Ping Woods “Avg lie angle”

[Hattie Pants]

Never owned Ping woods before. Got G425 LST driver and Max 3 wood recently, love them. The driver in great with, no problem, but the 3 wood lies a flat for me. All I can find is “average lie angle of 56.5” on their adjustment chart it shows loft adjustments up and down, but all with a “neutral” lie setting. It was my understanding adjusting loft up should increase lie angle. If I go Big + would it not raise loft to 16 and lie to 58? 
 

Or what the heck do ping sleeves do. Please advise 

 

Edit to include: using the little and big + adjustments, the club sits noticeably more closed. I’m going to hit it in all of these settings to see what it does, I just don’t know what “avg lie” means on their chart. What is standard? And why include only “neutral” and “flat” adjustments in the chart. Seems inaccurate to what’s actually happening unless I just don’t understand ping sleeves 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Hattie Pants

[LCP]

Here's the lie angle for a driver. Adjust for different average lie for a different club. The "neutral" setting is 1 degree upright from the "average" spec.

Edited March 16, 2021 by LCP

[GrumpyCat]

Ping G425 Max 3-Wood
Setting	Loft	loft +/-	Lie	lie +/-
O	14.5	--	57.5	--
Big +	16.0	+1.5	56.0	-1.5
Small +	15.5	+1	56.5	-1
Small –	13.5	-1	56.5	-1
Big –	13.0	-1.5	56.0	-1.5
F	14.5	0	54.5	-3
F –	13.5	-1	55.5	-2
F +	15.5	+1	55.5	-2
"Lie Angle" (Average Lie)			56.5

 

Ping G425 & G410 drivers, woods and hybrids:

The "Lie Angle" (catalog spec) is actually an average of the five loft positions visibly printed on the adapter sleeve.  The calculation of this Average Lie (catalog spec) excludes the 3 hidden Flat positions (F, F-, F+) that are not printed on the adapter sleeve.

[Adam C]

Here.

 

[RacineBoxer]

7 hours ago, GrumpyCat said:

 

Ping G425 Max 3-Wood
Setting	Loft	loft +/-	Lie	lie +/-
O	14.5	--	57.5	--
Big +	16.0	+1.5	56.0	-1.5
Small +	15.5	+1	56.5	-1
Small –	13.5	-1	56.5	-1
Big –	13.0	-1.5	56.0	-1.5
F	14.5	0	54.5	-3
F –	13.5	-1	55.5	-2
F +	15.5	+1	55.5	-2
"Lie Angle" (Average Lie)			56.5

 

Ping G425 & G410 drivers, woods and hybrids:

The "Lie Angle" (catalog spec) is actually an average of the five loft positions visibly printed on the adapter sleeve.  The calculation of this Average Lie (catalog spec) excludes the 3 hidden Flat positions (F, F-, F+) that are not printed on the adapter sleeve.

 

So the lie is 57.5 at the stock/standard loft of 14.5 and it doesn't matter if you raise the loft to 16 or down to 13 the lie gets flatter moving either way? 

[Hattie Pants]

39 minutes ago, RacineBoxer said:

 

So the lie is 57.5 at the stock/standard loft of 14.5 and it doesn't matter if you raise the loft to 16 or down to 13 the lie gets flatter moving either way? 

This is basically the question I have, it makes no sense. Thank you for the charts, the numbers help, but it doesn’t make sense that the only thing you can do is make the club flatter, no matter what you’re doing to the loft 

[Adam C]

Watch the video above. Adjustable hosels should be thought of like a clock face. Rotating the hosel moves the shaft so it leans in different directions. Once the golfer moves the shaft back to a "neutral" perpendicular position, the adapter change presents itself. Ping adapters start in the 12 o'clock or most upright position, so any change makes the club flatter. Taylormade is the opposite. It starts in the 6 o'clock position so any change makes the lie more upright. Every brand does it their own way. The key is understanding where they choose to start from. If you really want to get into the details, here is another video covering all the basics of how they work.

 

[dlygrisse]

Also, you need to understand that when you are decreasing loft you are really just opening the face, and when you add loft you are really just closing the face.  The assumption is you will adjust the face back to square at address, so while some people may feel comfortable doing that, others wont and the club will perform differently for each player.  

 

I have messed around with lowering the loft on the G410's, with some success, but after moving through all the positions and testing, I now play my driver, 3,5,7 all at the neutral position.  LOL, I'd be better off if they just glued the damn things in.  

[Adam C]

12 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

Also, you need to understand that when you are decreasing loft you are really just opening the face, and when you add loft you are really just closing the face.  The assumption is you will adjust the face back to square at address, so while some people may feel comfortable doing that, others wont and the club will perform differently for each player.  

 

I have messed around with lowering the loft on the G410's, with some success, but after moving through all the positions and testing, I now play my driver, 3,5,7 all at the neutral position.  LOL, I'd be better off if they just glued the damn things in.  

This isn't exactly accurate. The changes from the hosel adapter are in no way directly opening or closing the club head. They are "leaning" it in different orientations. The head falls open or closed because the balance point on the sole of the club moves in relation to the contact point with the ground.

This was how these clubs were marketed in the early days of their use (Taylormade R9 etc) but at this point it has shifted away from that which makes sense.

You wouldn't say that a wedge that you bent 2 degrees down was anything other than lofted 2 degrees down. It wouldn't be referred to as open or closed faced even if the adjustment lead to the head wanting to fall open or closed.

Also the modern sole designs seem better adept at limiting the amount of face "fall" so you often see minimal change from how they sat in their neutral start position.

[dlygrisse]

25 minutes ago, Adam C said:

This isn't exactly accurate. The changes from the hosel adapter are in no way directly opening or closing the club head. They are "leaning" it in different orientations. The head falls open or closed because the balance point on the sole of the club moves in relation to the contact point with the ground.

This was how these clubs were marketed in the early days of their use (Taylormade R9 etc) but at this point it has shifted away from that which makes sense.

You wouldn't say that a wedge that you bent 2 degrees down was anything other than lofted 2 degrees down. It wouldn't be referred to as open or closed faced even if the adjustment lead to the head wanting to fall open or closed.

Also the modern sole designs seem better adept at limiting the amount of face "fall" so you often see minimal change from how they sat in their neutral start position.

Comparing woods to wedges is apples to oranges in this regard, in my opinion.  Generally bending a wedge strong or week will not cause the face to sit open or closed.  Moving the hosel on a wood will because of how the sole is shaped and the width and depth of the sole.  

[Adam C]

2 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

Comparing woods to wedges is apples to oranges in this regard, in my opinion.  Generally bending a wedge strong or week will not cause the face to sit open or closed.  Moving the hosel on a wood will because of how the sole is shaped and the width and depth of the sole.  

Okay, what if we look at it this way. Do all your irons sit perfectly square when rested on the ground? Mine don't. Some of my Mizuno's fall a little closed and some fall a little open. Would you ever just play each of these clubs as they lie or would you point the face at your target regardless of how they initially sit. Likewise would you refer to my 5 iron as being closed? I know some people like to differentiate between woods and irons but for me they are all the same in this regard.

 

This is all different from personal preference for how the club sits at address. If you don't like the closed faced that might occur based on a hosel adjustment, so be it, but that is a different issue. Face angle should be viewed as an independent measurement. Otherwise I could play an up lofted driver with my hands further forward and completely negate both the loft change and any resulting face angle change and argue no change from the hosel adjustment, but very few people would go along with that idea.

[gjunky]