7 iron is 28.5*... no shiznit.. the 7 is a 5 after all .......

 

And some people wonder why they can't hit a 5-iron...well at 21.5º... lol

[Christosterone]

Here are a couple of sea level shots from the days when players reported their own distances and the broadcasters displayed it...

 

-Chris

[jus711]

The smash factor says it all. It’s over stating the clubhead speed. Do you know how bad you have to hit it to get 1.41 with a modern driver. Literally isn’t going to happen with where those balls actually went. Clubhead speed data won’t be accurate unless unit is directly behind the player. The launch data at times is laughably wrong.

 

 

Looking at the numbers I’d bet a good sum of money they moved the unit/tee on the weekend which is why you see the inflated clubhead speed while the ball speed stayed the same. Again radar will absolutely give bad club data when not setup behind a player.

 

For all you Smash Factor “truthers” Sam Ryder is averaging 1.433 smash factor and is also currently 5th in GIR this is over 26 rounds which is a pretty good sample. Pat Perez is averaging 1.440 smash factor and is 9th in GIR over 28 rounds, they’re good ball strikers. Perhaps it’s possible to be a good ball striker but have low smash factors on trackman because of how you strike the ball.

[sonnygolf]

In the end, the only thing that matters is how many shots it took to get the ball in the hole, whether one's swing speed is 128 or 108. The announcers are always oohing and ahhing, over how far a drive went, or that player "x" hit a 7-iron on that 210 yard par 3. Yes, it might be interesting, but the player still has to get the ball in the hole. Sometimes it seems golf is becoming a distance game as opposed to a scoring one.

 

You expect him to win after taking off 3 years in the game? You seem to miss the crux of the post. He was NOT supposed to be able to swing this far ever again. 99% of this forum wrote him off and said he would be lucky to hang anywhere near 40yards of Rory and DJ. Now all of a sudden they are panicking and saying trackman is wrong. Funny that because trackman had always been right when it was about about DJ and Rorys numbers LMAO!

 

I sense a lot of panic amongst the naysayers hahaha!

[GMR]

In the end, the only thing that matters is how many shots it took to get the ball in the hole, whether one's swing speed is 128 or 108. The announcers are always oohing and ahhing, over how far a drive went, or that player "x" hit a 7-iron on that 210 yard par 3. Yes, it might be interesting, but the player still has to get the ball in the hole. Sometimes it seems golf is becoming a distance game as opposed to a scoring one.

I agree with you that the oohing and ahhing about DJ hitting a 9i into a 210yd par 3 and the like is silly. However, Tiger is a somewhat special circumstance here in that 12 months ago he was a total question mark and many in the golfing community that that IF he came back he'd likely be playing Jim Furyk-like "old man" golf. So the fact that he's in the upper echelon on tour in swing speed is actually more notable for his future prospects more than what he shot on Sunday as he knocks the rust off. Now that he's established he's back among the elite in distance on tour I think less and less should be made of it--though to be fair it is still incredible given his age and what he's gone through so it's not going to go away entirely.

[iteachgolf]

The smash factor says it all. It’s over stating the clubhead speed. Do you know how bad you have to hit it to get 1.41 with a modern driver. Literally isn’t going to happen with where those balls actually went. Clubhead speed data won’t be accurate unless unit is directly behind the player. The launch data at times is laughably wrong.

 

 

Looking at the numbers I’d bet a good sum of money they moved the unit/tee on the weekend which is why you see the inflated clubhead speed while the ball speed stayed the same. Again radar will absolutely give bad club data when not setup behind a player.

 

For all you Smash Factor “truthers” Sam Ryder is averaging 1.433 smash factor and is also currently 5th in GIR this is over 26 rounds which is a pretty good sample. Pat Perez is averaging 1.440 smash factor and is 9th in GIR over 28 rounds, they’re good ball strikers. Perhaps it’s possible to be a good ball striker but have low smash factors on trackman because of how you strike the ball.

