Is 36.0 Putts Per Round Holding Me Back?

[Jsteve15]

1 hour ago, golfman1023 said:

Think what you want, the data disagrees. Better players clobber mid-handicaps from 100-200 yards

I think we actually agree here. You specifically referenced hitting 4 iron so I was talking 200+ and you just don't hit that shot often enough for it to be the focus of a 17 hcp. That 100-150 (or 125-175) range is likely that cross over between largest disparity of talent and most opportunities.

[Brayden Snow]

Yeah maybe I just need to vent that I 3 putted 4 holes in a row 😂

[jpboi9837]

19 minutes ago, Jsteve15 said:

Bit of a different skill level than the original poster 😅

yes definitely different skill level 😂😂

[jpboi9837]

23 minutes ago, Jsteve15 said:

Didn't realize you were talking about hitting 4 greens in the 9 holes! That makes me completely rethink your round. If you hit 8 greens in a round then you can certainly be a single digit, but over those 9 holes you didn't get up and down once! Unless you're missing a bunch of shorties you're likely asking too much from your putter. 

No, you were right initially! Hit more greens than usual in that 9 hole round.

 

my fault for the confusion

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by jpboi9837

[naval2006]

I can's figure out how, with any hdc over 15, missing greens will put pressure on a golfer when most players at these levels worry about OB's, water, sand, trees, the backswing, the left arm, firing the hips and so on and so forth.  Getting on the green in three clean shots on a par four and making an easy bogey is  a fair starting point at these stages of golf.  A high single digit on an average day may hit 4/5 greens and shoot in the low 80s.

[jpboi9837]

Across 11 rounds

[larrybud]

39 minutes ago, Jsteve15 said:

Didn't realize you were talking about hitting 4 greens in the 9 holes! That makes me completely rethink your round. If you hit 8 greens in a round then you can certainly be a single digit, but over those 9 holes you didn't get up and down once! Unless you're missing a bunch of shorties you're likely asking too much from your putter. 

 

OP: Are you averaging 4 GIRS for 9 holes, or for 18 holes?

 

[jpboi9837]

15 minutes ago, larrybud said:

 

OP: Are you averaging 4 GIRS for 9 holes, or for 18 holes?

 

4 for 18! Or 22% across all rounds

[Shane22]

Club up..... swing 80%

[larrybud]

1 minute ago, jpboi9837 said:

4 for 18! Or 22% across all rounds

 

Ok, that's what I thought.  I would start with low hanging fruit:

 

Are your first chips getting on the green, or are you having to hit 2 chips on a hole frequently? 

How often are you 3 putting inside 20 feet?

 

what is 18% missed (other)? 

[larrybud]

6 minutes ago, Shane22 said:

Club up..... swing 80%

nobody swings at 80%. That means that someone with 100mph SS could be swinging 120 mph and hitting it 60 yards father.

 

[jpboi9837]

4 minutes ago, larrybud said:

 

Ok, that's what I thought.  I would start with low hanging fruit:

 

Are your first chips getting on the green, or are you having to hit 2 chips on a hole frequently? 

How often are you 3 putting inside 20 feet?

 

what is 18% missed (other)? 

On average, i would estimate 3 double-chips per 18 and 3 three-putts per 18 😭

 

the 18% missed other are when I have no shot to the green in regulation (recovery, penalties, etc)

Edited July 28, 2023 by jpboi9837

[larrybud]

double chips are essentially equivalent to a penalty stroke

[jpboi9837]

4 minutes ago, cammyfan99 said:

I always think backwards when I am deciding what to work on.  For example If you're not getting up and down enough you need to look at your putts.  If you're missing a lot of 5 footers your chipping probably isn't the problem.

 

For you I would keep track of how close you're hitting your chip shots to determine if you need to work on your chipping or your putting to help get more up and downs.

 

The one thing you definitely need to do is get rid of three putts.  Apply the same concept to figure out if its your short putts or your lag putting and work on that.  It doesn't take much talent to get rid of three putts so that's an easy three shots off your index with a little work.

Super helpful — thanks

[jpboi9837]

Just now, larrybud said:

double chips are essentially equivalent to a penalty stroke

yeah it’s brutal

[Shane22]

25 minutes ago, larrybud said:

nobody swings at 80%. That means that someone with 100mph SS could be swinging 120 mph and hitting it 60 yards father.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/els_gd0608 

 

Not clubbing up a driver.... 37% short 20% left or right on approach shots, controlled swing and play for middle of green.

[DataGolfer]

1 hour ago, Jsteve15 said:

I think we actually agree here. You specifically referenced hitting 4 iron so I was talking 200+ and you just don't hit that shot often enough for it to be the focus of a 17 hcp. That 100-150 (or 125-175) range is likely that cross over between largest disparity of talent and most opportunities.

I didn't mean literally.

 

I meant.. the difference between a 0 and a 20 hitting a 4 iron is a much wider results gap than a 0 and a 20 hitting 15 foot putts, in terms of SG.

 

the talent gap widens the farther from the hole.

Edited July 28, 2023 by golfman1023

[Ironzol24]

Agreed with most of the thread that your chipping is putting a lot of pressure on the flat stick.

Camp out at the practice green for a bit, varied lies, varied distances etc. Hit shots different ways but just try and get up and down as a game. Par is 2 strokes, bogey for a chip and putt. Play 18 shots all around the green and see how you do. 

