Putt holed...or not?

[drpino]

cup liner issue

I wanted to get some of my fellow WRX members' thoughts on this situation.

Played a casual round today and on the 9th hole I had a 5-6 footer for par. Stroked the putt and the ball went in the center of the hole at a proper pace and popped back out to about 6 inches left of the cup. Completely miffed, I look in the cup and see the liner is separated from the hole by about a half an inch with a visible gap between the cup liner and the sides of the cut hole (this is right at the "back" of the hole from where I was putting). Apparently the ball went down into the cup, hit the "ledge" created by the separation and "jumped" back out. I'm 99.9% sure that if the liner were properly placed, the ball would've stayed in the cup. This was no lip out nor a "Tiger for a 62 at Southern Hills" - the ball went in the heart of the hole and wasn't banged off the back by any means.

I carded a bogey.

Again, it was a casual round with no money at stake so I took it in stride. Just kind of pissed about a BS bogey.

Thoughts? Should I be penalized for an improperly placed cup liner? Is there any specific rule relevant to this type of situation.

Thanks! :drinks:

[Bones01gt]

If I felt that strongly that the putt would have bottomed out if the hole were "up to par" (pun intended), I would definitley score it as a made putt. (hope you enjoyed the play on words).

[themouth1]

If the putt didn't finish in the bottom of the hole, you cannot count it. I did the same thing on Sunday and it cost me a few bucks. Nothing you can...

[drpino]

I always enjoy quality word play. :cheesy:

 

One of my regular golfing buddies was standing fairly close to the hole and said that the ball did go down into the hole and came back out; he admittedly assumed the ball hit the "ledge" just as I did but still didn't give me the putt. :lol: :drinks: :)

 

If the putt didn't finish in the bottom of the hole, you cannot count it. I did the same thing on Sunday and it cost me a few bucks. Nothing you can...

I'm in no disagreement that if the ball isn't at the bottom of the hole with a properly seated liner it shouldn't count. I'm questioning the fact that the hole wasn't up to proper standards.

[hoganfan924]

Same exact thing happened to me in a casual round about 19 years ago. Hit the putt dead center and it came straight back at me after hitting the back of the hole. Liner wasn't pressed in deep enough (only about 1/4" below the surface) so it hit the lip of the liner. Sorry, but doesn't count as a holed putt no matter what. But yeah, I was pissed too!

[bloodredsun]

Does any one else remember this happening to Ian Poulter during a competition a couple of years back?

 

He stroked a beautiful 4 footer right into the middle of the cup and then watched it pop out like someone had left a spring in the bottom of the cup. He was furious and when he put the flag back in he gave the hole an absolute beating with the bottom of the flag pole to put the liner back in properly.

[hksaikung]

I remember someone hitting the same putt at PGA Q school at missing his card by one stroke!!...

[hbear]

Give yourself whatever score you want...

but by the rules it doesn't count.

 

No different than if some idiot dug his ball out with his putter and makes a big gouge around the cup.

(Can't fix it under the rules, as with spike marks, or the idiot that didn't rake the trap and you end up in his footprint, or the moron that left his wedge on the fringe and your ball hits it and veers into the rough instead of releasing onto the green.....)

 

It sucks but that's how it is.

[drpino]

That's one thing that irks me just a bit about golf...that the rules and decisions on such are written with perfect conditions in mind which are more often than not imperfect.

 

I'm not referring to playing conditions (weather, natural stuff, etc.) but rather man-made/induced conditions like you detailed above (non-raked traps, unnecessary damage to the green, improperly cut holes/placed liners, etc.). As if playing the ball as it lies isn't frustrating enough (sometimes), being put at a disadvantage based on someone else's negligence is almost infuriating.

[BM1]

Same exact thing happened to me in a casual round about 19 years ago. Hit the putt dead center and it came straight back at me after hitting the back of the hole. Liner wasn't pressed in deep enough (only about 1/4" below the surface) so it hit the lip of the liner. Sorry, but doesn't count as a holed putt no matter what. But yeah, I was pissed too!

[/quote

 

Same thing has happened to me. I could even hear mine hitting the liner!

[mcputter]

I remember someone hitting the same putt at PGA Q school at missing his card by one stroke!!...

It was Joe Daley in the 2000 PGA Q-school during the 4th round (of six rounds).