 

Again I’m on the advisory board of a launch monitor companya d I teach players who’ve won on every major tour worldwide. I also use radar launch monitors every day. I know exactly what is going on. If you want to continue to quote me and call me out it is you who is going to look foolish. They have low smash factors because the clubhead speed data is inaccurate. It’s inaccurate for all players. Nobody said it was only inaccurate for Tiger.

[jus711]

The smash factor says it all. It’s over stating the clubhead speed. Do you know how bad you have to hit it to get 1.41 with a modern driver. Literally isn’t going to happen with where those balls actually went. Clubhead speed data won’t be accurate unless unit is directly behind the player. The launch data at times is laughably wrong.

 

 

Looking at the numbers I’d bet a good sum of money they moved the unit/tee on the weekend which is why you see the inflated clubhead speed while the ball speed stayed the same. Again radar will absolutely give bad club data when not setup behind a player.

 

For all you Smash Factor “truthers” Sam Ryder is averaging 1.433 smash factor and is also currently 5th in GIR this is over 26 rounds which is a pretty good sample. Pat Perez is averaging 1.440 smash factor and is 9th in GIR over 28 rounds, they’re good ball strikers. Perhaps it’s possible to be a good ball striker but have low smash factors on trackman because of how you strike the ball.

 

Again I’m on the advisory board of a launch monitor companya d I teach players who’ve won on every major tour worldwide. I also use radar launch monitors every day. I know exactly what is going on. If you want to continue to quote me and call me out it is you who is going to look foolish. They have low smash factors because the clubhead speed data is inaccurate. It’s inaccurate for all players. Nobody said it was only inaccurate for Tiger.

 

That I can accept, but isn’t it still likely he was swinging the fastest this weekend no matter what the true numbers are? That was my overall point. They move the the tee everyday, so he couldn’t have been the only one to find the magic spot to get an extra 5-10 mph clubhead speed everyday. If we’re saying that the data is faulty for all players then ok, though I still think it’s interesting to examine why that is, some players are getting 1.5 smash factors nearly every time and some players are getting 1.45 and below nearly every time even over large samples, and we know they all can play, Pat Perez over 28 rounds doesn’t have one swing over 1.458. Something’s up.

[iteachgolf]

The smash factor says it all. It’s over stating the clubhead speed. Do you know how bad you have to hit it to get 1.41 with a modern driver. Literally isn’t going to happen with where those balls actually went. Clubhead speed data won’t be accurate unless unit is directly behind the player. The launch data at times is laughably wrong.

 

 

Looking at the numbers I’d bet a good sum of money they moved the unit/tee on the weekend which is why you see the inflated clubhead speed while the ball speed stayed the same. Again radar will absolutely give bad club data when not setup behind a player.

 

For all you Smash Factor “truthers” Sam Ryder is averaging 1.433 smash factor and is also currently 5th in GIR this is over 26 rounds which is a pretty good sample. Pat Perez is averaging 1.440 smash factor and is 9th in GIR over 28 rounds, they’re good ball strikers. Perhaps it’s possible to be a good ball striker but have low smash factors on trackman because of how you strike the ball.

 

Again I’m on the advisory board of a launch monitor companya d I teach players who’ve won on every major tour worldwide. I also use radar launch monitors every day. I know exactly what is going on. If you want to continue to quote me and call me out it is you who is going to look foolish. They have low smash factors because the clubhead speed data is inaccurate. It’s inaccurate for all players. Nobody said it was only inaccurate for Tiger.

 

That I can accept, but isn’t it still likely he was swinging the fastest this weekend no matter what the true numbers are? That was my overall point. They move the the tee everyday, so he couldn’t have been the only one to find the magic spot to get an extra 5-10 mph clubhead speed everyday. If we’re saying that the data is faulty for all players then ok, though I still think it’s interesting to examine why that is, some players are getting 1.5 smash factors nearly every time and some players are getting 1.45 and below nearly every time even over large samples, and we know they all can play, Pat Perez over 28 rounds doesn’t have one swing over 1.458. Something’s up.

