Club Champion

[mjf34g]

> @backhill said:

> Thanks for the quick feedback. Adam/Nick are with CC, and I know they have a great reputation in the area prior to being with CC. They added a third guy who I'm less familiar with.

>

> Regarding Bloomfield Carls, all of their staff is great. I've even had Carl Jr help me grab the wedge I wanted once :) But I mostly work with Ryan J over there. And Plymouth Carls, I go in and shoot the **** with John every now and again. Great guy with a ton of knowledge.

I misunderstood. There is also an Adam at Carls and Nick is the fitter I work with at Carls. I believe that Adam used to work at Miles in AA

[fr8dog]

> @J9293 said:

> Why is a high handicapper so picky about being a D0 swing weight? I’m sure there are other things in your game that need more attention than that.

 

I agree, there are many things in my game that need attention. I do know that for feel and performance I prefer a D0-D1 weight in my driver. D2-D3 weight in my irons. Are you suggesting that only low cappers should have a preference in swing weights?

[phatchrisrules]

> @fr8dog said:

> > @J9293 said:

> > Why is a high handicapper so picky about being a D0 swing weight? I’m sure there are other things in your game that need more attention than that.

>

> I agree, there are many things in my game that need attention. I do know that for feel and performance I prefer a D0-D1 weight in my driver. D2-D3 weight in my irons. Are you suggesting that only low cappers should have a preference in swing weights?

 

I think @J9293 's comment likely just came across a little vague. I don't think they were talking down to you regarding the swingweight, everyone has a preference range that seems to work for them. I think they were commenting that you seemed very hung up on 4g of weight and it coloured your entire view of the fitting. I know when I fit people I often suggest shafts that my clients actually haven't hit; more so just different flexes that we don't have on the wall to try, but it always worked out. Did they suggest an entirely different shaft they don't carry (i.e. said okay this Aldila NV Blue in your head is working, we don't carry it but I think you'd work great with the V2 HL), or was it a flex they don't have (e.g. okay you were trying an NV Blue 6 stiff but I'd order you the regular based on your swing speed)? If the latter, as I said, I do that ALL the time to good success. If the former, I do that on occasion where someone wants to buy an OEM driver but the shaft they fit best into isn't a free option and an upcharge isn't on their radar. Lastly, I think they were also suggesting in their final line that there were other things to consider such as did one head produce straighter shots, more consistency? Did one shaft give you a better sensation of timing and delivery? Those are all very important parameters that many higher handicaps overlook as they usually focus on one aspect of a fitting (distance, shaft stiffness or ball flight, etc.). I have had guys turn their nose up at combos that are significant improvements over their own clubs because they read online or their friends told them it wasn't what they needed due to states specs or internet/friend opinions. Go figure.

 

Sorry you had a crap experience but surely there might have been a nugget of info here or there you can use in future?

[mws82]

I’ve been to club champion in Willowbrook IL and have never had anything but exceptional service. Keep in mind the pre fitting questionnaire and the pre fit meeting is very important and allowed us to get right down to business. I was able to hit the things I wanted to even if they did not seem to be the right fit on paper and also hit the fitters recommendations. I believe the key to premium club fitting is to be honest with yourself and ability and do your homework on the fitters themselves.

 

As far as price it is what it is. Full retail. Any other premium fitters also charge full retail that I’ve been to.

[MountainKing]

> I just don't get why Club Champion (and similar) get crapped on so much for their pricing when it's on their website what they do and why they do it.

>

Everybody wants a deal, that's why. It's not just the golf business either....

I also had multiple great experiences with the Willowbrook location. I never bought equipment from them since I can do the work myself and save on labor, but the fittings have always been great. If you want to save, learn how to do it, but even at that you're not saving that much since the cost of the equipment is the cost of the equipment.

[J9293]

> @fr8dog said:

> > @J9293 said:

> > Why is a high handicapper so picky about being a D0 swing weight? I’m sure there are other things in your game that need more attention than that.

