The End of Wilson Golf???

[ram01002]

Heading to Wal-Mart

Hey guys - -
My pro recently met with the Wilson Staff rep who covers our area. He had just been let go by the company, and told my pro that Wilson is phasing out its pro-line equipment market, and will cater its products to mass retailers in the very near future. Have any of you heard anything similar? If true, a sad omen for the equipment industry, and we almost have to ask ourselves - - who's next to go?

[pingman1]

one company will never go that way--PING

 

you can find callaway bags and balls in wal-mart, target and other discount stores like them.

 

i believe the problem is due to overseas production, specifically China.

 

every single iron head is made in China today! the quality is not as good as it once was even with calloway. PING still casts their own heads in the US.

 

in addition you will never find PING in wal-mart. I have seen TM, nike drivers in sam's clubs and costco. last week i saw oddessy putters in sam's, along with cleveland wedges.

[kkhere]

thats sad to hear. Wilson did have some good products such as the pi5 irons

[bogeyk]

If it's true, Wilson didn't give their new equipment much time to prove itself. Years of making cheap to moderately priced clubs will give the consumer some apprehension. It is a sad state when a brand with such a rich history goes away from their roots for mass appeal while alienating the core on their business. Callaway did this with Hogan when they got away from premium forged clubs. I have only been playing for seven years and a long term goal was to work into players clubs such as Hogans or Titleist blades. Those clubs, I believe, are almost like a status symbol.

[chicubs]

I doubt its true, Wilson has really been pushing its Wilson Staff image and is just about ready to release its new line which looks pretty good according to sirshanksalot....The kirk currie putters are also really nice as well.

[Goose]

Hey guys - -

My pro recently met with the Wilson Staff rep who covers our area. He had just been let go by the company, and told my pro that Wilson is phasing out its pro-line equipment market, and will cater its products to mass retailers in the very near future. Have any of you heard anything similar? If true, a sad omen for the equipment industry, and we almost have to ask ourselves - - who's next to go?

70093[/snapback]

 

If im correct you did say that Wilson let go of this rep so he may have been in a bad mood, or really doesntlike the company at this point. With Wilson putting money and marketing into their new products i would highly doubt that they would phase out pro-line equipment to only make stuff that a walmart or target would carry.

 

DaN"goose"

[pitbull808]

That's really surprising and I hope not true. Their new products have really looked great and they really should stay the course and give them a little more time to catch on with the general public.

[jmconnel]

They should go to wal mart because the stuff doesn't sell, I think the bigger retailers have found this out and aren't going to back Wilson as much because this past year as been a flop with their new stuff.

[Hifade]

You're right but remember, PING Golf is a small (large as it might seem) part of Karsten Manufacturing. They do a whole lot more than just golf. Obviously your staying power is greater when you're not relying on just one product or on one industry as most of the Golf OEMs do.

 

Wilson has struggled for years and Paddy Harrington does nothing for the brand in the states, which is the largest market. It doesn't surprise me at all because there is profit when you sell in truckloads to the SAM's Clubs, Walmarts and Costcos of the world. It becomes survival.

 

I also think you'll see more consolidation of companies rather than them closing their doors. We've been seeing this for a while now. For instance, Oddessey, Hogan and Top Flight to Callaway......Maxfli to TM, Never Comp to Cleveland and even Bobby Grace to Cobra and Cobra to Titleist. Wouldn't surprise my if we end up with 4 or 5 companies overall, in the years to come.

 

Titleist

Taylor Made

PING

Callaway

Nike (only because they have more money than GOD)

 

 

 

one company will never go that way--PING

 

you can find callaway bags and balls in wal-mart, target and other discount stores like them. 

 

i believe the problem is due to overseas production, specifically China.

 

every single iron head is made in China today! the quality is not as good as it once was even with calloway. PING still casts their own heads in the US.

 

in addition you will never find PING in wal-mart.  I have seen TM, nike drivers in sam's clubs and costco.  last week i saw oddessy putters in sam's, along with cleveland wedges.

70100[/snapback]

[thewitt]

Wilson Sporting Goods was one of the first department store brands of golf clubs back in the 1920s. It would not surprise me to see them a department store staple again, and I doubt very much it would hurt either the company or their top of the line Pro Shop clubs either.

 

-t

[marltonfjm]

You're right but remember, PING Golf is a small (large as it might seem) part of Karsten Manufacturing. They do a whole lot more than just golf. Obviously your staying power is greater when you're not relying on just one product or on one industry as most of the Golf OEMs do.

 

Wilson has struggled for years and Paddy Harrington does nothing for the brand in the states, which is the largest market. It doesn't surprise me at all because there is profit when you sell in truckloads to the SAM's Clubs, Walmarts and Costcos of the world. It becomes survival.

 

I also think you'll see more consolidation of companies rather than them closing their doors. We've been seeing this for a while now. For instance, Oddessey, Hogan and Top Flight to Callaway......Maxfli to TM, Never Comp to Cleveland and even Bobby Grace to Cobra and Cobra to Titleist. Wouldn't surprise my if we end up with 4 or 5 companies overall, in the years to come.

 

Titleist

Taylor Made

PING

Callaway

Nike (only because they have more money than GOD)

 

 

 

one company will never go that way--PING

 

you can find callaway bags and balls in wal-mart, target and other discount stores like them. 

 

i believe the problem is due to overseas production, specifically China.

 

every single iron head is made in China today! the quality is not as good as it once was even with calloway. PING still casts their own heads in the US.

 

in addition you will never find PING in wal-mart.  I have seen TM, nike drivers in sam's clubs and costco.  last week i saw oddessy putters in sam's, along with cleveland wedges.

70100[/snapback]

70567[/snapback]

 

HiFade, what else does Karsten Manufacturing produce? When I looked them up on Hoovers it only mentions the PING side of the business. I do recall hearing stories of defense related work but have never seen anything official.

 

Thanks

[Hifade]

They have a tremendous engineering arm of the biz and do alot of aerospace and Defense Dept work. I had a buddy that worked for them for awhile and even parts of the biz are kinda secretive to their own employees.

 

 

You're right but remember, PING Golf is a small (large as it might seem) part of Karsten Manufacturing. They do a whole lot more than just golf. Obviously your staying power is greater when you're not relying on just one product or on one industry as most of the Golf OEMs do.

 

Wilson has struggled for years and Paddy Harrington does nothing for the brand in the states, which is the largest market. It doesn't surprise me at all because there is profit when you sell in truckloads to the SAM's Clubs, Walmarts and Costcos of the world. It becomes survival.

 

I also think you'll see more consolidation of companies rather than them closing their doors. We've been seeing this for a while now. For instance, Oddessey, Hogan and Top Flight to Callaway......Maxfli to TM, Never Comp to Cleveland and even Bobby Grace to Cobra and Cobra to Titleist. Wouldn't surprise my if we end up with 4 or 5 companies overall, in the years to come.

 

Titleist

Taylor Made

PING

Callaway

Nike (only because they have more money than GOD)

 

 

 

one company will never go that way--PING

 

you can find callaway bags and balls in wal-mart, target and other discount stores like them. 

 

i believe the problem is due to overseas production, specifically China.

 

every single iron head is made in China today! the quality is not as good as it once was even with calloway. PING still casts their own heads in the US.

 

in addition you will never find PING in wal-mart.  I have seen TM, nike drivers in sam's clubs and costco.  last week i saw oddessy putters in sam's, along with cleveland wedges.

70100[/snapback]

70567[/snapback]

 

HiFade, what else does Karsten Manufacturing produce? When I looked them up on Hoovers it only mentions the PING side of the business. I do recall hearing stories of defense related work but have never seen anything official.

 

Thanks

70693[/snapback]

[marltonfjm]

They have a tremendous engineering arm of the biz and do alot of aerospace and Defense Dept work. I had a buddy that worked for them for awhile and even parts of the biz are kinda secretive to their own employees.

 

 

You're right but remember, PING Golf is a small (large as it might seem) part of Karsten Manufacturing. They do a whole lot more than just golf. Obviously your staying power is greater when you're not relying on just one product or on one industry as most of the Golf OEMs do.

 

Wilson has struggled for years and Paddy Harrington does nothing for the brand in the states, which is the largest market. It doesn't surprise me at all because there is profit when you sell in truckloads to the SAM's Clubs, Walmarts and Costcos of the world. It becomes survival.

 

I also think you'll see more consolidation of companies rather than them closing their doors. We've been seeing this for a while now. For instance, Oddessey, Hogan and Top Flight to Callaway......Maxfli to TM, Never Comp to Cleveland and even Bobby Grace to Cobra and Cobra to Titleist. Wouldn't surprise my if we end up with 4 or 5 companies overall, in the years to come.

 

Titleist

Taylor Made

PING

Callaway

Nike (only because they have more money than GOD)

 

 

 

one company will never go that way--PING

 

you can find callaway bags and balls in wal-mart, target and other discount stores like them. 

 

i believe the problem is due to overseas production, specifically China.

 

every single iron head is made in China today! the quality is not as good as it once was even with calloway. PING still casts their own heads in the US.

 

in addition you will never find PING in wal-mart.  I have seen TM, nike drivers in sam's clubs and costco.  last week i saw oddessy putters in sam's, along with cleveland wedges.

70100[/snapback]

70567[/snapback]

 

HiFade, what else does Karsten Manufacturing produce? When I looked them up on Hoovers it only mentions the PING side of the business. I do recall hearing stories of defense related work but have never seen anything official.

 

Thanks

70693[/snapback]

70703[/snapback]

 

Understood. Thanks

[tildengolfer]

That would be a little surprising because they are doing well with Paddy Harrington as an ambassador, and they have been launching good quality products recently.

70099[/snapback]

i do agree but to the same token, they really dont have anyone else on their staff and really the only feedback they get is from mostly him, as far asi know..i never really like their stuff...

[ramsey_steve]

Your (soon to be) ex Wilson rep may know something of Wilson's plans, but more likely is speaking out anger or resentment due to his situation.

 

Wilson is owned by Finnish conglomerate "Amer Group", as part of their Amer Sports Division (Check out www.amersports.com), that also owns Suunto, Atomic Ski equipment, Precor and Salomon Ski equipment. The CEO of Amer is a Finn called Roger Talermo, who was responsible in the eighties for building the 'Head' and 'Salomon' brand names. In each case his successes came only after years of patient work to first create a stronger brand and then to leverage off the brand name with a broadening product range.

 

I have no inside knowledge of Amer's plans for Wilson, but their past actions and philosophies would suggest they're more likely to 'stay the course' of trying to re-establish the brand, than move down market.

[ce_me_golf]

Wilson Sporting Goods was one of the first department store brands of golf clubs back in the 1920s. It would not surprise me to see them a department store staple again, and I doubt very much it would hurt either the company or their top of the line Pro Shop clubs either.

 

-t

70606[/snapback]

 

At this point I find it surprising that Wilson would go BACK to where they where 3 to 5 years ago. The latest Wilson Staff products would seem to indicate the company wants to try to get a greater share of the of the premium golf club market. Their problem right now seems to one of the inability to articulate the message to the golfing public and the lack of well liked, well regarded pro aside from Padraig Harrington, who quite frankly lacks charisma and to some extent name recognition in the United States.

[papichulosteve]

That would be a little surprising because they are doing well with Paddy Harrington as an ambassador, and they have been launching good quality products recently.

70099[/snapback]

i do agree but to the same token, they really dont have anyone else on their staff and really the only feedback they get is from mostly him, as far asi know..i never really like their stuff...

70884[/snapback]

one must not forget about jesper, he also plays wilson staff Pi5 irons. i think that wilson just needs to keep doing what they are doing, their new line of products look very promising

[thewitt]

Ping has begun the migration overseas. All new designs starting in 2005 will be manufactured in Asia. They made this announcement at the PGA Merchandise Show last year in one of the off-show floor parties...

 

-t

[Titleist87]

Ping has begun the migration overseas.  All new designs starting in 2005 will be manufactured in Asia.  They made this announcement at the PGA Merchandise Show last year in one of the off-show floor parties...

 

-t

72365[/snapback]

 

That's too bad. The only thing I liked about PING was that some of their clubheads had "USA" on them.

[sandy]

one company will never go that way--PING

 

you can find callaway bags and balls in wal-mart, target and other discount stores like them. 