 

Clubhead design matters too. Certain shapes will read differently. M3/4 reads high IMO, have seen it with 10 different players playing that same driver. A lot of the older ping drivers read low and give inflated smash factors of 1.52-1.53. The radar is measuring the speed of the COM, not the face, so how a clubhead is designed and where it sees the COM affects the speed it measures. It’s extremely accurate at measuring the speed of the COM, but due to different driver designs the speed of the clubface and the COM aren’t the same and some are more different than others.

 

I literally already said this and this is a well known phenomenon but you keep ignoring me to try and prove yourself right. Tiger was likely the fastest player swinging an m3/4 driver. Doesn’t mean he’s necessarily the fastest player in the field.

[jus711]

The smash factor says it all. It’s over stating the clubhead speed. Do you know how bad you have to hit it to get 1.41 with a modern driver. Literally isn’t going to happen with where those balls actually went. Clubhead speed data won’t be accurate unless unit is directly behind the player. The launch data at times is laughably wrong.

 

 

Looking at the numbers I’d bet a good sum of money they moved the unit/tee on the weekend which is why you see the inflated clubhead speed while the ball speed stayed the same. Again radar will absolutely give bad club data when not setup behind a player.

 

For all you Smash Factor “truthers” Sam Ryder is averaging 1.433 smash factor and is also currently 5th in GIR this is over 26 rounds which is a pretty good sample. Pat Perez is averaging 1.440 smash factor and is 9th in GIR over 28 rounds, they’re good ball strikers. Perhaps it’s possible to be a good ball striker but have low smash factors on trackman because of how you strike the ball.

 

Again I’m on the advisory board of a launch monitor companya d I teach players who’ve won on every major tour worldwide. I also use radar launch monitors every day. I know exactly what is going on. If you want to continue to quote me and call me out it is you who is going to look foolish. They have low smash factors because the clubhead speed data is inaccurate. It’s inaccurate for all players. Nobody said it was only inaccurate for Tiger.

 

That I can accept, but isn’t it still likely he was swinging the fastest this weekend no matter what the true numbers are? That was my overall point. They move the the tee everyday, so he couldn’t have been the only one to find the magic spot to get an extra 5-10 mph clubhead speed everyday. If we’re saying that the data is faulty for all players then ok, though I still think it’s interesting to examine why that is, some players are getting 1.5 smash factors nearly every time and some players are getting 1.45 and below nearly every time even over large samples, and we know they all can play, Pat Perez over 28 rounds doesn’t have one swing over 1.458. Something’s up.

 

Clubhead design matters too. Certain shapes will read differently. M3/4 reads high IMO, have seen it with 10 different players playing that same driver. A lot of the older ping drivers read low and give inflated smash factors of 1.52-1.53. The radar is measuring the speed of the COM, not the face, so how a clubhead is designed and where it sees the COM affects the speed it measures. It’s extremely accurate at measuring the speed of the COM, but due to different driver designs the speed of the clubface and the COM aren’t the same and some are more different than others.

 

I literally already said this and this is a well known phenomenon but you keep ignoring me to try and prove yourself right. Tiger was likely the fastest player swinging an m3/4 driver. Doesn’t mean he’s necessarily the fastest player in the field.

 

Tiger was playing an m3 the first two weeks too and was consistently 118-120, Rory plays an m3 now and didn’t register a 128 or 127 this week nor did he last year with TM drivers. Pat Perez plays PXG and Sam Ryder plays a Srixon driver, so what explains their consistently low smash? Sergio plays Callway and has consistently had high clubhead speed/low ball speed and thus low smash consistently for years, same with Stenson who also plays Callaway. I’m not trying to start or continue an argument I’m just trying to understand because I find the data interesting. Are you honestly saying you’ve never noticed a pattern for lower ball speeds and smash relative to clubhead speed for players who hit down? I’ve heard that theory for a long time and you seem to be suggesting there’s no weight to it. I understand the monitor is reading the ball and then estimating clubhead speed based on a range of variables, I’m just trying to understand why it’s consistently miscalculating for certain players, is it a flaw in the technology?