[jpboi9837]

38 minutes ago, Ironzol24 said:

Agreed with most of the thread that your chipping is putting a lot of pressure on the flat stick.

Camp out at the practice green for a bit, varied lies, varied distances etc. Hit shots different ways but just try and get up and down as a game. Par is 2 strokes, bogey for a chip and putt. Play 18 shots all around the green and see how you do. 

 

I actually really enjoy that kind of practice. I'm going to focus on chipping for sure.

 

Finding a short game practice area is even harder than finding a driving range though -- wish it were easier, because I would be happy to do that every day tbh

[Ironzol24]

31 minutes ago, jpboi9837 said:

 

I actually really enjoy that kind of practice. I'm going to focus on chipping for sure.

 

Finding a short game practice area is even harder than finding a driving range though -- wish it were easier, because I would be happy to do that every day tbh

obviously this is location dependent for having courses near you but every public course i've ever visited that has a practice chipping and putting green has no qualms with people practicing there. Can go buy a drink just to support if you feel like 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Ironzol24

[larrybud]

3 hours ago, Shane22 said:

 

Not clubbing up a driver.... 37% short 20% left or right on approach shots, controlled swing and play for middle of green.

Pros always have a "feel" which isn't real. Ernie nor any other player leaves 20% in the tank, 7 iron or driver. If you actually could swing at 80% speed, you'd hit the ball all over the planet, your timing would be completely off.

Edited July 28, 2023 by larrybud

[Mobert19]

Two 3 putts in 9 holes is far too many. But we don’t know why you 3 putted. Was it poor putting? Or leaving your approach 80 feet from hole? Or blasting a chip too far?

 

Also, the 23% GIR you posted before is low saying your approach needs work, but there’s hope there. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Mobert19

[Patnachts]

I think something to initially note as well is that your putting is likely much worse than you realize. Many high handicappers will think their putting is ok, but that is because their misses are so varied that they are missing a lot of greens. Therefore, their first putts are a lot closer as they are chipping up towards the hole. As you start to hit more GIRS, you will probably start to notice a lot longer putts than you are accustomed to, which will even further stress the flat stick.

Also looking at the misses with your irons, is the miss short because of contact? or are you playing for the "best shot I can hit"? and just consistently coming up short?

[Shankapotimous]

OP, I am kind of in the same spot as you. One thing I didn't see you show us is the 1st putt distance? 

 

You need to get rid of those 3 putts and be able to generate some 1 putts in your round. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Shankapotimous

[jpboi9837]

8 minutes ago, Shankapotimous said:

OP, I am kind of in the same spot as you. One thing I didn't see you show us is the 1st putt distance? 

 

You need to get rid of those 3 putts and be able to generate some 1 putts in your round. 

glad to know I’m not alone lol

 

And yeah, I’d show that if I knew it… is there a good way to track putt distance?

[betarhoalphadelta]

On 7/28/2023 at 10:05 AM, jpboi9837 said:

 

I actually really enjoy that kind of practice. I'm going to focus on chipping for sure.

 

Finding a short game practice area is even harder than finding a driving range though -- wish it were easier, because I would be happy to do that every day tbh

 

Try a game when you're practicing putting. It's called 30 for 30. 

 

• Drop a ball 30 feet from the intended hole. Read the putt (and take it seriously) and stroke it.
• If you make the putt, award yourself 3 points.
• If you miss the putt long, but two-putt, award yourself 2 points. 
• If you miss the putt short, but two-putt, award yourself 1 point.
• If you three-putt, you have to score that as negative 3 points. 
• That's one "round".
• Proceed to a different hole (or the same hole from a different angle) so you have to vary the first read for line and distance. 

The goal is to get to 30 points before you've reached 30 rounds. 

 

On 7/28/2023 at 10:36 AM, Ironzol24 said:

obviously this is location dependent for having courses near you but every public course i've ever visited that has a practice chipping and putting green has no qualms with people practicing there. Can go buy a drink just to support if you feel like 

 

Yeah, I don't know where OP lives, but here in Southern California, finding actual short game practice areas (a chipping green, sand traps, etc) is hard. Putting green? Sure. But they don't allow chipping. 

[Ironzol24]

14 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Yeah, I don't know where OP lives, but here in Southern California, finding actual short game practice areas (a chipping green, sand traps, etc) is hard. Putting green? Sure. But they don't allow chipping. 

Damn that's a pain, NC here

[Shankapotimous]

19 hours ago, jpboi9837 said:

glad to know I’m not alone lol

 

And yeah, I’d show that if I knew it… is there a good way to track putt distance?

 

I use Grint app that allows me to record 1st putt distance. Once you record them more and more, it will show you nice stats. 

[jpboi9837]

1 minute ago, Shankapotimous said:

 

I use Grint app that allows me to record 1st putt distance. Once you record them more and more, it will show you nice stats. 

Nice. How do you measure? Just with approximation using footsteps?

[bortass]

9 minutes ago, jpboi9837 said:

Nice. How do you measure? Just with approximation using footsteps?

Yup, close is good enough.  A bonus is it'll help your putting IME. You'll start to link a distance to your putting stroke and make the connection between the distance you see and the speed you hit the putt.

 

I'll also add you can't look at numbers in a vacuum. All putts are not created equal. A two putt from 3 feet is bad, from 10 feet okay, from 65 feet great. A three putt from 65 feet is not a surprise either. pacing things off will help give you some better context.