>

> I agree, there are many things in my game that need attention. I do know that for feel and performance I prefer a D0-D1 weight in my driver. D2-D3 weight in my irons. Are you suggesting that only low cappers should have a preference in swing weights?

 

I just think that as a higher handicap you should be open to suggestions from more experienced people. If you constrain yourself to only have D0 as a swing weight and nothing else you may be missing out on options that could work for you but didn’t give it a chance.

 

 

[mjf34g]

Heres one of my major issues and one I keep harping on. From their website ;"The components you’ve selected are painstakingly assembled by hand in our facility by master builders with years of experience. "

Who are these "Master Builders" and what are their qualifications? Your paying a HUGE premium for this build and it very well could be just a cut and glue guy for all you know. If you've ever worked with a true, to use their term, "Master Builder" there is a huge difference. Now if they are indeed trained and have the necessary experience then fine. But I'd want to see the facilities and how they build. Show me why that build is better than a good fitting and using an OEM build (which for a great majority of players would be more than sufficent). I've done both (Master Builder/high end$/fitting vs fitting and OEM builds) over the years and to tell you the truth I've seen no discerable difference in perfromance or my scores or hc.

If CC is your only option or you have $ to burn or just want to do it go for it. And as to their pricing its their business model and they seem to be successful with it so great for them. IMHO its kind of like the Tour Cameron debate. Far from me to critize (I've owned a few) its your $ and if it makes you happy by all means do it and enjoy. You could probably putt just as well with something less expensive but its your $ and your enjoyment so be happy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mws82]

> @mjf34g said:

> Heres one of my major issues and one I keep harping on. From their website ;"The components you’ve selected are painstakingly assembled by hand in our facility by master builders with years of experience. "

> Who are these "Master Builders" and what are their qualifications? Your paying a HUGE premium for this build and it very well could be just a cut and glue guy for all you know. If you've ever worked with a true, to use their term, "Master Builder" there is a huge difference. Now if they are indeed trained and have the necessary experience then fine. But I'd want to see the facilities and how they build. Show me why that build is better than a good fitting and using an OEM build (which for a great majority of players would be more than sufficent). I've done both (Master Builder/high end$/fitting vs fitting and OEM builds) over the years and to tell you the truth I've seen no discerable difference in perfromance or my scores or hc.

> If CC is your only option or you have $ to burn or just want to do it go for it. And as to their pricing its their business model and they seem to be successful with it so great for them. IMHO its kind of like the Tour Cameron debate. Far from me to critize (I've owned a few) its your $ and if it makes you happy by all means do it and enjoy. You could probably putt just as well with something less expensive but its your $ and your enjoyment so be happy.

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To try and shed light on your question. All of the club champion orders go through Willowbrook Illinois. They have a large build shop that you could see the folks building clubs. They have the machine to pure the shafts which is a service oem does not provide. They do build the club to the desired specs which I have had issues with many oem builds. The issues I’ve experienced with oem builds are grips not built up to desired specs, incorrect length of shafts, obvious loft and lie issues along with swing weight issues. I can say for club champion the builds they have done for me were spot on In all areas.

 

I do not know if their builders are true master builders but far better than oem in my opinion.

 

[mjf34g]

> @mws82 said:

> > @mjf34g said:

> > Heres one of my major issues and one I keep harping on. From their website ;"The components you’ve selected are painstakingly assembled by hand in our facility by master builders with years of experience. "

> > Who are these "Master Builders" and what are their qualifications? Your paying a HUGE premium for this build and it very well could be just a cut and glue guy for all you know. If you've ever worked with a true, to use their term, "Master Builder" there is a huge difference. Now if they are indeed trained and have the necessary experience then fine. But I'd want to see the facilities and how they build. Show me why that build is better than a good fitting and using an OEM build (which for a great majority of players would be more than sufficent). I've done both (Master Builder/high end$/fitting vs fitting and OEM builds) over the years and to tell you the truth I've seen no discerable difference in perfromance or my scores or hc.