[iteachgolf]

 

For all you Smash Factor “truthers” Sam Ryder is averaging 1.433 smash factor and is also currently 5th in GIR this is over 26 rounds which is a pretty good sample. Pat Perez is averaging 1.440 smash factor and is 9th in GIR over 28 rounds, they’re good ball strikers. Perhaps it’s possible to be a good ball striker but have low smash factors on trackman because of how you strike the ball.

 

Again I’m on the advisory board of a launch monitor companya d I teach players who’ve won on every major tour worldwide. I also use radar launch monitors every day. I know exactly what is going on. If you want to continue to quote me and call me out it is you who is going to look foolish. They have low smash factors because the clubhead speed data is inaccurate. It’s inaccurate for all players. Nobody said it was only inaccurate for Tiger.

 

That I can accept, but isn’t it still likely he was swinging the fastest this weekend no matter what the true numbers are? That was my overall point. They move the the tee everyday, so he couldn’t have been the only one to find the magic spot to get an extra 5-10 mph clubhead speed everyday. If we’re saying that the data is faulty for all players then ok, though I still think it’s interesting to examine why that is, some players are getting 1.5 smash factors nearly every time and some players are getting 1.45 and below nearly every time even over large samples, and we know they all can play, Pat Perez over 28 rounds doesn’t have one swing over 1.458. Something’s up.

 

Clubhead design matters too. Certain shapes will read differently. M3/4 reads high IMO, have seen it with 10 different players playing that same driver. A lot of the older ping drivers read low and give inflated smash factors of 1.52-1.53. The radar is measuring the speed of the COM, not the face, so how a clubhead is designed and where it sees the COM affects the speed it measures. It’s extremely accurate at measuring the speed of the COM, but due to different driver designs the speed of the clubface and the COM aren’t the same and some are more different than others.

 

I literally already said this and this is a well known phenomenon but you keep ignoring me to try and prove yourself right. Tiger was likely the fastest player swinging an m3/4 driver. Doesn’t mean he’s necessarily the fastest player in the field.

 

Tiger was playing an m3 the first two weeks too and was consistently 118-120, Rory plays TM now and didn’t register a 128 or 127 this week nor did he last year with TM drivers. Pat Perez plays PXG and Sam Ryder plays a Srixon driver, so what explains their consistently low smash? Sergio plays Callway and has consistently had high clubhead speed/low ball speed and thus low smash consistently for years, same with Stenson who also plays Callaway. I’m not trying to start or continue an argument I’m just trying to understand because I find the data interesting. Are you honestly saying you’ve never noticed a pattern for lower ball speeds and smash relative to clubhead speed for players who hit down? I’ve heard that theory for a long time and you seem to be suggesting there’s no weight to it.

 

No I haven’t. I see that many players who hit down suck. So they have a lower smash factor regardless. Good players who hit down still produce optimal smash factors. Could post literally thousands of shots with optimum smash factors with negative attack angle.

 

You obviously are trying to argue. I’m telling you different heads will read differently. I’ve watched TM4 give a player 1.6 smash factor consistently which is literally impossible. The speed of the face and the speed of what the radar sees as the COM isn’t the same. It’s why toe hits read low on clubhead speed is because the toe of the club is moving faster than the COM. Heel hits will over read clubhead speed for opposite reasons. Which is while you’ll see differences in smash factor. Clubheads which have elongated shapes where the COM is further behind the face of the club will have bigger differences. To accurately measure smash factor you’d need to measure the speed of the impact point of the face. Which radar doesn’t do.

[iteachgolf]

It’s not estimating speed. It’s measuring the speed, just the speed of a different part of the clubhead than the face.

