Some Scramble data - Opinions ?

[nsxguy]

So a lot of us play scrambles from time to time. Some of us play them regularly.

 

I belong to a scramble group that generally plays every Saturday and I've gotten some data from the gentleman who runs the show. It is mostly older guys with maybe a third of the guys in the 40-55 year old range.

 

He keeps a record of the winning team each week. Nothing more, just the winning Captain and the others on his team.

 

So, having some time to spare, I grabbed the sheets from the last 18 months or so and put together the following statistics/data and would like opinions/observations/comments/whatever.

 

The only actual DATA is # of wins. Other numbers are approximations. Carry is driver carry. Handicap is a rough estimate. I believe only 1 guy keeps a GHIN.

 

4 players per team, captains pick their own team.

 

The first column is the record of the captains when the top 2 guys were playing the BLUE tees and the rest of the captains were playing the Whites.

 

2nd column is after the top 2 players (Alex/Bob) moved up to the White tees with everybody else.

 

                                Mixed Tees         White Tees                     
    
Total Rounds—>              32                 48

 

PLAYER (Carry/‘cap)   (Wins/Rounds Played)

 

ALEX         (260/13)        4/26  15%          15/44   34%
BOB           (260/13)        2/18  11%            9/32    28%  
CHAS        (260/10)        DNP                   5/24   21%
DAVE         (245/8)          7/18  39%          3/18   17% 
EDDIE        (235/11)         4/21  19%          7/38   18%
FRANK       (220/8)          3/24  13%         2/38     3%

 

 

The players listed are the 6 “Captains” that play regularly and are captains whenever they are there.

Breakdown - 1st 7 months or so, Alex & Bob played BLUE Tees while all others played White. Last 12 months, EVERYBODY played WHITE Tees.

 

Avg tee difference between Blue & White is ~ 40 yards.

 

BLUE TEES play at 5850 on the card
WHITE TEES play at 5130

 

Depending on conditions (of course) the top 3 guys can reach 7 of the par 4s from the tee. They can also reach all 3 par 5s in 2.

 

The other 3 captains can reach 3 of the par 4s from the tee but none of the par 5s (in 2).

 

Some details - It is a GROSS game. No handicap strokes of any kind.

 

Alex runs the game. He turned 70 12 months ago and was entitled, by “rule” to move up from Blue to White.

 

So, at that time, that would have left Bob as the ONLY player back at the Blue tees. So Alex simply proclaimed “EVERYBODY from the whites”. (Chas only joined at that time so never has played the Blues)

 

Alex, Eddie & Frank play at least 3X/mth. Bob plays about 2/3 of the time, Chas & Dave play 1/2 of the time, hence the difference in rounds played.

 

 

Thoughts ?

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by nsxguy

[jut111]

You need a hobby?  Sorry tongue firmly in cheek but you asked for thoughts. 🤷‍♂️

[mark m]

There is not enough info to offer thoughts.

 

1. How many players per team? 

2. Are the Captains for each team always the lowest handicap - or considered the best players - in the field?

3. How are the pairings done? Random draw, or by Alex? 

4. USGA considers scratch players hit it 250 total distance. Some of us think that is not accurate, but others say the USGA/R&A have corroborating evidence. Regardless, 260 carry by a 70 year old is way above average. And he is approximately a 13 handicap?

5. In scrambles, typically a high percentage of shots used by a team are hit by the low handicap player on the team. Followed by the ‘B’ player. The A player typically hits last and can learn/adjust based on what he sees. But in your group, non of these guys are low single digit or scratch. So it hard to say what is going on here in regards to team dynamics and decision making.

[nsxguy]

40 minutes ago, mark m said:

There is not enough info to offer thoughts.

 

1. How many players per team? 

2. Are the Captains for each team always the lowest handicap - or considered the best players - in the field?

3. How are the pairings done? Random draw, or by Alex? 

4. USGA considers scratch players hit it 250 total distance. Some of us think that is not accurate, but others say the USGA/R&A have corroborating evidence. Regardless, 260 carry by a 70 year old is way above average. And he is approximately a 13 handicap?

5. In scrambles, typically a high percentage of shots used by a team are hit by the low handicap player on the team. Followed by the ‘B’ player. The A player typically hits last and can learn/adjust based on what he sees. But in your group, non of these guys are low single digit or scratch. So it hard to say what is going on here in regards to team dynamics and decision making.

 

Thanks, I'll add some details to the OP.

 

1) 4 players per team

 

2) Yes, the captains are always the best players there that day.

 

3) Captains pick their players.

 

4) Yes, Alex is about a 13. His drives are somewhat inconsistent but the course is wide open in most places. His iron game and short game are not strong at all.

 

5) Well, sure. The captain is the best player and usually hits last in his group - except maybe for putting.

 

I fear I was too subtle. Or too verbose.

 

I've highlighted the main "issue".

Edited November 20, 2022 by nsxguy

[mark m]

22 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Thanks, I'll add some details to the OP.

 

1) 4 players per team

 

2) Yes, the captains are always the best players there that day.

 

3) Captains pick their players.

 

4) Yes, Alex is about a 13. His drives are somewhat inconsistent but the course is wide open in most places. His iron game and short game are not strong at all.

 

5) Well, sure. The captain is the best player and usually hits last in his group - except maybe for putting.

 

I fear I was too subtle. Or too verbose.

 

I've highlighted the main "issue".

The winning percentage is obvious. But I am still not clear on the pairings. Alex clearly knows who to pick. Where maybe the newer guy Chas doesn’t know the skills of the other players as well. Because really, he should have 8/9 wines because he is a better player and just as long. (Distance is a huge factor in scrambles.) But how is the picking done? Guys are just standing there and you pick one at a time - like on a playground? Or do you arrive with your team set? It would be much better if all had a handicap and the teams were chosen randomly by a draw - A, B, C, and D player.
 

Maybe guys choose friends over others and winning isn’t that important? It could be a lot of different factors involved.

[nsxguy]

10 minutes ago, mark m said:

The winning percentage is obvious. But I am still not clear on the pairings. Alex clearly knows who to pick. Where maybe the newer guy Chas doesn’t know the skills of the other players as well. Because really, he should have 8/9 wines because he is a better player and just as long. (Distance is a huge factor in scrambles.) But how is the picking done? Guys are just standing there and you pick one at a time - like on a playground? Or do you arrive with your team set? It would be much better if all had a handicap and the teams were chosen randomly by a draw - A, B, C, and D player.
 

Maybe guys choose friends over others and winning isn’t that important? It could be a lot of different factors involved.

 

Chas probably should be winning more but he is new to our game and the course and likely isn't familiar with all the players. He also tends to pick a friend of his who probably should be picked later. I also missed one of his wins. He's actually 5/24.

 

About 5 years ago, Alex made up all the teams himself. When he got pushback he made the captains and picked the other players at random.

 

Captains convinced him they should be able to pick their own teams. I updated the OP. Captains (still) pick their own teams. Yes, just like on the playground.