> > If CC is your only option or you have $ to burn or just want to do it go for it. And as to their pricing its their business model and they seem to be successful with it so great for them. IMHO its kind of like the Tour Cameron debate. Far from me to critize (I've owned a few) its your $ and if it makes you happy by all means do it and enjoy. You could probably putt just as well with something less expensive but its your $ and your enjoyment so be happy.

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> To try and shed light on your question. All of the club champion orders go through Willowbrook Illinois. They have a large build shop that you could see the folks building clubs. They have the machine to pure the shafts which is a service oem does not provide. They do build the club to the desired specs which I have had issues with many oem builds. The issues I’ve experienced with oem builds are grips not built up to desired specs, incorrect length of shafts, obvious loft and lie issues along with swing weight issues. I can say for club champion the builds they have done for me were spot on In all areas.

>

> I do not know if their builders are true master builders but far better than oem in my opinion.

>

Not to get into a debate but "puring" todays shaft is a waste of time. They don't even waste time doing it on Tour Vans (unless said Tour Pro specifically requests it done). That said my experinece with OEM builds has been mixed. I had great success with Pings Wrx builds and also with Mizuno Custom builds. All those have been well within specs as too lengths, lofts, lies and swingweights (within one point or so) ,and if anyone tells me they can tell the difference between one point I call BS. I've checked specs myself. I've had mixed results with Callaway and Titleist. The worst by a country mile is TM. Ive had few driver and iron builds by a true master who has access to certian OEM product (who's rather well known and a personal friend due to our working together) that I paid a premium for. Its was great knowing the time and effort that he puts into a build. Did it affect my hc or scores? Debatable. So at that point I presonally didn't see the need to pay the cost. Thats a personal descison for each person.

To another point once again. The majority of players DO benifit with a good fitting with a quality launch monitor. The question is would they realize a better or equal result paying a premium at CC vs an OEM build at a greatly reduced cost. People on golf sites as here being golf nuts that are into the minuta of golf equipment might see the difference or want to know their equipment is massaged to the ninth degree but to great majority it won't matter.

 

[gricky]

I've done the CC fitting. While I didn't buy clubs, I found it helpful for many reasons... The main being that a trackman suggested at my high speed, I could benefit from a bit of a higher launch in my irons. It was also suggested that I have my graphite shaft I was fitted for (driving iron) tipped an inch. Finally, I got a feel for higher swing weights and saw improved consistency with higher swing weights.

 

Overall, I got fit into a combo that wasn't available stock (919 tours and kbs $ taper). I didn't buy because of the price, but it has me interested in shopping around/ building myself.

 

 

[MountainKing]

> @mws82 said:

> > @mjf34g said:

> > Heres one of my major issues and one I keep harping on. From their website ;"The components you’ve selected are painstakingly assembled by hand in our facility by master builders with years of experience. "

> > Who are these "Master Builders" and what are their qualifications? Your paying a HUGE premium for this build and it very well could be just a cut and glue guy for all you know. If you've ever worked with a true, to use their term, "Master Builder" there is a huge difference. Now if they are indeed trained and have the necessary experience then fine. But I'd want to see the facilities and how they build. Show me why that build is better than a good fitting and using an OEM build (which for a great majority of players would be more than sufficent). I've done both (Master Builder/high end$/fitting vs fitting and OEM builds) over the years and to tell you the truth I've seen no discerable difference in perfromance or my scores or hc.

> > If CC is your only option or you have $ to burn or just want to do it go for it. And as to their pricing its their business model and they seem to be successful with it so great for them. IMHO its kind of like the Tour Cameron debate. Far from me to critize (I've owned a few) its your $ and if it makes you happy by all means do it and enjoy. You could probably putt just as well with something less expensive but its your $ and your enjoyment so be happy.