[Ping Zings]

It's not estimating speed. It's measuring the speed, just the speed of a different part of the clubhead than the face.

 

Thanks, I did not know that.

[jus711]

It’s not estimating speed. It’s measuring the speed, just the speed of a different part of the clubhead than the face.

 

I’m really not trying to argue, whether or not he’s swinging at 122 or 128 doesn’t really matter because either way he’s at an elite level and I thought we’d never see that again. Hopefully it translates into some great golf because I miss that from him. I defer to your knowledge and I appreciate your input because I like to learn. My understanding of launch monitors and Doppler radar was different but perhaps the literature I’ve read has been incorrect or not as thorough.

[iteachgolf]

It’s not estimating speed. It’s measuring the speed, just the speed of a different part of the clubhead than the face.

 

I’m really not trying to argue, whether or not he’s swinging at 122 or 128 doesn’t really matter because either way he’s at an elite level and I thought we’d never see that again. Hopefully it translates into some great golf because I miss that from him. I defer to your knowledge and I appreciate your input because I like to learn. My understanding of launch monitors and Doppler radar was different but perhaps the literature I’ve read has been incorrect or not as thorough.

 

The radar is tracking both the ball and the club. That graphic is

inaccurate and massively over simplified

[jus711]

It’s not estimating speed. It’s measuring the speed, just the speed of a different part of the clubhead than the face.

 

I’m really not trying to argue, whether or not he’s swinging at 122 or 128 doesn’t really matter because either way he’s at an elite level and I thought we’d never see that again. Hopefully it translates into some great golf because I miss that from him. I defer to your knowledge and I appreciate your input because I like to learn. My understanding of launch monitors and Doppler radar was different but perhaps the literature I’ve read has been incorrect or not as thorough.

 

The radar is tracking both the ball and the club. That graphic is

inaccurate and massively over simplified

 

Says known parameters of the club not clubhead speed. ??‍♂️

[jus711]

This explains it, I get it now.

 

https://blog.trackmangolf.com/tracking-club-ball/

[geno4952]

Just sitting here reading all these posts about clubhead speed. smash factor, angle of attack and so on ad-nausea..... I wonder how we played this game from 1457 until about 10-15 years ago without knowing all this seemingly critical information.... I'm even sorry I ended up getting a GPS range finder.... took all the feel out of my game.....damn

[Sean2]

In the end, the only thing that matters is how many shots it took to get the ball in the hole, whether one's swing speed is 128 or 108. The announcers are always oohing and ahhing, over how far a drive went, or that player "x" hit a 7-iron on that 210 yard par 3. Yes, it might be interesting, but the player still has to get the ball in the hole. Sometimes it seems golf is becoming a distance game as opposed to a scoring one.

I agree with you that the oohing and ahhing about DJ hitting a 9i into a 210yd par 3 and the like is silly. However, Tiger is a somewhat special circumstance here in that 12 months ago he was a total question mark and many in the golfing community that that IF he came back he'd likely be playing Jim Furyk-like "old man" golf. So the fact that he's in the upper echelon on tour in swing speed is actually more notable for his future prospects more than what he shot on Sunday as he knocks the rust off. Now that he's established he's back among the elite in distance on tour I think less and less should be made of it--though to be fair it is still incredible given his age and what he's gone through so it's not going to go away entirely.

 

Good point!

[Benkross]

His smash factor ranked 110th or so. Not a recipe for great contact. He should swing 116-118 like Rahm and Justin Thomas and then he'd actually hit fairways

 

To get to 116mph, JT swings out of his shoes, literally. I am a big fan of JT but as a guy with slight body he will be susceptible for the same kinda injuries that are starting to pile up on Day & Rory.

 

I am convinced that longevity of the current generation of players is going to much shorter than previous generations but I think that is fine considering how much money they make.

