68 Ballerina - Hands are way behind me

[Habitual Flipper]

I've been doing some speed training in the back yard and recorded a few swings to do a check up on things.

 

I noticed that I can force myself to get really open and into a tour looking impact position (hips way open, right elbow bent, shoulders pretty open) vs my stock position of hips slightly open, shoulders square, both arms straight.

 

The kicker is I'm maxing out at 122 mph with my stock swing and maxing out at 106 with the really nice looking swing. Begs the question, if I should start building up off the more photogenic swing or stick with the ugly duckling that works and can be fast. 

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Habitual Flipper

[naj959]

2 handicap that can max out at 122mph but chasing a look that is slower? I don't get it. Unless you have some glaring issues that's affecting consistency, I think you know the path you should be on. 

[Habitual Flipper]

Just now, naj959 said:

2 handicap that can max out at 122mph but chasing a look that is slower? I don't get it. Unless you have some glaring issues that's affecting consistency, I think you know the path you should be on. 

 

haha check out my username, I'm a career flipper!

 

I've been able to string together a good handicap but I'm the notorious hold/cold player, based solely on my timing for the day.  My thinking was that my flip is giving me potentially speed but hurting direction and was curious if building up off a less flippy, more rotational swing might help me get to the next level. 

[naj959]

2 hours ago, Habitual Flipper said:

 

haha check out my username, I'm a career flipper!

 

I've been able to string together a good handicap but I'm the notorious hold/cold player, based solely on my timing for the day.  My thinking was that my flip is giving me potentially speed but hurting direction and was curious if building up off a less flippy, more rotational swing might help me get to the next level. 

In that case yeah get with a competent set of eyes and get after it🤙

[MonteScheinblum]

Your sequencing is off and getting the hips more open on purpose just makes it worse.

 

Getting everything firing at the right time is where club speed comes from,  not faster and more open hips.

 

Flipping is almost always from arms being late as part of the equation.

[Habitual Flipper]

On 5/17/2023 at 4:08 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

Your sequencing is off and getting the hips more open on purpose just makes it worse.

 

Getting everything firing at the right time is where club speed comes from,  not faster and more open hips.

 

Flipping is almost always from arms being late as part of the equation.

I've been thinking about this for a couple days and it seems you are spot on. Here is a face on still photo of P6. My hands are way behind my trail leg, so I'm thinking I have to flip or I'll miss the ball. 

 

Do you think it would be wise to work on staying more connected in the backswing/transition to get those hands more in front of my chest? 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Habitual Flipper

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, Habitual Flipper said:

I've been thinking about this for a couple days and it seems you are spot on. Here is a face on still photo of P6. My hands are way behind my trail leg, so I'm thinking I have to flip or I'll miss the ball. 

 

Do you think it would be wise to work on staying more connected in the backswing/transition to get those hands more in front of my chest? 

 

 

 

Transition is the key time.  The lower body leads automatically.  Doing it actively and/or the wrong way, creates the poor sequencing.

 

In that still, where your hips are, you should be at impact.

Edited May 25, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[Habitual Flipper]

22 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Transition is the key time.  The lower body leads automatically.  Doing it actively and/or the wrong way, creates the poor sequencing.

 

In that still, where your hips are, you should be at impact.

 

Thanks Monte - Would you say I need more cast B to get the hands sequencing better? 

[MonteScheinblum]

3 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

 

Thanks Monte - Would you say I need more cast B to get the hands sequencing better? 

Maybe, but your arms/hands need to accelerate earlier.  Elite golfers have a .01 second gap between thorax and lead arm and yours is likely triple or quadruple that. 

[RoyalTroon]

3 hours ago, Habitual Flipper said:

I've been thinking about this for a couple days and it seems you are spot on.

 

It's not seems, it's precisely spot on.

 

2 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Maybe, but your arms/hands need to accelerate earlier.

 

No doubt here either, those set hands should be in front of, or even better forward of the trail thigh,  at club delivery start.  You're so far behind it's like the milkman being 3 days late for delivery.

