Strange relations PW vs Driver

[BombinJim]

1 minute ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

What loft is your PW?

47 degrees.

[mgoblue83]

3 minutes ago, BombinJim said:

47 degrees.

 

84 mph swing speed on the PW is pretty low for expecting 270yd carry with driver.

 

I'd think it would need to be closer to 90mph to reasonably expect driver SS to be 105+ mph. 

[Howard_Jones]

7 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

84 mph swing speed on the PW is pretty low for expecting 270yd carry with driver.

 

I'd think it would need to be closer to 90mph to reasonably expect driver SS to be 105+ mph. 

You seems to mix PW club speed with #6 iron club speed...
Forget that, and look at his PW carry, its 135
Now look at PGA average for PW and Driver Carry (include club speed if you like)

[driveandputtmachine]

On 4/3/2020 at 1:10 PM, Howard_Jones said:

Here is another strange one, or maybe its not so strange, lets here from all of you again...

If you found your driver carry to be equal to your PW carry X 2, then i wants to know TOTAL WEIGHT and the difference between those 2 clubs....

You will "most likely" have a driver thats PW total weight x 0.7...plus minus 1% or from plus minus 0.69 to 0.71....

Example PW 459 grams, x 0.70 = Driver total wgt 321.5 grams

Does the numbers align again?

I am pretty close to x2 PW to my driver.  PW in the summer, carries 145.  Driver again during the summer carries 290ish.  This is all from our clubs trackman. 

 

Now with weights there is an issue.

Driver - 355g

PW - 452g

 

So I am at .785

 

Shafts wise -

Driver:  I play a Ventus Red Velocore that is tipped all the way, it is the 7x, I weighed it during the build but did not keep numbers.  I do have an extra weight in the Track of my Cally Epic Max LS.  

PW: I play the Recoil 110 F5, I do not remember the headweight or the shaft weight pre build.  I did pull (4) - 3'8" holes out of the back of the head since I play my wedges so long.

 

I did a Poor man's MOI match on my irons off of my 7 iron.  Playing lengths are Driver = 44-3/4". PW = 37"

[mgoblue83]

2 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

You seems to mix PW club speed with #6 iron club speed...
Forget that, and look at his PW carry, its 135
Now look at PGA average for PW and Driver Carry (include club speed if you like)

 

 

 

83mph with the PW just seems incredibly slow for someone who expects to carry driver 270+.

 

That Trackman chart is quite outdated and there is no way to tell what type of swing was used. 

 

The only way it makes sense is if players are swinging less than full on PW (80%?) and then stepping on driver. 

 

Most guys I know (including myself) who are swinging 110+ with driver are around 90 with PW with normal swings. 

[Howard_Jones]

5 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

 

 

83mph with the PW just seems incredibly slow for someone who expects to carry driver 270+.

 

That Trackman chart is quite outdated and there is no way to tell what type of swing was used. 

 

The only way it makes sense is if players are swinging less than full on PW (80%?) and then stepping on driver. 

 

Most guys I know (including myself) who are swinging 110+ with driver are around 90 with PW with normal swings. 

I suggest you read this tread from the start, and you will learn something.

We actually knows nothing about driver loft, only that the PW is 46* to 48*
We know nothing about how the player swing any of those to clubs
We dont even know club speed, but can see from carry numbers who is high or low
....still the factor is spot on, or less that 5 yards off

Trackmans PGA chart for the average on the tour "outdated"???
'i retired from fitting and club making in 2005, and here is the development for the driver since then...a few yards, but did the factors between PW to driver change? how much? and wow long have you been a club fitter and where?



There is quite a few players in this tread with different club speed levels and locations, HDCP etc... they conform the factor with very few exceptions, so its actually one of the better rule of thumbs in golf..

...most guys you know? 

90 mph with a PW is 97 to 99 mph with the #6 iron, the typical level for shafts like DG X7, then 110+ is really slow with the driver 120+ is more like it
Tiger woods is at about 99 with the #6 iron when he is stepping on it, and his clubs speed with the driver aint in the 110+ area.

Not much have changes since i worked with players at this level, they swing a little faster some of them, but that goes for all clubs, so its still a 2.0 to 2.03 factor from PW to driver for them and most others who have a bag thats fitted right for them, and thats what we use this formula for.

To judge the players potential, and to locate issues with the irons or the driver if this factor is off.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[jar59]

Is there an effect for drivers that captures the ball speed numbers with range balls.  The clubhead speed is not captured, just the ballspeed.  The wedges seem okay but the drivers are underperforming for me and my partner.  We are using equipment from a popular national chain.

  I have read studies that indicate that irons and wedges are quite accurate with range balls but woods may understate the true length.  Is this issue legitimate in your experiences?

[Howard_Jones]

6 hours ago, jar59 said:

Is there an effect for drivers that captures the ball speed numbers with range balls.  The clubhead speed is not captured, just the ballspeed.  The wedges seem okay but the drivers are underperforming for me and my partner.  We are using equipment from a popular national chain.

  I have read studies that indicate that irons and wedges are quite accurate with range balls but woods may understate the true length.  Is this issue legitimate in your experiences?

Some, but not all range ball models is "limited distance", simply because some places dont have enough space available. The numbers in this tread is NOT related to range balls. 

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[CROUSE99]

This is the first time I've come across this thread.  The distance relationship between my 48 degree wedge and driver is almost an exact match for the formula posted by the OP.

[joostin]

Interesting. 

I'm pretty much inline with the Trackman PGA speeds/distances, so the 2:1 driver carry to PW carry applies to me.

 

PW, 46°, 35.5", 460.4g

Driver, 9°, 45", 338g <- 0.734x weight of PW, relatively heavy

 

As far as clubhead speed of PW vs Driver, the theoretical chart in the post I had below has been pretty close for me in speed testing at home through the bag with "same effort" swings.  For instance the same effort on a hard sand wedge at 92 mph will be around 102 mph on a hard 4 iron for me.... The chart shows 93mph SW = 103mph 4 iron = 120mph driver: