First Post-Any love for Joe Durant?

exgolfpro · January 5, 2008

Hello, all. This is my first day on this site. I have been on 4GEA for 3 years and was told about this site, over there. I was told you guys are "serious golfers...maybe too serious". That is just what i'm after on these forums. I hang out in the forums a lot, I have 2100 posts in 3 years.

Background-I am a former club pro and now work in the insurance business. 41 yrs old. +1.8 hdcp. Crappy long game, good short game. I love, love, love to discuss swing theory.

Here is my question. Joe Durant is a ball striking fool. He is always in the tops of fairways hit and greens hit. I would only think if he was an above average putter, he would win some more and we would hear his name more often. What do you guys think of his swing? Any videos available?

glcoach · January 5, 2008

He has one of my favorite swings on tour. PM me and I will send you a swing of his I have from this past years Masters Tournament.

I agree over the last decade he has been the premier ball striker on tour. It is a shame more people don't look to it as a model. His teacher Ron Gring is pretty good too. Lots-O-TGM/Mac influence in his action.

exgolfpro · January 5, 2008

I'm a TGM fan also. Not really into the lingo, but like the science behind it. Also like Clampett's book Impact Zone.

Swingtheclub · January 5, 2008

well last year he actually slipped a bit.

I think Joe has a great swing but is very conservative by his nature I do not think he putts as bad as he does not hit it that close to the hole. I think its a mindset

I also wonder how good a wedge player and short game he has.

Its funny I heard his teacher was his cousin Tommy Jeanette don't know where I heard it. I grew up playing golf with Tommy in Pensacola Fla great great player had a lot of issues though If he could have kept his head straight could have been a superstar

I played with him when he was 15 watched him shoot 66 in the morning and 63 in the afternoon Pick a junior tournament in the south he won it including I believe the Florida high school championship anyway I always like the thought my old buddy Tom was teaching Joe guess I was wrong.

Joe at a glance last year

KEY STATS
Scoring Average 70.95
71.09

Driving Distance 284.3
288.6

Driving Accuracy Percentage 73.71%
63.03%

Greens in Regulation Pct. 68.52%
63.76%

Scrambling 52.94%
55.89%

Putts Per Round 30.64
30.07

Joe Durant Average PGA TOUR Average

slicefixer · January 5, 2008

[quote name='Dariusz J.' post='850567' date='Jan 5 2008, 06:35 PM'][quote name='slicefixer' post='850352' date='Jan 5 2008, 02:56 PM'][quote name='Dariusz J.' post='850335' date='Jan 5 2008, 03:46 PM'][quote name='slicefixer' post='850101' date='Jan 5 2008, 11:32 AM']As a person who at one time created Hogan type "lag," I feel VERY strongly that a player with "lag" NEEDS a "heavier" head/higher SW in order to "feel WHERE the head is"......I've recommended to ALL of my good players that they play with slightly higher swingweights in order to create "feel" for the location of the clubhead........in fact, I've applied a lot of lead tape to a many a good player's driver in my day and can't think of a SINGLE player who didin't strike it better after the tape was applied due to MORE "head feel"........I'd LUV to know that average SW on the tour nowadays..........I'd bet D-3/D-4 with an iron and D-6 + with the driver.........I sure do see a LOT of lead on tour players golf clubs....... :haha: [/quote]

Slicefixer, seems the majority of your students needed the same as I do - a help to CREATE the lag. They must have been very good golfers, thus, I doubt if they were casting the club on the downswing - they could maintain it without bigger problems.
I still wonder why Ben Hogan clubs were only D1...as counterweighted D1 clubs they had to be heavy above average...maybe in Hogan's case maintaining lag was more important thing than to create it, as I suggested before...or Vasquez quoted false data.

BTW, you did not answer why do you regard placing a reminder in a 5-5.30 hours is very weak...if it's a pro secret...don't answer, I'll understand

Cheers

Cheers
[/quote]

SORRY Dariuz, didn't see the question.........I don't recommend most people place the reminder that weak, just stated that Mr. Hogan did........I know Tommy Armour III does likewise..........however, Price places his at approx. 7:00/7:15........more or less, it's too each his own.......as a rule the weaker the grip the weaker the rib, stronger the stronger......etc.......depends on where you like the rib in your fingers too........No ONE spot is "right" for everyone.........LOTS of good players don't like em' at all.......I didn't till I'd quit playing competitive golf seriously.......Now, I probably couldn't play at all without em' as they guarantee that I get my hands on the club basically the same.......which is important when you only play 10 times a year........
[/quote]

Thanks, Slicefixer. I agree with others, having such a guy like you on the Forum, it's a treasure. Stupid me that i haven't found this Forum earlier.

Cheers
[/quote]

I actually know Joe quite well........played together numerous times over the years........GREAT guy.......GENUINE........has NEVER changed since day one that I met him and I can't say that about a LOT of the guy's that have gone on to be really successful......

AS for his swing, too "up and down" and handsy for my taste (game is like Monty's IMOP)........but, it REPEATS for HIM........I tend to agree with Ken in that he's a "put it in the fairway"......"center of the green"......"pick your spots" kind of player (and that's WHY he's had the success he's had IMOP....."plays VERY much WITHIN HIMSELF")........as a result, his "stats" are really good........the opposite could be said for a player like Baddeley, who's stats are horrible, but, I think that's a result of his being a bit more aggressive which skews his stats a bit "negatively" relative to how he hits it.............JMOP........

Lake · January 6, 2008

[url="http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Movies/joedurant07masters.mov"]http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Mov...nt07masters.mov[/url]

Rod · January 6, 2008

Its funny, Im reading Raymond Floyds' book and he wrote "the PGA tour is full of great ball strikers who seldom win because they're mediocre putters; its also full of mediocre ball strikers who win quite often because they are tremendous putters."

glcoach · January 6, 2008

I am not seeing the handsiness in Durants swing. I see a great pivot and lag. I agree it is more "up and down". Very flat wrist at the top and at impact. Very high finish

I read somewhere that he worked with Brian Mogg for about half of last year and got worse, which is why he went back to Ron Gring, which may account for the slippage in stats last year.

Points · January 6, 2008

I really like Joe's swing. I don't see any up and downess or handsy motion in his swing at all. The shaft gets a little vertical at 3/4 but his left arm is barely above his shoulder plane at the top of the swing. Through the hitting are, very little face rotation. I really like the way he looks of the ball and drags his right foot. The guy hits the ball straight or with a slight fade. Very impressive to watch hit balls.

I have talked with several people who have played with Joe and they say his swing hasn't changed much over the years so I don't think Mac or TGM are the main reasons for his success. Certainly looking off the ball during the downswing goes very much against Mac's ideas regarding the importance of the eyes in the swing.

slicefixer · January 6, 2008

Ok, let me rephrase things then, I prefer a swing that's a bit more rotary with less lateral motion in the transition........ that results in the club workng a bit more AROUND the body and less "up"........and I prefer a swing where the upper body doesn't stay on top and then work backwards in the pivot with the resulting "down the line release" of the ARMS..........and I prefer a swing where the arms work a bit more AROUND and WITH the body than Joe's...........and your 100% correct in that his swing hasn't changed much during his career........don't know when that video was shot, but, other than looking like he might be a bit more around than his younger days, the swing looks almost exactly like I remember it........sort of a Nicklaus look when he takes it back, then a pronounced DRIVE with his lower body with his upper body working backwards a bit and which results in a more down the line release..........Joe once told me his idol and swing model growing up was Nicklaus.......

I think Joe has a FINE golf swing, it's just not one of my all time favorites.......damn sure works as he's made a LOT of money, won some tournaments, etc..........as Points as said many times, as have I, the golf swing is NOT the "deal breaker" once a player has the ballstriking skills to make it TO the tour..........hell, it's not even the make it or break it factor in "high level competitive golf"...........a great golf swing just ALLOWS a person the OPPORTUNITY to become a fine BALLSTRIKER........yes, you can have a fine golf swing and NOT be all that great a ballstriker........ya' gotta' PRACTICE every single day to develop the capabilities that a fine golf swing make THEORETICALLY POSSIBLE.......

Anyway, becoming a PLAYER is a LOT more than just a golf swing..........

Body_Visions · January 7, 2008

[quote name='Rod' post='851076' date='Jan 6 2008, 01:09 AM']Its funny, Im reading Raymond Floyds' book and he wrote "the PGA tour is full of great ball strikers who seldom win because they're mediocre putters; its also full of mediocre ball strikers who win quite often because they are tremendous putters."[/quote]

Floyd's book?

glcoach · January 8, 2008

So, what you are saying is you would like to see Durant swing more left? I agree with that and also think he would hit it further if he did that.

By no means do I think his swing is the be all end all, but he is a wonderful ball striker stat wise and I think there are elements of his swing that are really good.

As far as the TGM/Mac comment. His teacher Gring used to be an AI and studied under Mac. I never said it was a model for either one, just that elements of his swing have appear to have been influenced (mostly how he keeps his left wrist flat through the whole swing). I also like how compact his swing is.

slicefixer · January 8, 2008

[quote name='glcoach' post='854170' date='Jan 8 2008, 10:01 AM']So, what you are saying is you would like to see Durant swing more left? I agree with that and also think he would hit it further if he did that.

By no means do I think his swing is the be all end all, but he is a wonderful ball striker stat wise and I think there are elements of his swing that are really good.

As far as the TGM/Mac comment. His teacher Gring used to be an AI and studied under Mac. I never said it was a model for either one, just that elements of his swing have appear to have been influenced (mostly how he keeps his left wrist flat through the whole swing). I also like how compact his swing is.[/quote]

"Great minds think alike" GL........hehehehe.......

golferdude54 · February 25

Resurrecting this thread as he is probably the most underrated ball-striker ever and I thought people should know that. I created a custom stat long ago combining both "Driving Accuracy Percentage" and "Greens in Regulation Percentage" and Ol' Joe led the tour in that stat 9 different years, from 2000-2011. That's a record since 1980 that only Calvin Peete came close to; Peete did it 7 times.

Durant (not the basketball player) also led the tour in the "Ball Striking" stat 3 times in that span, which meant that he wasn't short off the tee either since that stat takes into account "Total Driving" which is distance off the tee and fairway %. He's the only guy since 1980 to lead the tour in the so-called "Fairway+Green" and "Ball Striking" stats in the same year multiple times (3, which was 2004, 2006, 2008). Only Bruce Lietzke, Hal Sutton, and David Duval accomplished that once and they certainly weren't no slouches in the ball striking department.

iacas · February 25

11 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

Resurrecting this thread as he is probably the most underrated ball-striker ever and I thought people should know that. I created a custom stat long ago combining both "Driving Accuracy Percentage" and "Greens in Regulation Percentage" and Ol' Joe led the tour in that stat 9 different years, from 2000-2011. That's a record since 1980 that only Calvin Peete came close to; Peete did it 7 times.

Driving accuracy feels overrated there. Longer players are often more accurate by degrees, but miss more fairways by percentage.

Boise59 · March 7

On 1/5/2008 at 10:40 AM, exgolfpro said:

Hello, all. This is my first day on this site. I have been on 4GEA for 3 years and was told about this site, over there. I was told you guys are "serious golfers...maybe too serious". That is just what i'm after on these forums. I hang out in the forums a lot, I have 2100 posts in 3 years.

Background-I am a former club pro and now work in the insurance business. 41 yrs old. +1.8 hdcp. Crappy long game, good short game. I love, love, love to discuss swing theory.

Here is my question. Joe Durant is a ball striking fool. He is always in the tops of fairways hit and greens hit. I would only think if he was an above average putter, he would win some more and we would hear his name more often. What do you guys think of his swing? Any videos available?

Great swing average putter...works with Jimmy Ballard, not too many of his guys hit it off line.

golftech · April 5

On 2/25/2024 at 2:28 PM, iacas said:

Driving accuracy feels overrated there. Longer players are often more accurate by degrees, but miss more fairways by percentage.

Good point but since it says above that Durant led “Total Driving”, “Fairway+Green” and “Ball Striking” stats (the latter 2 three years), that does significantly legitimize his leading fairway percentage stats. Makes that accomplishment even more impressive.

iacas · April 5

4 hours ago, golftech said:

Good point but since it says above that Durant led “Total Driving”, “Fairway+Green” and “Ball Striking” stats (the latter 2 three years), that does significantly legitimize his leading fairway percentage stats. Makes that accomplishment even more impressive.

Joe Durant's ranking in SG:T2G in the years we have available:

2004 - 20th
2005 - 9th
2006 - 16th
2007 - 17th
2008 - 32nd
2009 - 47th
2010 - 23rd
2011 - 41st

In other words… I'll re-iterate my claims above that "total driving" and "total ballstriking" and some counting stats like GIR and Fairways tend to be overrated, with GIR being better than fairways.

golftech · April 5

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Joe Durant's ranking in SG:T2G in the years we have available:

2004 - 20th

2005 - 9th

2006 - 16th

2007 - 17th

2008 - 32nd

2009 - 47th

2010 - 23rd

2011 - 41st

In other words… I'll re-iterate my claims above that "total driving" and "total ballstriking" and some counting stats like GIR and Fairways tend to be overrated, with GIR being better than fairways.