> >

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> To try and shed light on your question. All of the club champion orders go through Willowbrook Illinois. They have a large build shop that you could see the folks building clubs. They have the machine to pure the shafts which is a service oem does not provide. They do build the club to the desired specs which I have had issues with many oem builds. The issues I’ve experienced with oem builds are grips not built up to desired specs, incorrect length of shafts, obvious loft and lie issues along with swing weight issues. I can say for club champion the builds they have done for me were spot on In all areas.

>

> I do not know if their builders are true master builders but far better than oem in my opinion.

>

 

I've been in the area where they build the clubs and the guys know what they're doing. If you cruise on out to Willowbrook, IL they'll gladly let you in there and let you talk to the guys doing the building. I know one of the guys I talked to there used to do the tour van circuit but wanted something where he wasn't traveling. With that said, you can get fit there but nobody is forcing you to buy from them or even go there and get fit from them. If you don't believe it's any better than a $40 fitting elsewhere then do the $40 fitting and move on.

[mjf34g]

Who said anything about a $40 fitting? Good driver fittings run $125 to $150 for a one hr fitting using Trackman. The issue is is the price they charge for said driver or irons. My point is the for the MAJORITY of players it doesnt matterthey coukd get the same results froman OEM build . Maybe not golf geeks on a golf forum who obsess over their equipment but the other 95%. CC has a business model and its successful so more power to em.

[MountainKing]

> @mjf34g said:

> Who said anything about a $40 fitting? Good driver fittings run $125 to $150 for a one hr fitting using Trackman. The issue is is the price they charge for said driver or irons. My point is the for the MAJORITY of players it doesnt matterthey coukd get the same results froman OEM build . Maybe not golf geeks on a golf forum who obsess over their equipment but the other 95%. CC has a business model and its successful so more power to em.

 

Why is that an issue? Nobody is forced to buy anything from them.....

[mjf34g]

I never inferred they were forced to buy anything.

[BB28403]

There is a weakness a lot of people have,

We’ve all done it, you dream of buying something just because it is a luxury item. Nevermind you absolutely do not need it. It just makes you feel amazing when you buy it. You feel either ok or just plain terrible after, having buyers remorse. Club champion , Lexus, bmw, Rolex , Mercedes, Jaguar, Mazaratti, etc... all feed on this Want we all have to “taste the riches”.

I once dreamed of a BMW or Lexus but then I thought about the car payment. And said , you know what? Any Japanese quality brand will do.

Anyhow, that’s my club champion theory.

I think any quality fitter could accomplish what they accomplish for 1/2 the price.

[redbud5505]

My experience was horrible. This was not my first full fitting. I've been to Sellingers in Dallas, MK in San Antonio and the Pebble Beach Academy. I'm a 4.7 handicap and have played golf for 22 years.

 

I've been in Houston a lot for work so I thought I would try out the location on I 10. Plus they carried Vega, the brand of irons I play. My fitter, Chris, did a decent job with my fitting. He helped with spin rates etc. I had a complete bag fitting and we figured out that I needed different shafts in my irons, new 4,5 and 6 irons to blend in, a new driver shaft, a new 60 deg wedge and we bent my putter to fit my stroke. All very helpful. I was told it would take 8-10 business days to source my components and put my clubs together.

3 weeks later I was in the neighborhood so I stopped in since I had not heard anything. It was then that I learned my order had been completely botched by the Chicago headquarters and had not been worked on at all. Chris told me that I would have my clubs within a week. Two weeks later I called the I-10 location only to be forwarded to the headquarters. The woman on the phone told me that Chris again guaranteed that I would have my clubs by the following week. This happened to be the week of the masters 2019. It is now the Thursday of the Masters and I have called in yet again to get ahold of Chris but am forwarded to the headquarters again. I spoke with Ryan who assured me he would get someone to call me back. Still no clubs. At this point I just want my original irons back. Dont know if I will get them.

To the owners of the Club Champion. You should do a better job on quality control if your going to take $3K from a customer up front. Your service and fitting is a joke compared to Sellingers and MK Golf technologies in Texas. You might want to work on that too.