Old Cup In Line of Putt

[JPLosman7]

Good evening would like some thoughts on if a situation I encountered today would be eligible for free relief.

 

Par 3 8th hole, 190 yards.  Chunked my 5 iron into the front bunker, ok out considering lie to 25 feet. Up then down putt - gave it a run and settled 3.5 feet beyond the hole. 
 

There was an old cup plug in between my ball and the hole. This wasn’t the greenskeepers finest work…. It was clearly below the surface of the green by 1/3 of a centimeter - enough so that it was obvious that it was going to effect the path of the ball. Unclear of the rule and annoyed at hitting a terrible tee ball to put me in this position just for bogey - I decide to hit it firm and hope for a good bounce. Hit it firm and it was like the ball ran into a curb - jumped straight up and off line. Carded the double. All 3 playing partners saw it and gave sympathetic groans.

 

Would I have been entitled to free relief under ground under repair?

 

Common sense to me says yes. The hole was repaired faultly, there was no reasonable way for me to smooth it out or repair it, and it was clear to a reasonable person that the depression was going to effect the path of the ball.

 

Rules of golf say? 
 

Seems clear to me that I am entitled to repair the ground. If the old cup was above ground there seems to be a reasonable chance that i can tamp the ground level.  In my situation - the old cup being below the ground all the way around there was no reasonable way for me to repair without damaging the green.

Found this which seems to apply to my situation “Now what if the plug has sunk below the surface of the hole? You clearly can’t repair it then, so do you have to put up with it?

A clarification to Rule 13.1c (2) in the 2023 Rules of Golf says that you can ask the committee to repair the damage. If they’re unable to do that, and your ball is on the green, committees can then consider “providing relief to the player under Rule 16.1 by defining the damaged area as ground under repair”.” https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/rules/rules-of-golf-old-hole-plug/

 

I’m confident that if was playing in an event with officials I’d have a strong chance at getting relief.  Being that I was playing in a casual round with no officials I’m curious others opinion on the situation.

 

I prefer being conservative in these situations and not taking relief. I put myself in a bad spot, I don’t feel badly for myself. That being said - I could easily sleep at night taking free relief from the old cup. It was poorly replaced by a grounds crew member and was obviously going to have an effect on my play.  Interesting situation! Another reason I love golf!

Edited August 14, 2023 by JPLosman7

[st1800e]

Sounds like your ball wasn't  IN the old hole plug.  If it’s GUR, then the question becomes does one have to putt through GUR on the putting green?  IIRC, the answer in No.  

 

If that’s  the case your “committee of 4” could have given you relief.  😉
 

You certainly could have also attempted a repair with a ball mark tool to raise the edges and reduced the chances of the bounce.  

 

 

[DaveLeeNC]

A previous discussion. 

 

 

 

[ae1985]

Are you THE JP Losman or a Bills fan from long time ago?

[Shilgy]

Hmm, I’m positive the old rules allowed you to move your ball if an unrepairable former hole position was on your line.  Interesting that option is lo longer mentioned.

[Newby]

8 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Hmm, I’m positive the old rules allowed you to move your ball if an unrepairable former hole position was on your line.  Interesting that option is lo longer mentioned.

I don't know how far back you are thinking but the rule did not allow that in 2014.

And Tufts' book from 1960 implies the rule was the same then.

[Shilgy]

5 hours ago, Newby said:

I don't know how far back you are thinking but the rule did not allow that in 2014.

And Tufts' book from 1960 implies the rule was the same then.

Apparently I stand corrected.  Thank you.  

[KevCarter]

@Shilgy My memory isn't what it used to be, but I recall "old hole plugs" as being one of the things you were allowed to repair on the green. I'll bet that is what you were recalling as well...

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, KevCarter said:

@Shilgy My memory isn't what it used to be, but I recall "old hole plugs" as being one of the things you were allowed to repair on the green. I'll bet that is what you were recalling as well...

Yes…and no.  Old hole plugs are still repairable under rule 13.1.c(2) but I was referring to one you could not satisfactorily repair.  One that is either above or below the surface of the green to the point where, as in the OP of this thread, you could not repair it properly.