 

Only time it's happened to me is in miniature golf. I was playing with someone that it happened to many years ago in a qualifying tournament for the Junior World event at Torrey Pines. Golf can be a very cruel game.

[andechr]

Suppose this happened on the final hole of a PGA tournament and the leader's ball bounced out, costing him a 1 stroke lead. Before turning in their resignations, would the grounds crew be able to repair the cup before a playoff that was taking place on that hole?

[themouth1]

Yes, they could after the round. All the players in the playoff would be starting on level ground.

[hbear]

Or if it's something simple like a gouge around the cup, or the cup just needs to be pushed in further....I believe you can fix it after you hole out, or your playing partners can fix it after they hole out.

[KDMullins]

Everybody's dismissing this as just a missed putt, but it seems a little screwy to me. Doesn't the circumference of the hole have to be a certain size. To the extent that the hole was improperly dug and there was that large a gap between the liner and surrounding dirt, it seems like there might be some relief. Isn't a cup repaired if a competitor's ball hits it on the fly and does damage to it?

[hoganfan924]

Everybody's dismissing this as just a missed putt, but it seems a little screwy to me. Doesn't the circumference of the hole have to be a certain size. To the extent that the hole was improperly dug and there was that large a gap between the liner and surrounding dirt, it seems like there might be some relief. Isn't a cup repaired if a competitor's ball hits it on the fly and does damage to it?

 

When this happened to me there was nothing wrong with the diameter of the hole, and there was no gap between the liner and the dirt. The liner just wasn't pressed down far enough and the ball hit the edge of it at just the right angle and speed to jump out of the hole. Just tough luck. That's golf!

 

Now I suppose if I'd noticed this before I pulled the flag, I could have pressed down on the flag to set the liner back down before pulling the flag. However, (memory is a bit fuzzy) in my case, I don't think that the hole was cut deep enough and the liner would still not press down after I putted out.

 

Who ever said golf was fair?

[atlanta golfer]

I clearly remember this happening within the past couple years on tv because it was on the golf channel replays several times. As stated above, no matter the reason, if the ball doesn't stay in the hole, the putt is no good. This exact thing also happened to me this spring during a league match. The liner was offset from the hole by a 1/4 inch or so, and the ball hit the top of the liner and popped out. The cause really is just sloppy groundskeeping / pin setting. I play a lot of different courses and see lots of poor quality work in coring the holes and setting the pins. Just part of the game, unfortunately.

[drpino]

Just part of the game, unfortunately.

Understood. Just seems odd that in most other competitive activities (i.e. sports, games, etc.) there are standards and regulations for play (in terms of the arena). For example, in baseball all diamonds are the same dimensions; in basketball all rims are exactly 10' high; in tennis all courts are the exact same dimensions; etc.

 

Golf has so many variables as it is already. When the one thing on each and every course that should be constant wherever and whenever is not up to standard, it bothers me and more importantly find it unfair to those participating.

[brettcra]

Just part of the game, unfortunately.

Understood. Just seems odd that in most other competitive activities (i.e. sports, games, etc.) there are standards and regulations for play (in terms of the arena). For example, in baseball all diamonds are the same dimensions; in basketball all rims are exactly 10' high; in tennis all courts are the exact same dimensions; etc.

 

Golf has so many variables as it is already. When the one thing on each and every course that should be constant wherever and whenever is not up to standard, it bothers me and more importantly find it unfair to those participating.

This happened last night to someone I was playing with. You could hear the sound of the ball hitting the plastic and then it popped out. It was funny to see. But to look at the hole, there was nothing unusual.

 

And other sports aren't so rigid in their dimensions. In baseball, the diamonds may have the same dimensions, but the outfields are certainly different in setup and distance from the plate. Grass is cut differently at different stadiums, close to the line at some places, farther away at others. And teams have been known to wet down the infield a little too much if the opposing team has a lot of speed. Even in basketball, the dimensions are the same, but the floors are different. Teams used to complain about the old Boston Garden and it's parquet floor, that there were dead spots that would screw up the dribble.

 

Things happen sometimes that aren't fair.

[drpino]

i'm aware of the varying nuances of baseball fields and basketball and tennis courts but i would equate those to the golf course itself.

 

my analogy was concerning the "constants" in the respective sports - hole diameter/depth/etc, rim height, diamond dimensions, court dimensions/net height.