 

JT does swing out of his shoes, but he can do it with control. While he might miss fairways, he's remarkably straight for such a max effort swinger. Tiger is so much stronger than JT and most others that he could keep the same tempo, but swing without much effort to achieve the same SS as JT and then that smash factor would go up, as he could keep the face square longer. Agree that this new trend on swinging stupid hard, even on short shots, is going to shorten careers. One thing that mitigates that is how much better physical condition these guys are in - however, Rory seems to have overdone it and may be sacrificing flexibility and his connective tissues may not be suited to the amount of muscle he's added. Your tendons are what they are and no amount of training helps that. Between the working out and the stretching, better nutrition etc, it'll be interesting to see. I think that Day's injury problems are also due to his swing which has almost no lateral movement. If you watch a side-by-side of Rory and Day, Rory comes off the ball a little, which I think relieves his back a little, while Day has almost no movement. I suffer from sciatica and swinging like Day kills my back, while swinging like Rory is easier (obviously not as well).

[Benkross]

Just sitting here reading all these posts about clubhead speed. smash factor, angle of attack and so on ad-nausea..... I wonder how we played this game from 1457 until about 10-15 years ago without knowing all this seemingly critical information.... I'm even sorry I ended up getting a GPS range finder.... took all the feel out of my game.....damn

While feel is important, I think that you have to be a very gifted athlete to play exceptionally well on feel alone. For me, my game improved when I practiced hitting distances, windows and building a repeatable swing without fatal mistakes. I feel like now I hit very few pure shots, but with more predictable results. In my late teens, I was much more a feel player and hit way more pure shots, but didn't score as well.

[Benkross]

The smash factor says it all. It's over stating the clubhead speed. Do you know how bad you have to hit it to get 1.41 with a modern driver. Literally isn't going to happen with where those balls actually went. Clubhead speed data won't be accurate unless unit is directly behind the player. The launch data at times is laughably wrong.

 

 

Looking at the numbers I'd bet a good sum of money they moved the unit/tee on the weekend which is why you see the inflated clubhead speed while the ball speed stayed the same. Again radar will absolutely give bad club data when not setup behind a player.

 

For all you Smash Factor "truthers" Sam Ryder is averaging 1.433 smash factor and is also currently 5th in GIR this is over 26 rounds which is a pretty good sample. Pat Perez is averaging 1.440 smash factor and is 9th in GIR over 28 rounds, they're good ball strikers. Perhaps it's possible to be a good ball striker but have low smash factors on trackman because of how you strike the ball.

Smash factor only matters on Driver/Driving. Irons will have very low smash factors so they shouldn't even be counted. You don't need to be a great driver of the ball to hit a lot of greens. You can make your life easier by driving it a long way and putting wedges in your hands all the time, but guys like Brian Harmon who are really short hit a fair number of greens by being really good with long irons.

[geno4952]

Just sitting here reading all these posts about clubhead speed. smash factor, angle of attack and so on ad-nausea..... I wonder how we played this game from 1457 until about 10-15 years ago without knowing all this seemingly critical information.... I'm even sorry I ended up getting a GPS range finder.... took all the feel out of my game.....damn

While feel is important, I think that you have to be a very gifted athlete to play exceptionally well on feel alone. For me, my game improved when I practiced hitting distances, windows and building a repeatable swing without fatal mistakes. I feel like now I hit very few pure shots, but with more predictable results. In my late teens, I was much more a feel player and hit way more pure shots, but didn't score as well.

 

Back in the day, (I'm 65) we didn't have any devices to assist us with yardage. Feel was extremely important. I didn't start playing until I was 29, went from about a 16 hdcp to 4 in 10 yrs, lost my job at 39 and became a PGA Professional. I worked as a club pro for over 20yrs. My point being I never even got a range finder until after I retired and I stayed relatively competitive for quite a while. I don't hit many pure shots either but I still try to use as much feel as I can muster. If I am between 145 and 155 yds it's an 8 iron, (old school loft of 40* like my 845"s were) either a hard one, a stock one, or an easier one. I guess if I had all that other stuff in my head I would be a basket case.                                                                                                                                                                                             EDIT: Still have the 845's since 1987... they come out of hiding every so often and they still work as well as they did 30 yrs ago. Just too stiff now. often think of re-shafting them with graphite but then they wouldn't be original.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Peace

[Marco]

His smash factor ranked 110th or so. Not a recipe for great contact. He should swing 116-118 like Rahm and Justin Thomas and then he'd actually hit fairways

 

To get to 116mph, JT swings out of his shoes, literally. I am a big fan of JT but as a guy with slight body he will be susceptible for the same kinda injuries that are starting to pile up on Day & Rory.

