Am I thinking about “shallowing” correctly?

[mjedwards409]

9hcp here and I’ve been struggling since college with a massive steep/OTP transition after I tried to “build lag” into my golf swing. Was a 2 before that in high school and played D2 college before my swing went to sh*t junior year.
 

Been trying everything under the sun to manufacture a shallowing move for the last 15 years. Most of the time I can semi make it work by externally rotating my shoulder and trying with everything I have to lay it off. As you can imagine it my timing is off just a bit all hell breaks loose and if I stop thinking about the layoff any time I go right back to massively steep and over the top.

 

Tried Monte’s NTC a while ago and I don’t think I ever “got it” until I watched the AMG video about the right way to shallow that’s floating around. The breaking down of the right elbow movement by showing it in a standing position really made NTC then click a lot more for me mentally.

 

So I went out to the range and just wanted to try out this movement with my new understanding of why this was the right way. Below I have three videos: my “no thinking about anything” swing, the rehearsal of the right arm unfolding movement, and a slow motion swing trying to incorporate the move. I know I have some other things going on and my sequencing needs a lot of work but any feedback on whether or not I’m on the right track with how I’m thinking about this move? Thanks!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[slytown]

1 hour ago, mjedwards409 said:

9hcp here and I’ve been struggling since college with a massive steep/OTP transition after I tried to “build lag” into my golf swing. Was a 2 before that in high school and played D2 college before my swing went to sh*t junior year.
 

Been trying everything under the sun to manufacture a shallowing move for the last 15 years. Most of the time I can semi make it work by externally rotating my shoulder and trying with everything I have to lay it off. As you can imagine it my timing is off just a bit all hell breaks loose and if I stop thinking about the layoff any time I go right back to massively steep and over the top.

 

Tried Monte’s NTC a while ago and I don’t think I ever “got it” until I watched the AMG video about the right way to shallow that’s floating around. The breaking down of the right elbow movement by showing it in a standing position really made NTC then click a lot more for me mentally.

 

So I went out to the range and just wanted to try out this movement with my new understanding of why this was the right way. Below I have three videos: my “no thinking about anything” swing, the rehearsal of the right arm unfolding movement, and a slow motion swing trying to incorporate the move. I know I have some other things going on and my sequencing needs a lot of work but any feedback on whether or not I’m on the right track with how I’m thinking about this move? Thanks!!

 

 

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It looks much better. Are you actively trying to bow the wrist in the downswing? I am of the ilk that think bowing should be a natural result of the strong grip.

 

It does come a little under plane. I would work on adding more rotation near the bottom of the swing. It looks like you are still trying to square the face with rolling over the hands. Remember, a proper release is an unfolding of the arms, not rolling the hands over. If you take out the rolling, you can turn more through the shot.

Edited April 6, 2023 by slytown

[Valtiel]

Agreed with @slytown in that the initial changes are much better, albeit slightly overdone and lacking in some of the pivot/lower body stuff that will be necessary to "pay it off" correctly.



The main problem with your "think about nothing" swing is the common "club/arms overrunning, don't know where the club is supposed to stop" issue where everything just goes too far. The last second dive of the clubhead across the line towards your head sets this up:



Which is the prototypical over the top/steep transition move. Basically everything moving directly towards the ball.

Now with your adjustments:



You've gotten the club moving in a much better direction here, basically the opposite of what you were doing before which is good. The thing to consider here though is that the goal is NOT to manipulate the club into a "shallow" position, but rather to keep the club from getting into such a position that it needs to be manipulated out of.

Both what you were doing wrong initially and what you've started to correct are covered in Eric Cogorno's video here, and he emphasizes the broader (and IMO correct) goal of simply keeping the club from getting too far out of bounds in the first place so that the "shallowing" is less of some manufactured move and more of a natural reaction to where you put the club in the backswing. All of this will feel like you're shortening your overall backswing which is good because it was much too long in the first video and arguably still a bit too long in the second.

The other important element as it relates to sequencing and rotation as the necessary element to pair with what you're working on is covered in Monte's video below as you're doing the thing he is pointing out which is loading all the way into your trail leg to the top of the backswing and trying to get back to your front in transition, which is a few steps too late.
 

 

[mjedwards409]

Thanks to you both! Agreed this is definitely “overdone” as j was just practicing the movement at 50% speed. 

 

@Valtiel really appreciate the video breakdown. Agreed on your point about getting across the line at the top making it worse, as that’s also one of the ways my bad habits originated after a teacher I was seeing had my setting up with my shoulders pretty significantly closed to the target line. I will say however that even when I take 3/4 swings now and don’t get across the line I will still transition into a very steep move if I’m not consciously guiding it elsewhere.

 

Also, agreed 100% on the sequencing and getting my weight to my left side sooner. That came from years of trying to consciously manipulate my first move down so I basically pause at the top of my backswing to “think”. (Which I know is not good) I’m going to really start doing A LOT of slow motion stuff with this new feel and really focus on incorporating a better weight shift at the right time. 
 

Thanks again!

 

 

[slytown]

3 hours ago, mjedwards409 said:

Thanks to you both! Agreed this is definitely “overdone” as j was just practicing the movement at 50% speed. 

 

@Valtiel really appreciate the video breakdown. Agreed on your point about getting across the line at the top making it worse, as that’s also one of the ways my bad habits originated after a teacher I was seeing had my setting up with my shoulders pretty significantly closed to the target line. I will say however that even when I take 3/4 swings now and don’t get across the line I will still transition into a very steep move if I’m not consciously guiding it elsewhere.

 

Also, agreed 100% on the sequencing and getting my weight to my left side sooner. That came from years of trying to consciously manipulate my first move down so I basically pause at the top of my backswing to “think”. (Which I know is not good) I’m going to really start doing A LOT of slow motion stuff with this new feel and really focus on incorporating a better weight shift at the right time. 
 

Thanks again!

 

 

 

I would have to see how closed u were with the coach. He was probably just exaggerating for you.

 

Your backswing looks good. Just work on proper sequence. Pressure shift/lateral shift, then arms down with back to target, and finally turn through. I wouldnt advise actively shallowing. Shallowing comes from other things working well. Ive tried actively showing and it doesnt work for me.

Edited April 8, 2023 by slytown