 

i believe the problem is due to overseas production, specifically China.

 

every single iron head is made in China today! the quality is not as good as it once was even with calloway. PING still casts their own heads in the US.

 

in addition you will never find PING in wal-mart.  I have seen TM, nike drivers in sam's clubs and costco.  last week i saw oddessy putters in sam's, along with cleveland wedges.

70100[/snapback]

 

Ping does not cast/forge their own driver, hybrid, or fairway woods here---only the irons. They are done in suprise----China. It was the only way to hold the price down which they couldn't do using Ruger and Australia ti houses. Callaway never has done their own stuff using Coast Cast among others to do their irons and Ruger to do their early titanium woods. Now all of their stuff is done in China and Thailand (where endo does their X-Tour forgings).

 

Many times over the years you could find ping equipment in sporting goods houses like sports authority but they always had the serial number ground off as they came from country club pros who were selling their equipment that didn't move. That stopped when ping got a hold of several of the irons and with "space age techniques" were still able to "raise" the serial numbers and promptly cancelled those pros accounts forever. That put a stop to the grey marketing of ping equipment. Taylor Made and others will knowingly sell outdated stock to Wal Mart, Costco etc. just to clear inventory. The premium balls would appear at these places through golf shops that were trying to move low end stuff. "If you carry Knight equipment we can get you XX number of Titleist premium balls" Titleist just recently put an end to this practice through the use of holography and RFI tags in each box/sleeve which is also traceable back to the original purchaser. It is very fascinating to see the schemes manufacturers, middle men, retailers will go to with equipment. Also neat to see the use of technology to slow down this illegal equipment selling.

 

The comment of the Wilson guy sounds just like what you would expect from someone who just lost their job (either fired or let go). We used to hear that all the time in various industries. In other words they are headed for disaster without me.

[Titleist87]

one company will never go that way--PING

 

you can find callaway bags and balls in wal-mart, target and other discount stores like them. 

 

i believe the problem is due to overseas production, specifically China.

 

every single iron head is made in China today! the quality is not as good as it once was even with calloway. PING still casts their own heads in the US.

 

in addition you will never find PING in wal-mart.  I have seen TM, nike drivers in sam's clubs and costco.  last week i saw oddessy putters in sam's, along with cleveland wedges.

70100[/snapback]

 

Callaway never has done their own stuff using Coast Cast among others to do their irons and Ruger to do their early titanium woods. Now all of their stuff is done in China and Thailand (where endo does their X-Tour forgings).

72443[/snapback]

 

Callaway must have done the early woods - first generation War Bird and earlier and the S2H2 irons since they have "USA" on the sole.

[rednumbers69]

doent matter to me there clubs are junk

[kblahey]

doent matter to me there clubs are junk

72467[/snapback]

 

I think Wilson is a great company and it is nice to see them go back to more traditional equipment rather than that fat shaft crap. Their Fi5 forged set is amazing and the Pi5 irons are decent too! They are doing just fine. Just because they don't put millions and millions into advertising doesn't mean that they are a crappy golf equipment maker and their stuff isn't as good as the next guys. They don't pay every Tom, Dick, and Harry money every week to play their driver (Taylor Made) just to win an equipment count. Don't get me wrong, Taylors a great company but they are screwing up consumers by putting out a new wood every 5 or 6 months. No wonder handicaps are going nowhere but up - one reason is the consumer has so many choices he doesn't know what to do anymore!!!

[dmac]

There's a good piece in this week's Golfweek magazine about Wilson's business woes. The parent company has been struggling, and they're cutting costs all over the place. I know a few people who used to work for Wilson Golf until this summer, when they were part of an exodus. The problem was that the Chicago-based Wilson Golf folks didn't feel like they were getting enough support (read: Money) from the parent company. Without enough money to push the clubs at retail, it doesn't matter how good the designs are (and some of the current/new Wilson Staff stuff is very good).

 

So Wilson Golf now has 10 national sales reps instead of 26, and several green-grass pros are closing their Wilson accounts due to poor service. All part of the double-edged sword of being part of a huge international conglomerate. If the home office needs to cut costs, your division is likely going to take a hit. Bad timing for Wilson Golf.