 

I am convinced that longevity of the current generation of players is going to much shorter than previous generations but I think that is fine considering how much money they make.

 

JT does swing out of his shoes, but he can do it with control. While he might miss fairways, he's remarkably straight for such a max effort swinger. Tiger is so much stronger than JT and most others that he could keep the same tempo, but swing without much effort to achieve the same SS as JT and then that smash factor would go up, as he could keep the face square longer. Agree that this new trend on swinging stupid hard, even on short shots, is going to shorten careers. One thing that mitigates that is how much better physical condition these guys are in - however, Rory seems to have overdone it and may be sacrificing flexibility and his connective tissues may not be suited to the amount of muscle he's added. Your tendons are what they are and no amount of training helps that. Between the working out and the stretching, better nutrition etc, it'll be interesting to see. I think that Day's injury problems are also due to his swing which has almost no lateral movement. If you watch a side-by-side of Rory and Day, Rory comes off the ball a little, which I think relieves his back a little, while Day has almost no movement. I suffer from sciatica and swinging like Day kills my back, while swinging like Rory is easier (obviously not as well).

 

You're implying that training reduces flexibility, but it does not, it increases it the majority of the time, even without doing any flexibility work.

[Christosterone]

His smash factor ranked 110th or so. Not a recipe for great contact. He should swing 116-118 like Rahm and Justin Thomas and then he'd actually hit fairways

 

To get to 116mph, JT swings out of his shoes, literally. I am a big fan of JT but as a guy with slight body he will be susceptible for the same kinda injuries that are starting to pile up on Day & Rory.

 

I am convinced that longevity of the current generation of players is going to much shorter than previous generations but I think that is fine considering how much money they make.

 

JT does swing out of his shoes, but he can do it with control. While he might miss fairways, he's remarkably straight for such a max effort swinger. Tiger is so much stronger than JT and most others that he could keep the same tempo, but swing without much effort to achieve the same SS as JT and then that smash factor would go up, as he could keep the face square longer. Agree that this new trend on swinging stupid hard, even on short shots, is going to shorten careers. One thing that mitigates that is how much better physical condition these guys are in - however, Rory seems to have overdone it and may be sacrificing flexibility and his connective tissues may not be suited to the amount of muscle he's added. Your tendons are what they are and no amount of training helps that. Between the working out and the stretching, better nutrition etc, it'll be interesting to see. I think that Day's injury problems are also due to his swing which has almost no lateral movement. If you watch a side-by-side of Rory and Day, Rory comes off the ball a little, which I think relieves his back a little, while Day has almost no movement. I suffer from sciatica and swinging like Day kills my back, while swinging like Rory is easier (obviously not as well).

 

I appreciate the “modern” belief that players swing so much harder today...and while that’s true of the majority, many players in the old days swung harder than u could imagine...

 

Miller swung harder than any human I’ve ever seen....Norman as well...

Heck, Norman and Miller swung so hard their metal spikes twisted out of the ground on their left side...

 

It was ludicrous how hard Miller and Norman went at the ball...

Norman’s driver shaft recoiled off his lower back and the head would sometimes wrap around and whip him on his right thigh...

Think about that...it’s astounding....especially considering he used a steel shaft during the period of his big swing...

 

And Johnny got more muscular as the 70s went on..,

While never “big” like tiger, he certainly got more muscular by 76-78

 

-Chris