[Habitual Flipper]

15 minutes ago, BALLYBUNION said:

 

It's not seems, it's precisely spot on.

 

 

Thanks for that correction...

[ALIF]

Monte has affectionately called an impact position such as yours the ballerina 68 move. It’s a common problem many of us including myself have had or have still. I wish you well on your journey to improvement!

[Habitual Flipper]

5 hours ago, ALIF said:

Monte has affectionately called an impact position such as yours the ballerina 68 move. It’s a common problem many of us including myself have had or have still. I wish you well on your journey to improvement!

 

Any tips for getting the arms back in front?

 

It's something that I've ignored and no one that I've taken lessons with have ever pointed out. 

 

 

Edit: Just found monte's article on the 68 ballerina move, and it describes my golfing journey to a tee. Most notably:

 

THE CAUSE

Most beginners start out swinging the club in a classic over-the-top pattern. The arms lead out, they swing across it, and the predictable disasters associated with that move make the game very difficult. So they get a lesson. And they’re told that to fix their over-the-top pattern, they need to:

 

1. lead with the lower body

2. let the arms be passive and stay behind.

3. hold the lag

4. swing to right field

Edited May 27, 2023 by Habitual Flipper

[GoGoErky]

14 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

Any tips for getting the arms back in front?

Monte’s zipper drill.

 

But a good pressure shift is needed too

[Habitual Flipper]

Doing some back yard work, looks like a little improvement (better P6 position I think and more shaft lean at impact):

 

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Habitual Flipper

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Habitual Flipper said:

Any tips for getting the arms back in front?

 

Yeah. Don't get them behind you to begin with.

 

And then… expand the right elbow sooner.

[MK7Golf21]

23 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

Doing some back yard work, looks like a little improvement (better P6 position I think and more shaft lean at impact):

 

 

 

careful with the lead knee action young lad, seems a little excessive to me. 

[Habitual Flipper]

6 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

careful with the lead knee action young lad, seems a little excessive to me. 

Good call, I was trying a version of Monte's drop the bucket drill but might leave that alone for now. I was getting similar results just by having the intention of getting my hands down and in front quicker from the top. 

[Habitual Flipper]

30 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Yeah. Don't get them behind you to begin with.

 

And then… expand the right elbow sooner.

Thanks Erik - Something like this?

 

 

[Liveonce]

I have the same issue as you. However, when I try to speed my upper body up and basically keep trail foot down longer it looks a little better, however the club is still released early. Have found a fix yet been trying for a year, multiple instructors etc. I’m out of ideas so interested to see here 

[Kenjr1969]

This is a topic near and dear to my heart. I too have a huge issue getting my hands to far behind my right thigh at P6. I work on the issue constantly probably to the detriment on my swing as a whole as I go down the proverbial rabbit hole and ignore recording my swing from dtl. It is has become an obsession with me. Working on trying to get the hands moving sooner with a little success.

[Shilgy]

On 5/27/2023 at 1:04 PM, iacas said:

 

Yeah. Don't get them behind you to begin with.

 

And then… expand the right elbow sooner.

What doe “expand” the elbow mean? Straighten?

[GoGoErky]

16 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

What doe “expand” the elbow mean? Straighten?

Unfold it

[iacas]

47 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

What doe “expand” the elbow mean? Straighten?

 

Yep:

 

30 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Unfold it

 

I try not to say the word "straighten." Extend, expand, widen… unfold, etc.

[pappaf2]

15 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Yep:

 

 

I try not to say the word "straighten." Extend, expand, widen… unfold, etc.

Like this?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CnVj8qeu_-8/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

[iacas]

27 minutes ago, pappaf2 said:

Like this?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CnVj8qeu_-8/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

 

Basically. Some players have to feel like they do this more actively and faster than others.

[Habitual Flipper]

On 5/27/2023 at 2:04 PM, iacas said:

 

Yeah. Don't get them behind you to begin with.

 

And then… expand the right elbow sooner.

 

Circling back after a lot of work here. I've been having some good success with this feeling, specifically unfolding the trail arm. It seems to be the ballerina killer!